S2000 vs ITR: value for money [Archive]

t200

13-01-2010, 09:24 PM

Hey guys,
This is my first post and I just wanted to ask your opinions.:wave:

I recently sold my z32 300zx and have been looking at DC2 type R's these last 6 months. I love the fact that they are such highly tuned cars straight from the factory- fast, screamer of an engine, and overall engineering aspects of the car appeal to me. However, the only think that I am not impressed with is their price :(

The ones that are up to my standards (below 100k, unmodified, mature owners, full service history etc) are up around the 20 k mark! This car only cost about 44k new, and 10 years later, they are asking 20k!!
According to redbook, they are worth between 9 and 13k at most. In fact, I called AAMI for an insurance quote for one that was advertised for 19k and they said that the maximum agreed value of the vehicle for a 00 model would be 9k!!
(Here's the link)
http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?R=7896551&__Qpb=true&Cr=1&__Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32%7c1%7c%7cpCar_PriceSort_D ecimal%7c1%7c%7cpCar_Make_String%7c0%7c%7cpCar_Mod el_String%7c0&keywords=&__N=1216%201246%201247%201252%201282%204294965322% 204294965105%204294920621&SearchAction=N&silo=1011&seot=1&tsrc=allcarhome&__Nne=15&trecs=6&__sid=1254722764E7

Some might say it's because of the high demand for the DC2R's, but the fact is, the most of the DC2's on carsales have been there for over 6 months and DC5's represent far better value (I don't really fancy the DC5 BTW).

To be honest, I will only ever consider an ITR once owners start listing them below the 14k mark:zip:

Because of this, I was curious to see what else had similar qualities to a DC2 ITR and hey presto, I have been drawn to the S2000. This is what i found:
http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?R=8149644&__sid=1254722764E7&__Qpb=true&Cr=0&__Ns=pCar_LastModifiedDate_DateTime%7c1&keywords=&__N=1216%201246%201247%201252%201282%204294965322% 204294964924&seot=1&tsrc=allcarhome&__Nne=15&trecs=82&silo=1011

This is only a little bit more expensive than a same year DC2 but remember that these cars cost nearly 70k new.

I just want to ask anyone if they have upgraded from an ITR DC2 to an S2000?

Is the S2000 as easy to drive as the ITR? I'm quite intimidated that the S2000 is rear wheel drive and has a short wheelbase. My Z32 was RWD and had a short wheelbase and it was very twitchy on tight tracks such as Marulan, and was also prone to lift off oversteer.

Any advice at all would be welcome :)
I don't know anyone else in Canberra that drives a Honda except for myself (A Honda Legend as my daily)

Looking forward to VTEC :p
Cheers,
t200

ludecrs

13-01-2010, 09:36 PM

Best scenario, is to speak with Elliot (mad828) on these & s2ki.com forums. He had a very track spec DC2 ITR and an AP1 S2000 with light mods.

bennjamin

13-01-2010, 09:44 PM

ITR is a foolproof car. anyone can drive decently fast in it. A s2k takes a better driver to drive fast. Not like all these p platers doing skids n blowing parts etc.

JAP-S2K

13-01-2010, 10:16 PM

I can understand the large price tag for DC2R's. These were the true last all out, raw as performance type R. Excellent handling, killer motor, loud, bumpy, with an enormous quality aftermarket parts support. And most of all, great examples are near impossible to find, and there's not many to choose from.

S2K's on the other hand have seen an enormous slide in price, and most are up for sale for months, some over a year. IMO i'd hate to be selling one right now. So many to choose from, very few worth buying, as there's plenty that have seen poor servicing, or are repairable write-off's, or are modified with no performance gains considered but with visiual mods instead(each to there own). And those that are modified with quality parts are generally returned to stock and parted out, as the asking price for a properly modified vs stock are nearly the same. Most require new roof's, seals, clutches are noisy, diffs are noisy, seat's are showing sign's of wear. Most young owners can't be arsed to fix these issues and decide to sell them with a problem or two. Thus the shit house second hand prices.

S2K's like most performance cars have there known pro's and con's. Best you search these pages, most know the pro's and not many are aware of the con's. My point being, if your considering buying one, seriously look into what your getting youself into, as right now there not easy to offload, some of the mentioned parts aren't cheap to replace.

To answer your question though, No an S2K is not as easy to drive as a DC2R when driven near it's limits. I'm not saying that S2K's are hard to drive, by no mean's! It's just that there known to bite....... and depending on a whole lot of different factors like tyres, suspension, and under various road conditions, it can be difficult to prodict the car's behaviour at times, and achieving strong oversteer doesn't always happen through pushing the right pedal.

pure_na

13-01-2010, 11:19 PM

lmao. we are in an identical situation, and to be honest with you, so are a few people atm. For some reason, dc2rs have disapeared atm (there were a LOT more about 6 months ago) and therefore anyone with one worth buying is advertising for an unrealistic price...
I should tell you though, i learnt very quickly it's probs gonna be harder to find an s2k worth buying than a dc2r, or at least as hard.

Ferrari

14-01-2010, 12:48 PM

I have been asked this question before, they are both great cars in short. And the OP makes very valid points on value too.

Having owned both, the S2000 is hands down better in my eyes. It is harder to do up correctly, more expensive parts- (although getting cheaper and more supported), harder to master, and less forgiving.

This is what makes it a drivers car. The DC2r is so easy to drive it becomes boring, you have to be an absolute asshat to drive it off the track. First time out on the track I posted 1:13 at wakefield on RE001 and Im just an average driver - 2nd time with more confidence was 1:11.

Stock for stock the S2000 would be harder to drive and tail happy but once slightly tuned it becomes alot more compliant, and more FUN on the track.

ITR is a cult car hence its value, but I doubt many are selling for 20k, I got just 17k for mine and it had 90k on the clock heavily modified though. For 17k there is not many cars that can touch it.

Same with the S2000 if you can find a decent one, for 30 odd thousand its a bargain of a performance car.

Both are great cars it comes to personal preference too, the S2000 to me is what a sports car should look like, and still looks fresh the type r looked dated next to it. RWD is another thing, ever seen a FWD F1 car? Given that best thing about the type r is that it hid the fact it was driven from the front unless it was wet and on a roundabout lol.

The gearbox is great on the R and the S2000 takes it to another level all together.

Im emotionally attached to the S2000 though, and most people progress from an ITR to an S2000 (I know 5 who have done so) I went from 3 years of ownership of the S to adding an ITR to the garage, only to sell it after 10 months.

S2000 is an awesome driving experience and in some ways is harsher to live with than the ITR:
-limited boot space (ITR has massive storage)
-Stiffer ride, I drive with the shocks on the softest for the S2K and the ITR was on the stiffest and it felt about the same
-Type R had more usable power down low (especially at the extent mine was modified.)

Equally specced cars the S2000 would spank a Type R with the same driver, and not only that I reckon the driver of the S2000 would be having more fun, which is what all this crazy hobby is for me, having fun.

Latino CRX

14-01-2010, 12:54 PM

s2k .. RWD Vtec wat more can u want ;)

t200

14-01-2010, 10:31 PM

Thanks for your replies everyone, it was exactly as I was suspecting :p

I think both cars are absolutely amazing, the best to ever come out of Japan, being up there with the FD and NSX IMHO.

The technology and engineering finesse are of no comparison (to cars such as the Renault Clio) and I would be happy to own either. Replacement parts from an S2000 would certainly be expected, considering that this car was relatively expensive when it was introduced in 1999. This shouldn't be such a problem if a clean and original version is picked up. I spent close to 2 years looking for my 300zx (i actually ended up importing one because every one for sale was shite) and as it had a genuine 50,000 kilometers on the clock, it was a joy to own in terms of maintenance.

The only reason why I am hesitant about owning an S2000 is because I would use my Honda as a daily driver with the occasional track squirt.

Unlike others, I have no problems confessing that my skills are not up to the levels that i am confident to drive a RWD short wheelbase in a brisk manner....especially on the road (mind you, I did a 1min 15.7sec at wakefield in my NA zed).

Because I was always extra cautious in my zed on the road, i got bored and sold the car as I was led to the DC2r. I'm definitely no hoon, but I would like to take the occasional corner at the speed limit. Again I have to agree that when I drove a DC2r, it made me feel like a racing god because it was so foolproof (a similar feeling I got when I took an evo 8 for a test drive) You see, Canberra driver's are jerks and the city is full of roundabouts. I don't want to come in hot to a roundabout and have to lift off in a twitchy car because some idiot has pulled out in front of me. (anyone who lives in Canberra has experienced these tools on our roads!). This is my main hesitation in moving forward to the S2000.

I guess the next step for me is to read up on all the s2000 threads on the forum and actually test drive one. I'll definitely keep you all posted on my progress in this thread.

Oh, and if anyones interested, here's a youtube of a stock DC2r versus a stock S2000. (obviously, with 2 professional driver's in each car, we all know who the winner is!)
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=1992si#p/u/12/9qHOOOlVNuY

Cheers,
t200

STAiN MASTER

16-01-2010, 11:31 AM

^^ so your not going to get an S2000 because of roundabouts... right....

hussLEr

16-01-2010, 12:36 PM

Because I was always extra cautious in my zed on the road, i got bored and sold the car as I was led to the DC2r. I'm definitely no hoon, but I would like to take the occasional corner at the speed limit. Again I have to agree that when I drove a DC2r, it made me feel like a racing god because it was so foolproof (a similar feeling I got when I took an evo 8 for a test drive) You see, Canberra driver's are jerks and the city is full of roundabouts. I don't want to come in hot to a roundabout and have to lift off in a twitchy car because some idiot has pulled out in front of me. (anyone who lives in Canberra has experienced these tools on our roads!). This is my main hesitation in moving forward to the S2000.

^^ so your not going to get an S2000 because of roundabouts... right....

LoL..thought the same thing Stain Master.

My sister lives in Canberra, and I visit her occasionally. The roads there are HUGE and DEAD compared to Sydney; peak hour?..WHAT peak hour?! We can get from anywhere to anywhere in Canberra in under 20min?!
For ANYONE to have an accident there is almost bizzare IMO.

If getting into a prang at roundabouts and entering roundabouts at speeds that causes your car to violently twitch or induce power/snap oversteering, I think you may have to (re)consider two(2) things:
1. Not buy an s2000 because you will eventually write it off/ get into an accident due to poor negotiation of a traffic obstacle (ie. roundabout). Get more driving experience in a cheaper car before taking the next step?!

2.Buy a Four Wheel Drive so you come out best in an accident involving a roundabout.

PS. A good friend of mine has just jumped up to an s2000 from a DC2R. Best move he's ever made. Looks, speed, performance. Enough said.

Only one draw back I saw whilst sitting in it is lack of storage space; that may not be an issue to you though.

Latino CRX

16-01-2010, 01:04 PM

roundabouts dont u mean slidabouts ;)

t200

16-01-2010, 08:03 PM

roundabouts dont u mean slidabouts ;)

Yes, what i typed does sound stupid, but I guess I have a fear of roundabouts because I was in hospital for 2 weeks when someone cut me off in a roundabout and wrote my car off.

Hussler, yes, I agree that Canberra's peak times do not have as many people on the roads than Sydney, but this means there are more opportunities to drive faster and not crawl along..... When I had my accident, I guess you could say I got more paranoid on the roads. Next time your in Canberra, try driving through the main roundabout in front of the war memorial at 8:30am.....all 3 entrances (its one of those weird roundabouts adjoining one of the main roads to the city)leading to the roundabout are at 80km/h and when someone is'nt paying attention, it's the person in the roundabout who get's it. (If you have'nt realised already, i was sideswiped here at 80km/h)

I've lost count at the times at normal and "brisk" speeds i've had to lift off and slam on the brakes not only in roundabouts, but along corners too.

To Stainmaster, how about next time your going around a corner quickly in an S2000, lift off and slam the brakes down like someone's cut you off.... does it feel "fully hektic" or does it scare the shit out of you......

I hope this explains why I started this thread...
(No, probably not....someone else will nitpick something else that i typed......):p

STAiN MASTER

17-01-2010, 06:12 PM

To Stainmaster, how about next time your going around a corner quickly in an S2000, lift off and slam the brakes down like someone's cut you off.... does it feel "fully hektic" or does it scare the shit out of you.....

I do on the track but not on the road.

9large

17-01-2010, 06:35 PM

I can see what t200 is referring to - there are plenty of sh^thead drivers in Canberra. It's quite incredible the number of incidents that occur for a town of only 300-odd thousand. The design of the roads around most of the roundabouts there doesn't help either - one lane into the roundabout becomes two on the roundabout, before merging back into one within 30m of exiting the roundabout. This forces a lot of contention and in some cases, competition. Some drivers don't even care that there are two lanes on the roundabout and go straight through as if there was only one! And considering how many roundabouts there are in Canberra, few people seem to know how to use them. And they're just some incidents you'll find near roundabouts; there are plenty of other stupid driving incidents I've seen in Canberra (like people regularly driving into a pond or lake the moment a spot of rain appears) but I'll leave them for another day.

I have to say, most of the worst driving I have seen in Australia, has been in Canberra.

Having said all this, t200, it's not a difficult car to drive, but you just need to exercise some restraint and control driving the S2000, if you decide to purchase one. It's a great car - a true driver's car - but you can't go wrong with a DC2R either.

ChromZ

18-01-2010, 11:07 AM

hussLEr

19-01-2010, 12:54 PM

Hussler, yes, I agree that Canberra's peak times do not have as many people on the roads than Sydney, but this means there are more opportunities to drive faster and not crawl along..... When I had my accident, I guess you could say I got more paranoid on the roads. Next time your in Canberra, try driving through the main roundabout in front of the war memorial at 8:30am.....all 3 entrances (its one of those weird roundabouts adjoining one of the main roads to the city)leading to the roundabout are at 80km/h and when someone is'nt paying attention, it's the person in the roundabout who get's it.

True.

The large 'roundabout' at the end of Northbourne ave (heading south near Mooseheads) is alittle scarey for beginners also.

I guess it comes down to confidence.

As I said in my previous post, two of my close mates have just upgraded to S2000s; best car they've had. Only two things that I can see/ hear them talkin about being -ve is lack of space (eg. NO glove box!?!) and also fear of some f*ckwit damaging the roof.

jords

19-01-2010, 01:13 PM

s2k .. RWD Vtec wat more can u want ;)

I'd prefer a FWD that will out corner a s2k any day.

kevster

19-01-2010, 01:58 PM

i agree with jords.if you want a track day weapon, type r all the way , s2000 parts too expensive , id expect higher running cost , parts would be harder to get , although factory parts for type r can be painful, aluminium bends more than steel , s2000 cruise car on a hot day with a picnic hamper in the boot.

JAP-S2K

19-01-2010, 04:52 PM

since when did a DC2R out handle a S2K. Mod for mod, i don't think so.

9large

19-01-2010, 05:57 PM

^ I'm thinking the exact same thing Jap. It's almost like saying CRXs are better than NSXs...

But it's true - if you want a cheaper car to maintain and modify, or if it's too close to your financial limit, get the DC2R.

JAP-S2K

19-01-2010, 08:52 PM

I love both cars. Def agree that a well presented DC2R would be cheaper to maintain and modify. But like the early model S, most need alot of attention in the service and maintenance department.

Dr P

20-01-2010, 12:22 AM

Lepperfish

20-01-2010, 03:32 AM

eg5civic

20-01-2010, 08:00 AM

Your tripping if you think your going to get any decent DC2R for sub 15k. I wouldn't let mine go for anything sub 20k. Not that I want to sell.

There are plenty of kids out there trying to sell their riced up DC2R's for around the 15k mark that have been through 4,5,6 owners etc.

But people who have owned them from new or near new and are true enthusiasts are different and I think thats why people try and ask higher then normal prices for their DC2R's.. DL001 and Zilli can appreciate this and I'm sure quite a few more people around here.

If I had 30k to spend on a car right now. I'd be out looking for a clean EVO VIII. I don't think anything can touch the CT9A for the money.

Not to mention all of its driver assists would ease op's mind about the arse end coming round on roundabout. ;)

I can say i have had a few scares, and trust me, alot of cars get that twitchy oversteer if braking hard and turning mid corner, and its alot more scary in a fwd (imho) because you cant control it, you just have to power out of it.

I know it doesnt count to much and i'll probably get flamed, but mid corner and slamming on the brakes physics says front ends stopping but rear end is still swinging round the bend (if you see what i'm getting at)

In this situation i'd personally prefer a rwd. I mean you can countersteer and ease on the brakes... In a fwd.. i find the only thing to do is to brake and hope to stop before the gutter, or you have to power out of the corner and let it pull the ass back in.

Thats what i've found from personal experience

http://www.guitarsandaudio.com/extras/shite/flamesuit.jpg

t200

20-01-2010, 08:04 AM

Not a massive Honda expert but it sounds like the thread starter is a douche who doesn't know how to drive.

Try driving a Jeep Wrangler on mud terrain tyres in the wet and enjoy the short wheelbase/rwd. That is fun times in roundabouts.

All cars take some time to learn to drive properly. If the car was unsafe it would not be on the road!!

BTW I'd have the S2K in a heartbeat after the way I saw one driven on Dandy rd.

Yeah, your right Dr P(oof).

I did'nt realise that you were Jenson Button's Wang, you know, coz you're awesome .

I'm off to the Jeep forums now, maybe i can learn something.....dic*head:thumbdwn:

You know, a proper response could have been something like:

"I think an S2k might be a bit tricky for you to handle and you will need more experience, and a decent DC2R won't be dropping down to 14 k any time soon, so maybe you should look at other types of cars available" (which is what I picked up from the other sensible responses on this thread.

But then again, what would I know, I'm a douche:p

Oh, had a look at redbook just then
http://redbook.com.au/used-cars/details.aspx?R=76603&__Qpb=true&Cr=4&__Ns=p_Make_String%7c0%7c%7cp_ClassificationType_S tring%7c0%7c%7cp_Family_String%7c0%7c%7cp_Year_Str ing%7c1%7c%7cp_SequenceNum_Int32%7c0&__N=2994%204294954492%204294843359&silo=1300&__No=120&seot=1&__Nne=15&trecs=126&__sid=1254558879B4

Since when have Jeeps been RWD???
If you've driven a jeep and can't tell the difference between 4WD and RWD you can not drive for absolute shite. If you read the post properly, I admitted that my skills are not up to par with some of the other drivers here. Unlike you who comes on pretending to know something about driving:thumbdwn:

No you're not a Honda expert, and obviously you're no car expert either, so get the hell out my thread and leave it to people who may have a real opinion.:wave::wave:

aozora

20-01-2010, 12:18 PM

BTW I'd have the S2K in a heartbeat after the way I saw one driven on Dandy rd.

That wasn't a White S2K by any chance with custom plates was it? :p

Anyway on-topic... I don't want this reduced to a FWD vs. RWD topic but in my eyes ignoring driver ability, there are a few bad points to be made.

S2000
- Only 2 seater
- Less aftermarket parts available LOCALLY in comparison to a DC2R thus, aftermarket part prices will have to consider shipping costs
- Limited boot space

DC2R
- FWD (Yes I believe this is a down side)
- Getting old and outdated
- Resale value a consideration

BOTH are driver's cars. And for the record I personally don't consider Evo's a driver's car.
Anyway, with those points in mind - if you need to bring stuff and other people around daily, the S2k isn't for you. On the other hand, if you're in it PURELY for the drive and fun - the S2k is a really awesome car.

Now driver skill wise, if you've come from a 300ZX, the S2000 is quite manageable. Like many have said on S2ki - it's all up to the driver to control the car's characteristics. So those new to RWD, may not feel confident enough to test those limits. It's really a personal choice in the end. My best mate's girl friend has a S2k and I've never heard of her having any issues, and it's a daily :) I wouldn't exactly consider her a track junkie either.
If you've had an accident in the past with the rear stepping out or whatever - take an advanced/defensive driver's course. S2K or DC2R, both can oversteer. I've experienced lift-off oversteer in a DC2R and I've experienced oversteer in the S2K... now that said, IT'S ALL UP TO THE DRIVER TO CONTROL THE CAR REGARDLESS OF DRIVELINE LAYOUT.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you're slightly offended at people commenting on your experience. Don't be. I'm sure alot of people here are far from seasoned drivers when all it takes is practice and familiarity.

Basically if you drive like an idiot in either car, it's going to react just the same.

Now the good points...

S2000
- RWD fun
- Top down is very refreshing on summer nights
- If both cars were modded equally, the S2000 will come out on top
- Steering response is awesome

DC2R
- More familiar FWD platform for many
- Boot space and 5 seater a plus
- Can borrow parts from other DC2s (not all obviously)
- And because of more enthusiasts with DC2s, more aftermarket parts available in Aus

And jords... if that's your personal preference. Enjoy :)
And lastly just for the record... I've driven quite a few DC2Rs and personally own a S2K (The DC2R was on the cards at one stage but in the end, I'm really not a fan of FWD).

I hope this helps in your decision...!

Dr P

20-01-2010, 03:35 PM

hahaha...thought I might garner that sort of response.

I may just know a little more about a Wrangler than you so I wouldn't go down that track.

Having grown up in RWD cars and now owning a Megane Sport I actually think its more difficult to drive FWD with regards to handling dynamics.

Maybe with regards to price you should look elsewhere at cars. Maybe a Clio sport would be right on your money and a hell of lot of car and fun also. (they handle like a go-kart)

Was that more helpful?

Perry

20-01-2010, 04:00 PM

I've owned both of the following cars mentioned. If money is an issue i'll stick with a dc2r even slight modification such as sussy, intake and exhaust it wont put a hole in your wallet.
Than again with a s2k you will be happy just changing the intake and exhaust. As a daily I'll choose dc2r.

pure_na

20-01-2010, 04:22 PM

Not to mention all of its driver assists would ease op's mind about the arse end coming round on roundabout. ;)

I can say i have had a few scares, and trust me, alot of cars get that twitchy oversteer if braking hard and turning mid corner, and its alot more scary in a fwd (imho) because you cant control it, you just have to power out of it.

I know it doesnt count to much and i'll probably get flamed, but mid corner and slamming on the brakes physics says front ends stopping but rear end is still swinging round the bend (if you see what i'm getting at)

In this situation i'd personally prefer a rwd. I mean you can countersteer and ease on the brakes... In a fwd.. i find the only thing to do is to brake and hope to stop before the gutter, or you have to power out of the corner and let it pull the ass back in.

Thats what i've found from personal experience

http://www.guitarsandaudio.com/extras/shite/flamesuit.jpg

i completely agree with you. as a novice driver, i had no problem losing/gaining/losing/gaining control of a rwd in corners. fwd f^cking surprised the living sh*t out of me, and lets just say i had a bit more trouble.

i am in no way saying that one is better than the other, it's just that i'd like to hope the people commenting on how easy it is to drive a fwd dc2r can/have actually driven one properly, because taking my dc2r around certain roads was a LOT harder than any rwd i had taken.

stndrd

28-01-2010, 07:04 PM

at the end of the day as a few people have commented - GO OUT AND DRIVE BOTH

imo i dont see the point in asking people is this better or is that better because everyone is an individual and has their own opinions. the only way for you to make up your mind is to experience it yourself and have a long hard think.

if you scared about driving an s2k around a wet round-a-bout, let me know when your in melbourne next and i will show you what its like to have a 5L manual ute step on you thru a round-a-bout. i have about 4,000 of the things in the estate i live in, they are all single lane and its easier to control than you think mate

IF20CI

05-02-2010, 02:20 PM

try that in any car, and not specifically the S2000, and im sure general physics will tell u the same story :)

Agree with Stainmaster and ChromZ.
I guess you don’t needa be Isaac Newton to understand this simple law of physic.
And if u r that concern about the roundabout issue, I guess “Tangara” is more suitable for you.

Midnight_motors

08-02-2010, 01:51 AM

I really don't know why u are fussed about losing control in the car. IF YOU THINK YOUR GONNA LOSE IT DON'T DRIVE FAST! You don't see people lose control when driving slow. If u wanna take it to the next level, read above. There are many advanced driving courses out there. Don't drive like a maniac if u think your gonna lose it cause you will. Cars are not forgiving! YOU WILL END UP KILLING YOURSELF OR SOMEONE ELSE. Could you really live with someone elses blood on your hands?. Easy as that. S2k and teg. had and driven both. S2k looks WAY BETTER... obviously.... so if u want a chick magnet s2k is the way to go.

2ds

09-02-2010, 08:49 PM

^ I'm thinking the exact same thing Jap. It's almost like saying CRXs are better than NSXs...

Them sir are fightin words!

You bring your NSX and we'll race!

trentd

10-02-2010, 03:12 PM

its called counter steer lol. the s2000 will stick to the road better than what the 300zx will. 300zx's weigh like 2 tonnes and there a horrible car.

Back to topic, i think that the s2000 would be a really fun car, then aain so would the dc2r.
Drive both, look at both, think abut what you want to do with both, and compare.
i'm in melbourne and i live in a suburb called eltham, there is a round about at every intersection. and the fact that people have done that many skids around them makes them more slippy.
I drive my mates cars often which have spolls and lock diffs and mate when you slide out, don't throw your hands in the air and scream for help like they taught you in primary school, because that doesn''t work.
Line up your front wheels with the direction of the road and release the accelerator.
simple you might get jerked around a little bit. but its better then facing the opposite direction on a busy roadabout.
Think of it this way, if you come into a corner and release the accelerator and just turn with no acceleration you have te same risk as a fwd car sliding out.
you will be alright mate, trust me, you won't take your first turn an go drifting gutter to gutter before you lose control.

Mikecivic78

17-02-2010, 09:25 PM

Interesting thread.

I've been checking the market for DC2rs here in Brisbane. I may/may not buy one mid year. I'm looking for a car up to $16k.

Top book value for a DC2r is about $13,300 and I assume that would be for an example with not much more than 90,000kms on the clock. http://www.redbook.com.au/used-cars/details.aspx?R=70426&__Qpb=true&Cr=2&__Ns=p_Make_String%7c0%7c%7cp_ClassificationType_S tring%7c0%7c%7cp_Family_String%7c0%7c%7cp_Year_Str ing%7c1%7c%7cp_SequenceNum_Int32%7c0&__N=2994%204294956040%204294843457%204294965791&silo=1300&seot=1&__Nne=15&trecs=6&__sid=126DD61E656E

There are 3 on sale on carpoint in Bris, they all have roughly 140-150,000 on the clock and the owners are asking around $15-16K. Now I havent actually inspected these cars personally, but I doubt that they are in immaculate condition, so they are basically grossly overpriced.

You have to remember, the DC2r is a car that normal everyday drivers don't buy. The cars are made to be ridden hard. It's getting rarer to find one thats on sale by it's 1st or 2nd middle-aged owner who services it at Honda and hasn't modded it. I prefer to buy a car that has had an easy life and hasn't been modded or thrashed. I know u agree with me there.

It'll take you about 6 months+ to find a good clean DC2r ( if your lucky). 1 or $2 k over the bookvalue price is ok if Ks are really low and car has been taken care of.

You have said that Canberra has many roundabouts and expressed doubts about controlling a short wheelbase RWD, so IMHO the DC2r would be the car for you, if u wanna play it safe.

If ur in the sub-20k price bracket, u can also look into an s15 (Nissan 200sx). Don't flame me for this guys, it's a good car. Turbo 2.0 Ltr (sexy shape), longer wheelbase and an absolute treat to drive. Not much lag either. Much better value than the S2k. Insurance cost is very similar.

Thats my 2c,

MIke

Mikecivic78

17-02-2010, 09:31 PM

fatboyz39

17-02-2010, 09:36 PM

Go with the S2k.:thumbsup:

t200

20-02-2010, 05:48 PM

Go with the S2k.:thumbsup:

Hey guys, thanks for all the reply's (thread crappers not included)....

I honestly didn't think i'd get flamed so much for asking such a simple question.....:zip::zip:

Any way, I'm glad to say that I picked up my new car last week, a black 2008 Civic type r.

While not as hypo as the s2k and the DC2R, the civic was offered at such a great price, i don't think that i could have forgiven myself if I had walked away.

For those using this thread for reference, I had the chance to also test drive an ITR and an S2k and I have to say that the ITR definitely surprised me. If you can find a good one for $16k, GRAB IT!

The ones that were up to my standards were between $19 and $22k, which is why i spent a bit more for a newer car. As a street car I love my new civic. Apart from an obstructed rear view due to the wing, some might say that the car is a bit stiff, but on smooth roads it awesome. I guess at the end of the day, i was more happy to have warranty and a lower kay car than spend 20-25 grand on a 10 yr old car.

Again, thanks for all your help and input (especially to aozora, Jap S2k and Ferrari + others)

(Hopefully I won't have to start another thread anytime soon:p)
Cheers,
t200

Dr P

20-02-2010, 07:59 PM

you know I would have bought same car....

Mikecivic78

20-02-2010, 08:11 PM

Nice choice ts200. The Civic type R is the only current model Hi-Performance FWD Honda on the market atm. It could'a had 4 wheel independent suspension, but apart from that its a very nice car.

You'll find it good for Canberra traffic and it'll be nice and easy to drive. Glad to hear you got to feel the power of the ITR. IMO its the best Aussie delivered FWD Honda ever released down under.

Enjoy ur new purchase.

foowoei69

22-06-2010, 05:06 PM

I know it's abit late now but. Ever thought of building an eg? With type r everything. Probaly have cash left over for more parts too? I built one a while back with type r engine gbox and all 4 corners with wheels, koni red, brakes, sway bars + asr subframe brace. all for under 12K car included. And it used to beat s2ks on the street. Stock ones anyways.
I'm driving an S now but I still wish I never sold my eg. Probably build another when I find some more funds. Lol I like the fact u can be a complete dick with it(eg flat shift gears all day and never had a gbox or diff prob) and u don't have to worry about it at all. It seemed over engineered which is a good thing. Unlike the s. Still just as fun if not more fun but less forgiving and abit more fragile from what I read. Haven't had probs with my s.(touch wood) But it does feel more fragile than the dc2. And parts cost more than the other hondas.

newpaddy3

22-06-2010, 10:00 PM

DC2R will follow a similar path to the old mustangs, they will become a collectors item.

if you want to make an investment go for a DC2R.

even if i am wrong about them following the path of the mustang, they will have a better depreciation value and if you choose to sell it later on you will not loose as much money.

that's just me thinking about money lol, i would prefer an s2000 because dc2s don't really have a lot of room inside them lol

Ferrari

23-06-2010, 08:18 AM

Have you even sat in an s2000? The dc2 has massive space in the interior and storage wise. The s2000 is alot more intimate!

PeppeX

23-06-2010, 11:20 AM

This thread was a good read :) I am thinking between DC5R and S2000

Moey.C

23-06-2010, 04:28 PM

haha whattt dc2 has lessspace inside than the s2k??? ???.... ?!! ? lol

3days after my mate buying his s2000 i bought my dc2r.. i love it. vtec screams sits low goes well. and i still find myself telling my friend 2 come pick me up lol rather than me driving my car... there is just something about s2000's they are sexy and sporty and had i had the money, i would have probably had one sitting in my garage instead of my R . . . and everything youve mentioned is correct. trying to find a dc2r under 100xxx kms with srevice history etc your going to have to be prepared to fork out the extra $$$.

newpaddy3

23-06-2010, 04:41 PM

yeah but with an S2000 you can open the top

that's what I was refering too, I should have been more clear

because in my DC2 my head hits the roof even when I'm bending my back/tilting my head

I didn't really notice that when I test drove and it bugs me heaps so I'm trying to move it on.

fromdeeeast

23-06-2010, 04:51 PM

Mate your comparing 2 different cars with 2 different prices.

If anything it seems you don't want an s2000, alright sure thing.

But if you have the cash get a DC5R, since your comparing it to an s2000 price wise. DC5R so much nicer than the DC2R imo. Newer, sleeker etc

Seems like you want people to convince you to get an s2000, if you don't really want one then don't get one, get a DC2R if its what you want.

As been said clean DC2Rs are expensive, I'd rather put 5k on top that I would fixing and cleaning it up an get a DC5R, more likely to find a cleaner one, newer, looks sportier.

Nuff said

PeppeX

23-06-2010, 05:26 PM

Ok, just wondering what would be faster off the light? The DC5R seems to be lighter and have max torque is at 6000rpm

DC5 Integra Type R
Engine: K20A2 2.0L DOHC i-VTEC, 147kW@7400RPM, 192Nm@6000RPM
Weight: 1160Kg (without Air Conditioning - Optional)

S2000 F20C
Engine: 237 bhp (177 kW; 240 PS) @ 8,300 rpm (US & EU)
Weight: 1,299 kg

S2000 F22C1
Engine: 237 bhp (177 kW; 240 PS) @ 7,800 rpm (US)
Weight: 1,295 kg

Moey.C

24-06-2010, 03:38 AM

stock 2 stock
off the lights

s2k
dc2r
dc5r

however dc2 n 5 are very very similar

PeppeX

24-06-2010, 07:01 AM

stock 2 stock
off the lights

s2k
dc2r
dc5r

however dc2 n 5 are very very similar

Why would s2k be first? And why would dc2r beat dc5r? Elaborate please?

DC2R
Engine: 193 PS (142 kW; 190 hp) @ 8200 rpm & 127 lb·ft (172 N·m) @ 7500 rpm
Weight: 1,087Kg (with A/C)

dciisir

24-06-2010, 08:51 AM

Why would s2k be first? And why would dc2r beat dc5r? Elaborate please?

DC2R
Engine: 193 PS (142 kW; 190 hp) @ 8200 rpm & 127 lb·ft (172 N·m) @ 7500 rpm
Weight: 1,087Kg (with A/C)

Not sure if you are being sarcastic there.. but the above are facts... stock that is. I have seen stock s2ks doing sub 14's in 0-400m. As for dc2r vs dc5r, well I think that depends on which dc5r we are referring to. I think the jap spec ones would take on the dc2r.

PeppeX

24-06-2010, 08:54 AM

euromandeluxe

24-06-2010, 12:15 PM

Nah wasnt being sarcastic, just want to know why s2k is faster of the start, is there something else i aint taking into consideration? I have always heard ppl say the DC5R is faster than the DC2R cos it has more torque down low

gearing, tyres and traction, launch, a lot comes down to driver.
once you're into the powerband, aside from the yards you've already lost, low down torque isn't important for a straight line race (depending on how far you race - the further you race the less important the torque is)

edit: for a high revving close ratio Honda, anyway :)