Three noobie questions

[noel]

Hi All
Three questions:
1 Should my 2009 Civic VTi vibrate under moderate acceleration? Happens up to what I believe is fourth gear, but not top, to about 3,000RPM. Smooth after that. Distance covered: 3,500k's
This is my second Civic, the first a 1991 hatchback, which did not vibrate, but it did not have VTEC, either. Nor did it the guts of the LE.
Previous two cars were an EL Falcon (quite agricultural at 3,000RPM, and a Toyota Avalon V6, which was smoooooth.)

2 The car has side airbags. Can I fit seatcovers with the bits cut out?

3 According to gps, speedo is quite fast. Anybody know correct road speed at say, 2,000RPM, top gear, on a flat road. Mine shows 108kph, the gps, 102kpm.

Any help appreciated. I find today's Honda dealers to be a little vague and evasive, especially when the issue could centre on warranty.

CHEERS
NOEL

[Tom eg5]

Hey mate not too sure on the first 2 questions as i havent owned any newer cars.
but as for the last question about the speedo. any car u jump in will read about 5-10kms faster than wat the GPS will say. Im not %100 sure why but i know that all cars do it so its nothing to be worried about. just saves u from speed cameras :P.

[CB7_OWNER]

1. No, the car should not vibrate, under normal condition. Provided that your not shifting to early and choking/lugging the engine. E.G. Fourth gear @ like 20km/h and thats for manual. DEFINITELY SHOULD NOT vibrate if its automatic.

2. Not recommended. Dont do it. If your involved in an accident. Insurance may not pay out ?

3. Most vehicle speedometers read less than what a gps in car would read. Dont know why.. but its the same case for x number of cars ive driven.

[noel]

Thanks, guys, for your views.

To elaborate, I didn't mention the vibration comes from the drive train. It's not like the "power surge" that comes through the floor in some cars. This is harsh, but can be reduced by easing off on the accelerator. Accelerate below 2,000 rpm and there's little vibration. But, hell, aren't Honda engines free-revving? The car is an auto.

Like my Avalon engine, the Honda goes better under certain weather conditions, eg, on an overcast, humid night, but at other times, the Honda vibrates. The local Honda bloke drove it recently and claimed it was ok - but of course, it wasn't vibrating so badly that day (Murphy strikes again!)

BTW, I'm not a boy racer, just an old fart who's had cars since 1956. I bought my first Civic on the recommendation of a friend, who said the motor was 'The sweetest, revin'est, zingin'est, thing'. And he was a guy who could afford much dearer cars!

HOPE the above helps
CHEERS
NOEL

[shadou]

... to question 2 insurance doesn't car jack shit about car seats or airbags deploying; it's inadvisable to fit seat covers that obstruct the area of deployment but I am pretty sure Honda have designed special seat covers to suit, search.

as for no.3 you can raise this with the lads at Honda to verify accuracy using their laptop to ECU reader, this is the best bet to insure accurate speedometer reading.

[noel]

HI again, All
This morning, the weather was overcast and sticky, so the Civic ran like it should, with only the degree of vibration one would expect. Seems the problem is in the fuel management system? However, the selling dealer claimed they checked all codes at the 1,000k service - ok!

It made me wonder, though, why they didn't test-drive the thing, apart from the 100 metres from the workshop to the parking area, to check-out the reported vibration.

Perhaps I should spring for a few bucks and have it dyno-tested?

CHEERS
NOEL

[VT3C]

1. What kind of 'vibration' ?? a hesitation or rattle from the engine itself ?? or something from the transmission / tyres/ steering etc ? If it's from the enghine - HONDA had some recalls and bottom-end issues wit htheir R18's.. I had a couple of customers that had to have new blocks on warranty - but obviously the Dealership ois gonna try n rort you before they go down the warranty claim path. if your Dealerhsip doesnt give you the love and your 'vibration' is still there - call HONDA AUSTRALIA CUSTOMER SERVICE if your car is still under warranty and THEY will kick some a55es and get you a result !!

2. Honda's have a sensor in the seat to detect if any kid's hands or arms are on/over/around the seat in order to disable the airbags to prevent any injury to the passengers. fitting seat-covers CAN trigger the sensor to disable the side airbags in the event od a crash. This is OK for legality and inurance but if you had side airbags (And dont care about the weight) why would you want to jeopardise their effictivemness in the event of a crash ? you CAN get some NON GENUINE seat covers with cut-outs ove rhte sides of the chairs to allow the airbags to still operate, but there is no certainty they wont affect the sensors or the operation of the bag itself. HONDA doesnt offer any seat cover accessories for side-airbag equipped vehicles even though it is a strong profit-making opportunity for Dealerships - doent THIS tell you something ??

3. all modern speedos have a buffer of 4-8km/hr.. so if it reads 60km/hr you're probably only doing about 56 km/hr in actual fact. allthough i've noticed some FD civic's with their digital speedo seem to be a bit more 'optimistic'.. had one drive past me in my Prelude and I could see it's speedo so I did a speedo check against the '88 BA4 Prelude and it was about 5-6 km over the speed I was reading. I wouldnt worry about it unless you're like 10+ km/hr out.

[shadou]

maybe the quality of the fuel you are using, try a batch of 95 premium unleaded or 98 for a tank or 2 and see whether you still have this 'vibration', you gotta fuel up anyway so there's no harm in trying this option

[slimx]

put a full tank of high octaine petrol u should be right. if not perhaps gearbox fluid? coz if it shakes on gear.. only big chance its gearbox..

Try neutralling it.. at that speed and just rev it to the rpm if it still shakes maybe engine mount? bad speed humps cane brake'm

[noel]

Hi All

Many thanks VT3C for your most comprehensive and helpful reply, and to the guys suggesting a fuel change.

A dealer responded to my query about seat covers using some acronym, relating to the passenger seat, without further explanation. VT3C expanded on that nicely - now I know what the dealer was talking about. Great, mate! Our issue with seat protection is two dogs, so I'll continue to cover the seats with towels. Children don't ride in the car (no kids at our place; never found out what causes them, actually!).

It's hard to explain the vibration, other than to say it's not there when cruising, but appears under moderate acceleration and, at times, seems like it could be coming from the gearbox in the lower gears. The vibration is not from something loose, or say, mis-aligned exhaust system, but can be felt through the go pedal and the driver's footrest; it's not like the "power surge" that tells the right foot (even with the bionic throttle) the car is accelerating.

It also depends on the weather whether the vibration comes in; hot, overcast and humid, it's not there, particularly at night. But, on a dry, warm day, it can be expected. To be fair, the dealer who road-tested the car said there wasn't an issue - but the weather was "right" for it not to raise its head.

Could the vibration be associated with Honda's practice of using running-in oil?

The vibration was present on taking the car home after delivery, ie, on the F3 between Gosford and Newcastle. It's now done nearly 4,000kilometres. The engine does not ping.

I'll try running it on 95 and a bottle of injector cleaner. Our Xmas trip to near Mittagong returned under 7litres/100k's; perhaps the motor is running lean, as it probably hasn't loosened-up fully at 4,000k's?

Anyway, guys, many thanks for your interest in this one. It will be a week, or so, before the car needs petrol; I'll try some premium and report back on possible results.

CHEERS
NOEL
BTW Does Honda have a travelling engineer, who visits dealerships to try to sort out issues, such as this. Or would a trip to big-H in Sydney be advisable?

[noel]

Greetings All

At last - I've been able to fill the tank with 98 and add a bottle of fuel system cleaner.

After 20 k's the car seems livelier, the vibration on acceleration has reduced, BUT (and you knew that was coming, didn't you?) the vibration seems to have shifted to the over-run. Perhaps it's early days?

Many thanks for your help.

CHEERS
NOEL

[Manabir]

the speedo is out for a good reason.
it is very difficult to get the speedo 100% accurate, to compensate for this manufacturers are allowed to have a 10% varience (atleast its 10% in australia, ADR, not sure about other countries). so instead of having it read that your slower than you are, which would open the manufacturers up to lawsuits from speeding fines, they choose to set it this way.
arse coverage.
i always use my gps, and have actually had it going a few times through the "speedo check" things. it has shown that the gps is accurate, not the speedo.
not even just 1 gps either.
nokia maps on 3 differant nokias, a tomtom go910, and google maps on both a htc and an iphone.

[aaronng]

I'll try running it on 95 and a bottle of injector cleaner. Our Xmas trip to near Mittagong returned under 7litres/100k's; perhaps the motor is running lean, as it probably hasn't loosened-up fully at 4,000k's?

Anyway, guys, many thanks for your interest in this one. It will be a week, or so, before the car needs petrol; I'll try some premium and report back on possible results.

Do not use injector cleaner! Just put in a full tank of 98 RON and see if it stops the vibration. If it does, then it is most likely a fuel issue with the 91 RON that you are using and I'd advise to try another petrol station.

A full tank of 98 RON is cheaper than a full tank of 95 RON and a bottle of injector cleaner.

[shadou]

I think he already did it.

[noel]

HI All
Yes, the injector cleaner has been added. Reason: Cleaner should go in before filling tank, and I like to top-up from about half-full. It's an old practice from the days when petrol wasn't available 24/7 and the car may have been needed for an out of hours trip.
My EL Falcon suffered from cold stumble from new (in a 35 grand car, yet) but improved after a bottle of cleaner. The later Avalon loved a bottle after each oil change.

However, I can see where you're coming from; I should have given it more thought before bunging in the injector cleaner.


CHEERS
NOEL

[noel]

Hi Again, All
Well, the car has had two tanks of 98, with more power, but almost no improvement in the vibration stakes.

An independent Honda specialist drove the car and said "it's not right". You should have heard the racket when he ran the motor at 3,000rpm with the air on and transmission in neutral.

On a bad day, the vibration comes in at 2,500 revs and is heavy at 3,000, Mainly in the lower gears. The vibration remains if the throttle is closed and the revs run back, or as it swaps cogs. It can be felt through the passenger-side floor.

Honda customer "care" does a lovely piece of duck-shoving. You'd know the line -"go back to your dealer, he's the expert". They say there's an independent guru in the area, but how is he/she accessed?

BTW, the other problem with my car - a fault in the paintwork - was referred to our local dealer, who took pix and sent off their quote to Honda. That was on 15 December, but as yet, there's been no word on whether they'll honour the warranty claim - seven weeks later. I'd hate to have the car off the road, waiting for a new motor, or whatever!

CHEERS
NOEL

[shadou]

legal advice ? You've got an independent Honda specialist to back you up and evidence; threaten them

[noel]

Greetings
A funny thing happened on the way to the forum. Yesterday I sought the views of a second Honda dealer - and history repeated itself.
When I first went to a dealer - and there was very little vibration - I'd checked the tyre pressures, restoring them from 32 to 34psi. Prior to yesterday's visit, I'd done the tyres and you guessed it, there was little vibration. I didn't tumble to the coincidence until yesterday.

But wait, there's more. Yesterday's dealer is 40 k's away, and halfway home, the vibration came back, but not as bad as before. So, could there be a link between cold tyres at 34psi, with minimal vibration, then warming up and still ok, but further driving and increased pressure bringing our old enemy back?
The tryes are Dunlop Sport 300's.

The weather also comes into the picture. Today was hot, steamy and very overcast; the car was even smoother than yesterday morning.

The upshot is that the latest dealer was only too happy to look at the car in coming days, so perhaps a session on his hoist and a test drive, will help.
Let you know how it pans out.

CHEERS
NOEL

[noel]

HI Again, All
An update on my previous: The Maitland dealer's "head technician" drove the car and ran a computer check, only to pronounce it ok; no vibration, yet it did the usual vibration thingo, between 2,500 and 3,000rpm, on the way out there and coming home. The strange thing is that no dealer has actually put the bloody car on a hoist to check for possible causes of the vibration.

So, to date, two Honda bods say no vibration and one private Honda specialist says there is inappropriate vibration. As they say in the Armed Forces, "Beats the s**t outa me, Lieutenant!"

Today, I've found that if the pedal is pressed enough to get the car rolling, then increased further, then further still, in small doses, it will pass through 2.5 and 3,000rpm with minimal vibration. In other words, push the pedal a little, then wait for the motor to rev up, before doing that all over again.

One option is to make it change before 2,500; we all know it's an auto box, right? And for sure, we all know how hard it is to stop these motors revving a little.

The car hit 5,000 kilometres today, so perhaps things will improve when it's fully run in?

CHEERS
NOEL

[noel]

Just a quick update - I threw a tizz at the need to have the car off the road, because faulty paintwork got right through the system without being picked-up, and wrote to Honda Japan about it.

And, guess what - they duck-shoved it back to Oz, saying that Honda Australia was responsible for handling such issues; however, they regretted that I had had to write to the firm re issues. Yeah, right, having worked in PR for a lotta years, I know that line only too well.

Their letter was dated 22 March and so far, there's been no response from the local guys. Time will tell. Meantime, the vibration persists, but has lessened after a couple of tanks of E10 95. The car has done 6,000k's and is due for its first 10,000k/12month service this month. Perhaps, as I'm paying for it, they'll put it on a hoist and look for rub marks from the dreaded vibration. Receently, whilst backing out of our carport, up a hill, I'd swear there was bottom-end rumble.

CHEERS
NOEL

[curtis265]

I also have a vibration around 3000 RPM, although mine suonds like a screw's loose.

No seat covers - however u can do a fabric change if you're hardcore.

The speedo always reads a bit high, so that you can't ever file a lawsuit against honda for giving dodgy speedo readings (and getting too many fines)

[noel]

Greetings, All
The saga is nearing an end. As previously mentioned, I fired off a missive to Japan, and a copy to Honda OZ, all of which ended up with a local dealer.

It's been said that Japan was displeased and got on the horn to Thailand (for letting faulty paintwork through), and OZ, who let the local guy know I was coming in for a service and to go for a test ride with me. And, of course, today the vibration was almost non-existent (that bloody "dealer sensor", as my brother calls it), so nothing could be done. They did a good job with the service.
However, I'm finding that the vibration is now down to an acceptable level because, I reckon, the motor is loosening up and it's been run on E10 for about 1,000k's.
I find E10 is less powerful than 98, so I'll go back to filling from half a tank, E10 one time and 98 the next and see how that goes.

Many thanks for your input on this issue.

CHEERS
NOEL

FINAL UPDATE (fingers crossed) Following its first 10,000k service (at 6,400 k's) the vibration is now almost non-existent, so it seems that it was a case of running-in that did the trick. The dealer also did a thorough check during the service, so could have found something they didn't tell me. Perhaps, too, going to a regular grade of oil, from the 5-30 original, played its part.
BTW, I've recently sourced an under-bonnet sound insulation pad and fitted it; nice result, unless you like to hear the sound of VTEC woriking.