dodgy civic?

[JasoN_-]

hey guys ive just recently purchased a honda civic 1996 from a dealership and im suspecting a faulty or dead car..

its a Honda Civic GLI 1996 model and after getting a few friends to look at it im suspecting that the car has been tampered. im suspecting that the odometer has been changed? is there a way to check this?

The engine runs at 1100 rpm on idle, and there is a rattle due to a broken clutch bearing. i was just wondering if anyone knows what im covered and what course of action i should take? can i return the car to the dealership?

it seems like a good car but i dont know.. few friends have been saying they have seen this car on these forums and on firesport..

thanks, jason.

[kcokla]

in relation to the odometer, usually a sign of tampering is if the numbers dont match up horizontally,

for example if its " 123,456"
perhaps a 2-3-4 etc any of the numbers are not straight.
having said that the last digit moves constantly so if that is not straight it could be reasonable.
further more if you can somehow prove its been tampered with and the car is not as advertised, you can take legal action against the dealership.

[Mikecivic78]

in relation to the odometer, usually a sign of tampering is if the numbers dont match up horizontally,

for example if its " 123,456"
perhaps a 2-3-4 etc any of the numbers are not straight.
having said that the last digit moves constantly so if that is not straight it could be reasonable.
further more if you can somehow prove its been tampered with and the car is not as advertised, you can take legal action against the dealership.

I agree, Hondas are usually pretty good on their odometers, and the numbers should look straight. Sometimes they can look a little crooked, for example if u have just passed 1,000ks (eg; 130,001) it might look a bit crooked for a few Ks.

[CB7_OWNER]

When you purchased the car from dealer ,did it come with warranty? get them to fix it ASAP. Doubt they will refund the price of whole car even if you no longer want it.

[JasoN_-]

just rang up the guy, as far as warranty goes the car isnt covered because its older than 10 years? are dealers entitled to fix the car? how can i check the true odometer reading of the car?

[90LAN]

you can call dept transport to confirm the last odo readign when it was sold before you bought the car

warranty covers cars for any age if they have waranty when you buy the car from a dealership
thats part of the reason why you pay more

usually warranty only covers up to a certain amount for certain items check your fine print if you got your warranty certificate

some warranties are 3,6,12 months

call your MTA( motor traders assc) to ask what your rights are and tell them whats is wrong with the car
IF its a real recent purchase
if he is licensed then you have a leg to stand on

[PlatinumVisuals]

As Lan said,

Just because it is more then 10 years old it doesn't mean it can't have warranty, they are just lying to you!

Get onto this ASAP mate!

Good luck

[JasoN_-]

can you fellas direct me to the people i have to call? i have no idea what to do.

just called up vicroads and they cant tell me the previous odometer recording..

who would i call in regards of finding my rights of the car purchase in victoria?

[PlatinumVisuals]

Quoted from Victoria Consumer Affairs:


When is a business required to give a refund?
A customer has a right to ask for a refund if any of the implied conditions have not been met. This means a refund would be in order if the goods:

* are faulty (even when the fault only becomes obvious after use)
* are unfit for their purpose – which means they won’t do what the customer reasonably expected them to do
* don’t match the description or sample shown
* came with an extra promise about refunds.

A business may offer to repair, exchange or provide a credit note. However in these circumstances the customer does have the right to insist on a refund.

Note: Goods that are "on sale" must be treated in the same way as ordinary stock when determining a refund. The implied conditions cover them regardless of their sale status.

Here is the helpline number:

1300 55 81 81

Give them a call as they will give the best answers for you.


* be fit for their intended purpose
they must do the job the customer reasonably expects them to do or described to the salesperson at the time of the sale. A toaster should toast, a raincoat should be waterproof and shoes bought for hiking should be suitable for walking long distances.

* be of merchantable quality
goods must meet a basic level of quality and performance, bearing in mind their price and the way they were described. They should not be faulty (unless clearly labelled so). A $200 watch should not break down in a week.

* match any sample or description given
whether the description is face to face, on the label or packaging or in any promotional material. A shirt labelled as cotton should not turn out to be polyester.

If any of these implied conditions are not met, a customer is within their rights to ask for a refund.

Express warranties
Express warranties differ from implied conditions because they are set by the business or manufacturer and usually written down. An express warranty guarantees to rectify certain problems should they arise.

An express warranty does not cancel out and cannot limit the implied conditions in any way. The implied conditions apply regardless of the terms of the express warranty. For example, if the express warranty for a television lasted only a year and a fault developed soon after, a customer may still have a right under the implied conditions to claim some form of redress, since it is reasonable to expect a television to last longer than a year.

Limiting liability
Implied conditions cannot be modified, excluded or restricted in any way. This means that a business cannot put a limit on their liability in the sale of personal, household and domestic goods. For example, a business cannot necessarily refuse to refund faulty items because they are on sale or have been opened or worn. A fault may only become apparent after normal use or wear.

http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/CA256EB5000644CE/page/Shopping+Trading+%26+Pricing-Refunds-Laws+applying+to+refunds?OpenDocument&1=920-Shopping+Trading+%26+Pricing~&2=140-Refunds~&3=020-Laws+applying+to+refunds~

[JasoN_-]

just called them and ANY car thats older than 10 years isnt covered at all by warrenty and the dealer isnt obliged to do anything, according to consumer affairs... they said my best bet is trying to prove that the car wasnt as sold as advertised.

[PlatinumVisuals]

That's weird, I had brought a Honda Civic 95 Model 2 years ago and it had 6 months warranty on parts and labour!

Must be different in VIC.

[JasoN_-]

no idea. was wondering if anyone knows if there is a cooling off period for cars? sorry just need to get this sorted out asap, dont want my hard earned money becoming a pile of trash.

is there anything else i can do to fix this mess?

[PlatinumVisuals]

Best bet would be to search on VIC Consumer affairs website that I mentioned in my earlier post, all your answers should be there.

[wasabi-des]

Going on my experience with contract law, your best bet will be to go through the paperwork that you signed with the dealer when you purchased the car with a fine toothed comb.

Did the seller offer a warranty on the car when you bought it?
- If yes, then the conditions (i.e. time period and what is covered by the warranty) should have been written into the contract.
- If not, then the seller is under no contractual obligation to take back the car and refund your money. Going by what the Vic Consumer Affairs told you, that since the car is more than 10 years old, the dealer wasn't required to give you a warranty by law. (Although this doesn't mean that some dealers won't offer a warranty on old cars, as per PlatinumVisuals' comment, they're just under no legal obligation).

Did the dealer make any specific claims about the defects that you've discovered? i.e. "the gearbox is in perfect working order" or "the engine and gearbox were reconditioned so many km's ago" etc. Was there a mechanic's report / road worthy certificate that came with the car?
- If yes, even if the claims were verbal, then you might have a case in getting those particular defects repaired. (A defective thrust bearing should've been picked up by a competent mechanic doing the road worthy?)
- If the dealer didn't make any claims about the particular defects, than unfortunately you don't have much leverage...

With regards to the odometer reading, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to get the odometer history from Vicroads, as this is recorded every time the car changes hands... They even have a page on requesting vehicle information:

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/ChangeOfVehicleDetails/RequestingVehicleInformation.htm#VehicleBuyer

My advice with handling this contract dispute is to see if you can get answers to the above questions, get all the facts that you can together, then contact the dealer only if you have a strong case against them.

Hope this helps & good luck.

- K

[Mikecivic78]

Problem with odometer is that if they wound it back, they would of done it before registering it with the dept of transport. It was probably owned for a long period of time by the previous owner, so their rolling back can't be proved.

It makes me angry hearing about stories like this. My previous Civic was a big ???? with regards to odometer... the numbers became crookeder and crookeder as the Ks were put on by me. On the other hand, car seemed in real good shape. I bought it from a mechanic/part time dealer, and i think that in reality, he shaved probably about 70,000 off IMO. Still, i managed to sell it privately later when i upgraded for a really good price, so I was lucky.

Used car dealers and the like are really dodgy mate. I know some of the tricks of the trade and the shit they do... dont even get me started.

Dealers overcharge. Private buying is best IMO, and remember, always get a good mechanic to check it out, even if it's from a dealer.

Unfortunately, it'll be like getting blood from a stone trying to get them to refund ur cash. Threaten them, call the ACCC or whatever and kick up the biggest stink and maybe u can get something.

I wish u luck bro'

Mike

[tsg88]

We stick with private when buying older cars, or go to reputable dealers.. If you can post a picture of the odometer here most people should be able to tell if it's been wound back, I have seen a wound back one and it was waaay out lol. Mechanical ones are easier to detect than digital, unless the mechanical odometer has been swapped out, or its a different cluster entirely.

I usually sit there and work out the next move for the odometer, if it seems like it checks out then its probably alright, if the dash doesn't look tampered with in that area. Part of the reason I am in two minds with changing the cluster in mine to one with a tacho is for resale, I wanna upgrade later this year when money is better.

Either way they should fix the other problems noticed with the vehicle, that's part of the deal when buying from a dealer isn't it? Paying a bit extra for that extra peace of mind...

[Mikecivic78]

We stick with private when buying older cars, or go to reputable dealers.. If you can post a picture of the odometer here most people should be able to tell if it's been wound back

I agree, post a pic of your odometer, I (amongst others) will be able to tell you if it's been clocked.

[JasoN_-]

hey fellas, was busy for a few days, i got some pics now..
http://img5.imageshack.us/i/01022010130.jpg/
http://img36.imageshack.us/i/01022010129.jpg/

im not so sure whether its the thrust bearing, all i know iis that whenever i put my foot on the clutch the weird noises stop and the car sounds normal..

[JasoN_-]

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5276/01022010129.jpg (http://img36.imageshack.us/i/01022010129.jpg/)

[steve88]

looks normal 2 me

[Mikecivic78]

nice and straight numbers , just like they should be.

[JasoN_-]

hmmm i dont know anymore..
only thing im afraid of now is the weird noise. whenever my foot isnt on the clutch.
my mate said its the clutch bearing.. some are saying fly wheel?
its weird cos the noise only happens when the car is at low revs, at high revs there isnt the weird noise.

[dougie_504]

Does the noise go quiet when you engage the clutch?
Does the noise become a louder rattling when you take off slowly in 1st gear?

If so, it's most likely a driveshaft bearing.


EDIT: As for the ODO, personally I don't trust the '1' at the start. We have a '97 Accord VTi, '90 CRX SiR, '94 Civic VTi, '98 Integra GSR, '03 Jazz and '85 City Turbo owned by my family of 4 and parked at our house. They all look straighter than your ODO.

[JasoN_-]

yeah its quiet when i put the clutch down, and its really really loud when i taking off in 1st gear, almost like something is grinding.. ><

yeah the 1 on the ODO is abit wonky aye.. i dunno, there isnt a way to find the cars true odo reading is there?

[Dems]

yeah the 1 on the ODO is abit wonky aye.. i dunno, there isnt a way to find the cars true odo reading is there?


you can call dept transport to confirm the last odo readign when it was sold before you bought the car

posted on first page...

[dougie_504]

As Gwyn said. Call Dept. Tran and find out.

And yeah, sounds like you have a rooted driveshaft bearing

[~Sp33~]

As Gwyn said. Call Dept. Tran and find out.

And yeah, sounds like you have a rooted driveshaft bearing

Driveshaft bearing? :confused:

@OP: did you not take the car for a test drive when you bought it? 1100rpm idle also seems normal, especially if the car is still warming up.



yeah the 1 on the ODO is abit wonky aye.. i dunno, there isnt a way to find the cars true odo reading is there?

No, and the reading looks fine. If a car has had excessive K's wound back, it's usually obvious by the general wear and tear of the interior (seats heavily worn, pedal rubbers excessively worn for the amount of K's shown etc). It's all a matter of matching the wear levels, and seeing in your opinion whether they seem to match the odometer. The car may have just had a hard life, in which case you shouldn't have bought it.

[JasoN_-]

what happens if i keep driving the thing with the rooted drive shaft bearing?

how much does it cost to replace? =S

[shadou]

sure it's not in input shaft bearing? Well considering you have to dismantle the box you're looking at anywhere around $400+ I THINK; if you want to replace your clutch and machine flywheel now would be the time; however in saying so you can still drive it, I've known someone who has driven their car for over 20,000km on a noisy ISB and still not seizing, it's a matter of risk

[JasoN_-]

i have no idea what it is, all i know is that the noise goes away when i put the clutch peddle down lol.

sorry, i know nothing about cars =(

[4000gt]

hmmm i dont know anymore..
only thing im afraid of now is the weird noise. whenever my foot isnt on the clutch.
my mate said its the clutch bearing.. some are saying fly wheel?
its weird cos the noise only happens when the car is at low revs, at high revs there isnt the weird noise.

Quick thing to check..... heat shields under the car. I had the same issue with my coupe... really suspected the thrust bearing and flywheel etc.... a quick look under the car made it quite clear one of my heatshields were contacting the exhaust at idle and low rpm. Sounded exactly like what you would imagine a bearing noise would sound like.... easy to brush it off but doesn't hurt to check.

EDIT: i ended up just bending out the heatshield and noise went away

[JasoN_-]

hmmm i'll have a look into it..

the car still makes the noise even when its idleing.. goes away as soon as i hit the sweet spot for the clutch.. i dont think it would be the heatshield =S

[Nepolian]

Sound likely to be your clutch release bearing!

[JasoN_-]

haha~ im starting to hate cars..

all these different bearings :C im so confused

[shadou]

it's more than likely, almost probable, that it is a bearing that will require the removal of the gearbox, just get a mechanic to check it out (by playing with the clutch pedal), usually takes less than 5 mins and he will be able to quote you up on price and what the problem IS.

[NA-tuned]

That's weird, I had brought a Honda Civic 95 Model 2 years ago and it had 6 months warranty on parts and labour!

Must be different in VIC.

Not sure about VIC but in QLD, used cars up to 10 yrs must come with a Statutory Warranty of something like: X amount of k's or 6mths and 10 yrs and over: x amount of k's and 1 month warranty.

Used to sell New cars so not too familiar with with used car warranties.

[JasoN_-]

I've called up several departments of vicroads, called consumer affairs numerous times

doesn't seem like vicroads can tell me a previous odometer reading..

and i cant do anything without proof that the odometer has been tampered, is there any other way i can prove it?

[lookingforboost]

man unless the car is in crap condition i would say that they are correct kms they are straight and dont look like they have been played with.

as for the noise i bet that its loud and then foot on the clutch and its gone then loud agian when you pull your foot off.

if so then its your clutch release bearing pretty common honda thing and in civics get a new clutch kit fitted and shoud fix up the issue and then you will have a new clutch :)

[JasoN_-]

man unless the car is in crap condition i would say that they are correct kms they are straight and dont look like they have been played with.

as for the noise i bet that its loud and then foot on the clutch and its gone then loud agian when you pull your foot off.

if so then its your clutch release bearing pretty common honda thing and in civics get a new clutch kit fitted and shoud fix up the issue and then you will have a new clutch :)

haha perhaps you are right =) the car is in pree mint condition, engine runs fine.. just that annoying clutch release bearing noise.. =S

[dougie_504]

GBox stuff is expensive man. You gotta pretty much jack the car right up a metre or more to get it out. Labour cost is high :(

[4000gt]

if it's just a release bearing, why would you pay someone to do it? if you have some tools and jackstands, it'd take half an afternoon to change and costs jack. if you can't afford to always pay someone to repair shit, it might be a good time to start learning to do it yourself.

[dougie_504]

He's stated that he's not very good with cars, and I think generally if you're not experienced and haven't done something before you should multiple your estimated time to complete the job by 3 :)

[4000gt]

He's stated that he's not very good with cars, and I think generally if you're not experienced and haven't done something before you should multiple your estimated time to complete the job by 3 :)

my bad... i tend to forget what was said originally.... showing my age.....

as for lack of experience and tools, 3 may not be enough, lol, and that's conservative for me. still, gotta start learning sometime.... might be an idea to get some mates who work on their own cars to give a hand.

[dougie_504]

I go by three. I though my first Honda thermostat/coolant filtration would take an hour or so...try three hours LOL

[~Sp33~]

I go by three. I though my first Honda thermostat/coolant filtration would take an hour or so...try three hours LOL

Always better to take your time and get it right :thumbsup:

[dougie_504]

Yeah I almost found out the hard way lol

I bought a cheapo thermostat from Bursons but the rubber seal didn't sit properly in the thermostat piping, so then had to go to Eastern Honda and buy another one coz it was leaking coolant :(

[JasoN_-]

update. took the car to a mechanic and they said it was fine, besides the bearing.. he suggested to replace it with the clutch.. maybe i was over paranoid by rumours =Pdecided to keep the car..

any suggestions of what type of oil is best for this type of car? price isnt a concern.
its a 1996 honda civic

[dougie_504]

I use Castrol Magnatec because I'm not big on spending extra $$$ for pretty much the same thing which you can get cheaper.

Otherwise I think most people will just "yo just go oem dude best ever" but like I said you don't need to.
I've used Castrol Magnatec on my '94 Civic, my '90 CRX, my brother's '98 Integra, my mum's '03 Jazz, my grandma's '98 Accord and my dad's '85 City Turbo. No problems ever. Plenty of friend in CRXAustralia use it too.

Works a treat every time.

[~Sp33~]

I also use Castrol Magnatec.

I think the weight i use is about 10w-40. Fairly standard weight.