H4 wiring harness upgrade [Archive]

dahondr98

23-12-2009, 08:20 PM

Oh damn that's annoying. So how much did it cost you for all those parts? And is there any kits that have what you mentioned for sale as a package?

Yes, there are. Contrary to what Vinny said, they are easy to get hold of (sorry Vinny!). The two main looms available in Australia are made by Piranha and ARB, who both supply parts for 4WD's. I've got the Piranha kit in my Civic, and it makes quite a difference. I did just get a price list from ARB recently (I'm a shareholder, so was checking their products!), and their wiring loom costs about $150 - I can't confirm the exact cost, as I suffered a PC crash soon after they sent me their price list, and I lost it when re-formatting my hard drive. The Piranha kit uses 6mm wire, which apparently is slightly thicker than the ARB loom, and I think they cost about $200.

The ARB looms are available at any ARB 4WD store, and the Piranha loom is available from plenty of 4WD accessories stores, such as TJM, Opposite Lock, 4WD Warehouse, etc. Either will be better than the thin wiring Honda uses as standard. Another seller of upgrade looms on Ebay is Hobzee's 4H 4WD Shop - see http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Nissan-Patrol-Maverick-GQ-GU-MQ-Headlight-Loom-Upgrade_W0QQitemZ220492317421QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU _Car_Parts_Accessories?hash=item33565dc2ed , or at http://www.4h.com.au/prod358.htm . As he says on Ebay, although it's advertised for the Nissan Patrol, it will fit most other cars - he uses 6mm wire for high beam and 4mm wire for low beam - Honda use inadequate 2.5mm wire. I did see recently on a 4WD forum that there is a 4WD shop in Melbourne that has identical Landcruisers, with the only difference being a Piranha loom, and apparently the difference in light output between them can be seen easily - apparently most people spend the money to buy the loom when they see the difference! Most Jap cars use the same thin wire, whch is why Nissans and Toyotas also benefit, like Hondas.

From tests I did when my Civic was new, the voltage drop was about 15% at the headlights (more than 2V drop), and according to Hella, that equates to the headlights only being 54% as bright as when they have full battery voltage. I can certainly confirm, from swapping the plugs between the aftermarket Piranha loom, and the original loom, that the aftermarket loom gives much brighter light, on both low and high beam.:thumbsup:

If you want to build one yourself, you can get all the parts from NA Auto, who supply auto electrical parts online - see http://www.naauto.biz . Unfortunately they have had someone redesign their online shop using Javascript, so it takes a long time to load, and doesn't work unless you enable Javascript. Get rid of it, NAAuto!:thumbdwn: You can certainly save some money by doing it yourself, but it is a bit of work.

Finally, if the EG headlights have plastic lenses, don't use higher wattage globes - you'll wreck the lights very quickly. If they are glass lights, then you can use higher rated globes (eg 80/100W), but you need to upgrade the wiring to handle the current. Better to do that first - most likely you won't bother changing the globes - the Philips globes are the best available at present in standard wattage.

PlatinumVisuals

24-12-2009, 01:41 PM

Don,

Weren't the AUDM headlights made out of glass ? And the JDM Headlights made out of plastic ?

Edit:

I just noticed you said "if" :) My mistake.

dahondr98

24-12-2009, 02:57 PM

Don,

Weren't the AUDM headlights made out of glass ? And the JDM Headlights made out of plastic ?

Edit:

I just noticed you said "if" :) My mistake.

Yeah, as I don't own that model, I didn't know.:confused:

mocchi

25-12-2009, 08:52 AM

i still dont quite understand where to plug them.

we rip out the old harness?

vinnY

25-12-2009, 08:54 AM

you plug them into your old harness as they switch the bulbs off/low/high

but they are now powered by the new wiring

dahondr98

26-12-2009, 11:22 PM

i still dont quite understand where to plug them.

we rip out the old harness?

Yes, a Vinny said (I wasn't near a PC yesterday, as I wasn't at home), you plug the new harness into the old one. You don't rip out the old wires - they are still needed to power the new relays.

Specifically, you have a lead to the battery positive, a plug to plug into the old harness, two new sockets to plug into the headlight globes, and usually two new thick earth wires, one for each headlight socket. You unplug the old headlight sockets, attached to the Honda original equipment wires, and plug one of them into a male plug on the new harness. That gets the power from the old Honda wiring, to switch the relays on the new harness, for low beam and high beam. Then, the new harness has sockets which plug into your headlights. Put the earth wires to handy bolts in the engine bay near the headlights, to earth the non-battery sides of the headlight globes. That's it. Plug it in, attach several wires to battery and earth, mount the relays in a spot in the engine bay between the battery and closest headlight, and you're done.

Because the wires are nice and thick, and are all in the engine bay, the voltage drop is much less. The Honda wiring, while being much thinner, also travels from battery into the cabin of the car, via the headlight switch and dimmer stalk, back into the engine bay, and then to the headlights. It travels much further, and it's much thinner, so the old wiring drops a lot of voltage. The new wiring is much shorter, and much thicker, so is much more efficient. The old wiring is still needed to switch the relay coils, which only take a tiny amount of current, so the load is reduced on the old wires, and on the cabin headlight switch and dimmer switch.

NightKids

27-12-2009, 12:57 PM

The kits which u mentioned seems quite expensive. Would there be any other kits from overseas that may be cheaper u rkn?

I'm looking to run osram 65w rallye bulbs, although with a relay would be considering te 80w version. My Civic is aus spec but it seems to have a plastic headlight casing and not a glass one so it may melt the inside?

vinnY

27-12-2009, 02:46 PM

i'd be a bit weary running higher wattage bulbs in those plastic headlights

if you want cheap you have to make it yourself
like i said it's not complicated, just as long as you know someone that can solder and crimp wires

NightKids

27-12-2009, 03:45 PM

Yeah i see what you mean. The Osram 65w should be ok cause it's only 10w more. But the 80w might melt some things, depends if i wanna go the safe side i guess...

vinnY

27-12-2009, 03:50 PM

well stock bulbs are 55/60w anyway
wasn't aware they had an inbetween bulb
i've only seen 55/60w and the 100w rally bulbs

dahondr98

27-12-2009, 06:46 PM

The kits which u mentioned seems quite expensive. Would there be any other kits from overseas that may be cheaper u rkn?

There are headlight wiring kits from overseas, mainly the USA, but after postage, I think they'd be a similar price, if not more. I checked out postage on one of the US rally light websites, and it was more than they wanted for the harness, putting the cost way over ANY of the Aussie harnesses, in Australian dollars! When you consider price, remember, based on my voltage testing (tertiary qualified in electrical engineering), and Hella's figures, the Aussie harnesses will double the brightness of any globes you have in your headlights, compared to the inadequate Honda wiring. That's TWICE as bright. And it's before you change any bulbs!

And as pointed out by Vinny, you can save plenty of money doing it yourself (making a wiring harness, that is).

I'm looking to run osram 65w rallye bulbs, although with a relay would be considering te 80w version. My Civic is aus spec but it seems to have a plastic headlight casing and not a glass one so it may melt the inside?

The 65W bulbs are OK for plastic headlights. 80W bulbs you may get away with, but personally, I wouldn't risk it (but then again, I'm a careful person!). 100W (and higher) is out of the question - it damages plastic lamps. If they are plastic and not glass, then don't risk higher than about 70W. Apparently Osram's 70/65W H4 rally bulbs work OK in plastic headlamps without damage, according to an overseas expert.

02gzm

27-12-2009, 07:09 PM

You don't need to buy any expensive kits. All you need is the correctly rated normally open relays and wiring as previously stated.
In layman terms a relay is just a electronically controlled switch. You use your existing wiring to control the relay instead of the bulb. Then just run larger power wires to the relay, which are in turn connected to the higher watt bulb. So when you turn your headlights on you're actually turning the relay on. Once the relay has enabled the other circuit you get power to the bulbs.

NightKids

27-12-2009, 07:48 PM

Alright cool thanks for the info guys. I've decided to go ahead & build my own. The thing is i'm a total n00b and wouldn't know what goes where and what to buy. I've tried to do some research online but there's nothing for EG Civics.

When u coming for holidays in MELB dahondr? I'll get you to build one and install it for me... lol

SPO73D

27-12-2009, 08:11 PM

Hmm, a bit of a side note.

when running the relay kit you get with a Hi/low kit for H4's, Since there is only one connection to Positive battery(with grounding wires etc) , there seems to be a difference in intensity comparing the left and right lights.

Can we hook up a second relay kit and connect the other light to the positive battery outlet... Bit confusing, but basically instead of using 1 relay kit, use 2.

vinnY

27-12-2009, 08:17 PM

you can make it complicated if you want, the different is probably negligible though

NightKids

28-12-2009, 12:49 AM

2 relay kits equal more $$$ and would the difference be feasible?

dahondr98

28-12-2009, 01:01 AM

When u coming for holidays in MELB dahondr? I'll get you to build one and install it for me... lol

Most auto-electricians should be able to help you - why not ask one for a quote? I won't be in Melbourne for a while, if at all! lol

If you DIY, here’s what you need.

2 x relay connectors (Hella or NAAuto part no. 4973, or Narva part no. 68084BL).

or

2 x relay sockets (Dick Smith cat no. P8036, or Jaycar cat no. SY4069)

2 x 40A 12V normally open diode-protected relays (Hella part no. 3053, 3055 or 3055BL, or Narva part no. 68032BL), or 2 x 12V 40A resistor protected relays (Narva part no. 68028BL or 68004BL).

Several metres of:
Red 6mm (10AWG) diameter wire
Black 6mm diameter wire
This is often sold as automotive 50A wire – it’s available on Ebay sold by the metre, as either 6mm wire, or 50A wire. Some auto sellers (eg Repco, Bursons, Autobarn, Supercheap) may have it, but many won’t. I’d say maybe 6 or 7m of red wire, and 3-5m of black.

OR

Several metres of:
Red 5mm (12AWG) wire (eg Dick Smith cat no. W2286, Jaycar cat no. WH3080)
Black 5mm wire (eg Dick Smith cat no. W2288, Jaycar cat no. WH3082).
Jaycar’s wire is more expensive than DSE’s, but is better quality, as it’s tin plated for use in marine environments. Most automotive places should also have 5mm wire, and will often label it as 25A or 30A wire. Because the 5mm wire is easier to crimp than the 6mm wire, I’d suggest using that between the headlights and relays, and 6mm wire from the relays to the battery.

Several (say 6) automotive crimp-on yellow 6mm ring terminals (eg Jaycar cat no. PT4714 or Altronics cat no. H2066A). You need one for the battery positive, and 2 for the headlight sockets to earth, and allow a few more in case of problems.

2 30A blade fuses

2 30A blade fuse holders (eg Dick Smith cat no. P7905, Jaycar cat no. SZ2045, Altronics cat no. S6036). You could also use the larger “Maxi Blade Fuse Holder” – they are sold on Ebay. One fuse is required for high beam, and one for low beam. Note that you don’t need to fuse the wires from the original headlight sockets that operate the relays – they will already be fused by the current headlight fuses. You DO need to fuse the heavy duty wiring from battery positive to the two relay switch terminals – if you don’t you could burn your car down, as 6mm wire will handle 30A, and it will get red hot, if it shorts to earth. You should have the fuses near to the battery positive terminal.

Convoluted split tubing (eg Jaycar 7mm x 2m loom tube cat HP1221 or 10mm x10m cat HP1225). All auto accessory stores, such as Autobarn, Bursons, Repco or Supercheap, should have convoluted tubing in a range of diameters – usually 7, 10, 13, 16 or 19mm, to cover the wiring.

An automotive crimping tool, for red, blue or yellow auto crimp terminals. The best ones are ratchet crimpers, which always produce a reliable crimp, but usually start at about $35. Many of the cheap ones don’t produce reliable crimps, so it pays to also solder any connectors after crimping.
The non-insulated crimp terminals, as used in the Hella and Narva relay connectors, can be crimped with pliers, but I usually also solder them if doing that, or use a dedicated non-insulated terminal crimper – available from Jaycar (cat TH1834) or Altronics (cat T1548).

Cable ties to secure the harness to other wiring (available at most hardware, electronic and auto stores – sometimes known as zip ties).

Black electrical tape (well, it could be any colour, really).

2 x H4 sockets. These are available on ebay.com.au (do a search on “H4 HEADLIGHT HIGH TEMP PLUG KIT” and you’ll find them – the same seller sells most auto electrical parts, including 5mm and 6mm wire by the metre. His Ebay store is known as AUTO ELECTRICAL SOLUTIONS, and it’s in Qld). They are also available in NSW at http://www.naauto.biz/ , part no. H2783 (connector sealed beam).

You can follow the wiring instructions and circuit of the US car lighting expert Daniel Stern, available at http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html , to put the loom together. He also supplies a chart showing how globe brightness in lumens falls off as voltage does. 80% headlight voltage equates to 44% headlight brightness. Wonder why your headlights are dim? Now you know! I was getting about 80% of full battery voltage across my headlights, when the car was brand new.

An excellent description of how to build a relay headlight wiring loom for a Holden Gemini is available at http://www.hotgemini.com/viewtopic.php?t=27106 - unfortunately his pics have disappeared, but the basics of how to do it are similar to the Civic. The same guide, with the pics, is at http://www.ozgemini.com/forums/tech/viewtopic.php?t=1524 , but you need to register and log in to see it (yes, I do need to fix a Gemini, so I've been doing some research!). A good photo of Piranha Offroad’s headlight “Superloom” is available at http://piranhaoffroad.com.au/index.php/default/headlights-driving-lights/2-headlight-super-loom.html , to see what it should look like. You can expand their photos to get a closer look.

NightKids

28-12-2009, 02:10 AM

Wow thanks for the info! I reckon you really should be in Melbourne, your like the relay expert...

I have found a pretty decent looking kit which i want to run past you as it may save me a lot of time and headache. If you approve this kit then I'll buy it straight away as I'm not a very technical person at all! This kit seems pretty simple to hook up so let me know what you think...

http://www.suvlights.com/product_info.php?products_id=112

vinnY

28-12-2009, 02:19 AM

harness looks the goods
specs look alright, just as long as it's bigger than 12ga it's probably a decent kit
bit skeptical about the lengths but they can be extended of need be(if you want to tuck the wires to hide them a bit)

NightKids

28-12-2009, 02:28 AM

Damn it, they are only 14ga wires, is that gonna be a problem?

vinnY

28-12-2009, 02:31 AM

New & Improved Wire Harness features:

2 OE/OEM Bosch/Tyco (AMP/Potter & Brumfield) 40 amp relays (single or dual 87 outputs)
Heavy Duty interlocking relay sockets with mounting tab
Fusible link (slow reacting fuse protection) & separate blade fuses for low & high beams
12 gauge automotive wiring for main power
Black split loom matches OEM to protect against heat and elements
Male connector(s) to plug into existing headlight socket
(2 or 4) new headlight sockets (depending on application)

thought it was 12ga? or you might just have to buy the super heavy duty ones :p

NightKids

28-12-2009, 02:34 AM

Yeah I think it's only 14ga...

'The Heavy Duty models are 14 gauge and use 2 relays'

Seems like an alright kit and the price is pretty good ($65US inc postage) so if it's gonna save me heaps of trouble, this kit might be the GO!

mocchi

28-12-2009, 10:16 AM

vinnY

28-12-2009, 10:23 AM

heavy duty = 14ga
super heavy duty = 12ga

02gzm

28-12-2009, 11:08 AM

Limbo

28-12-2009, 12:02 PM

wouldn't it be cheaper to get HIDs? less fuss also.

I had 100w bulbs in my car before i got HIDs and they were fine.
I did though see some people have burnt plugs & the headlight housing burns.

That's why i opted for HIDs. 35w HIDs are as bright as 100w normal bulbs.
If you want super bright 55w HIDs are available.

Everything though is supose to be for offroad use only, when it becomes higher than normal lighting

02gzm

28-12-2009, 12:09 PM

^^ Yea it would be. Using higher wattage bulbs is what was used in offroading before HID's became incredibly cheap. Just wait till LED's take off in the next year ;)

Limbo

28-12-2009, 12:19 PM

lumex type bulbs are even better! less power and brighter yet!

i've got them in my torches and they blitz the LED ones

02gzm

28-12-2009, 12:48 PM

Lumex is a company :P They use the same superbright LED technology that other companies are starting to use. But yes, they did pick up the ball quite early on the bigger LED's.

I was talking about automotive LED's. They can put out more than double the light output of HID's. Just too expensive for your average car these days though. But in a year you'll see them as OEM equipment in basically everything. Some of the large prestige car manufacturers use them already. Take Audi R8's as an example. The entire headlight uses LED's.
http://img.worldcarfans.com/2007/8/medium/2070813.004.1M.jpg

HID's have reached their peak. They cannot evolve into anything better. LED's are the lighting of the future.

NightKids

28-12-2009, 01:13 PM

Yeah I've seen my friends HID lights in halogen housing and the light just scatters everywhere and blind people! Plus I didn't wanna attract any attention with the cops and quite enjoying the challenge of getting a tough halogen setup...

Although I have seen a HID kit where the top of the bulb has a metal cover that minimizes glare..

dahondr98

28-12-2009, 10:29 PM

Just so you know, so you don't have to run all over the place getting bits and pieces, Ashdown-Ingram stocks all the auto electrical parts you'll need. There's 8 branches in Vic listed here. (http://www.ashdown-ingram.com.au/CA2571B7001714EB/page/Branch+Locations-Victoria?OpenDocument&1=08-Branch+Locations~&2=09-Victoria~&3=~)

Use a resistor relay instead of the diode relay too. Less chance of it blowing ;)
GW on the writeup dahondr98 :thumbsup:

Thanks. The reason I prefer diode relays is because they clamp the back-emf voltage spikes from the relay coil to zero, whereas resistor relays just reduce it. They are both safe for car electronics, it's just that one's a bit safer. And what do you know, Ashdown-Ingram have got a site in Hobart, too, in the old Philips warehouse. I'll have to go and check them out - it's only a 5 minute drive away, or a 30 minute walk.

dahondr98

28-12-2009, 10:43 PM

Wow thanks for the info! I reckon you really should be in Melbourne, your like the relay expert...

Yes, I used to work almost exclusively in relay circuits, with some electronics and computerisation, about 30 years ago, so I had to know something about them.

I have found a pretty decent looking kit which i want to run past you as it may save me a lot of time and headache. If you approve this kit then I'll buy it straight away as I'm not a very technical person at all! This kit seems pretty simple to hook up so let me know what you think...

http://www.suvlights.com/product_info.php?products_id=112

It's OK, although they don't state if the relays are diode- or resistor-protected, and so safe with car electronics. Both the ARB and Piranha use good quality relays that are safe with car electronics. It's certainly cheap, so chances are it's made in some sweatshop somewhere - probably Mexico - they won't be paying Australian labour costs to get them made, which accounts for the price difference. The wire gauge is OK, and should easily handle up to 100W bulbs. It won't perform as well as the Piranha, which uses 10AWG wire, or probably the ARB one (I'm not sure what wire the ARB one uses, probably 5mm/12AWG or maybe even 4mm/14AWG, but as I haven't seen one, I'm guessing. I just know that 4WD forums have mentioned that the ARB one uses slightly thinner wire.)

Why don't you go around to the local ARB dealer, and ask him what the best price he can do it for is? Ask if they give a cash discount - you'll be surprised how much you can sometimes save if you ask for a cash discount. Remember, most prices are based on people paying by credit card, so if you pay by cash, they get their money sooner, and with no credit card fees, so they'll usually give a cash discount. (Yes, I have a tertiary finance qualification, too!:) )

After you've added the cost of postage from the USA on (you have to log in to their site to check what it is, which makes me guess it's a fair bit more than the AUD$13.50 it costs if you're in the USA - rallylights wanted about AUD$95 for postage for their loom) to the AUD$56 it costs for the loom, I'd guess that an ARB loom with a discount should be more than competitive for price, and you support a Victorian company and factory. Check http://www.arb.com.au for nearby dealers. Isn't Richmond in Melbourne? Some of the other Vic sites might be close, too - as I don't live in Melbourne, and have been known to get lost in the city centre in the dark,:eek: I don't know all the suburbs, although my sister used to live there a few years ago.

02gzm

28-12-2009, 11:11 PM

Thanks. The reason I prefer diode relays is because they clamp the back-emf voltage spikes from the relay coil to zero, whereas resistor relays just reduce it. They are both safe for car electronics, it's just that one's a bit safer. And what do you know, Ashdown-Ingram have got a site in Hobart, too, in the old Philips warehouse. I'll have to go and check them out - it's only a 5 minute drive away, or a 30 minute walk.

If Hobart don't have stock on something you want then Launceston probably will. If so, they can just transfer it over. ;)

NightKids

29-12-2009, 12:50 AM

Yes, I used to work almost exclusively in relay circuits, with some electronics and computerisation, about 30 years ago, so I had to know something about them.

It's OK, although they don't state if the relays are diode- or resistor-protected, and so safe with car electronics. Both the ARB and Piranha use good quality relays that are safe with car electronics. It's certainly cheap, so chances are it's made in some sweatshop somewhere - probably Mexico - they won't be paying Australian labour costs to get them made, which accounts for the price difference. The wire gauge is OK, and should easily handle up to 100W bulbs. It won't perform as well as the Piranha, which uses 10AWG wire, or probably the ARB one (I'm not sure what wire the ARB one uses, probably 5mm/12AWG or maybe even 4mm/14AWG, but as I haven't seen one, I'm guessing. I just know that 4WD forums have mentioned that the ARB one uses slightly thinner wire.)

Why don't you go around to the local ARB dealer, and ask him what the best price he can do it for is? Ask if they give a cash discount - you'll be surprised how much you can sometimes save if you ask for a cash discount. Remember, most prices are based on people paying by credit card, so if you pay by cash, they get their money sooner, and with no credit card fees, so they'll usually give a cash discount. (Yes, I have a tertiary finance qualification, too!:) )

After you've added the cost of postage from the USA on (you have to log in to their site to check what it is, which makes me guess it's a fair bit more than the AUD$13.50 it costs if you're in the USA - rallylights wanted about AUD$95 for postage for their loom) to the AUD$56 it costs for the loom, I'd guess that an ARB loom with a discount should be more than competitive for price, and you support a Victorian company and factory. Check http://www.arb.com.au for nearby dealers. Isn't Richmond in Melbourne? Some of the other Vic sites might be close, too - as I don't live in Melbourne, and have been known to get lost in the city centre in the dark,:eek: I don't know all the suburbs, although my sister used to live there a few years ago.

I'm doing to email them and ask if they are a diode one. If not I'll go to ARB and get some prices from them. The postage is only $15 for this harness which is ridiculously cheap compared to other US sites. If it's diode then I'll most likely pick this up. I'm looking to run the 85/80w Osram Hyper bulb as it'll give me 1750 lumens as compared to 1300 for the 65w version. I found out that my headlights are glass so it should have no melting issues, although what about the rubber grommet?

Just checked the ARB site and there seems to be no harness products listed on the site...

Limbo

29-12-2009, 04:44 AM

u know if you go brighter with halegons/leds/HIDs you will still get pulled over.

mocchi

29-12-2009, 07:51 AM

NightKids

29-12-2009, 01:08 PM

u know if you go brighter with halegons/leds/HIDs you will still get pulled over.

The aftermarket halogens are only 1700 lumens whereas HID would be about 3000 lumens. Plus the blue/white light would attract way more attention I rkn.

VT3C

29-12-2009, 02:55 PM

u can get a wiring upgrade kit from ARB for about $60 I think includes everything you need.. can be used on H4 headlights also - was going to fit to my EG but I stopped working there LOL..

mocchi

29-12-2009, 03:42 PM

u can get a wiring upgrade kit from ARB for about $60 I think includes everything you need.. can be used on H4 headlights also - was going to fit to my EG but I stopped working there LOL..

$60? youre joking!! lol i thought theyre abt 120-150

NightKids

29-12-2009, 05:04 PM

$60 seems awfully cheap! If that's the case then I'd might as well buy local...

I emailed suvlights to ask them whether it runs a diode or resistor relay and the guy just said both? And it'll fit on all cars... Don't think this guy knows what his talking about??

dahondr98

30-12-2009, 02:43 AM

when talking diameter as in 6mm automotive wire, is that total diameter(wire + insulation) or just wire diameter?
also, i've read single core wires are meant for stable environment, not cars as they vibrate alot thus use insulated strands of wire (can flex better).

It means the wire, plus the insulation - the diameter of the outside of the insulation. They are multi-strand cables - 65 strands of 0.3 mm copper.

where can we find 10awg wire lol. ebay sells per 50m roll.

Here you are - red and black 10AWG (6mm) wire, Qld seller, $2.50 per metre, sold by the metre:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/DUAL-BATTERY-ANDERSON-PLUG-WIRE-6MM-SINGLE-CORE-RED_W0QQitemZ310184163799QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Car _Parts_Accessories?hash=item48386ab9d7

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/DUAL-BATTERY-ANDERSON-PLUG-WIRE-6MM-SINGLE-CORE-BLACK_W0QQitemZ310157155970QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_C ar_Parts_Accessories?hash=item4836ce9e82

jaycar only got 8awg wire (DC power cable)
total diameter 6.5mm
wire diameter 4.05mm
wh-3060

Yes - you can use it, but it's a bit too thick. The same wire is also sold at Altronics and DSE. Jaycar and DSE also sell 12AWG (5mm) wire - see one of my posts above for the catalogue numbers.

dahondr98

30-12-2009, 02:51 AM

I'm doing to email them and ask if they are a diode one. If not I'll go to ARB and get some prices from them. The postage is only $15 for this harness which is ridiculously cheap compared to other US sites. If it's diode then I'll most likely pick this up. I'm looking to run the 85/80w Osram Hyper bulb as it'll give me 1750 lumens as compared to 1300 for the 65w version. I found out that my headlights are glass so it should have no melting issues, although what about the rubber grommet?

You shouldn't have any problems with the rubber grommet, if you mean the rubber surround sealing off the back of the globe and headlight. It's designed to handle the heat from the headlight.

Just checked the ARB site and there seems to be no harness products listed on the site...

http://www.arb.com.au/products/ipf-lights-accessories/ipf-spares-accessories/

Unfortunately you can't expand the pics on the website - the printed catalogue shows them better. You can order a catalogue off them for free on the website (they also supply a list of prices to your email), or pick one up at the closest ARB store.

NightKids

30-12-2009, 02:27 PM

mocchi

30-12-2009, 05:06 PM

dahondr98

30-12-2009, 10:04 PM

I rang up arb and they said their kit costs around $150 so therefore i was forced to get the suvlight kit because including the Osram 80w bulbs is only $15 US postage. Thanks for the help I'll let you know how I go and will post up some pics also.

Well, if you turn up, with the cash in hand, and ask ARB how much for cash, they are almost certain to give you a cash discount. They won't over the phone! Would you? Remember, you're also supporting local jobs, not Mexican sweat shops.

NightKids

31-12-2009, 02:09 AM

Yeah i'm trying to dahondr, it's hard cause there's a huge price difference and even when I asked if he could do any better with cash he said he couldn't and that their prices were set. If they say that over the phone then I'm not really gonna waste my time and drive there to ask them again.

I think there's a dark cloud over these H4 harnesses because a lot of the workers don't really know what they're talking about. Like they can't really tell you the specifics of the product.

02gzm

31-12-2009, 06:25 PM

^^ True because with the prices of HID's these days they really don't sell them that often.

Plus it's always a different story when you're in someones face ;)

NightKids

16-01-2010, 12:22 AM

Hey guys, my H4 Heavy duty kit just came in the mail and I need some help. I'm not 100% sure where to plug the plugs. I'll start with my understanding & you can let me know if it's correct.

(A) Goes to the black terminal on the battery
(B) Goes to the positive (red) terminal on the battery
(C) I think it's just a fuse holder thing, do nothing with it
(D) Another thing I don't know what it is, do nothing
(E) The relays, just mount them somewhere safe on the car
(F) Right hand side plug that goes into the right bulb
(G) Left hand side plug that goes to the left bulb
(H) Now this is what's really confusing me, this male adapter. I can't find anywhere that fits this in my EG...??? Plz help.

http://img2.pict.com/53/b9/fd/2513689/0/harness.jpg

Can you guys confirm where (H) goes and if I'm correct so far?

Another question is how come there's nothing that goes into the switch or something, how does it know to turn on when I turn the lights on in the car?

And also from some diagrams I see on other sides, a lot of the bulbs have another ground wire coming out of them, whereas I don't think mine does. Is this correct?

Thanks in advance

vinnY

16-01-2010, 12:28 AM

look at h, does it look like the rear of the lightbulb you just pulled out?

mystery solved ;)

NightKids

16-01-2010, 12:31 AM

You mean the halogen bulb? Yeah it looks exactly the same, but where do I plug (H)? Sorry still don't get it..

Cause the end of the bulb goes to the female connector yeah?

vinnY

16-01-2010, 12:35 AM

okay i'll play along..

if the stock harness controlled the bulb, and h looks exactly like the rear of your bulb
how do you think the harness is controlled?
me thinks someone needs some sleep :p

NightKids

16-01-2010, 12:42 AM

OK let me get this straight... so the stock harness goes into the male connector (H).

Then the female connector goes back into the bulb? Am I correct?

Geez if this is correct then I'm awfully confused! Cause I was under the assumption that none of my factory wiring would be reused apart from the switches or something! Cause that factory wire is thin as, I think 18ga or something, wouldn't that affect the performance?

dahondr98

16-01-2010, 03:27 AM

Geez, don't they supply instructions? Piranha and ARB do!:)

OK, here's what to do. You unplug the existing H4 female connectors that plug into the back of the H4 headlight bulbs on your car. Then, plug H on the new harness plugs into one of the existing headlight female connectors. Plugs F and G plug into the headlight bulbs, in place of the old connectors.

E is the two relays and their plug in sockets from the harness – just mount them somewhere handy in the engine bay, between the battery and the nearest headlight, using existing bolts if there are any handy, or drill some new holes, say on the side of the engine bay, and use some self-tappers, complete with shakeproof and flat washers, to hold them on.

D – I can’t see clearly what it is, but I’d guess two blade fuses in fuse holders, seeing it’s in the wiring from the battery. They should be mounted somewhere, if there’s a mounting bracket on them, like the relays – if not, get some cable ties, and tie them to some existing cable looms in the engine bay, or other solidly mounted objects, to prevent them moving around too much. Cable ties are widely available from hardware stores (eg Bunnings, Mitre 10), car accessory stores (eg Repco) or electronic suppliers (eg Dick Smith, Jaycar).

B should have a ring terminal on it (it’s hard to see – a bit small in the photo!), which should be connected to the positive battery terminal, using the bolt on the battery terminal clamp. Disconnect the battery earth (negative) terminal first, before doing that.

A is the earth wire for the headlights – it should also have a ring terminal on it, and it can be mounted under the bolt for the earth (negative) terminal on the battery, or under an existing bolt to the metal in the engine bay, although you should make sure there’s no paint there, to make a good earth. There are usually also several good existing electrical earth bolts in the engine bay – for instance, where the engine is earthed to the body, and where the battery earth cable mounts to the body.

Use cable ties to anchor the new wiring to existing wiring looms in the engine bay, to prevent it moving around too much. About every 30cm or so, use a cable tie to hold it in place.

That’s it - connect the battery up, and check that the headlights work on low and high beam. You should hear clicks as the low and high beam relays turn on, when you go from low to high beam and vice versa.

You can always compare results, by just connecting up the new wiring to one headlight. Then turn the headlights on at night, and cover each light in turn, and you should see a difference in brightness between the two headlights – the one with the new wiring should be quite a bit brighter. Make sure that the plug which isn’t used, from the old headlight wiring, doesn’t short to anything – it’s probably advisable to use a bit of electrical tape to insulate it, and prevent it from earthing to any metal. You could also tape it to the wiring loom, to prevent it moving around too much, but make sure it’s still in place, so you can pull the new harness out, and transfer it to your next car, or return the wiring to normal if one of the fuses blows, and you haven't got a spare, and you're miles from home, in the dark....

It doesn’t matter that your existing wiring is thin – all it will be used for is to switch on the relays. The relays only take a few milliamps of current (about 200mA, I’d guess) to operate, and then when operated, they switch the current through high current rated relay contacts, via your new thick wire in the new harness, to the headlights, via the new plugs F and G. The headlights draw current of about 5A (5000mA!) each on high beam (60W high beams), so the old wiring can easily handle the current from the relays.

If there are any other wires going to the headlights, it will most likely be for the park lights – just leave them as is – you don’t need to upgrade the wiring for them, as they are probably only about 5 watts.

That's it - I'm off to bed.:sleep: I just got sidetracked because I was waiting for an upgrade of my photo editing program to download off the manufacturer's website, and it was downloading very slowly, so I thought I'd have a look at the forum.

02gzm

16-01-2010, 11:05 AM

:arrowu: This is exactly right.

To shorten it down into layman terms. You've effectively replaced the bulbs with electronic switches that handle the bigger wiring/amperage.

Think of it like having a midget as a messenger. You tell the midget (original switch + wiring) to run over and tell the big muscle-bound dude (relay) to start pulling the big heavy weight (larger current draw on bigger new wiring). This stops the midget from breaking his back (burning out the original wiring).

:D

NightKids

16-01-2010, 05:11 PM

02gzm

16-01-2010, 05:28 PM

This was at idle yea? That's fine, your alternator should be charging at around 14.5V with no load

NightKids

16-01-2010, 06:00 PM

11.8V or 12.6V are idle and 14V Is with car running. I thought the voltage was a bit high and the harness wouldn't make much difference.

riruiz_88

16-01-2010, 06:13 PM

thats perfect man. the harness is able to handle it, cause it is tested from factory for an insulation breakdown of 30V (im quite sure). reason being is because as the alternator is spinning at a faster rate while running (not idle) it is able to to create a jump in voltage.

sorry if its not clear, its easiest i can explain it.

NightKids

16-01-2010, 06:24 PM

Oh ok I was expecting lower voltage so then after I install the aftermarket relay, I can see the increase.

riruiz_88

16-01-2010, 06:29 PM

the relay wouldnt really affect the voltage.

i must say that the kit is very different to what i would have imagined. i for one dont like the way the kit has to be to attached to the battery. would look much neater if the kit would go to the fuse box instead. but i do hope it is working out for you man.

02gzm

16-01-2010, 06:36 PM

It's because they're pulling current directly from the battery now instead of running through metres of wiring. Your alternator supplies voltage at slightly above 12V to compensate for the 12V that the battery is supplying the rest of the car. This makes sure there is more power going in than coming out so the battery doesn't go flat.

If you wanna check your alternators condition while you're in fix-it mode, turn the high beams on, the fan on, rev the car to 2000rpm and check the voltage at the battery. If it's over 12.5V with all that load then you're car is handling it fine ;)

dahondr98

16-01-2010, 09:26 PM

I just tested the voltage from the headlight (with factory wiring) socket and I got 11.9V and 12.6V. Then i tested it with the engine on and both sockets came back with 14V. is this correct? The voltage seems too high for factory harness. Am I measuring it wrong?

Were the headlights on? If they weren't, you'll just get the battery voltage with the engine off, or the alternator voltage with the engine on. To test for voltage drop, you need to turn the headlights on, and then compare the difference between the voltage at the plug with that directly across the battery. There will be no voltage drop if the headlights aren't on, as they won't be drawing current.

riruiz_88

17-01-2010, 08:37 AM

you can still get voltage even with the headlights off, should get battery voltage. but since he said he is getting 14V, the engine would be on.

NightKids

17-01-2010, 04:17 PM

OK I popped the relay and overwattage bulbs in last night. I'm not sure if the relay really did much cause I couldn't even tell the difference. After I put in the overwattage bulbs and turned them on, I was quite dissapointed as well.

I was driving along the street with the street lights on & feeling pretty down that I wasted $100. Then I turned into a dark side street and that's when things got interesting. The light was so good! Everything was just so much clearer than before it was amazing! These 100/80 Osram bulbs are rated around 1700 lumens on low beams and it looked the goods. I compared it to a Corolla with Vision Plus (H7 bulb base) which should have been rated around 1500-1600 lumens and my lights were indeed brighter.

Can't wait to take this to the mountains or something in the rain. Pictures can be supplied if requested.

P.S. Tried to give you all rep points but doesn't seem to work here in the noob forum?

dahondr98

17-01-2010, 09:50 PM

NightKids

17-01-2010, 09:59 PM

Glad you noticed some difference. It's sometimes hard to notice any difference in brightly lit areas, but you definitely should be able to get some benefit from the new loom, even with old globes. On a different note, halogen globes do gradually get duller over time, so it pays to replace them after a few years of use with new ones. No, I don't work for Philips or Osram, or anywhere that sells globes.:D

Thanks you've been a great help. Your knowledge on harnesses and halogens is kinda freaky. I reckon I've got prob the best halogen bulb for the H4 (Osram Rallye) so don't know what I'll buy next. Prob the Philips NightGuide which looks kinda cool with the 3 colours. LOL

02gzm

17-01-2010, 10:43 PM

Unfortunately we don't get Nightguide's over here so you'd have to buy them off ebay if you wanted them. They are standard wattage though. Check out Philips Essential Vision bulbs now that you have the upgraded wiring. They're 100/90w in the H4's while Osram Rallye H4's are only 70/65w. Plus you can get them from any auto store.

You'll definitely notice the difference then ;)

NightKids

17-01-2010, 10:45 PM

Yeah I was thinking of getting Essential Vision but the thing is I don't know where to get them from? There's not much info available on the internet as well in regards to lumen output, etc. Do you reckon they are the renamed Philips Rally? Because they seem to share the same specs.

02gzm

17-01-2010, 11:09 PM

They are basically just high wattage Blue Visions.

Go to http://www.philipslighting.com.au/bulbs.html
Click on headlight upgrades and then Essential Vision. Has all the details you need there.
Part number is 12569EVB1 for the H4's. And I know Repco can get them. Just have to ask them to order the bulbs in if there aren't any in stock.
They come in single blister packs so you'll need to order 2 if you wanna get them.

dahondr98

17-01-2010, 11:14 PM

The Australian company Narva have 100/90W bulbs available - you should be able to buy them from any car accessory place (Repco, Bursons, Autobarn etc). http://www.narva.com.au/products/browse/h4 Chances are they are European-made, by either Narva Germany (where Narva Aus got the name from), Philips or Osram, as all of their products are made for them by OEM manufacturers. I bought some of their "Plus 30" globes about 10 years ago, and they were Philips branded ones in Narva packaging.

Narva also have 130/90W bulbs available, but don't be tempted - they get so hot that they don't last long, and they also tend to burn the headlight reflectors. That's the reason that the big name lighting brands such as Hella, Cibie, Osram and Philips don't offer anything more than 100W bulbs. Chances are the 130W globes are made in Asia.

NightKids

18-01-2010, 08:07 AM

Just rang up Repco & they said they don't stock Philips. They only sell Narva.

Damn it, i might have to get in contact with the invisionsales site and see if they can get them. If they aren't too expensive I'll try the essential visions out & see how they are. They seem to be Philips Rally but with a light blue coating.

Yeah I heard that Narva are just rebranded Philips and I definately wouldn't touch anything over 100W as i'm not 100% sure my relay can handle it.

02gzm

18-01-2010, 04:39 PM

Go visit an Ashdown-Ingram branch. They're a national Philips distributor.
I left work early today but there should be stock floating around somewhere. If not, it's only a few days away.

NightKids

18-01-2010, 05:16 PM

Yeah i thought it was a bit weird that they didn't have Philips. Maybe they get paid more to sell Narva?

Can you get the price for me? I might just order it off you if the price is good...

02gzm

18-01-2010, 07:11 PM

Won't be at work till thursday so I'll have a look then. Will be out and about all day 2morrow.

dahondr98

18-01-2010, 07:58 PM

Lol that's a load of crap. They just didn't wanna order them. Go visit an Ashdown-Ingram branch.

Don't Ashdown also own Repco?:D

Oh no - as you were - I just looked it up, and it's the other way around. Repco Corp own Ashdown-Ingram, Motospecs, Repco, and McLeod Accessories.

Yeah I heard that Narva are just rebranded Philips and I definately wouldn't touch anything over 100W as i'm not 100% sure my relay can handle it.

Yeah - it's not just Philips they sell. Basically Narva don't make a lot of their stuff, as they're mainly just a distributor - all their brands are made for them on an OEM basis by other manufacturers. For instance, their Narva Ultima driving and fog lights are made by the Swedish company NBB, and I've seen the same lights branded as Volvo, Land Rover, Jeep, Night Vision and Britax. My brother in law has a set of Narva Ultima 160/115 driving lights, and I have the exact same driving lights, with Ashdown's (before Repco bought them and merged them with Ingram) Night Vision brand on them, and a set of the same type fog lights, with Ashdown's Britax brand name on them! They all also have the NBB brand on them, because that's who makes them.

NightKids

18-01-2010, 08:24 PM

Thanks a lot hopefully u got some in stock... but why do I have a feeling they're gonna be pretty expensive..

02gzm

18-01-2010, 10:08 PM

Don't Ashdown also own Repco?:D

Oh no - as you were - I just looked it up, and it's the other way around. Repco Corp own Ashdown-Ingram, Motospecs, Repco, and McLeod Accessories.

Was renamed to the Exego Group not too long ago to avoid confusion between the group name and Repco on their own ;)

dahondr98

18-01-2010, 10:53 PM

... but why do I have a feeling they're gonna be pretty expensive..

Shouldn't be - somewhere around $20-25 for a pair would be about the going price for them. They won't be as expensive as the "Plus" globes (eg Philips Xtreme +80), because they haven't had to reesearch how to get extra brightness out of a standard power globe - they've just increased the power input, which makes them brighter and hotter automatically.

NightKids

20-01-2010, 08:53 PM

dahondr98

21-01-2010, 02:01 PM

Hmm i dunno that seems way too cheap. Cause Vision plus and blue vision is already more than that. These are specialised 'off road' bulbs as wel... well we'll see what happens when 02gzm goes back to work.

Go to this link: https://rsp-secure.com/waggawagga/ and in the part number box at the top left, paste one of these numbers in: 48901 or 48901BL , and press Go. They are the numbers for the Narva 100/90W H4 bulbs, and the prices are $8.61 or $9.27, for either one boxed, or one blister packed globe. Or at another seller http://www.eziautoparts.com.au/premium-halogen-h4-globe-12v-100-90w-48901bl-.html , the price is $12.25 per globe. While these are the Narva globes, the Philips or Osram ones should be in the same price range, and chances are one of those brands supplies Narva anyway. Even Supercheap Auto sells their own brand bulbs for $14.98 http://www.getprice.com.au/SCA-Halogen-Globe-12V-100-90W-P43t-Gpnc_646--41505491.htm .Then toddle off down to Ashdown-Ingram, tell them 02gzm sent you ("Who?"), and slap down $30 on the counter. You should get some change, hopefully.

There are also plenty of sellers on Ebay, selling various 100/90W bulbs, all with special colours (eg Superwhite) and at various prices, but out of 8 Aussie sellers, 7 are selling a pair of globes for less than $30. There aren't any big name brands, unfortunately, so I suggest you go to your local auto store and get some for a reasonable price, with a good brand on the package.:D

The Vision Plus and Blue Vision bulbs are specialist bulbs, not just standard 100/90W bulbs, so they cost more - that compensates Philips for the research they put into making bulbs that are 50% brighter than standard 60/55W bulbs, as the Vision Plus bulbs are, and the better components (eg halogen gases or blue coatings) that they put in them. In general, the premium bulbs have a higher pressure of gas in them, so you are getting more for the extra money, whereas they don't have to worry about that with high wattage bulbs, as rally drivers have been using them for years, and the research was done many years ago.

02gzm

21-01-2010, 07:35 PM

Checked the price at work today. The Essential Visions are the same price as Extremes. Philips Rally's are roughly the same price as the Narva 100/90W equivalents though.

The Essential Visions are the same whiter colour as Blue visions. And both of the cheaper ones are your normal colour ranges so will look a bit more yellow.

I'd probably go for the ebay bulbs as mentioned above if you wanted the whiter colour as it's going to save you a lot of money.

NightKids

21-01-2010, 08:59 PM

Yeah so what's the price on the essential visions? I've always bought brand named bulbs cause more money have been put into research and developement. Don't really trust no-name bulbs...

From the sounds of things they are prob a lot more expensive than $25-$30? Have any of you guys tried IPF bulbs? The Jeep drivers swear by them & they cost an arm & a leg!

02gzm

21-01-2010, 09:06 PM

Around $90. Could get 3 cheaper branded sets for that much. Which combined would probably last longer.

NightKids

21-01-2010, 09:08 PM

Holy smokes! $90!! Man that's really expensive.

I quite like the bulbs but damn that's dear... I wonder where I can get em' cheaper cause they seem like a bulb that's only available from Australia.

dahondr98

22-01-2010, 01:57 AM

IPF globes never seem to live up to their hype, and like PIAA globes, are overpriced. Both Japanese companies never actually seem to back up their claims with test data, unfortunately. If you'd just spent $150 on a pair of IPF Fatboy globes, are you going to admit you were ripped off? Didn't think so! You'll tell everyone how good they are.:rolleyes:

But, as an ARB shareholder, I'm quite happy for you to buy them. Great globes, aren't they? Just excuse me while I take this fat wallet out of my back pocket - I almost overbalanced off my chair.:)

NightKids

22-01-2010, 09:23 AM

Haha yeh they do seem a bit overpriced. That HIR style bulb is just awesome though! Wonder what light output the Fatboy x4 would put out against my Osram 100/80s?

It seems as though u own a 4WD on the side cause your knowledge is pretty 4WD based.

NightKids

23-01-2010, 04:37 AM

The godfather of automotive lighting (Daniel Stern) has expressed his opinions about the IPF bulbs when I asked him. His quite disgusted it seems although I only half understand what his talking about. Maybe dhondr98 will understand this better....

For reference, the IPF lamps are not E-code headlamps. There is an uppercase E in a circle on the lens, but it's only one third of an actualECE type approval mark. An ECE type approval mark has approval numbers and country codes and regulation amendment sequence codesinside and outside the circle. This isn't just pedantic babble about what markings have to be on the lens; IPF never submitted these headlamps fortype approval testing, so all you can go on is IPF's say-so that they'rephotometrically acceptable. That might or might not be good enough for you-- it isn't for me (and if IPF lacks the confidence in their lamp to put it through real 3rd-party tests, I don't really feel like dropping $350 to see if they would meet the minimum ECE photometric requirements...or the US SAE/DOT photometrics, for that matter.) I find it kind of slimy that IPF put half an E-code mark on their lens, in an obvious effort to trickpeople into thinking they're ECE approved. How many people know what areal E-mark looks like vs. a phake? If they didn't want to (or couldn't)get them type approved, why put even part of the mark on the lens...? What's $350 to a company the size of IPF...? It's pocket change. This is the kind of question that arises in my mind when I see silly tricks like this. That's with IPF's headlamps; their bulbs are likewise marketed in a less than forthright manner. IPF doesn't lie nearly as constantly or brazenly as PIAA does, but IPFstill leans more heavily on hype than science. IPF's "X51 Fatboy" H4 bulb,a 60/80w bulb (sixty over eighty, 60w high beam and 80w low beam) isreasonably well made, but unfortunately it's largely a scam. They'verevved up their hype machine with all kinds of meaningless gobbledy****about this bulb, e.g. "190w optical effect on low beam, 150w opticaleffect on high beam". There is no such thing as "optical effect", and abulb's wattage is only a measure of its electric power consumption, NO**** light output. Also, the large size of the glass on the "Fatboy" bulbis visually impressive, and it entices lots of people into shelling out$70 for a set of these bulbs, but in fact, the *smaller* the glass tube ofa halogen lamp, the better its performance! That's because performance ofa tungsten-halogen bulb is directly linked to bulb wall temperature, andthe closer the bulb wall is to the filament, the higher the bulb walltemperature. Very simple. So here again, we have handwaving and marketeering instead of science and facts. It's not a mystery why they do this (it makes the cash register ring) but I find it dishonest and disagreeable.

dahondr98

03-02-2010, 05:39 PM

Haha yeh they do seem a bit overpriced. That HIR style bulb is just awesome though! Wonder what light output the Fatboy x4 would put out against my Osram 100/80s?

Sorry - just got back after being away. They are extremely overpriced. I don't think you need to have too many worries about how bright they are - I think your globes should be brighter - the Japanese seem to think boasting boosts sales. They could be right, but I doubt their claims are accurate (eg Fatboy 80W low beam as bright as a normal 190W globe - in their imagination, I think). On the other hand HIR globes were originally developed by one of the two big boys in car lighting, General Electric (owner of Osram), and the HIR bulbs work well, and are more efficient than normal globes.

It seems as though u own a 4WD on the side cause your knowledge is pretty 4WD based.

Used to own a Land Rover, but currently don't. The 4WD market is usually a good place to get info on improving car lights, because plenty of 4WD owners take their vehicles well away from street lights, where good lighting is a must, due to large animals (roos, cattle, camels etc) wandering around near roads at night. I used to find that well away from towns at night, there would be heaps of animals (mainly wallabies, possums & wombats here in Tassie), and as you got within about 5 km of town, they would suddenly almost disappear. I have a relative who worked in an outlying suburb of Hobart (Kingston), and every morning on the way to work she'd see a council truck on the 100km/h expressway to Kingston, with a council employee collecting the roadkill from the night before!

The godfather of automotive lighting (Daniel Stern) has expressed his opinions about the IPF bulbs when I asked him. His quite disgusted it seems although I only half understand what his talking about. Maybe dhondr98 will understand this better....

Yes, Daniel Stern knows what he's talking about. He's saying that the Fatboy bulbs aren't approved for use in Europe, so don't have the E code on their bulbs. He's also saying, that like PIAA, they like talking BS, in order to confuse people into thinking they know what they are talking about.