Impact Wrench for Wheels Nut/ Lug Nuts

[cymax]

Hi Guys,

I've been searching for an impact wrench for my own home garage but doesn't know what suits me well. I'll be using it mostly for taking off and putting the nuts for my wheels. I'm not looking for air tools because I need portability.

What kind of torque should I be looking for? Can the link below do?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HITACHI-WR18DL-18-VOLT-LI-ION-IMPACT-WRENCH-DRILL-18V_W0QQitemZ360200473264QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Bus iness_Industrial_Construction_Industrial_Equipment ?hash=item53dd9f0ab0

Any help will be much appreciated.

[Zilli]

that looks fine... i used to use an air impact wrech to do my wheels until i was told it's not healthy for the stods and also the disc... possible warping apparently... i can see an issue with removing, but i only tighten by hand these days

[cymax]

To be honest, I don't really how tight should I go when tightening by hand seriously. I broke the tilting area where you connect the socket on my breaker bar yesterday while changing the wheels. Think I over tightened the nut with my bull strength... :P

[Zilli]

:-)

you could probably look up the recommended torque settings... im not sure if tightening as much as you can by hand will surpass the torque applied by a mechanised wrench...

i just go as tight as i can without trying to go nuts... and always give them a quick check when i come back after a drive...

the key is making them tight enough to sit flush with the hub whilst the wheel is off the ground, then doing the full tighten when its on the ground

[EK1.6LCIV]

80ft. lbs. with a torque wrench and basic supercheap socket fittings is all you need buddy :) when it comes to wheel lug nuts

flawless system, been using it for years, I check it often doesnt fluctuate

I'm investing in some air tools soon, but theyre just to make removing certain things easier where leverage is poor

[cymax]

that's what I was thinking as well... oh well, i might just hold on awhile and see if anyone here selling them second hand. It's just a bit pricey to get a brand new ones.....

[EK1.6LCIV]

if you wanted brand new ones sus out sca brand at supercheap theyre pretty well priced new

[cymax]

what does 80ft lbs means? Like how you judge your strength 80ft lbs?

[cymax]

SCA doesn't have cordless impact wrench afaik. They only sell those air ones.

[EK1.6LCIV]

why the heck would you want cordless, they had a special last month for the lot for under $300 with compressor and fittings, trust me this month alot will be discounted

if you wanted a cordless system, expect to spend at least $400+ for something of decent quality

[cymax]

I want to bring it to the track to change my tyres. That's the reason why I want cordless.

[EK1.6LCIV]

lol, buy a torque wrench, trolley jack and socket fittings and some gloves :) hardly takes me long to remove and install four rims and tyres

[cymax]

I had the trolley jack and torque wrench and sockets already. But damn, wakefield was heaps hot last 2 weeks. I sweat like a pig after changing all four wheels. :(

[EK1.6LCIV]

bring alot of water and a hat along with sunscreen :) I like heading to the track during the winter months for this reason personally, lol

[cymax]

yeah i agree with you.... but i still go no matter what weather it is...anyway, I'll just see how it goes.... thanks for the advice though. much appreciate it.

[traumatized]

keep in mind the ebay item is just the bare tool and a battery will also need to be purchased.

[lithium]

what does 80ft lbs means? Like how you judge your strength 80ft lbs?

it's a torque measurement. usually what you do is buy a torque wrench (el cheapo $50 one from SCA or ebay will do for lug nuts), set it to '80 ft/lb' and turn till you hear the click

if you mean 'what is the definition of 80 ft/lb' it is: get a lever 1 foot long, put it on your lug nut with the lever horizontal, and hang 80 pounds off the end of it. keep doing this until your lug nut doesn't move: then it's at 80ft/lb

btw if you're tightening your wheel nuts so much that you broke a breaker bar :eek: that's probably way too tight! i use a torque wrench on my lug nuts and tighten by hand every time. you'll feel safe knowing your wheels will never fall off and at the same time the nuts are real easy to get off next time - no impact wrench needed :)

[EK1.6LCIV]

too tight is when sweat is coming off your forehead trying to remove a nut, hence why if I do need help and it must go to a shop I always have them hand tighten the nuts then I finish it off with my tools instead of the abuse it would cop from a rattle gun in the hands of a 16yo kid from highschool, lol

[lithium]

too tight is when sweat is coming off your forehead trying to remove a nut, hence why if I do need help and it must go to a shop I always have them hand tighten the nuts then I finish it off with my tools instead of the abuse it would cop from a rattle gun in the hands of a 16yo kid from highschool, lol

good advice, tyre shops in particular are butchers with their air wrench. especially when you have aftermarket wheels with lock nuts!

[cymax]

keep in mind the ebay item is just the bare tool and a battery will also need to be purchased.

yeah, i realised that when browsing. One whole set (impact wrench, battery and charger) will cost you about 500 bucks all up...

[string]

Torque measurements aren't a very accurate way to measure bolt/stud stretch unless you can control the friction of the threads. Wheel studs have got to be one of the filthiest/rustiest threads on the whole car - there's no way that tightening them to 80ft-lb will guarantee "correct" tightness.

Power/Air tools are fast and easy (when you're at home anyway), but you want to ensure that you can get the same nuts undone with the hand-tools you carry with you in the car else you'll be banging your head on the wall trying to get a wheel off when you get a flat.

I only bother using a torque wrench for big critical bolts (head studs etc...). If you're not fully cleaning the threads and lubricating them each and every time, then your efforts are wasted anyway.

[lithium]

what you say is true. i believe torque specs are used as they are the most (only?) practical way of measuring bolt stretch and tension.

i wouldn't quite say that the efforts using a torque wrench are wasted without correct preparation though. i'm not a mechanical engineer so i can't say how far off the correct tension you'd be torquing a clean bolt vs a bolt with anti-seize, or a bolt with oil, or a rusted bolt, etc. etc. but i suspect it'd be closer than using a breaker bar and guessing by hand...

also i consider the lug nuts to be one of the most critical fasteners on the car as it prevents your wheels from falling off :)

[EK1.6LCIV]

I use anti-seize, it's cheap insurance for the wheel shops to not strip items

even though none of them will use it as they're under the impression (non-engineered backed of course with no formula to show me) that using it could result in failure ie. nut loosening and coming off the stud, lol

I use it to keep off oxidation and for ease of removal and installation during my monthly checks

[string]

With dirty threads you're almost guaranteed to under torque it. Even with perfectly smooth lubricated threads, it's an artform to accurately use a torque wrench.

All I know is that I tighten the lugs up "pretty ****in' tight" by hand and I've had a total of zero problems in the 5 years I've been working on cars.

As a relevent reference, ARP head studs (the ones I bought anyway) are rated at 75ft-lb using moly disulphide grease, and 85ft-lb with 10w-30 motor oil. What do you think the torque requirement would be for rusty threads?

[Red_EG4]

My brother bought a big hitachi cordless set the other week, it includes that impact wrench. I love the thing. I would never have been able to undo some nuts without it.
When putting on my wheel nuts, I get them started by hand until they are a couple of threads on and then give them a quick spin with the wrench, but I don't allow them to go tighter than the 110Nm setting on my torque wrench.

[EK1.6LCIV]

With dirty threads you're almost guaranteed to under torque it. Even with perfectly smooth lubricated threads, it's an artform to accurately use a torque wrench.

All I know is that I tighten the lugs up "pretty ****in' tight" by hand and I've had a total of zero problems in the 5 years I've been working on cars.

As a relevent reference, ARP head studs (the ones I bought anyway) are rated at 75ft-lb using moly disulphide grease, and 85ft-lb with 10w-30 motor oil. What do you think the torque requirement would be for rusty threads?

surface rust can be cleaned and should be if present :) then there's the same values in place

[lithium]

With dirty threads you're almost guaranteed to under torque it. Even with perfectly smooth lubricated threads, it's an artform to accurately use a torque wrench.

All I know is that I tighten the lugs up "pretty ****in' tight" by hand and I've had a total of zero problems in the 5 years I've been working on cars.

As a relevent reference, ARP head studs (the ones I bought anyway) are rated at 75ft-lb using moly disulphide grease, and 85ft-lb with 10w-30 motor oil. What do you think the torque requirement would be for rusty threads?

fair enough - i'm not having a go at you mate :) i've always used a torque wrench on my lug nuts and guess what? i've also had a total of zero problems in the 3 years i've been working on cars.

doesn't mean i'm doing it right :)

i don't know what the torque requirement is for rusty threads and i gather neither do you. perhaps you will undertorque it but can you give a figure as to how much you will undertorque it by? is it 5% (doesn't matter), 20% (probably doesn't matter) or 80% (yeah wheel is coming off)?

do you suppose 'pretty ****ing tight' is more accurate than a torque wrench? how do you know your rusted threads aren't causing so much friction that your PFT measurement is under the factory spec?

again don't think i'm having a go at you because you seem to be quite knowledgeable. just saying this because i like torque wrenches and i believe many of the evils in the car world can be cured by their use :)

[EK1.6LCIV]

I use a torque wrench as over tightening can lead to a repair cost greater than the current task at hand lol

[string]

By all means use a torque wrench, just don't convince yourself it's perfect because the wrench clicked.

IMO there's too many factors before you even consider calibration and accuracy, which is why I do 99% of bolts up by hand. I'd much prefer to do them up hard enough that [from experience] I know they won't come undone, than to be lulled into a false sense of security through a gauge reading. If you're willing to fully prepare the threads then more power to you, but I'm a backyard mechanic who trusts his instincts and prefers to save time which could be better spent drinking beer and playing computer games.

[lithium]

By all means use a torque wrench, just don't convince yourself it's perfect because the wrench clicked.

IMO there's too many factors before you even consider calibration and accuracy, which is why I do 99% of bolts up by hand. I'd much prefer to do them up hard enough that [from experience] I know they won't come undone, than to be lulled into a false sense of security through a gauge reading. If you're willing to fully prepare the threads then more power to you, but I'm a backyard mechanic who trusts his instincts and prefers to save time which could be better spent drinking beer and playing computer games.

amen to that :thumbsup:

[cymax]

Hi Guys,

All well said. All the information given on this thread == GOLD!!! Reps given!

Cheers

[rossirider]

hey Cymax, Its Max here.
My mate that you met at Wakie has this small impact that you plug into the ciggarette socket in the car. Its not very powerful at all but I loosen the nuts with the wrench and then use the gun to take it off.

To put them on, I use the gun and then hand tighten with wrench. You only need to nip it up a little bit to tighten it.

I can find out where he got it from and what brand if you want.

[bennjamin]

just some hints guys -

1. do not TIGHTEN lug nuts when WARM or HOT ( Ie directly after car use) IT can snap lug nuts or round lug nuts/lugs.

2. An impact gun (electric) will never apply the correct torque when tigthening. Use a proper decent torque wrench to get CLOSE to the correct torque , tigthen in a cross pattern and also tighten slightly over spec IMO. ( 108NM + )


For the best combo....you need a 1/2 inch 2 + foot long breaker bar , DEEP 6 sided impact sockets , a proper torque wrench that reads atleast to 200nm or so. As for the IMPACT gun ....unless you are a DIY guy like me dont bother. You cant rely on the impact gun to do everything ( untighten and tigten to spec) .
I personally use a ratchet or breaker bar to CRACK/LOOSEN any lug nuts or others first , then go over with the impact gun to take off. When putting back on use the impact gun to lightly tigthen ( IE quick BLAP BLAP BLAP) then finish off with a torque wrench set to the relevant torque.

[mrpsi]

yes torque wrench is the best thing for tightening lug nuts.

you should not need a breaker bar to undo your lug nuts that is way to tight. Check the service manual for the correct torque ammount, you should find it wont be very much!

[cymax]

hey Cymax, Its Max here.
My mate that you met at Wakie has this small impact that you plug into the ciggarette socket in the car. Its not very powerful at all but I loosen the nuts with the wrench and then use the gun to take it off.

To put them on, I use the gun and then hand tighten with wrench. You only need to nip it up a little bit to tighten it.

I can find out where he got it from and what brand if you want.

Hey Mate! How is it going! Yeah, what's the brand? Think it'll be helpful and it'll be more cost efficient doing your way. Share with ppl here. Think they'll be interested to know. :)

[cymax]

Think I'll invest one torque wrench as well.... where do you guys reckon I can get one a cheap one? SCA?

[mrpsi]

i have a supatool one that i purchased from bunnings for about $40. it has worked a treat for many years.

[cymax]

That's pretty cheap... i'll take a trip down to bunnings this weekend or maybe later!

Thanks guys.

Ben, are you still selling your impact wrench by any chance?

[string]

i have a supatool one that i purchased from bunnings for about $40. it has worked a treat for many years.
Have you ever had it calibrated/tested? $40 is awfully cheap for a precision tool - needless to say I would be suspicious of it's accuracy, stability and durability (especially if it's one of the spring tension with screw at the bottom types).

I picked up a beam deflection torque wrench off ebay for under $130. You could probably do better with patience.

[mrpsi]

no i havent had it tested. Seems quite consistant.

Doesnt have to be exact for the things i am doing with it as long as its there abouts.

[cymax]

Have you ever had it calibrated/tested? $40 is awfully cheap for a precision tool - needless to say I would be suspicious of it's accuracy, stability and durability (especially if it's one of the spring tension with screw at the bottom types).

I picked up a beam deflection torque wrench off ebay for under $130. You could probably do better with patience.

Is this what you are talking about?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Sidchrome-1-2-Dve-Deflecting-Beam-Torque-Wrench-270-Nm_W0QQitemZ370288417960QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Hand _Tools?hash=item5636e8dca8

Looks hectic to me...hehe...

[aaronng]

Have you ever had it calibrated/tested? $40 is awfully cheap for a precision tool - needless to say I would be suspicious of it's accuracy, stability and durability (especially if it's one of the spring tension with screw at the bottom types).

I picked up a beam deflection torque wrench off ebay for under $130. You could probably do better with patience.
I picked up cheap superworks gold torque wrench from SCA during their 20% off and in the box is a little cert saying it has been tested.

[string]

That's the one. Mine's an old Warren and Brown; the one you found on ebay looks much the same except a bit more modern. 270Nm is extreme so you could probably save money with a smaller version. The highest torque bolt I've come across is the crank pulley bolt at 180Nm.

[EK1.6LCIV]

the accuracy in even the most expensive brands is near 2% inaccurate

a super tool item will do a very good job for many years, they've gone up tho, they're now $50 and come with a case

lol @ testing it... There is very good Quality Control involved in tools bought from stores in oz that aren't ebay...

but if you wanted the near best, snap on tools and drop several hundred dollars (accuracy of 1% & 2%+/-)

[cymax]

woah, im no professional man. it's more for hobby and convenience. Think you guys are right. I might drop the idea on getting an expensive impact wrench. I'll just get a breaker bar and torque wrench. Breaker bar to loosen the lug nut and for some of my own stuff and torque wrench to tighten it.

[string]

The beam deflection type torque wrenches have a reputation for holding their calibration for decades. You don't have to worry about adjusting them correctly for storage, and you don't have to wind a screw for hours to change the setting. Having used both, I much prefer the beam type (before even considering actual accuracy).

[DEMON83]

FYI - u can get Electric Impact Wrench that runs from 12v socket in ur car for about $70 from Autobarn is good for removal of nuts and other hard to get/stubborn bits under the car... but as stated above always put nuts on by hand and torque up, 80ft.lbs or 103Nm is about right.

[cymax]

oooh! That's one great info! good one boss!

[lithium]

woah, im no professional man. it's more for hobby and convenience. Think you guys are right. I might drop the idea on getting an expensive impact wrench. I'll just get a breaker bar and torque wrench. Breaker bar to loosen the lug nut and for some of my own stuff and torque wrench to tighten it.

great idea :) my personal preference is for the click-style wrench as i find reading a beam-style wrench while torquing a bolt a bit of a pain. just make sure you don't drop it and you'll be fine with accuracy - after all these are lug nuts you're torquing, not something with small bolts/studs that has to be air-tight or water-tight or spins really fast

yeah there's some argument about click wrenches losing accuracy compared to beam wrenches, but i think that mostly happens if you're a pro that clicks your click wrench a few hundred times a day - not such a biggie for backyard guys who would be lucky to click their wrench a few times a month :)

[EK1.6LCIV]

I'd rather hear a click in a hard to reach situation that have to focus on a beam personally

hours to adjust screw? lol hmmm, I don't expirence any of those difficulties lol

[aaronng]

FYI - u can get Electric Impact Wrench that runs from 12v socket in ur car for about $70 from Autobarn is good for removal of nuts and other hard to get/stubborn bits under the car... but as stated above always put nuts on by hand and torque up, 80ft.lbs or 103Nm is about right.

The cheap ones claim 103Nm, but deliver nowhere near that. I have a cheap cordless one that claims 110Nm but even that has problems undoing my wheel nuts that are done up to only 90Nm when testing.

[string]

I'd rather hear a click in a hard to reach situation that have to focus on a beam personally

hours to adjust screw? lol hmmm, I don't expirence any of those difficulties lol

my personal preference is for the click-style wrench as i find reading a beam-style wrench while torquing a bolt a bit of a pain.
The Warren and Brown models click.

[EK1.6LCIV]

but if it's more than $50AU with a box and warranty for the av. home garage, once a every month use it's over kill

[string]

I could throw my torque wrench on ebay in a years time and get back what I paid for it. No one will buy a used $50 supercheap wrench.

[lithium]

The Warren and Brown models click.

ah, pretty cool.

then again this *is* a Warren and Brown which is a professional quality tool. perhaps not the right thing for someone to buy who just uses it to do up lug nuts once a month

[string]

I stand by my opinion that the right tool to do up lug nuts is the wheel-brace that comes with your car.

I didn't find it hard to justify a high quality tool, and I'm just a home user. When you buy cheap tools (or parts), you end up buying them twice.

[lithium]

I could throw my torque wrench on ebay in a years time and get back what I paid for it. No one will buy a used $50 supercheap wrench.

dude how do you know your second hand wrench hasn't been abused, dropped, run over by a car...perhaps it's why it was on ebay? do you really trust it's accuracy more than a cheapie with warranty and a calibration certificate?

[nickxau]

LoL@people showing off their tools here.

To the OP, "use the right tool(s) for the job" is what I believe in. Just buy what you believe would be suitable/can afford for the job at hand based on the advice here. As an example, can you justify spending $500+ for a cordless unit which you're going to be using once here and maybe 3 or 4 times per year when you're on track?

I had to do a few spark plugs once upon a time and bought a ~$40 from SCA. Used it for less than 5x's and now it's sitting somewhere in my garage (I think). $40 well spent at the time I reckon coz now I never have to use it again but at that time, it was the right tool for the job :thumbsup:.

[cymax]

yeah i agree with spending the money right. I also reckon that spending 500+ for cordless unit is not worth if im using it like 3-4 times a year.... Think i'll just settle with one set of breaker bar and one torque wrench...i'll be popping by bunnings later to see wat they have...

guys, I think everyone has a point here. It's more like your own preference...

[bennjamin]

just an opion / experience here

for a GOOD impact gun - 1/2 inch , 200nm "rated" or more - 18v a must.
Around $600+ for the kit.

for a good torque wrench , ranges from $150 +

For the casual DIY guy this isnt an option. If you will use it moderate or often track etc its a good investment.