Wakefield with Stock Dc2r

[anfo2gig]

Hey Guys,

Just wondering what time is achievable on stock dc2r, with RE001 and DS2500? or bone stock?

Thanks

[m0nty ITR]

Depends entirely on the driver. My mum could lap all day in the 22s.

Is this for a bet or are you planning a day at the track?

[anfo2gig]

Thank for reply monty
but what i was really trying to get out of, is if the car is pushed to the limit, what possible time could be achieve with Re001 and ds2500.

[m0nty ITR]

Low 1:15 to high 1:14 but again, it depends on the driver.

[xntrik]

Theres a few 1:10's there but probably with semi's and lightly modded b18.


BUT MUST BE AWESOME DRIVER TO HIT ANYTHING AROUND 1:10 Or less.
Or fast car.

[bennjamin]

Dc2r is a fantastic car. If you can get more confident and hold throttle thru corners you should get down to the 1.14 or 1.15 range.

As an example I'm down in the 1.14 range , same tyres same running gear as a itr (eg hatch) same re001 tyres, with half a dozen visits to wakie. I'm a poofy driver so I'm sure you can get there with little trouble

[aaronng]

1:15 should be achievable after a few visits to wakefield, maybe even the first visit if you have the aptitude for it and can adjust quicker to going higher speeds in the corners. If my fat bastard car can do 1:17.2 on RE001 and street pads, the DC2R should break 1:15 and go quicker than that easily.

[m0nty ITR]

Theres a few 1:10's there but probably with semi's and lightly modded b18.


BUT MUST BE AWESOME DRIVER TO HIT ANYTHING AROUND 1:10 Or less.
Or fast car.

VTECMACHINE does high 1:10s and he's a Indian driving God. That car is also far from standard. 1:10s are a very quick lap around WP. I sense some seriously quick Honda times this year for WP.

BYP, J's Racing and Dr Honda cars all getting some serious work done.

BYP boys will be low 1:05s by year end and Andrew has a weapon EG too. I have no idea what I'll be doing but with a stock K20 I won't have the herbs in a straight line for EC but hope to get the car dialed for more power in 2011.

[anfo2gig]

thanks guy for the response.
I did wakefield yesterday 2nd time on track but first time time on wakefield. Got1:18.6990 (on last timed session, First time session was 1:23), but thought it was shit since majority had better time than me. Need to learn how to take the conors better
:(.... i always understeer..... to quick or to early into apex.

[aaronng]

thanks guy for the response.
I did wakefield yesterday 2nd time on track but first time time on wakefield. Got1:18.6990 (on last timed session, First time session was 1:23), but thought it was shit since majority had better time than me. Need to learn how to take the conors better
:(.... i always understeer..... to quick or to early into apex.

If you are understeering, then you need to brake earlier and then start to release the brakes once you have begin to turn into the corner. If you hold the brakes down deeper into the corner, you will understeer (and chew up your tyres). It is difficult to hit the apex if you are trying to turn while holding the brakes down. :)

BTW, what tyre pressure are you running? I was using 40psi with the tyres just slightly warm.

There are also lots of videos on youtube, which you can watch to see what lines people take through the corners. Although the general rule is to try to hit the apex, there are many angles that you can hit the apex at, some of which make a difference if it at a corner before a long straight or a corner before a string of low speed corners.

[anfo2gig]

im not too sure of my PSI for tyres, I had my tyres change over by bridgestone before the track day. But i did wheel alignment with 1mm toe in rear and 1mm toe out front.

[m0nty ITR]

im not too sure of my PSI for tyres, I had my tyres change over by bridgestone before the track day. But i did wheel alignment with 1mm toe in rear and 1mm toe out front.

You can use brakes through a corner. I brake late and hard and ease off them through the corner. It's called trail braking. It helps turn the car using less stering input. It's quite tricky to get used to and sometimes invloves left foot braking so try bennjamin's method for now.

You're also better off being slow into a corner so you can accelerate out sooner. The old saying "slow in, fast out" is the critical rule when taking corners.

Tyre pressures aren't as critical for street tyres but it is important to make sure to have them up around 38-40psi when up to temperature. A simple way to monitor this is checking them immediately after finishing a session with a handheld gauge. Semi slicks get higher operating temps so start at a lower cool pressure.

[anfo2gig]

sweet thanks for the reply guys, next time in wakefield will let you guys know how many time are :)

Wouldn't braking while turning cause wheel lock?
but man sure i do lack shit load of power down straight .... haha

[aaronng]

Yes, and if it locks the outer front wheel in a corner, you get instant understeer because the weight is on that outer wheel and not much on the inner wheel.

Your speed on the straight will depend heavily on your exit speed out of the corner before the straight. So look at sacrificing some entry speed but gaining exit speed so that you are able to achieve a higher top speed on that main straight.

[aaronng]

Toe in rear? For better turn in response use toe out. Still only slight, about 1-2mm.

If the rear becomes too alive, you are more likely to spin out at that same speed.
I would still keep toe in, but reduce it to only 0.5mm toe in on each corner.

I prefer higher corner speed limit with a hint of understeer than a lower corner speed limit with a hint of oversteer.

[m0nty ITR]

sweet thanks for the reply guys, next time in wakefield will let you guys know how many time are :)

Wouldn't braking while turning cause wheel lock?
but man sure i do lack shit load of power down straight .... haha

Braking puts weight over the front wheels and makes the back end lighter. When you then turn in the rear of the car will move quicker and try to overtake the front end. This helps turn in if you can manage it well. Putting power back down shifts weight to the rear. That's why FWD cars struggle with corner exit traction if not set up well.

Wheels only lock when too much braking pressure is applied. In a car with ABS the worst that will happen is ABS engagement and understeer. Take a look at F1 telemetry and watch how long drivers hold the brakes on for. There are two rules for driving fast with pedals. Be on one, or the other but never be off both. Weight transfer and having it on the right wheels at the right time is the key to driving fast.

You don't need more power. Why do you think Hondas are so quick at WP? It's not because we run massive power. It's because well sorted NA cars have corner speed advantage. WP is far from a power circuit.

[fatboyz39]

Practice left foot braking.

Have seen standard R's doing 1.13's. Keep practising.

[FLICK]

Toe in rear? For better turn in response use toe out. Still only slight, about 1-2mm.

You can use brakes through a corner. I brake late and hard and ease off them through the corner. It's called trail braking. It helps turn the car using less stering input. It's quite tricky to get used to and sometimes invloves left foot braking so try bennjamin's method for now.

You're also better off being slow into a corner so you can accelerate out sooner. The old saying "slow in, fast out" is the critical rule when taking corners.

Tyre pressures aren't as critical for street tyres but it is important to make sure to have them up around 38-40psi when up to temperature. A simple way to monitor this is checking them immediately after finishing a session with a handheld gauge. Semi slicks get higher operating temps so start at a lower cool pressure.

Toe out in rear? i dont think so

[m0nty ITR]

Toe out in rear? i dont think so

Sorry, I don't know why I read it like that. My head read it as toe in front. I even posted the same way. I'll edit that. Distracted Sam was distracted. :p

[aaronng]

Wheels only lock when too much braking pressure is applied. In a car with ABS the worst that will happen is ABS engagement and understeer. Take a look at F1 telemetry and watch how long drivers hold the brakes on for. There are two rules for driving fast with pedals. Be on one, or the other but never be off both. Weight transfer and having it on the right wheels at the right time is the key to driving fast.

Except when you try to turn and brake at the same time at too high a speed. The car ploughs forward, while the wheels point at a sharper angle than the angle of the corner. I've done that mistake many times. Almost no cornering ability nor braking ability eventhough I am holding the pedal down and turning the steering wheel because the tyres are at too sharp an angle and all it is doing is rubbing down the shoulders of the tyre, trying to slow the car down. I have before worn out the shoulder of my new tyres past the limit of roadworthyness in 1 track day making this beginner's mistake. :p

[e240]

Toe out in rear? i dont think so

Whats wrong with toe out in the rear? I used to run rear toe out.. :p
As fatboy says - practice..

I seem to recall someone hitting 1:12 and under in a stock DC2R

[e240]

The car ploughs forward, while the wheels point at a sharper angle than the angle of the corner. I've done that mistake many times. :p

So the fix here, is to either straighten or steer out abit - I know its counter intuitive especially when trying to make the turn and I'm probably just as guilty as latching onto survival instincts...only thing is the survival instinct here actually compounds the issue

[xntrik]

SUPER LATEBRAKING METHOD!

Come again to Shift's track day see how you do there some more practicing will break 1:18s
Too easy!

[m0nty ITR]

Whats wrong with toe out in the rear? I used to run rear toe out.. :p
As fatboy says - practice..

I seem to recall someone hitting 1:12 and under in a stock DC2R

It does help with rear tyre temps too. In a FWD having a lively rear end isn't a bad thing. It can be kept under control quite easily with throttle.

[aaronng]

It does help with rear tyre temps too. In a FWD having a lively rear end isn't a bad thing. It can be kept under control quite easily with throttle.

If you are experienced, yes. :thumbsup:

[Limbo]

yeah bugger i'm only doing 1.16
need more practice & better brake pads.

[FLICK]

Whats wrong with toe out in the rear? I used to run rear toe out.. :p
As fatboy says - practice..

I seem to recall someone hitting 1:12 and under in a stock DC2R

Well if you like a bit of oversteer to compensate the front from understeering then there's nothing wrong, But doing this will cause instability and excessive tire wear. Might lose some speed as well. I guess its how you like to drive at the end of the day. But i just realised now that its a common thing to do with front wheel drive cars.

[anfo2gig]

guess more practice, anyway it was my first track day :) hoping to improve will keep all tips that you guys have suggested.

1.12 on stock dc2r, that is impressive wish i could do it

[e240]

Don't set too high expectations if its your first track day. Just go out there and have fun - and then the times will come. Remember, its more important to have fun!

Here's a good guide to times in DC2s
http://forums.clubitr.com.au/showthread.php?t=6205