Australia ITR's final drive is 4.4 or 4.785??

[edw-R]

The work shop manual in Honda is 4.4. But some people said 4.785.
I am confusing about it. Does anyone know??
Thanks:confused:

[TODA AU]

4.4

[Sp3rMz]

what he said. 4.4. I dont think they would release a manual thats wrong. not saying errors don't happen but.

[panda[cRx]]

whats the deal with changing the final drive?
whats needed to do it?
i wouldnt mind sacrificing some top speed for some acceleration

[mpd076-chuck]

I thought it was 4.4, until we pulled the FD out on my previous ITR after I bought a 4.7 and found out my current one was already 4.7.... that was a 99 build. We counted the teeth on both and they were identical. I know another owner who experienced the same.

I have a 2001 ITR now, manual says 4.4, but speeds/rpm match the previous car too. Toda_au does know his stuff though, which makes me confused!

[spoondc2]

I thought it was 4.4, until we pulled the FD out on my previous ITR after I bought a 4.7 and found out my current one was already 4.7.... that was a 99 build. We counted the teeth on both and they were identical. I know another owner who experienced the same.

I have a 2001 ITR now, manual says 4.4, but speeds/rpm match the previous car too. Toda_au does know his stuff though, which makes me confused!
Same situation here, 3 of my fd's had found out that that already have 4.785 FD also when they pull out the gearbox and trying to install "4.785" FD :(, and it should be the same as the 98 spec gearbox cos the code is N3E(same as 98 spec), now i am REALLY confused :(

Will that be any problem about the year of the ITR made? Ok... you have 99 ver, my fd have 2000 and 2001...........

[DynoDave]

Just ask BlackDC2 I remember Jason buying a new 4.785 final drive only to find out he already had it in his car.

Regards Dyno Dave

[tanghy]

it is 4.785, every ITR owner who's pulled theirs out has found that already in there

[Sp3rMz]

Has anyone tired calling up honda for a direct answer. Or even emailing them? Sounds like a cummon problem (well not problem but error) that all type R drivers are finding. As for me im runnin osgiken 4.91 so totally different :D

[TODA AU]

Hmmm, I'll have to count the teeth of the one I've got sitting on the bench at work on Monday... Pretty sure it's 4.4...
I have to admit though, I've only ever swapped the final drive for a 4.9 or lower...
So, I'll double check & confirm if I'm wrong...
Cheers...

Adrian

[SP0017]

i have counted the teeth on the final drive gear (ERM, 67 I THINK) and divided it by the teeth on the counter shaft (14),

clearly remember it came to abt 4.785.

THE 4.929 final drive is 69 teeth. ( this i counted for myself too)

i believe that this calculation is definitely right and therefore for some reason, there is a mistake in the manual. even honda australia has said that it was 4.4
but the counting teeth method does not lie.

go figure

[Sp3rMz]

Mind you honda australia goes by the book. So obviously what eva the book says they say. Guess each person needs to take out their final drive and count LOL

[edw-R]

Can't believe. Too many ans. Hope can solve this problem soon!!

[blackdc2]

Just ask BlackDC2 I remember Jason buying a new 4.785 final drive only to find out he already had it in his car.

Regards Dyno Dave
yeah, mine was 4.7..

Heaps of people tole me that i had 4.4, then when i pulled my tranny apart, i counted up the teeth and found out they were the same, so i bought a ats 4.9

[pckit]

quick question, would an upgrade from 4.7 to 4.9 make much noticable differece?

[SKYNUTS]

Try going at 100km/h on 4th gear , wat does it read on rmp?? If it is 4.785 , it would show 4.7 at revs , i mean this is wat ppl tell me , i don know how accurate it is. Just try it , i tried it on my itr and it was 4.4 so yeah , just try it out.And yr rim size does matter.Sensors are for stock 15" rims. So if yr running 16 or a7 , it would be slightly higher.

[tanghy]

Try going at 100km/h on 4th gear , wat does it read on rmp?? If it is 4.785 , it would show 4.7 at revs , i mean this is wat ppl tell me , i don know how accurate it is. Just try it , i tried it on my itr and it was 4.4 so yeah , just try it out.And yr rim size does matter.Sensors are for stock 15" rims. So if yr running 16 or a7 , it would be slightly higher.


what you were told is BS

[tanghy]

Hmmm, I'll have to count the teeth of the one I've got sitting on the bench at work on Monday... Pretty sure it's 4.4...
I have to admit though, I've only ever swapped the final drive for a 4.9 or lower...
So, I'll double check & confirm if I'm wrong...
Cheers...

Adrian

but u can't fit a 4.9 FD on a 4.4 1st gear

[TODA AU]

but u can't fit a 4.9 FD on a 4.4 1st gear
-----------------------------------------------------------------
From ATS website:
■The following Honda parts are necessary to install ATS 4.929 final
unless your transmission is JDM Integra Type R 98 after with 4.78
final drive.
１）1st gear 23421-P80-E30　×１　　　4,650yen
２）Distance collar 23914-P80-E30　×１ 630yen
３）Needle bearing 91107-P80-E31　×２ 1,500yen


■Gear ratio 10% lower than the stock (4.40)
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Do you want me to add anything to that?

[edw-R]

Still have no ans. Make me confuse and confuse agian.

[edw-R]

Some info:
4.40 66/15
4.785 67/14
4.929 69/14
Hope can help ITR owners find the ans!!

[tanghy]

-----------------------------------------------------------------
From ATS website:
?The following Honda parts are necessary to install ATS 4.929 final
unless your transmission is JDM Integra Type R 98 after with 4.78
final drive.
1)1st gear 23421-P80-E30?×1???4,650yen
2)Distance collar 23914-P80-E30?×1 630yen
3)Needle bearing 91107-P80-E31?×2 1,500yen


?Gear ratio 10% lower than the stock (4.40)
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Do you want me to add anything to that?

the point was how many type Rs did u have to change 1st gear to fit a 4.9?

[TODA AU]

the point was how many type Rs did u have to change 1st gear to fit a 4.9?



No... Your actual words were...


but u can't fit a 4.9 FD on a 4.4 1st gear



To me says, you think it can't actually be done...

Hence, my answer saying it can be done...

You know... fact vs. fiction...



Now that's been pointed out...

You want to turn it around into a veiled point you were actually trying to make... Ok...



My first answer was simply based on looking in AUDM DC2 Type R workshop manual were it says 4.4... Further since there was doubt raise about this...

As I know I've got an AUDM DC2 Type R final drive on the bench at the workshop,

I offered to prove or disprove myself today....

See below...


Hmmm, I'll have to count the teeth of the one I've got sitting on the bench at work on Monday... Pretty sure it's 4.4...

I have to admit though; I've only ever swapped the final drive for a 4.9 or lower...

So, I'll double check & confirm if I'm wrong...



As for changing the 1st counter gear when changing a final drive,

To be honest, I think we've only done that 4, maybe 5 times...

Mind you, I've only ever changed 9 or 10 DC2 Type R final drives personally...

Of that amount, some of the gearboxes were from wreckers, both here & NZ...

Add that to final drives that have simply been sold / supplied to the customer without need or mention of the 1st counter gear...

I'd say there's more than a fair chance that you're right about the 4.7 being in the AUDM DC2R... In any case, as I said, I will confirm today...

[SP0017]

i don't think you can use the method of 4th gear at 100km'hr method cos gear ratios in the different gearboxes are different.

counting the teeth cannot be wrong

[edw-R]

i don't think you can use the method of 4th gear at 100km'hr method cos gear ratios in the different gearboxes are different.

counting the teeth cannot be wrong
I agree with you.:)
Some info:
4.40 66/15
4.785 67/14
4.929 69/14

[TODA AU]

Ok.. The teeth count of the AUDM DC2R final drive on the bench showed 67/14...
That makes it a 4.785 final drive...
I guess the AUDM DC2R Honda workshop manual I've got is wrong...
Sorry for jumping in on the W/E & saying 4.4 off the bat...
Cheers

Adrian

[Civic Type R]

The civic VTiR and the Integra VTiR is 4.4

[edw-R]

Can Integra VTI-R install ATS fd?? And what are the parts no. for Integra VTI-R??

[tanghy]

-----------------------------------------------------------------
From ATS website:
?The following Honda parts are necessary to install ATS 4.929 final
unless your transmission is JDM Integra Type R 98 after with 4.78
final drive.
1)1st gear 23421-P80-E30?×1???4,650yen
2)Distance collar 23914-P80-E30?×1 630yen
3)Needle bearing 91107-P80-E31?×2 1,500yen


?Gear ratio 10% lower than the stock (4.40)
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Do you want me to add anything to that?

you need the above to work it on a vtir

[spoondc2]

Seems like it's the same parts that needed to install the 4.785 FD

[Sp3rMz]

Someone above asked if 4.9 to 4.7 a noticable difference. As my type R is my first ever manual car i bought i really cant tell the difference. I can tell you the rpm goes up pretty quick. My few of my friends drive my car and they were suprised how close the gear ratios are. If that kinda answers your question. Although none of them drive Type Rs.

Forgot to mention when i bought the car final drive was already installed.

[SKYNUTS]

what you were told is BS
as i said , i was just sharing wat i heard , im not very sure myself. So yeah , not trying to write up some BS.

Anyway , i myself very very confused. I have a 2000 ITR and ppl tell me its 4.4 , and some tell me its 4.7

WAT THE HELL IS THE FD ????????????????????????

[00dc2]

4.785

so since 5.06/4.785 = 1.05.. that is 5% difference.

so in any gear your rpm will be 5% higher.

at 120km/hr (like in the country) the thing will be spinning at almost 5000rpm right? fark.. that is a bit high.

[spoondc2]

4.785

so since 5.06/4.785 = 1.05.. that is 5% difference.

so in any gear your rpm will be 5% higher.

at 120km/hr (like in the country) the thing will be spinning at almost 5000rpm right? fark.. that is a bit high.
That's why someone put 96 spec 4th and 5th gear back on.......
and also i don't think 4.9 are any good for street use

[weezer]

That's why someone put 96 spec 4th and 5th gear back on.......
and also i don't think 4.9 are any good for street use
wouldnt the 96 spec 4th n 5th gear make it rev higher on the freeway?

[spoondc2]

wouldnt the 96 spec 4th n 5th gear make it rev higher on the freeway?
Oh sorry, i mean the reason why ppl put back 96 spec 4-5th gear back on is they want closer ratio, 5th gear is not necessary to swap cos it's just kinda downgrade, they swap 96 spec 4th to their 98 spec 4th cos they want better accelerations after changing gear, but anyway it is bit silly to swap both 4-5th gear cos it's just exactly the same as having a 96 spec gearbox and equipped with 4.785 FD

Sorry to make you confused :p

Anyone has experience using the whole ATS gearbox set?

[Civic Type R]

put it this way.
with a 4.4FD in 5th you will be about 3000rpm doing 100km/h
with a 4.785FD in 5th you will be about 4000rpm doing 100km/h

redlines in 4.4 tranny are (km/h):
1. 60
2 95
3 140
4 180
5 about 225

redlines in 4.785 tranny are (km/h):
1. 50
2 80
3 130
4 165
5 220 - and it gets there quite easy too !

[spoondc2]

put it this way.
with a 4.4FD in 5th you will be about 3000rpm doing 100km/h
with a 4.785FD in 5th you will be about 4000rpm doing 100km/h

redlines in 4.4 tranny are (km/h):
1. 60
2 95
3 140
4 180
5 about 225

redlines in 4.785 tranny are (km/h):
1. 50
2 80
3 130
4 165
5 220 - and it gets there quite easy too !
Cool~~
Do you agree that it's better to have shorter gears? cos i think it is hard to have chance to use the 200km/h + range..... in most conditions

[Civic Type R]

well you can also look at it this way.
with the 4.4 box you can cruise in 5th and just sit under VTEC whilst cruising at 165km/h.
With the 4.785 box you can cruise in 5th and just sit under VTEC whilst cruising at 150(ish)km/h.

[ATSEK4]

Cool~~
Do you agree that it's better to have shorter gears? cos i think it is hard to have chance to use the 200km/h + range..... in most conditions

I agree, so i chose ATS 4.9 final drive. no point driving after 200. I wonder how the feeling will be after i put 4.9 fian drive and clutch and flywheel at the same time.

[Civic Type R]

well theres nothing worse than being on a cruise and passing the V8's and then hit rev limit in 5th on 220 and then have the V8 cars fly past as you just sit there goin nowhere on 220. That sukd !

[blackdc2]

well theres nothing worse than being on a cruise and passing the V8's and then hit rev limit in 5th on 220 and then have the V8 cars fly past as you just sit there goin nowhere on 220. That sukd !
dont worry, the v8s will be booked for a higher speed by the local cop...

[kenshin]

lol... unless they book u first

[spoondc2]

lol... unless they book u first
LOL what do you mean?
cos we have lower top speed and cops will be more easier to get us?

[tinkerbell]

LOL what do you mean?
cos we have lower top speed and cops will be more easier to get us?
no - cause you accel. quicker and are in front of the other cars, lol! :wave:

but yeah - close to the "best thread evar!" :cool:

[b18a]

lol... unless they book u first
hahaha... yeah, how the hell would u know that SS V8 is an undercover or not.
i' ve seen a SS V8 with alloy and PERSONALISED plate that has flash light on dash, and pulled an unlucky guy over in a 60 zone...

cops are getting smarter... :cool:

Cheers

[wynode]

This has been a great thread.......lets not take it off topic please

[DOHCVTEC]

pretty sure it's 4.785 FD...although their manual said 4.4, the original website that promotes DC2R back then says the FD is 4.785. Also, check your user manual, it could state the same.

Our AUSDM DC2R is basically a 98 spec model with 15 inch wheels, 96 spec 4-2-1 header, 96 spec rear upper suspension arm, 4 round lights instead of JDM combination headlights, extended fender indicators instead of flat ones...pretty much it.

Our brakes are 98 spec brakes (note the gap between the wheels n the calipers, they are much smaller than JDM 98 spec since we use 15 in wheels) which is bigger than 96 specs (150-0 in 70.2m instead of around 80m)

We are very lucky cos Australia has got the closest specification to JDM 98 spec. the British and the yanks are less lucky.

The reason why our cars produce 141 KW instead of 147 KW (JDM) is mainly cos the JDM figure is achieved by 100 RON fuel, and ours by 95 RON. The torque curve is marginally different, prolly due to 4-1 and 4-2-1 header's difference.
But if we happen to use 100 RON fuel, our power should be very very close to 147 KW @8000rpm.

[tinkerbell]

i dont belive the 4-2-1 headers are the same.

the 96 JDM one has a 2.5in collector... audm does not?

[Civic Type R]

It may have been a miss print in the manual or Honda literature.
The best thing to do was to take out the FD gear and count the teeth and that is what some of you have done. Then who do you believe ? the book or the physical evidence..

Someone call Honda Australia and alert them to the discrepancy.

[tanghy]

i dont belive the 4-2-1 headers are the same.

the 96 JDM one has a 2.5in collector... audm does not?
audm has 2.25" collector, and a longer cat & a shorter bpipe compared to jdm

[edw-R]

audm has 2.25" collector, and a longer cat & a shorter bpipe compared to jdm
I agree with you. I bought 2nd jdm cat. Audm's cat is longer than the jdm's cat.

[Civic Type R]

my high flow cat lasted 6 months. $260 for a hollow pipe :eek:

[todaek9]

JDM ITR 98-00 only comes in 4.785....Aus don't...

[mpd076-chuck]

JDM ITR 98-00 only comes in 4.785....Aus don't...

yeh... mine came with 4.785 and it was AUDM. So did BlackDC2.

[Sp3rMz]

I think we already came with the conclusion like 2 pages ago LOL. Type R comes with 4.7 with a miss print in the manual at 4.4. Think someone should call up honda and have a nice discussion with them. It would be very interesting.

[todaek9]

..........miss print?...err...

hey mpd, how you know that your car has the 4.785??...ermm....

[wynode]

..........miss print?...err...

hey mpd, how you know that your car has the 4.785??...ermm....
Read the rest of the thread please.

Most have counted the teeth on their ring gear and countershaft

[edw-R]

I just bought ATS fd kit for my car (ITR). I want to sell it now. Which model of car is suit for this kit??? This kit come with Model #R7A16-11 for B18C,B16B transmission, 1st gear 23421-P80-E30, distance collar 23914-P80-E30, Needle bearing 91107-P80-E31.

[mpd076-chuck]

..........miss print?...err...

hey mpd, how you know that your car has the 4.785??...ermm....

read this thread! or go and take one out of an AUDM and the count teeth.

[tinkerbell]

<- :shakes head: @ todaek9

[Bludger]

AUDM DC2 Integra Type R
115 kmph, 4000 rpm, 5th gear......
what do you guys get???
i cbf pulling my diff appart and counting

[tanghy]

if you have a stock aus dc2r you have 4.785, there is no need to argue futhur

[edw-R]

AUDM DC2 Integra Type R
115 kmph, 4000 rpm, 5th gear......
what do you guys get???
i cbf pulling my diff appart and counting
Same as you:
100 kmph = 3500rpm
115 kmph = 4000rpm

[AzKik-R]

put it this way.
with a 4.4FD in 5th you will be about 3000rpm doing 100km/h
with a 4.785FD in 5th you will be about 4000rpm doing 100km/h

redlines in 4.4 tranny are (km/h):
1. 60
2 95
3 140
4 180
5 about 225

redlines in 4.785 tranny are (km/h):
1. 50
2 80
3 130
4 165
5 220 - and it gets there quite easy too !
:confused:
hmmm, I've had mine somewhere between 250 and 260, and its a type r

[bennjamin]

no need for inciting speeding....keep it to the track.

BTW for the records all AUDM DC2 ITR are 4.7 FD

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