Scared my itr is a vt-r....

[nickasse]

Ai,
recently bought dc2r....was looking at the engine code (did a vin check on my own car) and it's b18c2 (which is vti-r)....but the head says pr3-3 on it....
i mean, i think it's an integra type r...i know the chasis is an integra type r....i'm just worried about the engine. Vtec kicks in in one go (i heard vti-r is two stages) and yeh...can anyone help me out?
anyone with a dc2r got a b18c2 engine code?
thanks

[hisoka]

your car isnt yellow by anychance is it loL~

[nickasse]

no white

[japcollector]

put some pics up mate

[nickasse]

at work man. and don't have a camera on me. i can tell you anything you want to know...and like i said, chasis is integra type r, it's just the engine block i'm worried about.

[nickasse]

oh and the intake manifold is definately an integra type r intake manifold, not that duel stage one....if that helps...
if anyone has a dc2r with an engine code that begins with B18C2 i would love to hear from them...to check type in google "vic roads vehicle check" and follow the links (that's assuming you're in vic...i don't think you can do this in nsw)

[90LAN]

maybe the motor blew/rebuilt and was replaced with a b18c block

[hotdc2]

b18c2 is a vti-r engine.

If that is the engine code that comes up when you run a VIN check then unfortunately you car is a ITR replica. Meaning it looks the same as an ITR however it is not an original.
If you checked the VIN with your state roads authority, it would return an engine code of b18c7 which is the ITR motor.

[nickasse]

lol how much of it is vti-r...because the whole chasis is integra type r (i'm 100%), the intake manifold is integra type r...the head is integra type r (pr3-3 apparently only came on the integra type r)....so what's from the vti-r?

[hotdc2]

the block. but how can you be sure your chassis is an ITR chassis if Vic Roads returns you with an engine code of b18c2?

The only possible solution i can think of is that maybe the previous owner did damage to the block, and couldn't afford an entire new engine so they bought a b18c2 block, and changed the details with Vic Roads

[hotdc2]

is there a make number arouund the parking brake? Should be a shiny silver badge i believe

[jords]

Is it an aussie front or JDM?

[nickasse]

Yeh it's got the make number, its got the carbon fibre bits, recaro seats front and back...etc...etc...

[hotdc2]

even if it is a vti-r i'd be pretty happy with it anyway. it would have taken alot of work to get it looking like an ITR and a lot more money than actually buying one so i wouldn't be too pissed off. Like Lan said, previous owner probably just replaced the block. It's the same displacement so it does almost, if not the same thing anyway. It's the head that is the important part of the ITR engine, and by the sounds of it you have a pr3 head anyway

[japcollector]

Hey hotdc2 do you know if you need an engineer certificate if the block was change regarding NSW rules and regulation. If so thats something the OP might need to think about

[nickasse]

just wanted to thank everyone for your help. Atm it's an integra type r with a vti-r block and itr head in it lol. Is there any way i can make sure the chasis is integra type r? i'm pretty sure it is, because it's got all those itr parts...

anyway thanks guys

oh and i'll start a little poll: on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the highest, how badly f'd over did i get lol?

[VTec1987]

if it doesnt have a factory sunroof then its a itr shell

[Blulude98]

5 / 10

[nickasse]

oh and also, is there anyway i can see whether the gearbox is an itr gearbox without pulling it out or anything?

[jords]

check for lsd box, it will be marked

[nickasse]

s80...so itr...

[cymax]

if it doesnt have a factory sunroof then its a itr shell

There are some ITR that comes with factory sunroof. It's the special edition kind. Not a lot on the street though.

[WATAJK]

its probably just the block mate..
But then again as one of the other boys said, no-one would really be able to tell..
When VTEC Engages, if it doesn't sound like the VTI-R (I wouldn't know as i haven't owned one so what i could say sounds weird) like the 2 sound effect of when Vtec kicks in.

Im sure you've got nothing to worry about but then again mate your car is basically as close as it gets to a ITR.
Worse comes to worse just change the engine and ur done lol.

[thegame-01]

just wanted to thank everyone for your help. Atm it's an integra type r with a vti-r block and itr head in it lol. Is there any way i can make sure the chasis is integra type r? i'm pretty sure it is, because it's got all those itr parts...

anyway thanks guys

oh and i'll start a little poll: on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the highest, how badly f'd over did i get lol?

call up honda and give them the vin number and ask if its a type r or not. this method works the best

gl

[cymax]

There's one easy way to check if it's an ITR chassis. Check if there's a lower tie bar below your subframe. http://www.meilinkvision.com/sale/tiebar.jpg

AFAIK, the oem rear lower tie bar for DC2R will not be able to fit into VTi-R because there's no bracket or holes to hold onto the subframe.

Finally, you might want to see if it's a 5 lug

[nickasse]

yeh i've got one of them ^
and yes, it's 5 lug

thanks for the help guys, at least now i know what i'm driving lol
"a real driver knows exactly what's in his car" rofl especially what f***** engine it's got.

[string]

S80 isn't enough to identify the box as being ITR. Does it have "LSD" stamped on it?

[WATAJK]

yeh i've got one of them ^
and yes, it's 5 lug

thanks for the help guys, at least now i know what i'm driving lol
"a real driver knows exactly what's in his car" rofl especially what f***** engine it's got.

haha nice line
Well were glad u got n answa mate, enjoy the fun of having a honda responsibly of course :)
Case closed?

Only thing i can think of is that the ENTIRE chasis was changed to a Type R chasis but who the hell would go to all that trouble.. Sigh

[Giraffe]

it would easier to show pics, if theres no pics it would be hard to tell.

[hotdc2]

Hey hotdc2 do you know if you need an engineer certificate if the block was change regarding NSW rules and regulation. If so thats something the OP might need to think about

You do not need an engineers cert. providing you do not increase engine capacity by more than 10% (in regards to displacement). In this instance, if the OP were in NSW he would be fine so long as the change has been registered with the respective authorities (which it has). I cannot speak in regards to Victoria, though I would imagine it would be along the same line of thought.


just wanted to thank everyone for your help. Atm it's an integra type r with a vti-r block and itr head in it lol. Is there any way i can make sure the chasis is integra type r? i'm pretty sure it is, because it's got all those itr parts...



Not a problem, it's what we're here for :p In regards to checking, as string mentioned, your best bet is to call up Honda and ask them to tell you if it isn't or not. No matter what people say can and can't be done, there will always be others who will go out and do it simply for the sake of doing it. Honda drivers are a brilliant example of this. So in regards to all the little ITR bits and pieces you would assume guarantees that it is genuine.. just be a little bit cautious and ring up someone who can tell you for sure!


i'll start a little poll: on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the highest, how badly f'd over did i get lol?

I'd say so long as it was just the block that has been changed, you've done alright. Yeah, you were screwed over a little bit but it could have been much, MUCH worse. I'd give it a 3/10 providing it's an original ITR chassis with everything except the block.


if it doesnt have a factory sunroof then its a itr shell

This isn't entirely true. I think someone else mentioned this earlier in the thread. Aftermarket sunroofs are always an option as well so it isn't a guarantee.


oh and also, is there anyway i can see whether the gearbox is an itr gearbox without pulling it out or anything?

If you can't locate the LSD stamp another easy way to find out would be to find a local dealer with a VTi-R for sale and go and test drive it. You will most definately feel the difference!

[MRK20CRX]

where abouts did u buy the car from man, i remember these was a vti-r or gsi that was a type r replica, looked just like a dc2r, couldn't tell the difference, was white too

[nickasse]

^ yeh that one was for sale when i bought mine, but i didn't buy that one lol.

[simonnowis]

maybe everything else is a type R, except for the bottom block hence the b18c2 stamped on it.

[GSi_PSi]

i would be pretty pissed if its B18C2 block. cause if the block is standard, the comp ratio is around 10:1 or so and with a PR3 head compression is even lower compared to P72 head. The B18C7 block has greater comp ratio, lightweight balanced Crankshaft, Different pistons 11+ comp, better Oil/water pumps....

[morgs202]

I thought everythng in itr motor was balanced and blueprinted by hand too?

[SHI-FTY]

i would be pretty pissed if its B18C2 block. cause if the block is standard, the comp ratio is around 10:1 or so and with a PR3 head compression is even lower compared to P72 head. The B18C7 block has greater comp ratio, lightweight balanced Crankshaft, Different pistons 11+ comp, better Oil/water pumps....
AGREED^^
wud like to no the dyno figures this wud put out with the c2 block

this car sounds like it has been thru a quick jew fix from b4 but dw mate charma is a bitch, prev owner will taste it worse! :zip:'unless u let him taste it'

btw wud be interested to no how much did u pik d car up 4?

[GSi_PSi]

lmaoo ^ quick jew fix
I rekon you should of checked all this wen buying the car. If youd done a revs check it would tell you everything about it, including written off vehicle history, engine number change, finance etc
You should talk with the old owner and see if he has upgraded the bottom end to ITR spec

[F.O.B Squad]

That would suck if you'd have a b18c2 bottom block especially if you paid for a price of an ITR.
Dodgy trading if it wasn't mentioned when purchased.

[SHI-FTY]

lmaoo ^ quick jew fix
I rekon you should of checked all this wen buying the car. If youd done a revs check it would tell you everything about it, including written off vehicle history, engine number change, finance etc




:thumbsup: very very true this should of been your rule number1 for buyin cars!!! i even buy the revs certificate for only i think like 15bux or so n its for the 24hour period ur protected its like a personal insurance for buyin cars but thats me

[hotdc2]

i don't think Revs opperate in Victoria. Isn't it just a NSW thing?

[GSi_PSi]

dunooo bout SHI-FTY you dont even have to pay for a revs check? i just go on here and
input the details
https://online.revs.nsw.gov.au/revs/public.htm

[hotdc2]

if you pay for the certificate you can use it as evidence should a company try to repossess the car.

[nickasse]

lol, did the vehicle check n everything - was on the look out for b18c1...when i saw c2 thought ah k it's all good. the thing revs to the right limit, goes like i thought it would go....and yeh...dw guys, thanks for all your help but ima work this out....maybe ill post what i end up doing (engine-wise) and you can see what i end up running around in :P.

i paid integra type r money for it....yeh i know bit stupid...

and to the post about karma, and whether i do anything about it...guy i bought it off looked f***** broke, i seriously can't believe that he did this, i reckon it was the guy he bought it off (you know, the whole "ah well i got f***** i'm gonna f*** someone else"). chain stops with me.

at the end of the day, you can go, cause serious serious damage (unfortunately it's a LOT easier than you would think), and feel fullfilled, but imo, one of us is in a position to fix this, and the other one isn't.

i know this sounds stupid, but i'm not your every day joe-go-buy-a-car-without-checking-anything. i checked everything. unfortunately i refused to look further into the engine code. i was more on the look out for written off. and believe me, the chasis is itr, and that sort of made me think "yeh it's all good"

anyway guys i'm done. you've helped me with all my questions and now it's onto the whole "make it a f****load better than a dc2r faze"...which will probably require a dc2r engine lol.

cheers

[GSi_PSi]

if ur after making into a "load better than the dc2r", then start with a K20/24 swap dont waste ur money on a another B18CR, cause ppl will then ask why it hasnt got the original engine etc etc. Im certain no ones going to ask why you swapped out the engine for a K series :P

[hotdc2]

You talk like you have a bit of money.. if so, go K. you won't regret it.
best thing you could ever do to your car

[Neesmo31]

Just for future reference the best way to check for a genuine model is to get a VCheck and also i emailed honda australia with my VIN and Engine number (before i bought the car mind you) and they confirmed that it was in fact a genuine type r with the original motor. Your vceck will tell you if the motor/chassis numbers dont match too.

[aaronng]

i don't think Revs opperate in Victoria. Isn't it just a NSW thing?

NSW-based REVS operates in all states except WA and Tasmania. WA has their own REVS and Tasmania has a different authority.

[cymax]

if ur after making into a "load better than the dc2r", then start with a K20/24 swap dont waste ur money on a another B18CR, cause ppl will then ask why it hasnt got the original engine etc etc. Im certain no ones going to ask why you swapped out the engine for a K series :P

I think people will still ask why his engine is a B18C2 anyway. If he has TLC then I reckon Kswap is the way, but however, if he has a small budget and willing to spend, he can consider waiting for people in the forum trying to sell their B18C7 block.

K swap will set you at least 10k and a block will cost you between 2k-4k depending on seller.

[90LAN]

lol, did the vehicle check n everything - was on the look out for b18c1...when i saw c2 thought ah k it's all good. the thing revs to the right limit, goes like i thought it would go....and yeh...dw guys, thanks for all your help but ima work this out....maybe ill post what i end up doing (engine-wise) and you can see what i end up running around in :P.

its actually b18c7
for the aussie model itr model
just for future reference

[F.O.B Squad]

I think a the first rule when buying a second car should be the question asked;
"Any accident history?"

[string]

i would be pretty pissed if its B18C2 block. cause if the block is standard, the comp ratio is around 10:1 or so and with a PR3 head compression is even lower compared to P72 head. The B18C7 block has greater comp ratio, lightweight balanced Crankshaft, Different pistons 11+ comp, better Oil/water pumps....

The oil and water pumps are the same. Infact after '96, all B-series motors shared the same oil pump. The Type-R head is where the money is at: lightweight valves, big valve springs and of course, big cams.

[Zilli]

I thought everythng in itr motor was balanced and blueprinted by hand too?

It is, there is deburring of the crank, different rods, along with a few other things...

[hotdc2]

well maybe it has ITR internals?



just maybe..
he might be lucky enough

[anfo2gig]

I was looking for a type R before hand,
and notice a Type R shell but with b18C2XXXXX as engine number
however it was short of one character from the normal length for engine number.
I soon realise the guy had a b18c (jap spec) with reciepts to prove it.
mayb that could be the same case for you.

But anyway i didnt end up getting that car.

hope that helps for OP

Here is a link that kinda show what im talking about (look at 1st and 2nd photo): http://www.tokyomotorimports.com/engine/117/%20B18C%20%20TYPE-R%20ITR%2098+.html

[imratedpg]

post sum pics up

[GSi_PSi]

The oil and water pumps are the same. Infact after '96, all B-series motors shared the same oil pump. The Type-R head is where the money is at: lightweight valves, big valve springs and of course, big cams.

Not entirely true i remember seeing a thread somewere , when pulled apart the ITR pumps contain stronger materials although they share the same design.

[nickasse]

I was looking for a type R before hand,
and notice a Type R shell but with b18C2XXXXX as engine number
however it was short of one character from the normal length for engine number.
I soon realise the guy had a b18c (jap spec) with reciepts to prove it.
mayb that could be the same case for you.

But anyway i didnt end up getting that car.

hope that helps for OP

Here is a link that kinda show what im talking about (look at 1st and 2nd photo): http://www.tokyomotorimports.com/engine/117/%20B18C%20%20TYPE-R%20ITR%2098+.html

ah...mine has 7 numbers after the 'c'. i looked up a vti-r and it has 8 numbers after the c.... also, can anyone give me a bit more info on how to check whether my transmission is itr or not.

[nickasse]

yeh sorry to dig this up again lol but here's where i'm at now:
My engine code is b18c2xxxxxx (7 numbers after c) as oposed to b18c2xxxxxxx (8 numbers after c)
I looked at a gear ratio calculator, went out for a drive, and found that i've got the same gearing as an itr gearbox with a 4.4 final drive.

is it possible i've got a 96 jdm itr engine...because that's what i think i have now.

[string]

Not entirely true i remember seeing a thread somewere , when pulled apart the ITR pumps contain stronger materials although they share the same design.

The part number for the oil pump is identical for all 96+ models.



1992-95 Integra VTEC Oil Pump
15100-PR3-024 PUMP ASSY., OIL

90-95 Integra LS Oil Pump
15100-PR4-A03 PUMP ASSY., OIL

96-01 Integra Oil Pump All Models
15100-P72-A01 PUMP ASSY., OIL
91308-PK1-003 O-RING (26.2x2.4)
11810-P72-A00 COVER, TIMING BELT

[anfo2gig]

yeh sorry to dig this up again lol but here's where i'm at now:
My engine code is b18c2xxxxxx (7 numbers after c) as oposed to b18c2xxxxxxx (8 numbers after c)
I looked at a gear ratio calculator, went out for a drive, and found that i've got the same gearing as an itr gearbox with a 4.4 final drive.

is it possible i've got a 96 jdm itr engine...because that's what i think i have now.

Im pretty sure you have a JDM ITR engine.

[aaronng]

yeh sorry to dig this up again lol but here's where i'm at now:
My engine code is b18c2xxxxxx (7 numbers after c) as oposed to b18c2xxxxxxx (8 numbers after c)
I looked at a gear ratio calculator, went out for a drive, and found that i've got the same gearing as an itr gearbox with a 4.4 final drive.

is it possible i've got a 96 jdm itr engine...because that's what i think i have now.

Don't want to state the obvious, but have you checked the engine code stamped on the block? Or did you just rely on the engine code from the VIN check?
The block will say B18C2 (VTIR), B18C7 (AUDM Type R) or B18C (JDM VTIR or Type R). That will be your definitive answer and not having to guess if you have 7 or 8 digits and who is right or wrong. Look at the area circled in the pic below:

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/931/37473454.jpg

[CVCEM1]

wow..just being bored reading the threads, amazed by the effort we put out to help one another. it's really good!

[GSi_PSi]

I dont think the op is giving us the right code for his engine, as arrongg said
The engine code will be here
http://image.superstreetonline.com/f/techarticles/8683751+w200/p81177_image_large.jpg

[SHI-FTY]

shiznit ur final drive is 4.4?? ITR's r 4.7

[hotdc2]

shiznit ur final drive is 4.4?? ITR's r 4.7

96 spec ITRs have a 4.4 FD

[nickasse]

ai i checked the engine block when i first made the thread. had the same numbers as the vin
i'll check it again tommorow though
anyone give me a way to be 100% sure as to whether i have an lsd or not...because i heard that the boosting it up and spinning the wheels method won't work on itr cos of the hydraulic lsd or something...and are the wheels meant to spin the same or opposite ways if you HAVE an lsd?

[aaronng]

ai i checked the engine block when i first made the thread. had the same numbers as the vin
i'll check it again tommorow though
anyone give me a way to be 100% sure as to whether i have an lsd or not...because i heard that the boosting it up and spinning the wheels method won't work on itr cos of the hydraulic lsd or something...and are the wheels meant to spin the same or opposite ways if you HAVE an lsd?

The first row printed on the engine block. What does it say? It should say either B18C2, B18C7 or B18C. Which one is it?

[GSi_PSi]

your tranny will be marked in green writing LSD
http://www.ff-squad.com/technet/how-to/lsdcheck/lsd.inkstamp_tn.jpg

[anfo2gig]

The first row printed on the engine block. What does it say? It should say either B18C2, B18C7 or B18C. Which one is it?

This man know what his saying lol :) please check it.

But so far the information you have said it seem very likely (definately to me anyway) you have a JDM ITR engine.

[imratedpg]

just post sum photos up....

[nickasse]

ai guys. It says B18C
then underneath XXXXXXX (i don't have the car with me atm, which is why i said i'd check the block tomorrow just to double check it's same as vin (which it is) and also why i can't take pictures.)
I reckon it comes down to the gearbox...i mean if it's itr, and therefore have an lsd, there's no way the guy:
1. blew his engine
2. bought a jdm integra type r transmission (cos i know my ratio is 4.4 final drive)
3. bought a jdm SIR-G block
4. bought a jdm/audm integra type r/civic head
and threw it all together. it's too much effort for too much stupidity.

[imratedpg]

ok then u got a jdm itr motor if there is no number next to the C

[aaronng]

ai guys. It says B18C
then underneath XXXXXXX (i don't have the car with me atm, which is why i said i'd check the block tomorrow just to double check it's same as vin (which it is) and also why i can't take pictures.)
I reckon it comes down to the gearbox...i mean if it's itr, and therefore have an lsd, there's no way the guy:
1. blew his engine
2. bought a jdm integra type r transmission (cos i know my ratio is 4.4 final drive)
3. bought a jdm SIR-G block
4. bought a jdm/audm integra type r/civic head
and threw it all together. it's too much effort for too much stupidity.
Or maybe he blew his engine and got a JDM B18C from a type R as a replacement and everything else is still the same. I wouldn't rely too much on a gear ratio calculator to tell you whether you have a 4.4 or 4.7 final drive. Unless you have someone with a DC2R with known 4.4 final drive telling you that your engine should be spinning at xxxx RPM at a certain speed, I would still be guessing that your gearbox could have a 4.7 final drive.

[SHOGUNOVDDRK]

A gearbox doesn't really mean shit, a gearbox can be replaced if the guy is a total nub and blows it..

[smomo]

So lets get this straight

- you have a 4.4FD
- you have B18c stamp with no number after it (on the top line)
- it revs to 8600 (approx) like a type-r engine

To me it sounds like you might have a complete '96 Spec JDM Integra Type R engine+gearbox package. Possibly the original engine blew and the owner could only locate a full gearbox+engine package or a halfcut and thus they swapped the whole lot in.

Thats my thinking anyway.....

But like aaronng said, how can you be sure you have a 4.4FD?

[hotdc2]

yeah, that's what it sounds like.

i'd be pretty happy if i got a 96 spec halfcut in my AUDM ITR.

sounds like a win-win

[nickasse]

So lets get this straight

- you have a 4.4FD
- you have B18c stamp with no number after it (on the top line)
- it revs to 8600 (approx) like a type-r engine

To me it sounds like you might have a complete '96 Spec JDM Integra Type R engine+gearbox package. Possibly the original engine blew and the owner could only locate a full gearbox+engine package or a halfcut and thus they swapped the whole lot in.

Thats my thinking anyway.....

But like aaronng said, how can you be sure you have a 4.4FD?

^ everything above is correct and what i think.

i think it's a 4.4 fd because:
i found the gear ratios for the integra type r 96 spec, sir-g and itr 98 spec engine.
put them into a calculator
went out for a drive
and found that at 100km/h in 5th i am doing ~2800 rpm, and the calculator for the 96 spec itr transmission gives me 2880 rpm....

[gerrard-from30yards]

awesome dude looks like u didnt get stiffed! :cool:

[cymax]

LOL.... you thought that you got cheated but in fact you got the good deal...

[string]

^ everything above is correct and what i think.

i think it's a 4.4 fd because:
i found the gear ratios for the integra type r 96 spec, sir-g and itr 98 spec engine.
put them into a calculator
went out for a drive
and found that at 100km/h in 5th i am doing ~2800 rpm, and the calculator for the 96 spec itr transmission gives me 2880 rpm....

Which calculator did you use? The mfactory gear calculator reports ~3233rpm @ 100kph for a 96 ITR transmission.

2800rpm is too low for an ITR @ 100kph. Assuming a 23.4inch tyre height, 4.4 FD, 0.848 5th gear, 100kph = 3324rpm. A 0.878 5th gear from a VTiR/GSR gives 3084rpm. A non-vtec S80 gives 2700rpm with the longer FD and 5th.

My non-vtec B18A does 110 at just under 3300rpm indicated => calculator (excel) reports ~3200. This is a higher rpm per unit speed than your "ITR" transmission. Suffice to say I there's something fishy going on.

I don't think you're in the clear just yet.

[anfo2gig]

Told you got an ITR jap spec engine :)

[nickasse]

Which calculator did you use? The mfactory gear calculator reports ~3233rpm @ 100kph for a 96 ITR transmission.

2800rpm is too low for an ITR @ 100kph. Assuming a 23.4inch tyre height, 4.4 FD, 0.848 5th gear, 100kph = 3324rpm. A 0.878 5th gear from a VTiR/GSR gives 3084rpm. A non-vtec S80 gives 2700rpm with the longer FD and 5th.

My non-vtec B18A does 110 at just under 3300rpm indicated => calculator (excel) reports ~3200. This is a higher rpm per unit speed than your "ITR" transmission. Suffice to say I there's something fishy going on.

I don't think you're in the clear just yet.

hmm, i used the mfactory one and i've got an sir-g transmission still don't know about engine block and internals are definately integra type r (cams n pistons and stuff).