engine noises in DC5 Type-R - auto chain tensioner replacement

[markmill]

Hi All,

My Type-R has started making some 'grinding' type noises (sorry, not good at describing it) when it first starts and driving, it has done about 158,000km. The noise goes away after about 30 seconds.

I have taken it to the local Honda dealer, and they have said it looks like the auto chain tensioner will need to be replaced, and possibly the timing chain aswell if it has been stretched.

Has anyone had experience with this before, and know what it should really cost me? They have said that it is extremely labour intensive, and not worked out a price yet.

They have also recommended that I get the major 160k service done at the same time, which is another $910 ontop of whatever they charge for the timing chain issue.

If I can get some advice on what this should really cost, and if anyone can recommend somewhere in Adelaide to do it, it would be appreciated!

Cheers,
Mark

[WATAJK]

Hi All,

My Type-R has started making some 'grinding' type noises (sorry, not good at describing it) when it first starts and driving, it has done about 158,000km. The noise goes away after about 30 seconds.

I have taken it to the local Honda dealer, and they have said it looks like the auto chain tensioner will need to be replaced, and possibly the timing chain aswell if it has been stretched.

Has anyone had experience with this before, and know what it should really cost me? They have said that it is extremely labour intensive, and not worked out a price yet.

They have also recommended that I get the major 160k service done at the same time, which is another $910 ontop of whatever they charge for the timing chain issue.

If I can get some advice on what this should really cost, and if anyone can recommend somewhere in Adelaide to do it, it would be appreciated!

Cheers,
Mark

OMG Mine does this!!!!
On the odd occasion... NOT ALWAYS...
My auto Elec reckons it could be the starter motor aswel...
The noise is like a crunchy sound but disappears after starting.

[aaronng]

At 158k and the fact that you are already hearing odd noises, you might have to replace not only the tensioner unit, but also the parts associated with the timing chain tensioner such as the guide rails and the chain.

[aaronng]

OMG Mine does this!!!!
On the odd occasion... NOT ALWAYS...
My auto Elec reckons it could be the starter motor aswel...
The noise is like a crunchy sound but disappears after starting.

You might have a different issue, especially if your crunchy sound disappears immediately after starting. The timing chain tensioner issue will be there for a bit longer until the oil flows into the tensioner unit to provide positive tension against the chain.

[markmill]

Honda have come back and said that they would be charging an extra $265 over the $910 service price to do the auto tensioner at the same time (much less than they hinted at!). but the service still seems pricey or is that right?

as aaronng mentioned, they also just told me that depending on what happens, they might also need to be replacing the chain if it has been stretched and other parts, which cant be determined until they start doing the work.... so there is this unknown cost.

their other recommendation if I am planning on keeping the car and not sell it is to get a complete reconditioned engine for $5k.... anyone had experience with this before?

Thanks for everyones feedback so far!

[aaronng]

Honda have come back and said that they would be charging an extra $265 over the $910 service price to do the auto tensioner at the same time (much less than they hinted at!). but the service still seems pricey or is that right?

as aaronng mentioned, they also just told me that depending on what happens, they might also need to be replacing the chain if it has been stretched and other parts, which cant be determined until they start doing the work.... so there is this unknown cost.

their other recommendation if I am planning on keeping the car and not sell it is to get a complete reconditioned engine for $5k.... anyone had experience with this before?

Thanks for everyones feedback so far!
$5k for a reconditioned K20A2 seems very cheap. Where is this engine coming from and what is the history and condition?

Personally, I would get an experienced Honda workshop to replace the tensioner guide, chain tensioner unit and any other tensioner-related part and not do it through the dealer. The dealer is always more expensive.

Also, $910 for a 160k service is very expensive. It includes only the following as extras over a minor service: air filter replacement, fuel filter replacement and valve clearance inspection. Everything else (fluids and suspension parts) are inspected and only replaced as required, which becomes and extra cost on top of the $910.

[markmill]

$5k for a reconditioned K20A2 seems very cheap. Where is this engine coming from and what is the history and condition?

Personally, I would get an experienced Honda workshop to replace the tensioner guide, chain tensioner unit and any other tensioner-related part and not do it through the dealer. The dealer is always more expensive.

Also, $910 for a 160k service is very expensive. It includes only the following as extras over a minor service: air filter replacement, fuel filter replacement and valve clearance inspection. Everything else (fluids and suspension parts) are inspected and only replaced as required, which becomes and extra cost on top of the $910.

They didnt say the source of the engine or history. They said they have done previous ones that have been around that price. Apparently they can source 2nd hand, non-reconditioned engines for slightly cheaper too if wanted, but that will not come with a warranty.

Thanks for your advice... I will phone around and see if I can find a honda workshop in Adelaide that can look at doing the work .... or if needed I guess I can always go for a road trip interstate to Melb or Syd :)

Thanks!

[WATAJK]

You might have a different issue, especially if your crunchy sound disappears immediately after starting. The timing chain tensioner issue will be there for a bit longer until the oil flows into the tensioner unit to provide positive tension against the chain.

Ahh k
well it's when i turn the key, engine starts (then i hear a crunching sound then it goes away, car drives fine??)


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Why don't you consider re-building your motor?
Easily half the price.

[aaronng]

Ahh k
well it's when i turn the key, engine starts (then i hear a crunching sound then it goes away, car drives fine??)


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Why don't you consider re-building your motor?
Easily half the price.
Yours sounds like a sticky starter solenoid. Is it a crunching sound like gears or is it a crunching screeching sound like scratching against a blackboard?

He doesn't need to rebuild the engine. Just needs to replace all the tensioner-related parts.

[WATAJK]

Yours sounds like a sticky starter solenoid. Is it a crunching sound like gears or is it a crunching screeching sound like scratching against a blackboard?

He doesn't need to rebuild the engine. Just needs to replace all the tensioner-related parts.

Sounds like what your saying aaron, crunching of GEARS
How can that be fixed ? (didn't wanna start a new topic as it's very similar)

Ahhh ok, thought a rebuild would b a good idea though :)

[gilby126]

[QUOTE=WATAJK;2595217]Ahh k
well it's when i turn the key, engine starts (then i hear a crunching sound then it goes away, car drives fine??)


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yeh mate i get that noise too when i start the engine half the time...its like a noise when you turn the key and hold it for too long...but when i turn on the engine, it makes the noise when i only turn the key a little...so dunno what that could be

[WATAJK]

[QUOTE=WATAJK;2595217]Ahh k
well it's when i turn the key, engine starts (then i hear a crunching sound then it goes away, car drives fine??)


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yeh mate i get that noise too when i start the engine half the time...its like a noise when you turn the key and hold it for too long...but when i turn on the engine, it makes the noise when i only turn the key a little...so dunno what that could be

ive thee exact same thing as u >.>
io share ur pain

[DoAvl]

same problem here. only started appearing this week :( shhhhhhiiittt... more problems.

[WATAJK]

If anyone knows whats causing this please post up
i fink it could be the starter motor?

[DoAvl]

more info: mine seems to be happening at start up and again everytime i'm coming out of a corner at about 2000-3000rpm. as it approaches or hovers at 3000, the buzzing sound is very apparent.

at first i thought it might just be the bonnet latch rattling against the hood, but that is mega tight now.

i'll do an oil change and see how it goes. if that fails, i guess it's off to honda for some wallet draining. :(

[6000rpm]

Search it up on clubrsx (http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=524929&highlight=starter+motor&page=3) and you'll find a lot of people have similar problems caused by the starter motor.

I get this grind too every now and then, more common in winter though.

Try leaving the ignition on reds for a couple of seconds before you crank the motor, works for me.

[WATAJK]

Search it up on clubrsx (http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=524929&highlight=starter+motor&page=3) and you'll find a lot of people have similar problems caused by the starter motor.

I get this grind too every now and then, more common in winter though.

Try leaving the ignition on reds for a couple of seconds before you crank the motor, works for me.

ive done that alot but it still occasionally happens >.>

[DoAvl]

update: changed the oil and problem solved. looked like i had about a litre and a half left... shit. car is consuming more and more oil... :(

[aaronng]

update: changed the oil and problem solved. looked like i had about a litre and a half left... shit. car is consuming more and more oil... :(

You should check your oil level every one or two weeks.

Have you checked your PCV valve? Replace it since it is a cheap part.

[stanleym]

get honda to check this before changing out.... i have learnt the hard way

[bennjamin]

just to add -

I too had a crunch immediately after starting.(k20). Not always , but often. Seemed to be when dead cold....but the issue dissappeared when I got a new battery. No idea how this fixed it....(more power kicking the starter motor at a faster speed or ?!)

[stanleym]

Bennjamin,

with my service at honda.. i took it in and complained about the 2000-3000 rpm rattle. Shoudl the mechanics have known timing chain tensioner before they changed oil and tried to start? Since they started it...it got the rattle and the car died....

what are the odds cams etc are stuffed or the pistons have collided with valves?/



Cheers

[bennjamin]

Bennjamin,

with my service at honda.. i took it in and complained about the 2000-3000 rpm rattle. Shoudl the mechanics have known timing chain tensioner before they changed oil and tried to start? Since they started it...it got the rattle and the car died....

what are the odds cams etc are stuffed or the pistons have collided with valves?/



Cheers

Interesting...as I too occasionally have a rattle at light/medium throttle around that RPM. 95,000ks....I dont think there is a replacement issue with the tensioner - its not mentioned in honda service manuals when to check ( only the belt tensioner) So Im guessing its checked/replaced whent he timing chain is....in which i cant find any info on lol.

[stanleym]

Honda said it's meant to last engine life.. Tensioner failed for me and timing is gone.. Said dirty oil cause incorrect pressure and tensioner to fail..

[lemmiwinks]

I get a grinding noise when I turn OFF my dc5r, only lasts a few seconds.. What could it be?

[type_AHH]

Reckon there is any difference between using oem starter motor and an aftermarket starter motor thats meant to be a direct replacement?

[WATAJK]

Reckon there is any difference between using oem starter motor and an aftermarket starter motor thats meant to be a direct replacement?

stick to OEM and replace the ring to a TODA HD (Heavy Duty) Ring to avoid this problem again.
Practically just rebuild your starter motor.

[aaronng]

Interesting...as I too occasionally have a rattle at light/medium throttle around that RPM. 95,000ks....I dont think there is a replacement issue with the tensioner - its not mentioned in honda service manuals when to check ( only the belt tensioner) So Im guessing its checked/replaced whent he timing chain is....in which i cant find any info on lol.

By design, it should last the life of the chain. In reality, it is not the case. The teeth or the ratchet wears out and you get the piston retracting too far, causing chain rattle. Unfortunately, the only way to check is to remove the timing chain tensioner and visually inspect the ratchet and teeth.