Clutch friction point changing

[RandyRhydah]

Hey, i just put my new 6 puck sprung button clutch in with a heavy duty pressure plate and lightened flywheel.

All has been well for the first 100 kms the friction point was right down close to the fire wall and bit hard and disengaged not to bad. but after driving a little tonight (up to 130 kms now) the friction point has moved right to pretty much as soon as i push my foot onto the clutch, sorry im not 100% how to explain is so i pretended i was explainin it to a 2 year old :P.

im just a bit worried it might be a problem, i bled it properly and filled it up full of dot4 and now the reseviour is only half full. or do you think it is just the clutch settling in that position? any other advice im happy to listen.

the bolts were all torqued down properly and the clutch plate lined up with a "spigot"? i think thats what my mechanic called it or im confusing it with somethign else.


my old mans datto has a solid button and its friction point is right down close to the firewall like mine started off at..


Thanks in advance for any help, i know some of you honda rocket scientists should be able to point me in the right direction.

[GSi_PSi]

ive recently got the same problem,- Exedy Heavy duty clutch , my friction point has changed, and my clutch is pretty new, i havent been burning it or anything, it still feels as hard as ever ... how do i bleed my clutch master cylinderr

sorry to hijack your thread randy

[Limbo]

you bleed the clutch thru the nipple on the gbox. Same way as you would breaks.

just step on the cluch and bleed the nipple. Top up on the clutch cylinder

both of you should do that first and see if it helps

[RandyRhydah]

ill rebleed it today and see how i go...

cheers

[CB7_OWNER]

how'd u go?

[RandyRhydah]

bled again yesterday and was fine but today its starting to act up again. also note the morning after i posted this i hopped in the car and it was fine, so its only after a bit of driving around it starts acting up.

Maybe master / slave cilinder problem?

[JasonGilholme]

could be a master/slave cylinder dying.

What clutch did you get? The friction point shouldn't be right close to the floor, should be about half way. Maybe a bit closer to the driver.

[RandyRhydah]

xtreme heavy duty pressure plate and 6 puck sprung disk. the feel felt like my old mans datto and mx5 race cars... but having it move up and down is weird. i did a quick google search and i hear alot of people talking about it and getting braided clutch lines and saying their master cylinder / slave cylinders are on the way out but every topic ive checked out there has been no outcome to what acually fixed it :(

[JasonGilholme]

I've got comp clutch, 6 puk ceramic, with heavy pressure plate and light fly. Friction point didn't move at all.

All i can think of iff incorrect install/bleeding or faulty cylinders.

[RandyRhydah]

hmm weird.. thanks for the help ill look into the above

[RandyRhydah]

jsut stuck my hand up around my clutch pedal / master cylinder and i got alot of grease / clutch fluid so i guess i found the problem. can i just get a confirmation though before i fork out for a fresh omni cilinder

[vinnY]

yeah i'd say it's a leaky master cylinder
do you really want an omni one though? they increase pedal pressure by like 50%
the oem honda one is relatively cheap anyhow

[JasonGilholme]

the omni one has an even shorter engagement doesn't it?? even on a stock clutch??

That plus the shorter engagement of the 6 puck would almost be like having a button clutch.

[RandyRhydah]

Thanks for the help guys, ordered a daikin "equal under pressure" master cylinder for it. will update with this thread if it fixes it up.

again thanks for your help.

[trentd]

check the lines, they also wear in a little, which makes it a bit different. but it shouldn't be much.

[Lerlo]

Just a shot in the dark, but It could be the adjustable rod that links the master cyl to the clutch pedal. Mine came loose before and the half clutch point went really high.

[RandyRhydah]

ill have a look, cheers

[saikou27]

just out of curiousity are all the oem clutch master's the same? or are they different on depending on the engine?

[kraiye]

update?

[RandyRhydah]

ive put it in.. after a bit of hard driving its holding strong but feels a bit weird after a while.. in a different way though. the pressure of the clutch starts moving further down towards the fire wall (there is a little bit of play before the pedal has fricton, the part that joins the pedal to the rod is all the way back). have bled it twice and there is no air in the system when we bleed it.. the line that goes from the resoviour (spelling) to the slave cylinder feels wet to touch like it is leaking but i dont see why that would change anythign to do with the pedal?

[vinnY]

any leaks will be felt through the pedal

[RandyRhydah]

just checked it out then its definatly leaking somewere because the level is down, the master cylinder is fine and it was dry around the slave cylinder. the only wet spot i found was the hose going from the resivior to the master cylinder... might try replacing that hose and see how it is..

[kraiye]

teflon tape?

[RandyRhydah]

still ****ed... any other info?

[vinnY]

did you bench bleed the new clutch master cylinder before putting it in?

[Limbo]

your supose to bleed it without attaching the lines first, to get the oil going thru the cylinder, then attach the lines and then bleed

[RandyRhydah]

il give it a go.. but it was doing it before i put the new master cilinder in..

[RandyRhydah]

ok guys bled the master cylinder on its own then put the lines back and bled again, yet to test it but all the fluid coming out when i bleed it is black, and it goes in blue. can this be a sign of old shitty lines or something?

[vinnY]

just sounds like old fluid to me
see how it drives first, not much else to go wrong unless your slave cylinder is bad

[aaronng]

Just keep bleeding it til it comes out blue.

[RandyRhydah]

it feels alot better.. but still the friction point changed once when it was idling for about 5 minutes as i was getting lunch.. will keep bleeding untill clean and hope for the best.

[RandyRhydah]

gone back to aids again.. any other advice?

[vinnY]

did you replace that leaky line?

[RandyRhydah]

sure did... new master cilinder different slave cilinder (not new) also replaced the rod in the slave cilinder with a longer one to make sure i was getting full throw (had sort of the same problem with my old lancer and this fixed it) and replaced feed line to resoviour and bled about a million times by 3 different people now.

im not 100% if it is using fluid or not, there is no visual leaks anywere except the bottom of the resiviour is wet to touch, although i think thats because of me overfilling it. so i wiped it down and going to keep my eye on it if it gets wet around there again.

what else could cause it? my firewall engine mount has collapsed in on itself, but i doubt that will effect the clutch at all but thought id throw that in just incase...

[RandyRhydah]

brand new slave cylinder fixed it... thank god! if anyone has the same problem new master and slave cylinders and double check there is no leaky lines at all. then it should be alright

[RandyRhydah]

ok i lied... its gone back to its old ways 3 days after old slave cylinder.. so it must must be after a fresh bleed it behaves for a bit. ordering new lines from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder... if this doesnt fix it i have no idea? every clutch component is brand new...

[RandyRhydah]

ok ive replaced the master cylinder slave cylinder and the line from resiviour to master cylinder replaced the complete clutch line from the master cylinder to slave cylinder aswell. so its not an issue between the resiviour to the slave cylinder... what else could it be? its getting stupid could i have bought a faulty pressure plate or something? the clutch / flywheel were brand new when the problem started.

[Bludger]

ouch, hope it goes well, sorry i have nothing informative to say.

with a fresh clutch installed, is the friction point meant to be high or down low?

[RandyRhydah]

according to a poster on this thread its meant to stay pretty much the same as what it was stock... it feels weird like its sticking some times and as soon as i let the clutch go even a cm it starts rolling.. but wont fully deactivate untill the pedal is all the way out. maybe the pucks are fusing to the flywheel or something?

[vinnY]

dunno about button clutches but i had my exedy organic clutch installed recently, it was initially grabbed down low then after a few days it felt like the oem position again
though the pedal is harder to press and it does feel more grabby

[RandyRhydah]

yeah but my clutch now has over 3000 kms on it thats why im cranky :(

[RandyRhydah]

had one of the technicians from xtreme clutches ring up and he told me it sounds more like a gearbox / diff problem... the gearbox needed most synchros replaced anyway and i was going to do final drive / lsd aswell. but now i found a 98+ type r s80 gearbox for 1300 so i might just get that. is that a good price? hopefully fixes my problem..

[yellows2k]

Any reason why ur running a 6 puck? Unless ur pushing crazy power or drag or race cars, I don't see a need for anything other than an oem or oem equivalent.
I remember using an exedy HD in my evo9, and it sucked balls, put an exedy sports organic and it felt like oem

also, this is one of the reasons I choose to pay people to do these types of thongs on my car. I lack the tools and the time to muck around when it goes wrong.

[RandyRhydah]

i had the tools and did it with our mechanic at the workshop here. i went with a puck clutch because i plan on tracking it heaps and the oem replacement with only 10000 kms on it was slipping bad at willowbank when launching so i quickly took that out and went with an xtreme puck clutch. i plan on boosting it and putting a bit of power through it (no im not a fanboy p plater dreamer before people jump to that conclusion) in the future so i thought do it once do it right. its made daily driving and city driving alot more adventurous but other then that when its behaving its a realy good clutch that i can be hard on without worrying about it

[markismaximus]

do you know if the flywheel is stepped or flat?

like this? http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd121/mx83cressida/ED%20Civic/EDSwapWeek5-032.jpg

if its stepped when its machined the same depth needs to be taken off the friction surface and the lip that the pressure plate bolts onto.

If only the firction surface was machined you wont be getting full clamping force, as the clamping distance has been increased... if that makes sense.

just a possibility, but if you didn't see the flywheel after machining you probably wont know

[vinnY]

pretty sure it was a brand new clutch/flywheel combo so no machining involved

[markismaximus]

sorry, missed that bit.

sure you have all the right parts? flywheel suited to pressure plate etc

[RandyRhydah]

i did not think that at all, was not machined and all brand new. here are some pics of the flywheel / clutch before installation you might be able to tell me if its right / wrong

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/142/l_98c5651457ec4c9c90aebb284dbc8f8d.jpg
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/129/l_43a3ce94c886447e98daf715c5b421f7.jpg

[markismaximus]

I couldn't really tell just from looking at pics. got any part numbers for the above stuff? cross reference it against each manufacturers listing for your vehicle

[Bludger]

got the new box yet?

$1300 is cheapish for n3e s80 98 spec box.

I would be weary of condition.

they are usually more closer to the 2g mark.

pretty sought after these days.

[RandyRhydah]

nuh box will come in time... before buying it im going to get the sellers word on its age / condition.. he assures me that its a 98+ s80 with less then 80,000 on it in perfect working condition..

[Bludger]

well, in my experience, <80thou km's you'll never get a perfect box.

we got two n3e s80's, one untouched in my car and another we bought for cheap.

we've opened up the one we bought and its far from clean.

My car has just over 70 klicks on it and starting to make a lil bit of noise.

even if the box has been nurtured all its life, its still gonna have a few worn or broken parts somewhere inside.

I would buy a dirt cheap one and rebuild.

ps. we got word it was pretty good condition too.

its all part of the sell.

[RandyRhydah]

yeah understand all that.. finally got onto the guy not through his PR guy and its a 96 box with less then 80 thou.. which is fair enough the price is a bit more understandable now... stil not TOO bad