distributor gone?

[drewh01]

Hi all,

I've got a '95 Integra VTi-R... had a very 'interesting' series of events happen this morning - went to put petrol, car started fine. Put the petrol in, was going out of the stations onto the road and them boom - the car stalled. Tried to start it again a few times, but nothing at all. My first thought was 'fuel contamination'.

Called RACQ and in about an hour a tow truck came and towed it back home. The RACQ patrol then came home and checked the car.

The fuel pump was working fine as he loosened the pressure regulator and fuel spurted out a bit. He then took out a spark plug & ign wire, and got me to try starting the car (to check if there was a spark). Answer - no spark, nothing.

So he said he thinks its the distributor (which makes sense). Incidentally, I was hearing a high pitched, but constant noise from the engine bay for the last few months. Thought it was a vacuum leak as it continued a few seconds after switching the engine off, but maybe it was actually the distributor.

What should my next move be? I have the service manual, and it showed how to test the ignition coil (for a certain resistance) so I was going to do that. Is there anyway I could narrow it down to say the rotor button etc (the RACQ guy said some Hondas had problems with it).

I'm hoping I don't have to replace the whole dist (be like $1000+ right)....!

Appreciate anyones help/input, thanks!
Andrew

[MRK20CRX]

Was the sound u were hearing from the bay like a grinding sound, and was it while driving or on idle? My distributor was dying and it made a grinding and wierd whirling sound, so I got a new obd0 dizzy from distributor king in the US for 260us bucks and spoon leads with iridium plugs, solved the problem and the lil crx is running at it's best

[drewh01]

hiya - no the noise was a high-pitched constant 'whine'. Occasionally it wouldnt be there, and if I then revved the engine a bit it would be noticeable. It also stayed on a few seconds after switching the engine off.

They two things might not be connected... I'm more worried about what to do re this distributor / checking to see what is gone.

[MRK20CRX]

That sucks man, I knew my dizzy was gone because the noise was come directly from the dizzy so it was an easy fix. When mine died I could still turn the engine on, but it would misfire and eventually just stall, was it misfiring? Was the CEL (check engine light) on?

[drewh01]

nup didnt misfire at all - I did notice fuel economy was a fair bit down (like 80 less km's per tank), but thought that noise might have been a vacuum leak and so it was running richer.

The car started pretty much fine when going to put petrol, and even after filling and starting no signs of misfiring - until i got onto the road 15 seconds later, and then all the lights came on the dash and it stalled.

You know that malfunction light thing - does it flash for distributor problems? (you know you short the ECU connector and then it flashes depending on the problem).

Thanks for your help man :)

[beeza]

Yeah,do an ECU code check and see what comes up:

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8218&highlight=ecu+code+check

You can get a whole dizzy from the wreckers for $200.

Unless you know someone with the same car,then you can swap in thier rotor,icm etc and see which one was the culprit.

I've been through this a couple of times and now have a spare coil,icm,dizzy cap.So whatever you don't use from the dizzy,you got spare anyways.

[MRK20CRX]

Don't use second hand dizzy, always best to get brand new, if you have problems with a second hand one, you'll be back to square one, so u can perfect the timing to spec, if I could hear the noise, and if it's similar to the problem that I had, it would definitely be the dizzy, how many kms are on the car

[beeza]

True,it's just that it's nearly always a case of need it now!

It would be best to wait though and buy new,forsure forsure.

[Joee]

Im actually having the same problem at the moment..... Re-did the fuel pump and had the dizzy overhauled but its still happening..... Thats not to say that if you replace your dizzy it will happen..... Anyway take your dizzy to your mechanic and get them to send it off 2 get overhauled.... They changed the ignitor and rotor cap for me and it was under $200.

[beeza]

So what will U do now Joe?

[Joee]

So what will U do now Joe?

No idea, Ive tried it a couple of times over the past few hours and it wont start. Should be able to crank over tomorrow so ill drive it back into the garage and start testing the harness and connections. It is however pulling a code 15 if that helps anybody.

[beeza]

Code 15 - Ignition output signal

Can drive ya nuts,these sort of things.

U can get a diagnostics fella to come around and hook up a computer to it and find EXACTLY where the problem is,might cost $150-$200 though.

[jon22]

sure does sound like your dizzy to me. exact same thing happened to me with my crx. wud start fine but then wud randomly die and not start again. makes sense if your getting no sparks as well. just get a mate or find someone you could borrow there dizzy just to trouble shoot.

[beeza]

That sounds exactly like the ICM - Ignition control Module.They are about $60 and it sits in the dizzy.

[drewh01]

thanks for everyones help, really appreciate it.

beeza, was that to me about the ICM?

I took the Dizzy cap off, to test the coil + and -'s ... but annoyingly, cant work out how to loosen / take off the rotor button. according to the service manual, there is a bolt at the bottom pointing upwards, that holds the rotor button in (it definitely feels like something is, as i tried to coax it off otherwise). Any ideas how to remove it? I have to take it out, then the leak cover, to get to those terminals on the coil.

From there there is a couple of things I was going to try (spoke to a family friend who works at RACQ): check 12V is at the + of the + terminal on the coil, check that the -ve terminal is pulsing voltage like an AC signal (when cranking the engine), and then as the s.manual says check the resistances across the + and -, and then the secondary winding and they should be within a certain range.

One thing I did check was that the rotor was actually turning, just in case it could have been a disastrous timing belt issue (tho that was changed only 2 years ago). Can never be too sure.

[Limbo]

Don't use second hand dizzy, always best to get brand new, if you have problems with a second hand one, you'll be back to square one, so u can perfect the timing to spec, if I could hear the noise, and if it's similar to the problem that I had, it would definitely be the dizzy, how many kms are on the car

I agree, a new Dizzy. That's wat i ended up doing also. After messing around with things a new distributor is the way to go. Ebay US has the cheapest and best i've seen.
Distributor king, is where i got mine from also.:thumbsup:

I changed ECU, leads, coil, ignitor, main relay and in the end i just gave up and got a new DIzzy and everything fixed itself.

P.S i checked all the bits individually and they all were working, even the dizzy sensors. I beleive it was the bearing in the dizzy giving out

[drewh01]

Anyone know how to get the damn rotor off? The service manual shows a bolt going into it from below, but I can't find a single thing - if I feel at the bottom of the rotor/leak cover all I can feel is wires, no bolt as such. Its driving me mad.... just cant work out how to take it off.

[drewh01]

I got the screw holding on the rotor to show now... the only problem is, its SUPER tight. I've tried pretty hard to loosen it, but to no avail (and obviously I don't want to strip the head).

Any ideas how to loosen it? What about gently hitting the screwdriver with a mallet while its in the screw?

[beeza]

U should be able to 'crack it' with a tight fitting screwdriver.One that fits nice and snug in there.It does do up real tight sometimes.

I was talking to Jon about the ICM drew.I dont think your problem is the ICM but it could well be aswell.

[Joee]

Came across this website....

http://techauto.awardspace.com/index.html

Exellent..... I just pulled out my main relay and am going to give it a shot tomorrow...... Lets hope it works. This site should be able to help you.

[beeza]

Great find! I did think of that,damn.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31796&highlight=main+relay+repair

[drewh01]

Ok things have gone from not so bad to much worse.... tried taking the bolt off, and even got an Uncle who works at RACQ's expert help - the bolt head has wasted away enough that it wont grip to loosen. It isnt really THAT wasted, but its worn and being on so super tight (why do they need to make it SO tight), there is no chance of removing the bolt. Uncle even used a special snap on tools screwdriver made just for worn head screws, as well as this other one which had extra fins and is meant to be able to grip, but no luck.

My thought was to break the rotor button, then the screw will come out without a problem and then I can check everything. But, rotor button has to be ordered from Japan ($60) which will take 6 WEEKS!!!! (I didnt actually break it btw).

Any innovative ideas I can try? maybe somehow cut a wide flat head thread into the screw (wider then the original) and then just a flat head... ?

Any ideas?

[beeza]

Need a pic,but it does sound like snappage is in order.Stupid screw!!

But U will be able to get a rotor off here and have it by friday surely!!

[drewh01]

Ok great news... got the screw out somehow (minor miracle.. it was so tight it wasnt funny) and took the rotor off. BUT, I checked the ignition coil (checking for resistance as per the service manual).... resistance between A and B should be 0.6-0.8, mine was 0.9.... between secondary winding and +ve should be 12.9-19.8, mine was about 11.3. So pretty close to the set figures... could it be the coil? what sort of tolerance is there for those set figures?

Also tried checking the ICM... as the s/manual said for battery voltage at a couple of points, most that I could check did have it.

Any ideas? thanks for everyone's help.

[Jon_51]

+1 for new dizzy from distributor king. couple weeks for shipping will be worth not having to worry about it for another 10 years.

[beeza]

Wow,they even sell one for my car,d16y4! $155 US

Great to know!

[beeza]

Ok great news... got the screw out somehow (minor miracle.. it was so tight it wasnt funny) and took the rotor off. BUT, I checked the ignition coil (checking for resistance as per the service manual).... resistance between A and B should be 0.6-0.8, mine was 0.9.... between secondary winding and +ve should be 12.9-19.8, mine was about 11.3. So pretty close to the set figures... could it be the coil? what sort of tolerance is there for those set figures?

Also tried checking the ICM... as the s/manual said for battery voltage at a couple of points, most that I could check did have it.

Any ideas? thanks for everyone's help.

Ya never get solid results from the tests..just need to swap in knowing working parts,one by one.

[drewh01]

Hedged my bets, bought a new ignition coil (oem from Southside Honda) and voila, car works beautifully again!

So nice to have the car back on the road again.

Beeza and co - thanks for your help.

[beeza]

Ur welcome,good one!

[Joee]

Now if only i could solve my issues :(

[beeza]

How's that code 15 goin'?

[Joee]

Still havnt been able to figure it out..... Had it towed to a mechanic this morning, Lets hope he has some better luck.

[Centurius]

Wow,they even sell one for my car,d16y4! $155 US

Great to know!

yes but if you get it and it's a lemon straight out of the box, their 'lifetime warranty' means jack shit because they won't get back to you...

mine had issues from the day i installed it, didn't know it was the cause until it gave up all together about a month later.

[JasonGilholme]

I'm running a distributor king dizzy. Haven't had any troubles with it at all, even had follow up questions which they answered quickly and accurately.

Comes with a higher temperature rated ICM then the OEM honda unit and is less then a quarter of the price. i'd rather pay the few extra bucks for a DK one then one from a wreckers.

[specialst]

Hey Joe
It might be worth having a read of my experience...
My Teg died in the recent heat too and it ended up being my ICM. I also notice thats something u havent tried.

Have a read here about my episode:
http://ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127008
and if it is Ur ICM, read here for the fix:
http://ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127058

Goodluck with it!
Feel free to ask any questions as we will all try to answer them. Also describe how it happened to you, would help.

[beeza]

That's (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-96-00-Honda-Civic-1-6L-Hitachi-Ignition-distributor_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5885c153d0Q QitemZ380201161680QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPart sQ5fAccessories) my dizzy!

I'm in 2 minds whether to buy one or not.

I would have to modify it like this (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119576&highlight=msd+ignition+install) too.

Hmmmm

[JasonGilholme]

why do you have an aftermarket ignition system though? when the motor is relatively stock?

Theres stock ignition systems out there in turbo honda's that run 10's!!

IMO stick with the stock, sell the MSD, cleaner looking bay and simpler setup. :thumbsup:

[beeza]

I Love my MSD system,it was the first,or one of,mods I did.

I know it's not needed BUT I LOVE IT!

The review is in the link above.