Bang for your bucks – DC5R mods

[TODA AU]

Low budget – Std ECU
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy-duty clutch
#3 – Lower final gear (EG: ATS)
#4 – Intake (Modify stock air box, Injen or Mugen + 2mm oversize throttle. (65mm)
#5 – Header + cat-back exhaust system (TODA S2000 exhaust now available)
#6 – Spec A2 camshafts / valve springs / fuel pressure regulator (Increase fuel pressure to 4.6k)
148~152kw

Medium budget – Std ECU
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy duty clutch
#3 – Lower final gear (E.g.: ATS)
#4 – Intake (Modify stock air box, Injen or Mugen + 2mm oversize throttle. (65mm)
#5 – Header + cat + cat-back system
#6 – Spec A2 camshafts / valve springs / adjustable cam pulleys / 2.2L stroker kit (basic) / fuel pressure regulator (Increase fuel pressure to 4.6k)
or
TODA 2.2L crate engine (as above)


High budget – best power delivery
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy duty clutch
#3 – Lower final gear (E.g.: ATS)
#4 – Intake (Modify stock air box, Injen or Mugen + 2mm oversize throttle. (65mm)
#5 – Header + cat-back system
#6 – Ported head / Spec A2 camshafts / valve springs / adjustable cam pulleys / 2.2L stroker kit (with rods) / fuel pressure regulator (Increase fuel pressure to 4.6k) / ECU / Dyno tuning
or
TODA 2.2L crate engine (as above)

Maximum effort (extreme budget)
#1 – Lightweight flywheel (Consider super single or twin plate carbon)
#2 – Heavy-duty clutch
#3 – Lower final gear
#4 – Intake (Modify stock air box, Injen or Mugen + 2mm oversize throttle. (65mm)
#5 – Header + cat-back system
#6 – Ported head / Spec B, C camshafts / valve springs/ Titanium retainers / shaved rocker arms / adjustable cam pulleys/ fuel pump / 2.4L stroker kit / fuel pressure regulator / injectors / ECU / dyno tuning.

Race engine - Improved production car / drag
TODA 2.4L crate engine (As used in ASM car)
Includes quad throttles / dry sump / exhaust manifold / Tuning data for Motec M800
300hp – guaranteed

Forced induction
Supercharged… (Ok, but inferior in every way to turbo)
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy duty clutch
#3 – Vortech / Comtech supercharger kit
#4 – Injectors / Fuel pump / fuel pressure regulator – linear / ECU (Not E-manage or piggy back)
#5 – Header + cat back system
#6 – Spec A2,B,C camshafts / valve springs / adjustable cam pulleys / 2.2L stroker kit (Turbo with rods)

Turbocharged. (Maximum effort)
#1 – Twin plate clutch
#2 – Heavy duty gear set & upgraded diff
#3 – Custom turbo kit *
#4 – Injectors / Fuel pump / fuel pressure regulator – linear / ECU (Not E-manage or piggy back)
#5 – Cat + cat back system
#6 – Spec A2,B,C camshafts / valve springs / adjustable cam pulleys / 2.2L stroker kit (Turbo with rods)
or
TODA 2.2L turbo crate engine.

*NB: Turbo shouldn’t be too small. This will cause excessive thermal stress on engine.
Bolt-on turbo to std engine, use 450hp turbo minimum.
Eg: HKS 3037S
Std engine will produce 190rwkw @ 6psi with correct set-up
NB: Some popular intakes are not as good as they appear. (Chose carefully)
High compression & low compression forged pistons are available in both 2.0L, 2.2L.
Forged NiCr connecting rods are also available for both 2.0L & 2.2L
Rear diff can present problems after fitting heavy duty clutch.
Hyper single clutches not recommended for daily drivers
Much work needs to be done to improve handling of vehicle.
High power outputs require stronger engine mounts.
Comment away...
Cheers

Adrian

By request,
Bang for your buck – DC5R
As with DC2, The DC5 is pretty fussy when it comes to mods that actually work…
On the race track… The following parts are must haves…
Oil cooler / low temp thermo fan switch…
If you can’t afford a good aftermarket radiator, at least fit a low temp thermostat.
Both are better…. Suspension & brakes also need to be addressed.
These aught to be addressed before you chase any extra HP.
As for getting more power, Honda’s are pretty fussy…
The actual parts combination is everything…
It must be put together exactly right… I can’t stress enough how important this is.
Once it’s put together right, it can be tuned… This also should be spot on…
The three work together, if 1 side has a weakness, power suffers…
Examples: Your pipe dream combination isn’t right… Power suffers…
Your mechanic doesn’t really know what he’s doing… Power suffers…
Even with perfect combination & assembly, with crap tuning… Power suffers...
NB: When fitting a heavy duty clutch to a DC5R, the front and rear engine mounts should be attended to.
That is fill them with sikaflex or use Mugen inserts / mounts.
This will avoid the inevitable knocking on the floor under the driver of the exhaust system.

Minimum budget – Just a bit quicker…
#1 – Intake - Never use a SRI of any brand – CAI only (Eg: INJEN / AEM / GruppeM)
#2 – Header + S2000 cat + cat-back system (60mm minimum)
Power output: 116 ~118kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics- shootout)


Low budget – Sleeper (Quiet & quick)
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy-duty clutch
#3 – Lower final drive
#4 – Modified stock airbox (Aka Hondata)
#5 – Header + cat + JDM DC5R or Mugen cat back
#6 – Hondata K100
Power output: 120 ~122kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics- shootout)

Low budget – never going to get an ECU
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy-duty clutch
#3 – Lower final drive
#4 – Intake - CAI's deliver superior results.(Eg: INJEN / AEM / GruppeM)
#5 – Header + S2000 cat + cat-back system (60mm minimum)
#6 – Spec A2 camshafts / valve springs / head gasket 0.3mm
Power output: 126 ~128kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics- shootout)
NB: Add K100 ECU for 144~146kw

Low / Med budget – Never going to crack the engine open.
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy-duty clutch
#3 – Lower final drive
#4 – Intake - CAI's deliver superior results.(Eg: INJEN / AEM / GruppeM)
#5 – Header + S2000 cat + cat-back system (60mm minimum)
#6 – ECU + Dyno tuning
Power output: 128 ~132kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics- shootout)

Medium budget – Hate noise & Stop @ ECU
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy duty clutch
#3 – Lower final drive
#4 – Intake – Modified stock / GruppeM or Pipe style CAI (NB: CAI loud @ WOT)
#5 – Stock exhaust system / or stock JDM DC5R exhaust system
#6 – Spec A2 camshafts / valve springs/ 0.3mm head gasket / ECU / dyno tuning / heavy duty engine mounts.
Power output: 136 ~138kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics – shootout)
8600rpm rev limit

Medium budget – Stop @ ECU
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy duty clutch
#3 – Lower final drive
#4 – Intake – CAI's deliver superior results.
#5 – Header + S2000 cat + cat-back system
#6 – Spec A2 camshafts / valve springs/ 0.3mm head gasket (Compression up from 11.0:1 to 11.4:1 / Titanium retainers / ported head / JDM intake manifold / ECU / dyno tuning / heavy duty engine mounts.
Power output: 148 ~150kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics – shootout)
9000rpm rev limit

High budget – best power delivery
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy-duty clutch
#3 – Lower final drive
#4 – JDM Intake manifold + CAI only
#5 – Header + S2000 cat + cat-back system
#6 – Ported head / Spec A2/B/C camshafts / valve springs/ Titanium retainers / adjustable cam gear - exhaust only / fuel pump / Forged pistons / Forged rods (For over 9000rpm) / injectors & fuel pressure regulator / ECU / dyno tuning / heavy duty engine mounts.
Nb: Additional head work that can/may need to be done includes shaving of rocker arms for cam clearance, re-shaping of valves, combustion chamber re-profiling.
Power output: 156+kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics – shootout)

Products soon to be released...
- TODA Racing K20A 2.2L stroker kit
- TODA Racing K20A quad throttle sports injection
- TODA Racing K20A iVtec "Race" camshafts
- TODA Racing DC5R cat-back exhaust systems (Available now)

Race engine (Drag / Improved production car or better)
#1 – Lightweight flywheel (Consider twin plate / carbon )
#2 – Heavy-duty clutch
#3 – Lower final drive / transmission cross gear kit
#4 – Quad throttle sports injection + fabricated CAI duct / flue
#5 – Header + cat-back system
#6 – Ported head / Spec A2/B/C camshafts / valve springs/ Titanium retainers / adjustable cam gear - exhaust only / fuel pump / Forged pistons / Forged rods (For over 9000rpm) / injectors & fuel pressure regulator / ECU / dyno tuning / heavy duty engine mounts / baffled sump.
Power output: 165+kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics – shootout)

Race engine – GTP production car (stock)
#1 – JDM flywheel & Exedy HD clutch
#2 – JDM exhaust manifold
#3 – JDM intake manifold
#4 – SPL (open) exhaust system
#5 – Std intake / stock air box – no modification permitted.
#6 – ECU / extensive dyno tuning / heavy duty engine mounts / baffled sump.
Power output: 120~122kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics – shootout)

DC5 Base model – low budget
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy duty clutch
#3 – DC5R Gearbox & Lower final drive
#4 – Intake – CAI's deliver superior results.
#5 – Header + S2000 cat + cat-back system
NB: DC5R cat back can be used on base model with small mod to rear or base model cat.
Further modifying the airbox – Hondata style also adds a little power…
For those who aren't sure, automatic models do not have flywheels or clutches

Regarding modifying your car.
If you can’t afford to do it the right way, avoid the temptation to do something right now & save up until you can afford to get the right parts.
Obviously I recommend using only TODA products where they exist for the application.
Products from other manufacturers can be substituted with varying levels of effectiveness.

Ok… as before… Comment away...
Cheers

Adrian
TODA Racing Australia

[FunkyR]

So you are recommending the first mod anyone does is to do the flywheel and clutch?

I'm guessing most ppl would automatically think Intake/Exhaust because they're easy to put on....

[TODA AU]

Correct... You guess about most people is also correct...
The order things are listed in is in order of deminishing return on investment.
If you have to do things in stages or an order, this is what you aught to stick to...
Fwiw: I always reccomend flywheel, clutch & final drive sets over intake & exhaust because if you put the two cars next to each other.
The stock looking & sounding one, with only the flywheel, clutch & final drive;will chop the noisy bucket (Intake, header, exhaust only) every time...
It will do so, quickly, quietly and by a considerable margin.
For guys who only what a mild improvement to their car this is a sensible path...
There is no compromise to the reliability of the vehicle nor it's plain jane charater.
Adding the intake - header - exhaust after that is smarter.
You already have an efficient driveline, the small gains you get from bolt-ons will now take greater effect.

[wynode]

Once a gain great info Adrian.

[madjace]

HI Adrian ,

great info again , i noticed you stopped at the low budget for the dc5 base ( i can guse what the anser to this question will be ) any reason , also what kind of kw could you expect from he base dc5 with these mods couples with a vafc ii

thanks again ..

[FunkyR]

How does a heavy duty clutch improve a straight line drag on a stock/near stock DC5R? I'm guessing it allows the clutch to bite at a higher launch speed? (I understand the flywheel & final drive bits)

[pckit]

Whats a good final drive for the dc5r adrian? i got the impression that the stock final drive is very on already.

[TODA AU]

ATS 5.06 final drive...



http://www.a-t-s.co.jp/atsgif/DC5finalgear.gif
*Gear ratio 6.3% lower than the stock.*the

[euGeR]

and that 6.3% is a major increase in the torquey feel :thumbsup:

[CivicOnBoost]

Where are you quoting your figures from?

I know of a DC5R with K&N SRI, BuddyClub 3 Exhaust and Hondata K-Pro pulloing consistent 138fwkw @8500rpm here in qld as well as a couple of DC5R's pulling around the 120kw mark with CAI or SRI and 2.25" exhaust and hondata manifold gasket.

And a 60mm exhaust i belive would be too big, BC3 isn't even 60mm or 2.5inch. Both CAI and SRI have the pro's and cons but powerwise there isn't a massive difference.

[FunkyR]

Actually suprisingly 2.5"+ exhausts work well on the DC5R according to James from Hondata....

[BLKCRX]

What Adrian says is all true guys, like wise with FunkyR, DC5’s Love Large exhausts… hell in the US there using 4” now ! LOL now that’s crazy.



Adrian makes very valid points thow, upgrading your transmission to release extra power by changing the ratios by making the engine work harder makes more power sooner, it’s a great mod that will produce results and still look totally stock.



Of corse each to there own mod’s many people just do cheap cold air induction systems and an exhaust, because they want to show off…hell I have numerous people in Australia who want a stock car totally with just a ECU upgrade. Adrian’s just given his thoughts on how to release more power ;) YAY for Adrian.



The k20 DC5 is a great car, I love tuning them and I love releasing the power Honda hide for its owners.



At the end of the day it all comes down to $$ the more money you have the faster your car will be, give or take the correct knowledge in buying / tuning the correct parts.



Regards James

[pckit]

Where are you quoting your figures from?

I know of a DC5R with K&N SRI, BuddyClub 3 Exhaust and Hondata K-Pro pulloing consistent 138fwkw @8500rpm here in qld as well as a couple of DC5R's pulling around the 120kw mark with CAI or SRI and 2.25" exhaust and hondata manifold gasket.

And a 60mm exhaust i belive would be too big, BC3 isn't even 60mm or 2.5inch. Both CAI and SRI have the pro's and cons but powerwise there isn't a massive difference.
I'm sure all the figure Adrian is quoting is based on dynos done here in Sydney... for some reason, all you QLD lucky boys seems to be getting higher figures than us in Sydney with similar mods.. Maybe he should of quoted the rough based figures for a stock DC5R.

Adrian, how much are the ats FD going for?

[BLKCRX]

Me and Adrian both like sexy blonde girls with small arse's n large **** ;)



Regards James

[TODA AU]

Me and Adrian both like sexy blonde girls with small arse's n large **** ;)

Regards James
LOL...
You're the Blonde man... I actaully prefer Brunettes...
& subscribe too...
It's better to be stoking the fire than fussing over the mantle piece... ;)

[madjace]

hi adrian ,

quick question , howmuch would it cost to do the flywheel , cluthch and final drive in my base and how long would you need the car for ?

[toE]

any reason for using the s2000 cat? :)

[franki]

i want to get my dc5 down 2 a 13 seconds 1/4. what do people recommend. how much $ am i looking at?

[Sp3rMz]

Turbos Turbos Turbos.

I believe bang for bucks

High budget – best power delivery would give you mid 13s
Medium budget – Stop @ ECU high 13s

But expect to be spending alot of money running N/A.

BTW: Having a beat of a machine will not give you 13seconds or 14seconds if the driver is not up to the task. Not saying anything bout you're driving as I don't you nor your driving skills but don't expect the world straight away. Get to know your new machine and learn and to gain max power driving wise. (something I'l never do :thumbdwn: can't even launch my stupid car)

[franki]

try starting in second, it reduces launch spin

[Sp3rMz]

I believe its my poor tires. Even though they like 80% tread falken ziex are the worse tires you can get. They just cheap. I even launch at 3rpms stil wheels spin. Combo of poor driver skill and poor tires poor 1/4.

Neways sorry for going off the topic.

I'm also cruious bout the s2k cat? Would this be the same for dc2r too?

[franki]

can u please tell me how much it should approximately cost for each of the dc5r mob budgest. so we can get an idea of how much itl cost us for such horsepower increase. :honda:

[staryknight]

can you guys recommend a good lightweight flywheel, heavy duty clutch, and final drive thats good for a turbo dc5r, and how does the heavy duty clutch improve performance btw? or isit just so itll last longer? Ive tried my friends civic and he has a heavy duty clutch and that thing is hell hard compared to my clutch, youd get a left leg workout everytime you drive that car.

[spite]

Great info Adrian, if I have my car on my return to the country I will be giving you a call :)

[max-honda]

Hope i can complete the step 1 !!

[iwkyb]

how much can i grab a DC5R gear box for? will the reverse lock out still work?

[whtdc2]

HI Adrian, thank you for your info, oil cooler, oil cooler!!! I try to find it but no one makes a bolt on one for DC5 expect the ARC which costs about A$2200, so how to get one ?? Can I use a EK9 Trust oil cooler for our car?? Thanks

[wynode]

Couldn't you just run an oil cooler from another manufacturers car?

[davidd]

Oil -coolers the cheap way ... go to any saab wrecker pick a turbo saab(newer the better), remove oil cooler, get backing plate for your oil filter, run the piping yourself and it will probably cost you $300 + backing plate

[whtdc2]

thanks for your replies. I will find out if it will work. Took my car to the track on Saturday, my oil temp was up to 138, is it a bit hight??

[j0nbubz]

hi im new here ^^

that was great toda_au! im guessing the info was referring to a manual??

what about an auto DC5?

[FunkyR]

hey just out of interest, how heavy is the stock AUDM DC5R flywheel?

[Suki]

NB: When fitting a heavy duty clutch to a DC5R, the front and rear engine mounts should be attended to.

That is fill them with stickflex or use Mugen inserts / mounts.

This will avoid the inevitable knocking on the floor under the driver of the exhaust system.


Adrian - when u mention this, it made me think coz i do get this problem and i have not change my clutch yet. Although i have my aftermarket clutch coming next week. So is there anyway i can prevent it from happening in the future. What did u mean by using stickflex? what is that...?

[TODA AU]

Adrian - when u mention this, it made me think coz i do get this problem and i have not change my clutch yet. Although i have my aftermarket clutch coming next week. So is there anyway i can prevent it from happening in the future. What did u mean by using stickflex? what is that...?

My appologies...
I made a spelling error... It's actually Sikaflex.

Technical Data sheet is here: http://www.sika.com.au/cmi/pdfs/TDS_Sikaflex252.pdf

Material safety data sheet is here:
http://www.sika.com.au/cmi/pdfs/MSDSSikaflex252.pdf

The front & rear engine mounts need to be removed & filled with Sikaflex.
They need to cure overnight, preferably for 2 days.
This will harden them suficiently to prevent exessive engine movement issue.

Sikaflex is a polyeurethane product.
It is available at your local "Bunning's" store.

[wynode]

This will avoid the inevitable knocking on the floor under the driver of the exhaust system.

So this is something that happens on a stock DC5? Is it a reconmmendation to put the motor mount inserts in WHILE doing the clutch......? *confused*

[TODA AU]

So this is something that happens on a stock DC5? Is it a reconmmendation to put the motor mount inserts in WHILE doing the clutch......? *confused*

Doesn't have to be done at clutch change time...
It can be done any time... (takes about an hour - re fitting Mugen inserts)
Though it isn't that common a problem on a stock DC5,
Only when there is a loose nut between the steering wheel & the seat. ;)

[R123]

wow.. thats a very interesting and useful topic for all DC5 owner.. THanks a lot Adrian. frankly, i myself have a ~list~ of things which i HOPE i can have in my car, but i wasnt sure which work shop i can go to have them fit in.
Is good to see some 1 like u come out and tell us such meaningful info about our modify our cars.
anyway, my question is.. do u stock most of Mugen and Spoon parts? how much would it cost to install a sets Spoon breaks front and rear?
thanks heaps

[TODA AU]

wow.. thats a very interesting and useful topic for all DC5 owner.. THanks a lot Adrian. frankly, i myself have a ~list~ of things which i HOPE i can have in my car, but i wasnt sure which work shop i can go to have them fit in.
Is good to see some 1 like u come out and tell us such meaningful info about our modify our cars.
anyway, my question is.. do u stock most of Mugen and Spoon parts? how much would it cost to install a sets Spoon breaks front and rear?
thanks heaps

Cheers for the vote of confidence... :)
Glad to be of help. Plus, I'd rather see guys spend money wisly than waste it on things that don't really work or offer good performance for dollar spent.

Ok, about the brakes...
We don't really stock much in the way of SPOON or MUGEN.
(Resivoir socks etc only)
Everything else we just bring in as required to order.

Regarding the SPOON brakes,
The DC5R uses the monocoque caliper as apposed to the cheaper twin block caliper for the DC2.
http://www.spoon.jp/jp/products/images/lineup/301_01.jpg
The pair of calipers aren't cheap & will set you back around $2500 for the pair.
As these are designed to be used on the JDM DC5R, you may have to use the JDM DC5 rotors & various bits also...
(Maybe someone can confirm this)
If you're in the market for SPOON rotors, try some of the other traders on this forum also. (Not sure if any one will have these in stock, but certainly shop around)
Guys that spring to mind to contact are:
hondar (JDM Concept), Z10 & EG5 (JDM Yard), SP0017 (Driven Performance) vbmenu_register("postmenu_271164", true);

Regarding fitment,
We charge how long the job takes, realisticly it'd take most workshops about 2~3hrs all up with no hitches,
So in our case, you'd be looking at upto $240 in labour.
(Our labour charge rate is $80 per hour.)
Some other shops charge less, some are more.
This labour component plus the cost of whatever brake fluid you wanted to use should give you an idea of what to expect.

FWIW, IMO, you'd be better off with a Wilwood kit as they're cheaper & offer the same if not better braking performance.
Down side is I really don't think they look as cool as the SPOON calipers...:rolleyes:
http://www.wilwood.com/Centers/Information/applicationguide_kits/images/05.jpg
http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/ds413.pdf
I am biased though as I have these fitted to my car. ;)
Installation cost is roughly the same, but you get the benifit of having an increased rotor diameter should your wheel size allow it.
Cheers

Adrian

[wynode]

Don't mean to take this off topic too much but there is some info on doing the Spoon caliper conversion in this clubRSX thread (http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=204568&highlight=spoon+caliper). There is quite a bit of swapping over required from the JDM DC5R including the JDM LCA and (I think) knuckle.

[TODA AU]

Cheers Win, I figured there'd be issues of sorts. Just wasn't 100%

[R123]

thanks for the info again Adrian... yeah, talking abt the break, i do have my heart set on the spoon's one. i have been collecting info abt the costs and how to bring them here. and ur price (appro) is within wot i would expected.
so yeah... thats cool i will definitely give u a call when i ready for the breaks. Cheers

p.s hope can read more info abt modif DC5 from u and other guys ...

[TODA AU]

Up dated info (only minor changes)

[bubblecivic]

Very useful post.
I was wondering why use the S2000 cat?
What size is it and is it the best cat to get for the DC5R?

I mean, won't people be after "high flow" cats?

Sorry I don't know these things

[TODA AU]

Very useful post.
I was wondering why use the S2000 cat?
What size is it and is it the best cat to get for the DC5R?

I mean, won't people be after "high flow" cats?

Sorry I don't know these things

The main benifit to the performance enthusiast (who cares little of the health of "Flipper")
to use the S2000 catalyst, is the unit's low back pressure & high flow.
As an OEM fitment to a 240hp NA 2L engine,
it makes sense to use one on a B or K series engine when you want to remain legal without comprimise to power output.
Capable of more than 240hp of exhaust gas flow,
the S2000 catalyst also outperforms traditional block type ceramic high flow calatlyctic converters in emmision output.
This is due to the S2000 cat body being thin-walled stainless with a low-heat radiating metal honeycomb core.
The spiral metalic core design of this cat converter not only increases the exhaust-gas processing surface area,
but also promotes a quick rise in temperature that greatly reduces hydrocarbon emissions during engine warm-up.
As a side note, visually the converter has a more aerodynamic look to it too.
Hope that helps,
Cheers

Adrian

[dc5melbteg]

Great info, looks like I’ll using the Hondata k100 then its the best combination for bang for your buck power increase, my car is blowing black smoke and I can't wait to get it tuned, who the best person in Melbourne to take the car to, to get it tuned ?

[SiR CRX]

I am reading this thread with a lot of interest as I have just got a new job and I am considering a DC5R for my next car. I live in Perth and there are only a few places to get a Honda tuned. I am very interested in the K20A cams and stroker kit as I want to get the car really going without the use of forced induction. Are these items ok to use on the street as I don't take the car to the track very much but I do a bit of drag racing.

[kousoku]

lol i'm sure adrian cannot condone the use of mods on any street car.

but if you were to drive on a track, in exactly the same way you were driving on roads, basically simulating this style of driving then i'm sure it would be fine for the road. *wink wink*

[SiR CRX]

I like to have quick cars and I love driving VTEC Honda's so I want to get as much out of the K20A as I can without sacrificing reliabilty. I did consider a Top Fuel turbo kit but I think the K20A is such a nice motor in n/a form that it is much better suited to n/a upgrades.

[TODA AU]

Are these items ok to use on the street as I don't take the car to the track very much but I do a bit of drag racing.

No problem.

[Non Vtec]

If your going to upgrade the Cams etc in the K20A you best bet is to get a Hondata K-Pro and get the IPS-K2's they are proven along with Crower to be the best performing cam on the market making 10-20whp more than the toda N2 engine kit.
As far as stroker kits go, you can do a k24-20 hybrid with a few firms doing sleeved blocks and various other parts, but as yet the hybrids havent really been proven to be reliable as everything is so new.
On the www.k20a.org site there is alot of info to be found about the K20A motors, the modifications people have done and the gains they have made, its well worth a look. You'll find the power you can make from a DC5 will vary with mods, but a Toda Header, any CAI, a K-Pro, and the IPS or Crower cams will see you end up with around 220-250whp, depending on the tuner. Add a set of ITB's and you might see some good gains again, even running a stock block. Upgrade the block and depending on your budget you might see 300whp if its tuned really well..

[SiR CRX]

I just had a look at the Toda header and man it's a nice piece of work. It says it can't be used on the street though, why is this? Can a cat be connected to it? Do Toda do cat-back exhausts for the DC5 too?

[SiR CRX]

I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with the ARC induction boxes on a DC5R? They look damn cool but do they perform well?

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/3545/arck20a6ij.jpg

[TODA AU]

I just had a look at the Toda header and man it's a nice piece of work. It says it can't be used on the street though, why is this? Can a cat be connected to it? Do Toda do cat-back exhausts for the DC5 too?

It can be used on the street if a catalyst is added.
I usually fir the cat just after the taper of the last collector & ad a donut flex joint in lue of the braided flex the header comes with.
Use a spiral metal matrix cat for best performance.
Avoid fitting the cat in the B-pipe as it tends to hit the floor on the back-off.

TODA do manufactur a cat back exhaust for the DC5.
It is pictured below.
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1025
See: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20821
For details.

[TODA AU]

If your going to upgrade the Cams etc in the K20A you best bet is to get a Hondata K-Pro and get the IPS-K2's they are proven along with Crower to be the best performing cam on the market making 10-20whp more than the toda N2 engine kit.
Fair comment to a point, but to be honest, your statement is a little missleading.
Btw, great result with your EG. Respect. :thumbsup:

FWIW, The IPS-K2 cams are best copared to the TODA Racing Spec C camshafts.
Not the US market only Spec N2 camshafts.
This can easily be seen by looking at camshaft specifications.

IPS K2 intake camshaft specs:

low speed lobe: 253 (9.25mm)
high speed lobe: 302 (13.28mm)
TODA Racing Spec C intake camshaft specs:

low speed lobe: 250 (10.50mm)
high speed lobe: 300 (13.00mm)
---------------------------------------------------------
IPS K2 exhaust camshaft specs:

low speed lobe: 246 (8.10mm)
high speed lobe: 295 (11.84mm)
TODA Racing Spec C exhaust camshaft

low speed lobe: 250 (10.50mm)
high speed lobe: 295 (12.00mm)
For those wondering...
N2 cams are not sold in Australia or New Zealand.
Our market uses Spec A2 cams which are slightly larger than the US N2's
N2 295deg at 12.5mm vs A2 297deg at 12.5mm
Larger than these cams do work in various applications.
Please be mindful of your total combination when chosing your camshafts.

[SiR CRX]

That exhaust looks superb. I will be purchasing a cat-back and some headers from my local TODA dealer if I do decide to buy a DC5R. Thanks for all the help TODA AU much appreciated.

[Non Vtec]

Does the Spec C retain the full VTC functions? and come with a Hondata Map? or do they require the VTC killer cam gears?

I didn't realise that Toda Jpn made big K-series cams, Since Toda USA made the N2 kit for them. Rumour was that Toda Jpn was making any cams.. I hope to see some results, if you send me a price I might consider looking into a set aswell, for testing and possible on selling which ever cams don't perform the best..

Gary

[TODA AU]

All TODA Racing camshafts are manufactured in Japan by TODA Racing Co.,Ltd
This includes the US market only Spec N2 camshafts.
Spec C camshafts can be used with VTC or VTC killer sprockets.
(Absolute control of VTC must be maintained. Piston to valve & valve to valve clearance must be acuratly calculated. Use of VTC killer sprocket on exhaust cam is advisable & no more than 40~45deg intake cam advance angle - Hondata K-Pro. Machining of head & cylinder block + used of 0.3mm head gasket also affects these clearance values. )
NB:If VTC function is retained, the factory ecu cannot be used.
If Hondata K-Pro is used, it will require tuning. No Hondata calibration is given.
I'll talk to you via PM re prices etc

[vupham]

Hi Toda_AU or anyone from Brisbane, how much will it cost for the mods below? I like quiet and quicker than stock so i preffer the below path. Anyone in brisbane especialist in modifying dc5 type s?

Low budget – Sleeper (Quiet & quick)
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy-duty clutch
#3 – Lower final drive
#4 – Modified stock airbox (Aka Hondata)
#5 – Header + cat + JDM DC5R or Mugen cat back
#6 – Hondata K100
Power output: 120 ~122kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics- shootout)

[2002 TeGgY]

hey, im new to this site. thanx a lot Toda_AU for all the useful info. i actually live in Wagga Wagga NSW, im sure most of u heard of it lol. anyway, as u probably alredy know there are very limited workshops locally that can do any thing to my base model auto DC5, but i went to P & P perfomance in Wagga to get a cold air intake, and the guy said that it is impossible because of its design and how it doesnt face the front of the engine bay. i was just wondering if getting an expensive mugen air box would make a difference in performance. BTW i alredy have a cat bak Hi-Tech 2.5" exhauste system. thnx

[bubblecivic]

CAI is impossible? I think not!

You will be able to get an Injen CAI for the DC5s for roughly $450 - $550 depending where and the installation is easy to do it yourself from what I've heard.

Places to source them include the clubrsx store at www.clubrsx.com or tozka.com. Toda AU will be able to source them for you also.

There are other brand including K&N Typhoon that you can source from one of our traders, "egSi" so shoot him a PM re this.

[2002 TeGgY]

CAI is impossible? I think not!

You will be able to get an Injen CAI for the DC5s for roughly $450 - $550 depending where and the installation is easy to do it yourself from what I've heard.

Places to source them include the clubrsx store at www.clubrsx.com or tozka.com. Toda AU will be able to source them for you also.

There are other brand including K&N Typhoon that you can source from one of our traders, "egSi" so shoot him a PM re this.
thanx a lot for that, the only thing is that the web site u gave me is from america :( i was wondering if any one knows of a place in sydney that sells the Injen CAI. thnx

[X8TEENX]

i was interested about the Lightweight flywheel & Heavy-duty clutch. will that cause increase HP of dc5r? and how much it cost??

[James S C]

Bang for your bucks – DC5R mods

By request,
Bang for your buck – DC5R
As with DC2, The DC5 is pretty fussy when it comes to mods that actually work…
On the race track… The following parts are must haves…
Oil cooler / low temp thermo fan switch…
If you can’t afford a good aftermarket radiator, at least fit a low temp thermostat.
Both are better…. Suspension & brakes also need to be addressed.
These aught to be addressed before you chase any extra HP.
As for getting more power, Honda’s are pretty fussy…
The actual parts combination is everything…
It must be put together exactly right… I can’t stress enough how important this is.
Once it’s put together right, it can be tuned… This also should be spot on…
The three work together, if 1 side has a weakness, power suffers…
Examples: Your pipe dream combination isn’t right… Power suffers…
Your mechanic doesn’t really know what he’s doing… Power suffers…
Even with perfect combination & assembly, with crap tuning… Power suffers...
NB: When fitting a heavy duty clutch to a DC5R, the front and rear engine mounts should be attended to.
That is fill them with sikaflex or use Mugen inserts / mounts.
This will avoid the inevitable knocking on the floor under the driver of the exhaust system.

Minimum budget – Just a bit quicker…
#1 – Intake - Never use a SRI of any brand – CAI only (Eg: INJEN / AEM / GruppeM)
#2 – Header + S2000 cat + cat-back system (60mm minimum)
Power output: 116 ~118kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics- shootout)


Low budget – Sleeper (Quiet & quick)
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy-duty clutch
#3 – Lower final drive
#4 – Modified stock airbox (Aka Hondata)
#5 – Header + cat + JDM DC5R or Mugen cat back
#6 – Hondata K100
Power output: 120 ~122kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics- shootout)

Low budget – never going to get an ECU
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy-duty clutch
#3 – Lower final drive
#4 – Intake - CAI's deliver superior results.(Eg: INJEN / AEM / GruppeM)
#5 – Header + S2000 cat + cat-back system (60mm minimum)
#6 – Spec A2 camshafts / valve springs / head gasket 0.3mm
Power output: 126 ~128kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics- shootout)
NB: Add K100 ECU for 144~146kw

Low / Med budget – Never going to crack the engine open.
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy-duty clutch
#3 – Lower final drive
#4 – Intake - CAI's deliver superior results.(Eg: INJEN / AEM / GruppeM)
#5 – Header + S2000 cat + cat-back system (60mm minimum)
#6 – ECU + Dyno tuning
Power output: 128 ~132kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics- shootout)

Medium budget – Hate noise & Stop @ ECU
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy duty clutch
#3 – Lower final drive
#4 – Intake – Modified stock / GruppeM or Pipe style CAI (NB: CAI loud @ WOT)
#5 – Stock exhaust system / or stock JDM DC5R exhaust system
#6 – Spec A2 camshafts / valve springs/ 0.3mm head gasket / ECU / dyno tuning / heavy duty engine mounts.
Power output: 136 ~138kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics – shootout)
8600rpm rev limit

Medium budget – Stop @ ECU
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy duty clutch
#3 – Lower final drive
#4 – Intake – CAI's deliver superior results.
#5 – Header + S2000 cat + cat-back system
#6 – Spec A2 camshafts / valve springs/ 0.3mm head gasket (Compression up from 11.0:1 to 11.4:1 / Titanium retainers / ported head / JDM intake manifold / ECU / dyno tuning / heavy duty engine mounts.
Power output: 148 ~150kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics – shootout)
9000rpm rev limit

High budget – best power delivery
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy-duty clutch
#3 – Lower final drive
#4 – JDM Intake manifold + CAI only
#5 – Header + S2000 cat + cat-back system
#6 – Ported head / Spec A2/B/C camshafts / valve springs/ Titanium retainers / adjustable cam gear - exhaust only / fuel pump / Forged pistons / Forged rods (For over 9000rpm) / injectors & fuel pressure regulator / ECU / dyno tuning / heavy duty engine mounts.
Nb: Additional head work that can/may need to be done includes shaving of rocker arms for cam clearance, re-shaping of valves, combustion chamber re-profiling.
Power output: 156+kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics – shootout)

Products soon to be released...
- TODA Racing K20A 2.2L stroker kit
- TODA Racing K20A quad throttle sports injection
- TODA Racing K20A iVtec "Race" camshafts
- TODA Racing DC5R cat-back exhaust systems (Available now)

Race engine (Drag / Improved production car or better)
#1 – Lightweight flywheel (Consider twin plate / carbon )
#2 – Heavy-duty clutch
#3 – Lower final drive / transmission cross gear kit
#4 – Quad throttle sports injection + fabricated CAI duct / flue
#5 – Header + cat-back system
#6 – Ported head / Spec A2/B/C camshafts / valve springs/ Titanium retainers / adjustable cam gear - exhaust only / fuel pump / Forged pistons / Forged rods (For over 9000rpm) / injectors & fuel pressure regulator / ECU / dyno tuning / heavy duty engine mounts / baffled sump.
Power output: 165+kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics – shootout)

Race engine – GTP production car (stock)
#1 – JDM flywheel & Exedy HD clutch
#2 – JDM exhaust manifold
#3 – JDM intake manifold
#4 – SPL (open) exhaust system
#5 – Std intake / stock air box – no modification permitted.
#6 – ECU / extensive dyno tuning / heavy duty engine mounts / baffled sump.
Power output: 120~122kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics – shootout)

DC5 Base model – low budget
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy duty clutch
#3 – DC5R Gearbox & Lower final drive
#4 – Intake – CAI's deliver superior results.
#5 – Header + S2000 cat + cat-back system
NB: DC5R cat back can be used on base model with small mod to rear or base model cat.
Further modifying the airbox – Hondata style also adds a little power…
For those who aren't sure, automatic models do not have flywheels or clutches

Regarding modifying your car.
If you can’t afford to do it the right way, avoid the temptation to do something right now & save up until you can afford to get the right parts.
Obviously I recommend using only TODA products where they exist for the application.
Products from other manufacturers can be substituted with varying levels of effectiveness.

Ok… as before… Comment away...
Cheers

Adrian
TODA Racing Australia

[JonNy_DexTeR]

yeah nice... How much is a minimum budget, and how much is high?

[TODA AU]

Min budget approx cost:
#1 – Intake - From $450 for local intake to approx $1600 for GruppeM + fitting.
#2 – Full exhaust without any compromises will set you back $3750 fitted, drive away. Ie: Toda header, Spiral cat, Toda cat back & swaybar, incl fitting & welding. Purchasing only the cat back system will firther reduce costs (and performance) as the header, cat & swaybar are ommitted.
Using lesser parts will reduce costs & output.

High budget – To include all top shelf parts & workmanship, you'd need to budget $25K drive away.

[FEELDV]

"#2 – Full exhaust without any compromises will set you back $3750 fitted, drive away. Ie: Toda header, Spiral cat, Toda cat back & swaybar, incl fitting & welding."

I don't know uz manage, These prices are so large that i don't know who would spend that much for just an exhaust, for almost $4000 you would expect a Turbo Conversion lol.

[FunkyR]

that's a header, cat, sway bar AND exhaust though...

[TODA AU]

I don't know uz manage, These prices are so large that i don't know who would spend that much for just an exhaust, for almost $4000 you would expect a Turbo Conversion lol.
We manage just fine thankyou.
I would have to say you are also correct, there is probably a lot you don't know...

[dark138]

i think the point here is with parts, the performance and price graph isn't exactly linear... to double the performance of the same part, it often takes more than double or even quadtriple to price to get the absolute best.

now this is where i find its contridictory, to pay that extra "sum" to modify a car to get the desired performance, you may easily find a stock car with which is already capable of doing such already but cheaper?

this is where i m standing and dunno whether i should be spending cash to those extra few kws

[vupham]

I guess if you like that particular car, you would modify it because after all it is a hobby at the end of the day. If you dont have $5000 lying around to do that min budget, do it bit by bit, thats what i am planning to do :D save save save

oh toda, i emailed you about the price for the fly wheel and clutch, still havent got an reply from u yet

[SiR CRX]

Regarding the Toda exhaust system, is it not suitable for the street because it is too loud? How loud is it actually? Am I right in assuming that the Spoon and Mugen exhaust systems don't include a catalyst?

Cheers :thumbsup:

[vupham]

I was watching a video clip from one of the member at clubrxs who just installed the toda exhaust system. It sounds quite nice actually, not loud. Atm its my preffer choice exhaust system because u can just bulk it on too i think. $$$$ save save

[TODA AU]

oh toda, i emailed you about the price for the fly wheel and clutch, still havent got an reply from u yet

Must have missed it,
I try & answer as many as I can per day.
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13667

[RyDC5S]

Hi Adrian

How is your Type S project progressing?

regards'
Ryan

[davidd]

Adrian,

Can you add some information on your recomendations fro going down the forced induction path, whether it be Supercharging or turbocharging :)

Cheers

[air23box]

great info....good work adrian....cheers mate...

[GReY_CVC]

Medium budget – Stop @ ECU
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy duty clutch
#3 – Lower final drive
#4 – Intake – CAI's deliver superior results.
#5 – Header + S2000 cat + cat-back system
#6 – Spec C camshafts / valve springs/ 0.3mm head gasket (Compression up from 11.0:1 to 11.4:1 / Titanium retainers / ported head / JDM intake manifold / ECU / dyno tuning / heavy duty engine mounts.
Power output: 154 ~160kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics – shootout)
8800rpm rev limit

or

Low budget – never going to get an ECU
#1 – Lightweight flywheel
#2 – Heavy-duty clutch
#3 – Lower final drive
#4 – Intake - CAI's deliver superior results.(Eg: INJEN / AEM / GruppeM)
#5 – Header + S2000 cat + cat-back system (60mm minimum)
#6 – Spec A2 camshafts / valve springs / head gasket 0.3mm
Power output: 126 ~128kw @ wheels (Dyno dynamics- shootout)
NB: Add K100 ECU for 144~146kw
For even more power, Spec A3 or Spec C camshafts can be swapped in.


just wondering wats the costs for these mods well roughly neway??

[sangsational]

Hey Adrian,

Could you tell us quickly about the benefits/drawbacks of Metal Matrix CATs as compared to S2000 CATs? In an earlier post you rave about S2000 CATs and later on you mention that Metal Matrix CATs are recommended for best performance. I'm confused :(

Thanks!!

[aDe]

no cat is better :D

[Banana]

whats does it mean by
"NB: Spec C camshafts, VTC function is retained."
????

[FunkyR]

Adrian - is the S2k cat a perfect fit onto the DC5R? What about the sensors? (If I remember correctly the DC5R has 2 on the CAT?)

Also any reason why u recommend a s2k cat over an after market hi-flo cat?

thx

[XXX_R]

guys what do you all think of the APEXi Super VAFC II does it actually make a
decent improvement or is it a waste of time and money???

[pornstar]

Sorry guys, im composing responses for you guys due to Adrian been so flat out. My apologies, but im pretty flat out atm myself, will get onto this or let adrian know about these questions as soon as possible.

If your in Sydney and require urgent responses, please call Adrian at the workshop.

If your in Melbourne you can contact myself.

Regards.

[R123]

guys what do you all think of the APEXi Super VAFC II does it actually make a
decent improvement or is it a waste of time and money???

hey man, i think this was covered in one of the thread in Integra's section. have a look, mayb is 2nd or 3rd page. but IS there....

however i remember all of the guys saying jz that VAFC II doesnt do much if jz install it without other components and tuning.. imagine that jz a remote control, u need to all other speakers and mixers and the screen to workin along with. :)

cheers :thumbsup:

[DragonxtCz]

ive had my dc2r for about 3 4 months.. ive onli put on a custom cat bak exhaust and apexi filter... ive got a quote for about 1k for toda headers and cat is that a good deal?

[matt]

ive had my dc2r for about 3 4 months.. ive onli put on a custom cat bak exhaust and apexi filter... ive got a quote for about 1k for toda headers and cat is that a good deal?

you posted in the dc5r BFYB, try the dc2r section youll probably get a better response.

[giannetto]

im currently looking for a DC5R atm.

Your suggestions for mods are (in the respective order) flywheel, clutch, final drive sets , intake then exhaust.

Approx. how much would this cost, including installation?

[TODA AU]

guys what do you all think of the APEXi Super VAFC II does it actually make a
decent improvement or is it a waste of time and money???

It offers small gains on the DC5 base model,
On the Type R & Type S it's a wates of time & money.

[TODA AU]

im currently looking for a DC5R atm.

Your suggestions for mods are (in the respective order) flywheel, clutch, final drive sets , intake then exhaust.

Approx. how much would this cost, including installation?

This is not really a thread to advertise how much things cost,
It's more to arm you guys with the correct information as to how to go about modifying your car & get good results.
If you'd like a quote, please email or PM me.
Cheers

Adrian

[koldfire]

__________________
AUTHORISED TODA RACING DEALER - VICTORIA

HONDA TUNING: AKmotorworks


can we get the address and contact number of the above for the victorian people?? thanks

[FunkyR]

Adrian, I cant find any AUDM DC5R products on the toda australia website.... can u post the URL? Thanks

[timofytit]

Jeez, i need more help, i read and read and ask for advice, so much conflicting info. I've started modifying my DC5R, only suspension and wheels atm, just waiting on 2 dif CAI's atm, i plan to sort that out before i move on to the extraction/exhaust side. Buddy club seems a good option though. PS, Teins are better than factory Type R suspension. But on another note, they were stronger in other areas.