Buddyclub Spec III+ CAMS in a B16A.

[DD2]

Are they worth the effort ?

I've bought some second hand as an impulse buy and am currently in two minds about going ahead with the install.

My goal was a peak of 105 - 110kw at the front wheels with more torque & midrange. Is this a little ambitious?

The engine is a Jap spec B16A

And i've already got I/H/E, 4.9FD and will be using an emanage to tune it all.

What else is needed (or should I say recommended) to accommodate such a mod?

I'm assuming a new intake manifold & throttle body.

What about head work or aftermarket retainers / valves etc?

While the emanage may not be ideal, will it be enough to get the majority out of the CAMS and related upgrades?

Anyone able to provide ballpark figures in terms of labour cost based on personal experience?

Thanks :thumbsup:

[Chr1s]

Valvesprings?

[MikeyG]

sinec you get those cams, get cam gears, get supertech valvesprings and retainers then tune.

[DD2]

Sorry, forgot to mention they came with toda valve springs.

Will it matter if i got a different brand retainer?

So head work isn't really neccessary then?

[MikeyG]

you got cams dude... you need to work the head to max the gains...

and no its doesnt matter if you have a different brand retainer..

[JDM-EGG]

sounds like my old crx.. i had bc spec III + toda valve springs too , was really good rev like a mofo :)

[DD2]

That's where I get stuck... What head work is needed? I'm not after every last ounce of peformance. More so to get to the "bang for your buck" status without going overboard.

Or better still what would get to my goal assuming it's attainable?

[DD2]

sounds like my old crx.. i had bc spec III + toda valve springs too , was really good rev like a mofo :)

:) they are from your old crx

[typeRr]

i got spec C cams for my ep3 and i learnt the hard way that the biggest isnt always the best.

[vinnY]

3+ are mild anyway only slightly bigger than stock itr cams, just make sure you got decent valve springs(which you have) and have it tuned and you should be sweet

[beeza]

Headwork isn't a must is it? That's what the OP wants to know.

Can he reach his goals of 105-110kw's without the headwork or should he do the headwork anyways?

:)

[fatboyz39]

Leave the retainers OEM. They can handle 9000rpm.

Upgrade the springs. You power goals will be achieve easily.

[Chr1s]

If you don't get it with headwork, change the final drive - you'll have a ball.

[DD2]

Headwork isn't a must is it? That's what the OP wants to know.

Can he reach his goals of 105-110kw's without the headwork or should he do the headwork anyways?

:)


Mate, you got it in one :)

[DD2]

Leave the retainers OEM. They can handle 9000rpm.

Upgrade the springs. You power goals will be achieve easily.

Thanks.

So you would agree that head work won't be necessary?

I can simply drop in the cams + springs and be done with it.

Might also upgrade the intake manifold and throttle body.

[DD2]

If you don't get it with headwork, change the final drive - you'll have a ball.

Sweet.. As i'm running a 4.9FD.

[beeza]

Mate, you got it in one :)

Thanks mate,I got a knack for that sorta thing ;)

I remember being told,'think of the final drive as a torque multiplier' :thumbsup:

[fatboyz39]

Thanks.

So you would agree that head work won't be necessary?

I can simply drop in the cams + springs and be done with it.

Might also upgrade the intake manifold and throttle body.

What kind of headwork? A good service and valve job should do the job just fine.

Bigger t/b and intake manifold will help.

[DD2]

What kind of headwork? A good service and valve job should do the job just fine.

Bigger t/b and intake manifold will help.

Any kind I guess, unless it was going to make a day & night difference with performance.

Based on what i've discovered these cams should yield some noticeable gains and still remain fairly reliable and close to stock driveability. They're only slightly more agressive than CTR.

My plan now is to install the cams with the springs, some adjustable cam gears, an ITR intake manifold & throttle body and then tune.

My goal of 105-110kw peak with more midrange, the 4.9FD and in the light EG shell...... should be happy days.

Well here's hoping anyway :)

[fatboyz39]

Similar setup when we had b16a. Fun car to drive with the b16a. Dont be scare to rev it. We had it turned over 9200rpm with standard rods.

[dougie_504]

I don't think you'll need a new TB or IM, they will breathe fine if you give them a hard clean with some Suburu engine cleaner, will breathe like a new car.

As for head work it's not necessary but I think the whole idea lots of people have is that if you're going inside the head you may as well do everything at once. Especially if you're going to mod it again, because you may as well get it tune'd once it's all done inside, rather than going piece by piece.

- Clean
- Valves
- Valve springs
- Retainers
- Cam shafts
- Cam gears
- ? Port job

Wish you the best with this project mate. Show us how it comes out :)

[DD2]

Hmm.. I just googled the Subaru engine cleaner... looks interesting. Where would one buy such a thing?

In terms of the headwork, I’m thinking the head won't need to come off if I’m just replacing the cams & springs. With the right tools they can be installed as is from what I understand. Should be relatively cheap labour wise (I hope).

I'm still gathering parts, so will be a short while before I have them installed.

But I’ll be sure to post my results.

[DD2]

Similar setup when we had b16a. Fun car to drive with the b16a. Dont be scare to rev it. We had it turned over 9200rpm with standard rods.

9200rpm.. WOW.. would have loved to hear that.

From memory the factory B16A ECU will cut out at 8700.

What's normally the easiest way to increase this?

Would a stock ITR ECU slot right in?

[GSi_PSi]

if your going to do all that work \\you should buy a tuneable ecu

[DD2]

I've got the emanage but that won't let me increase the rev limit ASFAIK

[ALLMTR996]

if your going to do all that work \\you should buy a tuneable ecu

Yep cheapest way out Crome.

[91type-r]

i have a similar setup to what you are talking about. 1st gen b16a, i have jun stage 3 cams with springs and retainers and port and polished head, standard intake (b16a 58mm tb) bigger injectors,4-2-1 extractors and 5zigen exhaust tuned with emanage blue. 147hp at the wheels. i am in the process of making my own intake manifold to improve the power more as when it gets to 8000rpm it tapers away due to a lack of airflow from the intake. if it kept going up it would easily have 155hp to 160!!

[DD2]

i have a similar setup to what you are talking about. 1st gen b16a, i have jun stage 3 cams with springs and retainers and port and polished head, standard intake (b16a 58mm tb) bigger injectors,4-2-1 extractors and 5zigen exhaust tuned with emanage blue. 147hp at the wheels. i am in the process of making my own intake manifold to improve the power more as when it gets to 8000rpm it tapers away due to a lack of airflow from the intake. if it kept going up it would easily have 155hp to 160!!

That's mad.

Our setup will be very similar.

I'm also running a 5zigen 4-2-1 header and pro racer exhaust :)

But i think my engine is a gen2 jap spec B16A

Around 150hp peak is exactly where i'd like to be.

Did you have a dyno sheet by any chance?

How were the mid range gains?

Do you know how much of an increase the port and polish provided?

Do you mind sharing how much it cost labour wise? (pm if you like)

This is the only bit i'm "umming and arring" about.

Thanks :thumbsup:

[91type-r]

Sorry i don't have a dyno sheet here. its gonna get re-tuned soon as i had to change the ecu so i will post it up when it gets done.
the power gain was all throught the rev range.
I can't determine what gain was had by the port and polish but i think it to be a mandatory mod with big cams! there would be no point in trying to get a gain from an intake manifold upgrade if it is not continued throught the head!

I have buit my car by going backwards throught the engine.
exhaust-extractors-port/polish-cams- and next will be the intake.
my theory behind it is to get the maximum amount of power from the air that is already in the engine!
And it also helps you determine the shortcomings of the engine/drivetrain to point to the next mod rather than throwing parts at the car!

The price for all of this was about the $4000 mark. thats cams, springs retainers, port polish, adjustable cam gears, thinnner head gasket, fuel injectors and tuning. I think I covered it all.

[DD2]

Mate, thanks for the info.

I think you've pretty much convinced me now not to bother with aftermarket cams.

[ALLMTR996]

Sorry i don't have a dyno sheet here. its gonna get re-tuned soon as i had to change the ecu so i will post it up when it gets done.
the power gain was all throught the rev range.
I can't determine what gain was had by the port and polish but i think it to be a mandatory mod with big cams! there would be no point in trying to get a gain from an intake manifold upgrade if it is not continued throught the head!

I have buit my car by going backwards throught the engine.
exhaust-extractors-port/polish-cams- and next will be the intake.
my theory behind it is to get the maximum amount of power from the air that is already in the engine!
And it also helps you determine the shortcomings of the engine/drivetrain to point to the next mod rather than throwing parts at the car!

The price for all of this was about the $4000 mark. thats cams, springs retainers, port polish, adjustable cam gears, thinnner head gasket, fuel injectors and tuning. I think I covered it all.

Thats alot of money for something that cams/valve train and tuning alone will make more power than a STD B16a cyl head will flow around 250hp STD please Toda correct this if I am wrong,B16a engines respond very well to BC3+ or Toda-A cams,to make use of a ported head you would need alot more compression than a STD B16a bottomend has.

[DD2]

After all the google searching and trolling through forums, i think you might be on the right track. You're theory seems to be what most of the American posts suggest. A lot of them recommended a 3/4 angle valve job.

I'm thinking even a larger throttle body & intake manifold may be overkill without a more agressive cam and higher compression.

Be good to hear from Toda or another reputable workshop with their thoughts & experience though.

All said and done I'm still 50/50 about the install.... so i've listed the parts for sale.

[ALLMTR996]

The B20Vtec in the BYP EG ran an UNPORTED cyl head it only had the combustion chambers reshaped using a CNC program that was developed here in Sydney that engine made over 150kw and yes it had a multi angle valve job.
I think a setup like this would be what your after
Std head multi angle valve job
Toda or similar valve springs
Toda Spec-A or BC 3+ Cams
Toda Headers good 2.25 or 2.5" exhaust
STD intake manifold fitted with ITR or upto 65mm TB
custom length CAI to suit your package
ECU Tuned with Hondata/Ectune/Neptune/Crome not that E-Manage crap you have or some for a piggy back junk.
That setup will make VERY nice power as a daily and return very good fuel consumption once tuned correctly.

[eg5civic]

Just a quick question for th op

where did you get your 4.9FD gear from, how much was it to get it installed,
i'm assuming it made a big difference in driving?

Also whats it like highway driving at say 100-110km/h in 5th gear?
Is it just revving off it face or?

[vinnY]

the mfactory gear calculator (http://www.teammfactory.com/gearcalculator.php) is a pretty good resource to check what rpm/speed you'll be at in a certain gear with different gear ratio setups and final drives