SHELL optimax VS BP ultimate FUEL ! For DOHC VTEC

[lil_miss_vtec]

Is it just me or is all the fuel the same?
Cuz last time I checked its just general pump fuel not rocket fuel for a high powered jet engine....

[aaronng]

Is it just me or is all the fuel the same?
Cuz last time I checked its just general pump fuel not rocket fuel for a high powered jet engine....

91 and 95 octane are usually the same across brands (same supplier). But the 98 octanes are made according to the brand's specifications.

[mooshie]

Aarong is right, there are 2 refineries in Brisvegas, 2 in Sydney, 2 in Melbourne and 1 in Perth. Most of the 95 and 91 RON fuel for each state comes from these same sources, i.e. if you buy from a Caltex in Perth then most likely it was refined at BP's Kwinana complex. 91 and 95 is simply made to the Australian Standard and all companies use it in each location because value adding and branding is just not economically viable for such a price sensitive product. Wheras for the Premium 98 fuels each company has its own specs and tries to set themselves apart for their 'flagship' products.


BTW. Perth people should have a broader choice soon with Caltex now shipping Vortex98 over there.

[lil_miss_vtec]

ahh ok - I always use premium fuel from shell, bp, caltex and I hardly notice any diffrence?!

[didz]

Ok after 1 full tank of BP i found that i did not have the same power as before with v-power. I foudn that v-power gave me better response and power. I am now using a full tank of v-power. Interesting to see the results now.

[Alpine]

Ok after 1 full tank of BP i found that i did not have the same power as before with v-power. I foudn that v-power gave me better response and power. I am now using a full tank of v-power. Interesting to see the results now.

I've always used BP Ultimate since it came out. Until recently however, I decided to try what's over the fence and fill up with Caltex Vortex98. I'm about 3/4 of the way thru the tank and so far I am noticing the car feels torquier and very smooth, plus the mileage is considerably more. On Ultimate I would be lucky to get 350km out of a full tank. With this tank of Vortex98, so far I have travelled 400km and I still have 1/4 of a tank to go. I have not changed my driving style nor travelled anywhere different, just my usual weekly commuting. Interesting so far. Next to try will be a tankful of VPower to see how that compares.

[didz]

I've always used BP Ultimate since it came out. Until recently however, I decided to try what's over the fence and fill up with Caltex Vortex98. I'm about 3/4 of the way thru the tank and so far I am noticing the car feels torquier and very smooth, plus the mileage is considerably more. On Ultimate I would be lucky to get 350km out of a full tank. With this tank of Vortex98, so far I have travelled 400km and I still have 1/4 of a tank to go. I have not changed my driving style nor travelled anywhere different, just my usual weekly commuting. Interesting so far. Next to try will be a tankful of VPower to see how that compares.

**** man what car do u drive and how hard!!!? lol 350kays?

I get like 550-600 out of my type r with a full tank. I think next i will try vortec 98 althought not many places around me sell it.

[90-POV]

shell optimax ftw!

[shebangs]

I use BP. It's 98%. Shell is only 96.

[didz]

I use BP. It's 98%. Shell is only 96.

not sure where u got this from.....

BP is 98 octane not %. V-Power is also 98 Octane

[SLOWEGG]

Shell is 98.. i think you are thinking of vortex.

[datzlr]

seems like bp for the win

[EL_DC5]

I use BP. It's 98%. Shell is only 96.

I think He is talking about the old shell gas stations that have premium unleaded 96 not V-power which is 98.


I cant beleive you guys get even 500 kays,

Me and my Type S cant do better than 450 ( it only got 10,000 kays tho)

[Alpine]

I am now on my 4th tank of Vortex98 and I gotta say...it is noticably better than Ultimate in my car - more torque, smooth revving, even squeezes abit more mileage per tank too.

Not sure why this would be so, but even the wife noticed the difference without any prompting so that says alot coz when it comes to cars she can't tell the difference between a car and a bar of soap. Plus I never told her I changed fuels.

I'll be sticking to Vortex98 for the foreseeable future and also benefitting from the 4c vouchers.

[Alpine]

http://motoring.asiaone.com.sg/owners/20070428_001.html

Came across this article on the net today - interesting reading.

[aaronng]

http://motoring.asiaone.com.sg/owners/20070428_001.html

Came across this article on the net today - interesting reading.
Not really a good article though.

[didz]

Not really a good article though.

I agree, the fact that no charts at all are shown just tells me "who cares what you guys think" it's also very vague and only mentions the performance of the 95 fuels, nothing of the 98 ones they used.

I need to find a vortex 98 store for my car to test that. The one in vermont south might be the one for me. i get 4 cents off as well so it might be the best choice overall!

[De_Cruelz]

Some Caltex outlets offer a further 4 cents off if you purchase something worth $5 or more. That's a 8 cents off per litre!

[aaronng]

Some Caltex outlets offer a further 4 cents off if you purchase something worth $5 or more. That's a 8 cents off per litre!

The only nice one that is worth it for me is Shell's 2 cents off if you spend $2 in store. That is because they sell the Eclipse mints, 2 packs for $4, which is cheaper than what safeway/woolies and coles charge for ($2.30 per pack)

[drsilliez]

well that extra 4c u get for buying something at least $5 in store isnt really worth it, if u werent planning to buy something. think abt it, if u bought something for $5 just to get that extra 4c, ull actually be paying more than if the original discount was 8c without the $5 in store purchase, (unless ur refuelling like 100+ L of fuel lol)

[De_Cruelz]

^^^

True about that, but sometimes I do get drinks like the 2 Gatorade pack or something similar on offer :)

[didz]

well that extra 4c u get for buying something at least $5 in store isnt really worth it, if u werent planning to buy something. think abt it, if u bought something for $5 just to get that extra 4c, ull actually be paying more than if the original discount was 8c without the $5 in store purchase, (unless ur refuelling like 100+ L of fuel lol)

smokers take advantage of such schemes. smokes are like 10 bucks a pack so they = winners.

[Alpine]

Have been using Caltex Vortex98 for the past half dozen tanks and was very impressed. Decided to give Shell V-Power a go as it was the only remaining fuel out of BP, Caltex and Shell I had not yet tried. Disappointing to say the least. Engine feels thin and has no feeling of torque compared to Vortex98 which noticably felt alot better than Ultimate and V-Power. Will be going back to Vortex98 once this tank of V-Power is used up and sticking with it.

[DNYALL]

someone should just post up a poll on wat fuels people use, then we will know how many people use wat fuels.

I Used to use BP every time, but then one time i got cought out and had to use Shell V-Power. I got an extra 50k's out of the tank and didn't feel any difference with power. I have been using it ever since but will be going bak to ultimate next time to see if there is any change...

[crazyray]

was using shell v-power and now have changed to mobil, feels alot better the car and also giving extra milage per a tank as well

[aaronng]

Well, try out every fuel at least once. If you have tried BP Ultimate, Vpower and Mobil 8000, give Vortex98 a go if they sell it in your area.

[LiL FiLo]

when i was at bathurst last year for the 1000 they were doing comparison test between optimax and ultimate on an xr8.

the kw was about 5kw in the testing condition so in that respect i would probably go ultimate over optimax.

my person pref tho would be mobil synergy 8000, used to have a worked v8 and the only fuel that would ping was the mobil. id also recommend vortex premium, good fuel price wise and 4c off a litre with woolworths docket!
hehe

but if you guys want a good fuel for racing i think u can still get the 108 oct stuff from the fuel station near bankstown airport

[loco_corolla]

I couldn't be bothered reading the whole thread so if this was said then sorry. In my knowledge BP are consitant with their fuels in that when they say the fuel is 98ron than it is 98ron as opposed to shell which are inconsistent. There have been reports where the advertised shell v power racing which is supposed to have 100ron and actually have mixed results ranging from 95-102ron. These reports were made due to the necessity of high powered cars needing to run on high octane fuel, and when one of the cars exhibited detonation they traced it back to the fuel, thus conducting tests on different fuels. The article is somewhere on the net if you can find it. So definantly BP ultimate, i've personally never really liked shell anyways, my second choice is caltex.

Another source of information was the BP are the only fuel company which has a true 98 octane percentage in their fuels and that the others all require additives to reach their 98 octane which could explain for the variance in fuel octane ratings found in other fuels.

[aaronng]

Another source of information was the BP are the only fuel company which has a true 98 octane percentage in their fuels and that the others all require additives to reach their 98 octane which could explain for the variance in fuel octane ratings found in other fuels.
Not really true. Petrol consists not only of 1 component. It's a cocktail of many different chemicals, some to clean your engine, others to increase octane. And I can bet you that BP also adds aromatics and benzene to increase the octane rating to 98.

[loco_corolla]

Not really true. Petrol consists not only of 1 component. It's a cocktail of many different chemicals, some to clean your engine, others to increase octane. And I can bet you that BP also adds aromatics and benzene to increase the octane rating to 98.

I was running of information i sourced from the net, although what ur saying may be true, it may also be true that yeah sure bp have additives but that the 98octane fuel is mixed independently whereas the other fuels may take 95octane fuel and then add more stuff to make up to 98. A personal opinion i'm making about what information i've gathered.

[aaronng]

I was running of information i sourced from the net, although what ur saying may be true, it may also be true that yeah sure bp have additives but that the 98octane fuel is mixed independently whereas the other fuels may take 95octane fuel and then add more stuff to make up to 98. A personal opinion i'm making about what information i've gathered.

You should find out what base stock does BP use to make that 98 octane.

[loco_corolla]

Are you referring to shell??? How all fuels come from shell.

[aaronng]

Are you referring to shell??? How all fuels come from shell.

All 91 and 95 octane petrols come from the same source. The 98s are made to the brand's specifications and have very slight differences.

[Riviera]

get ur sheety optimax then go down to supercheap and buy the NOS range octane booster lol

[Rasputin]

Just an article related to inconsistencies with BP ultimate fuel
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=276389

[Alpine]

Well well well. So much for the mighty "always consistent" BP Ultimate!!

[didz]

Well well well. So much for the mighty "always consistent" BP Ultimate!!

Read the details and understand them first. The article is about 91 and 95 octane petrol being sold as the 98. Basically it was covered on TodayTonight last night and all of the service stations which have been found to do this are owned by the one guy who has Allegedly deliberately switched the fuel over for profiteering purposes.

Based on this information i still believe there is nothing wrong with BP Ultimate and that i still go by my original statement which is based on the research done by a friend of mine which concluded, BP Ultimate and Mobile SYnergy 8000 were the cleanest fuels and rated as the best for the engine they were testing it on (an engine from a Formula Holden race car). Their test showed that V-Power was the lowest in the ratings.

[Alpine]

Where did Caltex Vortex 98 come in that ranking?

[EL_DC5]

I Am loyal to BP Ultimate, I cant get a consistent feel for Mobil 8000 fuel, Vortex feels sluggish like Vpower but w/o the extra Ks

[tangyoonee]

My car likes caltex vertex 95 don't no why.
it pulls, feels and sounds better and better Ks. d series like caltex vertex I believe.

[didz]

Where did Caltex Vortex 98 come in that ranking?

Somewhere in the higher middle range, i think not too far below mobile and bp ultimate

[TheGoodDeal]

Just an article related to inconsistencies with BP ultimate fuel
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=276389

Does anyone have the Name or location of those Eleven BP petrol stations in northern NSW? So People can avoid to refuel at those stations. We don't known what the owner mix in the other type of fuels to profiteering.

[Reynaldo7]

Would you reccomend the higher priced fuel for all Hondas or just the VTEC models and such.

[Mashimaro]

Just to throw something out there for you guys. I run vortex 98 i get bout 350 out of the dc2r modified. I run Ultimate i get 400 420 depending on how heavy i am on the accelerator.

Heres something for you to think bout. Running caltex my knock reading will fly around 40 50 and on bad day 60. When im running bp knock stays on 15 sometimes 20 on vtec 30......

[xenonkuraz]

I was using Caltex Vortex98 and I decided to change to Shell V-Power. I noticed a significant increase in km's, although I have a heavy foot and in my dc2 am only getting a maximum of 400kms a tank...I think that's bad.

I've tried to read through all the pages but can't really find what I'm after...

what's the best petrol for km's and performance? between BP Ultimate, Shell V-Power and Mobil Synergy?

Thanks.

[gheybo]

I tried broth Caltex Vortex98 and Shell V-Power. From what i have experience i get more km's on V-power than Vortex98.

I also get about 400kms a tank for my dc2r

[Alpine]

Do you guys reset your ECU every time you change brand of fuels?

[EL_DC5]

Do you guys reset your ECU every time you change brand of fuels?

No, at least i dont

I only reset when i mod something.

BTW i get more performance from Ultimate but alittle more Ks from V-power

[m0nk3y]

dont forget the car needs to be tuned for 98octane, theres no real point in running 98 if the car is only tuned for 91 or 95.

although 98 will help clean out your engine a bit.

Personally, i dont need to use PULP 98, Shell ULP is fine for my teg lux.

[blabla]

hey i had a d series engine before. for the best power and km's on the d series is the mobile premium unleaded. i use to get 500kms out of each tank with thrashing it. It runs alot smoother.

[terryansimon]

Well, try out every fuel at least once. If you have tried BP Ultimate, Vpower and Mobil 8000, give Vortex98 a go if they sell it in your area.

wouldn't doing so not give you a true representation of what the fuel can do for your car?

I was always under the impression that the best way to test the fuel's capabilities would be to run as high a percentage of the said fuel as possible. this would mean that if I want to test Fuel B, I need to make sure that I top up Fuel B whilst I have as little as Fuel A left as possible, and then proceed to top up Fuel B for the next few rounds to dilute and reduce the proportion of Fuel A out.

or maybe you're just "sampling" the goods before you give it a test run? :p

[aaronng]

wouldn't doing so not give you a true representation of what the fuel can do for your car?

I was always under the impression that the best way to test the fuel's capabilities would be to run as high a percentage of the said fuel as possible. this would mean that if I want to test Fuel B, I need to make sure that I top up Fuel B whilst I have as little as Fuel A left as possible, and then proceed to top up Fuel B for the next few rounds to dilute and reduce the proportion of Fuel A out.

or maybe you're just "sampling" the goods before you give it a test run? :p
I meant to try each fuel, full tank each time and use the same brand for at least 2 full tanks.

[terryansimon]

oh I see.

so I was right as well! yay. (=

[Leprechaun]

Was there ever a conclusion on this thread?

[RABBITrabbit]

what's the best petrol for km's and performance? between BP Ultimate, Shell V-Power and Mobil Synergy?

Thanks.

i reckon BP ultimate

[didz]

i reckon bp ultimate or mobil s8000

[Yasakani]

Anyone know how the Safeway premium unleaded 98octane (what was the name again?) compares with the others?

[m0nk3y]

Safeway is Caltex pretty much - use your dockets at Caltex. I think their Vortex 98 stuff is okay, its not my first choice - Shell is sually my best bet

but if i'm desperate for petrol and caltex is there, i'll stop and get some. heck i had to fill up some Boost98 from United the other day, the car felt crap for the $10 of petrol i put in.....i think there was ethanol in it. i wouldnt have got it, but the fuel light was on, and i was in the middle of nowhere.....

[94si]

This is a huge thread, but to keep all the information in a central place on here, check out the MoTeC fuel test.

http://www.motec.com.au/fueltest/index.htm

Along with the fith gear test posted pages back and the test at Bathurst some one was referring too.. the shell fuel (Shell V-Power racing in this case) came out tops.

V8 supercars use shell V-Power racing as the control fuel (in the same guise as you can get it at the pump.) Ferrari's F1 team use it (they add some stuff to it though).. and i use it. I think it's good stuff.

Helps to cure det in crazy stressed tunes too. :thumbsup:

[didz]

in terms of kilometres, i find caltex 98 to be one of the best for me. get about 500 kays with vtec here and there, shifting at about 4.5k rpm

[anjingbalap]

i found Vortex 98 is better than Ultimate for sum reason....

everytime i use ultimate i felt that my car become lack of power and heavier... and sumtimes missfiring... althought it gives me better KM's than other..

[Setanta]

I like the Vortex in my EH and GTi to be honest. The EH just needs leaded octane levels (close to 98) and the Vortex can be shopper docketed for cheapies. In the GTi I see a bit of drop in economy - the SiR hated it though. Had to go ultimate or synergy in it.

[ivanwkr]

Recently,I changed from bp98 to use Vpower on my euro, it gives me more about 40kms to go per half a tank, i dunt know why

[Datuk]

Love using the Vpower!

[vtec_man]

has any tried using the v-power racing?

[SeverAMV]

has any tried using the v-power racing?

apparently v power racing uses ethanol. considering how lean vtec'd hondas generally run, its not a good idea to use ethanol unless you've tuned your car for it, and you use up fuel like a vacuum cleaner. (otherwise your fuel lines will corrode as it oxidises to ethanoic acid)

[SeverAMV]

Safeway is Caltex pretty much - use your dockets at Caltex. I think their Vortex 98 stuff is okay, its not my first choice - Shell is sually my best bet

but if i'm desperate for petrol and caltex is there, i'll stop and get some. heck i had to fill up some Boost98 from United the other day, the car felt crap for the $10 of petrol i put in.....i think there was ethanol in it. i wouldnt have got it, but the fuel light was on, and i was in the middle of nowhere.....

like duh. United emphasise the use of ethanol. notice the CSR logo? that means they distill ethanol from CSR sugar. its absolute shite for all your new vtec'd hondas, but it works like a dream for my sohc non-vtec carby.

[aaronng]

like duh. United emphasise the use of ethanol. notice the CSR logo? that means they distill ethanol from CSR sugar. its absolute shite for all your new vtec'd hondas, but it works like a dream for my sohc non-vtec carby.

No, it works fine for new hondas (up to 10%), except for slightly worse fuel consumption. I'd worry for your carby though as your seals were not specced for use with ethanol.

[aaronng]

apparently v power racing uses ethanol. considering how lean vtec'd hondas generally run, its not a good idea to use ethanol unless you've tuned your car for it, and you use up fuel like a vacuum cleaner. (otherwise your fuel lines will corrode as it oxidises to ethanoic acid)

When running 98 RON, the AF ratio on my Euro was about 10.5 when using full throttle in highcam.

[SeverAMV]

No, it works fine for new hondas (up to 10%), except for slightly worse fuel consumption. I'd worry for your carby though as your seals were not specced for use with ethanol.

honda states its an 'acceptable level of corrosion' for new cars.
carburettors run more efficiently on ethanol based fuels, it somewhat counters the inefficiencies of the carby by supplying the extra oxygen present in alcohol.

[Alpine]

Is Mobil Synergy 8000 better than Caltex Vortex98?

[BF52]

I dont know if anyone mentioned this before as its a long thread, but...

To get cheaper BP Ultimate petrol...

Get a Citibank BP card to get a 5% discount... beats coles/shopper dockets.

[markoJEK1]

I dont know if anyone mentioned this before as its a long thread, but...

To get cheaper BP Ultimate petrol...

Get a Citibank BP card to get a 5% discount... beats coles/shopper dockets.

How do I get a card, I just started using BP instead of Vpower since Shell's fuel supply shat itself. Are there any expenses for getting the card, or is it free membership?

[SeverAMV]

its a BP citibank credit card. you must pay for the fuel using the card, which means you dont really save that much because of the fees associated with using the card itself. you'd have to be buying at least 50 litres for any real saving.

[markoJEK1]

Thanks for that, was thinking you can just get away with a discount card and them recieve nothing in return

[big tone]

How do I get a card, I just started using BP instead of Vpower since Shell's fuel supply shat itself. Are there any expenses for getting the card, or is it free membership?


SO it's just not up here in rockvegas weve run out 2wice last week and allready this week.

[markoJEK1]

Nope, its everywhere supposivly, the supply of vpower has been cut and they are bringing in something new, from what ive been told by one of the employee's there

[big tone]

Nope, its everywhere supposivly, the supply of vpower has been cut and they are bringing in something new, from what ive been told by one of the employee's there

new as in better more improved or sh&t.
we pay $1.31.5for v-power ( goes upto 132.9 @ the most)
and $139.9 for ultimate ( and thats on a good day, it fluctuates to much)
The guy's @ shell here in rocky said we wont see v-power racing at all due to lack of demand.

[NeRV]

I noticed Shell has purposely made unleaded fuel around my area empty and instead pushed their new unleaded E10 Ethanol fuel and making it the only available fuel... this was at two petrol stations.

[SLOWEGG]

There was a shortage on v-power around brisbane area in the last few weeks.

[BF52]

which means you dont really save that much because of the fees associated with using the card itself. you'd have to be buying at least 50 litres for any real saving.
What associated fees?
I dont pay a mastercard surcharge, if thats what u are saying.
Only cost is the annual fee which u pay for most credit cards anyway.

[big tone]

so does anybody have an idea whats gong on.. other than being a shortage

considering the fuel all comes off the same boat.

[silver_screen]

its all shit thats what

[Sp00ny]

I have owned my car (DC2, Factory Engine & Factory Tuning) Rebuilt with OEM Honda Parts, for over a year. My results are as follows:

I was going to write up a entire review of fuels but didn't think it was worth my time / usefull enough to the OH community. Keep in mind that during testing, my car was driven conservatively with consistant (throughout differant fuels) but few "trips into VTEC" and fuels wernt judged until a "run through" tank was used.

All measurements of Distance/tank is taken by a full tank (pump cuts off 3 times) until the fuel light displayed for the first time. (excluding when driving over irregular terrain). ALthough i acknowledged and researched this it wasnt an "individual project" just recording and being alert to changes in car behaviour. The trips taken were a mix between "country and city" driving.

Route:
From Eltham to Wantirna South (Knox City)
Distance: 27.2kms, Average Time: 38 minutes, Average Speed: 43.2km/h

In this case:
*"Full Tank" = 41-42 Litres so add a +-2% margin of error

Rankings:
1. Mobil Synergy 8000
2. BP Ultimate
3. Caltex Vortex98
4. Shell V-Power

Testing Order: Shell V-Power -> BP Ultimate -> Vortex 98 -> Mobil Synergy

Overview:

4. Shell V-Power
Pros:
- High End Power Output (above 5500rpm)
- Average to Above Average Fuel Consumption
- its "developed" by "Ferarri" :p
Cons:
- "Cracked" at 95 Octane, Large Amounts of Additives
- Unclean resulting in high carbon deposits
- Low end Torque suffers particulary below 3500RPM
- Rough and "Searching" Idle

I've found shell V-Power to be a "rough" and unclean fuel. Really only showing benifits to those who keep their engine above 5,000rpm, and have little care for fuel system cleanliness.

Average Km's/Tank* Results: 476km, 483km


3. Caltex Vortex 98

Pros:
- Relatively Cheap
- Average Fuel Consumption
- Illiminates Rough Idle
Cons:
- Scarce
- Average Performer in all areas

Vortex almost feels like the fuel that was developed for the car. The car has no noticable powerband, Stable Idle and Little to Medium Carbon deposits.

Average Km's/Tank* Results: 461km, 473km


2. BP Ultimate

Pros:
- Smooth and Very stable Idle
- Little to No Carbon Deposits
- Low End Torque
Cons:
- Expensive
- High-End Power Suffers noticably
- Poor Fuel Economy
- Not as good Cold/Cool Starts

BP Fuel is the fuel you are safe with. Its clean, provides a stable idle, and has good low end torque. However, fuel economy suffers noticably. Not for the 'hip-pocket' concious.

Average Km's/Tank* Results: 434km, 447km


1. Mobil Synergy 8000

Pros:
- Stable Idle
- Cheap at times
- Fantastic Fuel Economy
- Low Carbon Deposits
- Low End Torque (particulary noticable in high gears (3&4) below 4000rpm)
Cons:
- High End Power still has room for improvement
- Idle can be rough (although stable) compared to BP Ultimate

Mobil Synergy is the ultimate solution. It provides great fuel economy along with smooth and noticable low end torque. It isnt quite as clean as BP but is close.

Average Km's/Tank* Results: 498km, 513km


My results have been confirmed by two contacts that work for BP and Shell one of them in the refinary down in Geelong. Although they both agree that my results are consistant with their experience and knowledge. They raised very good points..."Although a fuel may be fantastic you may have a batch that is lower in quality sent to a district of fuel stations or possibly all for a period of time. Although you will find most fuels will give somewhat consistant readings. "

DC2 Fuel Guage Discovery

Extremes:
- Turning Right on a decent will decrease the fuel reading
- Turning Left on a accent will increase the fuel reading

Doing either will effect the fuel gauge less dramatically...Now that is almost completely and utterly useless information, but something I discovered none-the-less!

IMPORTANT FACT
Higher octane fuel is NOT directly related to improving power output. In fact, its the complete opposite. A higher octane fuel burns slower and more efficiently. Meaning less fuel consumption but less power output. The reason people may see gains in newer cars is because the Knock sensor may be restricting engine speed due to "pinging", when a higher RON is used...the car runs smoothly with un-interupted operation. Using the Lowest possible octane recommended for your car, in most situations should give you the most power. Eg. DC2 = Premium Unleaded (95 or more) so run 95. It also has to be used in high compression engines to avoid pinging which in turn can lead to detonation. Also a higher octane alows for higher compression resulting in more power. Higher octane has many benefits but to those who make use of it. Your not going to gain power by running 98RON in a car recommended for a 91 minimum. Technically you would loose torque.

EDIT: American Fuels are measured differantly in regards to their octane ratings. Thanks for the info, SeverAMV.

I thought I'd add that in, as I dislike when people are exposed to rumours or believe exagerated misinterpretations. Of course some people are just misinformed.


Anyway, (Wrote much more than I planned to) Hope everyone finds this information to be useful. I rarely drive anymore (uni), so im unable to take anymore readings of differant fuels, i am now consistantly using Mobil and are finding results within a small margin of variance to the ones above.

PLEASE REMEMBER:
These are my findings, yours may and most likely will differ due to differant circumstances and testing methods. In the end it is mainly my opinion along side facts.

Regards,
Andrew.

[SeverAMV]

your explanation has a flaw. americans dont get 87-90 ron, they use a different reading over there. their 91 octane is the equivalent of our 98 octane fuel. google it or wiki it if you want.

and some carbon deposits can be good to certain extent. on top of the piston, carbon deposits can increase compression a little. but your findings are useful.

oh and did you test each fuel on one full tank of it? or multiple tanks of each? multiple tanks would be more useful in verifying your findings to ensure consistency.

aside from that, some interesting info.

[Sp00ny]

Interesting, did not know that. Contrary to what ive been told my mechanics, but i can see the sense in it.

About carbon deposits, differances in engine to engine (same model, year, k'
s etc.) can make more differance than the gain that carbon deposits would give. Without even considering the fact that carbon deposits would sit on valve seats and restrict air flow through the exhaust.

At least one tank was run through before the 2 readings and results. I think i stated that at the top :S.

Thanks.

[<4n'D>]

this is a fantastic article, everyone.

http://canberracruises.com/Maclean/MiddletonReport-TechnicalReportonPowerGeneratingCapabilitiesofComm onFuels.pdfhttp://canberracruises.com/Maclean/MiddletonReport-TechnicalReportonPowerGeneratingCapabilitiesofComm onFuels.pdf

i wish the prices were still the same :(

[Limbo]

By feeling, I agree Optimax gives more power, but it feel like my car is addicted to it, just like taking drugs, I couldn't use other kind of fuel now, I used to be using BP Ultimate before but right now my car will be hard to start up and stall if i use fuel other than Optimax, so i don't know, i don't like it this way

Anyway, heard that every petrol company put different formulas in the fuel on summer and winter, so would anyone explain about it?

PS: Never tried BP vs Shell on dyno, i just used Shell to run the dyno and i got the "so-call" 100kw on wheel and that is quite fake to me

my car is addicted to optimax also

[Sp00ny]

After reading the article posted by 4n'D. Since my engine is rebuilt and should be relatively carbon free considering ive used 98 octane consistantly. I think trying out ethanol might be a good test. Which may get interesting results. Will post the results within the next month or so.

[<4n'D>]

im pretty sure that using ethanol in an engine not built for it isnt really the best idea though...

[mku01]

I have owned my car (DC2, Factory Engine & Factory Tuning) Rebuilt with OEM Honda Parts, for over a year. My results are as follows:

I was going to write up a entire review of fuels but didn't think it was worth my time / usefull enough to the OH community. Keep in mind that during testing, my car was driven conservatively with consistant (throughout differant fuels) but few "trips into VTEC" and fuels wernt judged until a "run through" tank was used.

All measurements of Distance/tank is taken by a full tank (pump cuts off 3 times) until the fuel light displayed for the first time. (excluding when driving over irregular terrain). ALthough i acknowledged and researched this it wasnt an "individual project" just recording and being alert to changes in car behaviour. The trips taken were a mix between "country and city" driving.

Route:
From Eltham to Wantirna South (Knox City)
Distance: 27.2kms, Average Time: 38 minutes, Average Speed: 43.2km/h

In this case:
*"Full Tank" = 41-42 Litres so add a +-2% margin of error

Rankings:
1. Mobil Synergy 8000
2. BP Ultimate
3. Caltex Vortex98
4. Shell V-Power

Testing Order: Shell V-Power -> BP Ultimate -> Vortex 98 -> Mobil Synergy

Overview:

4. Shell V-Power
Pros:
- High End Power Output (above 5500rpm)
- Average to Above Average Fuel Consumption
- its "developed" by "Ferarri" :p
Cons:
- "Cracked" at 95 Octane, Large Amounts of Additives
- Unclean resulting in high carbon deposits
- Low end Torque suffers particulary below 3500RPM
- Rough and "Searching" Idle

I've found shell V-Power to be a "rough" and unclean fuel. Really only showing benifits to those who keep their engine above 5,000rpm, and have little care for fuel system cleanliness.

Average Km's/Tank* Results: 476km, 483km


3. Caltex Vortex 98

Pros:
- Relatively Cheap
- Average Fuel Consumption
- Illiminates Rough Idle
Cons:
- Scarce
- Average Performer in all areas

Vortex almost feels like the fuel that was developed for the car. The car has no noticable powerband, Stable Idle and Little to Medium Carbon deposits.

Average Km's/Tank* Results: 461km, 473km


2. BP Ultimate

Pros:
- Smooth and Very stable Idle
- Little to No Carbon Deposits
- Low End Torque
Cons:
- Expensive
- High-End Power Suffers noticably
- Poor Fuel Economy
- Not as good Cold/Cool Starts

BP Fuel is the fuel you are safe with. Its clean, provides a stable idle, and has good low end torque. However, fuel economy suffers noticably. Not for the 'hip-pocket' concious.

Average Km's/Tank* Results: 434km, 447km


1. Mobil Synergy 8000

Pros:
- Stable Idle
- Cheap at times
- Fantastic Fuel Economy
- Low Carbon Deposits
- Low End Torque (particulary noticable in high gears (3&4) below 4000rpm)
Cons:
- High End Power still has room for improvement
- Idle can be rough (although stable) compared to BP Ultimate

Mobil Synergy is the ultimate solution. It provides great fuel economy along with smooth and noticable low end torque. It isnt quite as clean as BP but is close.

Average Km's/Tank* Results: 498km, 513km


My results have been confirmed by two contacts that work for BP and Shell one of them in the refinary down in Geelong. Although they both agree that my results are consistant with their experience and knowledge. They raised very good points..."Although a fuel may be fantastic you may have a batch that is lower in quality sent to a district of fuel stations or possibly all for a period of time. Although you will find most fuels will give somewhat consistant readings. "

DC2 Fuel Guage Discovery

Extremes:
- Turning Right on a decent will decrease the fuel reading
- Turning Left on a accent will increase the fuel reading

Doing either will effect the fuel gauge less dramatically...Now that is almost completely and utterly useless information, but something I discovered none-the-less!

IMPORTANT FACT
Higher octane fuel is NOT directly related to improving power output. In fact, its the complete opposite. A higher octane fuel burns slower and more efficiently. Meaning less fuel consumption but less power output. The reason people may see gains in newer cars is because the Knock sensor may be restricting engine speed due to "pinging", when a higher RON is used...the car runs smoothly with un-interupted operation. Using the Lowest possible octane recommended for your car, in most situations should give you the most power. Eg. DC2 = Premium Unleaded (95 or more) so run 95. It also has to be used in high compression engines to avoid pinging which in turn can lead to detonation. Also a higher octane alows for higher compression resulting in more power. Higher octane has many benefits but to those who make use of it. Your not going to gain power by running 98RON in a car recommended for a 91 minimum. Technically you would loose torque.

EDIT: American Fuels are measured differantly in regards to their octane ratings. Thanks for the info, SeverAMV.

I thought I'd add that in, as I dislike when people are exposed to rumours or believe exagerated misinterpretations. Of course some people are just misinformed.


Anyway, (Wrote much more than I planned to) Hope everyone finds this information to be useful. I rarely drive anymore (uni), so im unable to take anymore readings of differant fuels, i am now consistantly using Mobil and are finding results within a small margin of variance to the ones above.

PLEASE REMEMBER:
These are my findings, yours may and most likely will differ due to differant circumstances and testing methods. In the end it is mainly my opinion along side facts.

Regards,
Andrew.
i had a good read.. thanks andrew, and +rep for you! :thumbsup:

[V73C]

there both shit, go senergy 8000 from moblie.!

senergy FTW !!! mobil is a very pure fuel, no ethanol crap mixed in with it

[mku01]

hey V73C, is your pulsar running a sr20 with lift? you're andrew(fc3s)'s friend right? and you got a twin bro

[SeverAMV]

im pretty sure that using ethanol in an engine not built for it isnt really the best idea though...

actually, it doesnt really matter as long as you have an efi motor still using the factory ecu, otherwise, your motor will run extremely lean.

[icecrm]

well my dad said that he saw on TV there was a particular BP that was selling premium fuel as ULTIMATE.....so i been using vpower majority now on both Type R and S15

[rpm boy]

Now i wouldnt have believed it if someone told me but caltex vortex 98 seems to run the best in my b16 ... have no idea why it just gived a bit more grunt than the others

[Limbo]

Honda does not recommend it as the seals in the fuel system were not designed to run with ethanol. I'd rather stay away from anything with ethanol

[iversonruls]

mobil 8000 doesnt seem too good on my type S
may try caltex next time

[bennjamin]

Honda does not recommend it as the seals in the fuel system were not designed to run with ethanol. I'd rather stay away from anything with ethanol

According to the fuel station blurb , all post 86 cars can use ethanol fuel ( that is , the fuel systems can run it without deterioration)

Most new hondas state in the fuel filler area "safe for ethanol"

[Limbo]

read this then

http://www.honda.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/internet/Honda.com.au/Home/Owners/Ethanol/

Ethanol and your Honda

The following Honda vehicles may be operated using fuel containing up to 10&#37; ethanol (E10):

Accord
2003 onwards
Civic (including Hybrid)
2004 onwards
Integra
2002 onwards
Legend
2007 onwards
Odyssey
2004 onwards
Accord Euro
2003 onwards
CR-V
2003 onwards
Jazz
2004 onwards
MDX
2003 onwards
S2000
2004 onwards
Other Honda vehicles were not designed or tested with E10 and therefore the long-term effects are not proven.
Ethanol contains less energy value than petrol. In theory, some loss of power and fuel economy (possibly 2-3%) may occur when using E10.
For further information, please refer to your vehicle owner's manual, or telephone the Honda Customer Hotline on (freecall) 1800 804 954



It doesn't prove anything but i'm not one to take the chance to rip everything apart

[Limbo]

also have a look at this
http://www.onlinemechanical.net/ethanol-E10.html

It looks like this is where you got your blurb from, but it does have a disclaimer in relation to hondas, have a read.

Newer hondas are different

[vincikwan]

Optimax for me...way better than v-power...sorry not optimax. i meant ultimate

[Limbo]

yeah but where are you guys getting v-power from?
all the stations i've been to have dried up lately

p.s v-power is the new name for optimax

[Nepolian]

Just went through my first tank of V-Power. No better or worse. Mileage pretty much the same, if not a tad better.

There is no premium 98 of any sort in my area. I swear there is a conspiracy.! Every station I go to it has a friggin sign on the pump saying out.......empty.......blah blah blah.

Ill bet that it comes off at the end of the week and weekend tho!

[power_of_dreams]

I havn't used BP for a while (no vouchers rofl). Most of the time I use V-Power, but I think I get better fuel economy out of Caltex Vortex.

[vincikwan]

Bp ultimate is way better than shell...maybe its the clayton shell station that is diluting the fuel....

[chinesewhisperz]

if i'm not mistaken today should be the day we get ultimate back..fingerscross..oh yeah baby~

[iversonruls]

never get good economy with BP
soo i stay away from it now

[aaronng]

Bp ultimate is way better than shell...maybe its the clayton shell station that is diluting the fuel....
I use that Shell station often. No problems with it.

[power_of_dreams]

Is this the one on Stephensons Rd?

[aaronng]

I use the one on Clayton Rd.

[vincikwan]

i get better milage on ultimate then on v-power. more power too. tested on my s15, sp23 n now the dc2r.

[EK1.6LCIV]

I'd get it tuned for Ulitmate as the volume of V-Power Racing (100) isn't nearly as high as BPs range, there are times when my mates need fuel and there is no (100) for them to get, lol. As V-Power Racing is made in VIC only and has to be shipped around from there.

[todaek9]

Soo, What is in those race fuel then? Those like 106ron, 109, 120 etc...I tot they have Ethanol in them...

[gheybo]

if i'm not mistaken today should be the day we get ultimate back..fingerscross..oh yeah baby~

No BP Ultimate today around Sydney West, i poured Mobil synergy 8000 instead ;)

[aaronng]

Soo, What is in those race fuel then? Those like 106ron, 109, 120 etc...I tot they have Ethanol in them...

Probably a combination of toluene and xylene.

[Limbo]

Here read this:
http://www.motortrend.com/features/performance/112_0606_sf_high_octane_fuel

Aviation gasoline with an octane quality of 100 is often cheaper than 100 unleaded, thus it may look attractive to performance enthusiasts. First and foremost, 100 octane Aviation fuel contains tetraethyl lead (TEL); since 1996 it has been illegal to use leaded gasoline in a licensed street vehicle and you can be fined us to $25,000 for using it. Plus, leaded gasoline will damage the oxygen sensor(s) and catalytic converter(s) found in modern vehicles.
Aviation fuel is designed for low speed aircraft engines that run at 2700 to 2800 RPM at 10,000 feet altitude. Aviation fuel often contains hydrocarbons that are detrimental to the performance of a high-horsepower street car.

There are two grades of 100 octane aviation gasoline. One is identified as 100LL and is blue in color. The other is 100/130 and is green in color. The second number (130) shown for the green fuel is a measurement using a supercharged octane test engine. Although this 130 octane number is higher, it is achieved from an entirely different test and rating system than octane numbers determined with normally aspirated engines. For comparison, Rockett Brand 111 octane tests out at over 160 octane using the supercharged aviation method that indicates Rockett Brand 111 has a significant advantage in anti-knock ability over 100/130 aviation gasoline.

[dsp26]

According to the fuel station blurb , all post 86 cars can use ethanol fuel ( that is , the fuel systems can run it without deterioration)

Most new hondas state in the fuel filler area "safe for ethanol"

true... but in my previous car, the fuel filter element started deteriorating and so did the gasket in my afpr.

I have no probs using it on old cars, some may not be able to hack it though.. I make sure I change all my fuel lines and anything else thats prone to deterioration... only thing i haven't changed are valve stem seals :)

oh and for anyone who bought an afpr off eBay USA.. DO NOT use the rubber hoses they provide... those things expand and go soft and burst with E10

[aaronng]

^^ Aviation fuel /= racing fuel

[neut]

Was Using BP Ultimate, but then ive changed to Mobil Synergy 8000 just for a test, Its been a week so far and ive noticed alot of CHANGE! Engine runs stronger and smooth even at top end! doesnt struggle at the top end like Ulimate although synergy 8000 i noticed that i waste alot more petrol than BP ultimate. It also runs clean no doubt about it! but having second thought i think ill be going back to BP ultimate just becos theres so many BP petrol stations around :P Such more convenient (Melbourne)

[bj_mahoney03]

BP is a lot better fuel to use. I get the same extra kick of power from both V-Power (formerly optimax) and Ultimate, however depending on how I drive the car I can get between 30 and 60kms per tank extra from the Ultimate.

[tiksie]

I killed 3 fuel filters on my VR Calais 5.0L... Always used to use shell, then when I changed to BP Ultimate, everything was fine! Shell is so bad and very very dirty.

[kindra]

I use vortex at caltex. I personally think its better. One day, I used BP and it fuked up my car. Had to get a new fuel pump and with Shell.. It was just crap. So, I either use Mobile or Caltex. Vortex the petrol got me heaps of K's and the boost it had was pretty good.

[tiksie]

I don't understand why people are saying that they feel a 'boost'.. I never felt a difference in any of my cars when it was regular unleaded or Super Unleaded.

Heaps of my mates also say that they feel a boost with Super Unleaded.. Could it be just your brain 'thinking' that it's faster ?

[bennjamin]

i feel a lag in my car when i use unleaded 91.

[Nepolian]

i feel a lag in my car when i use unleaded 91.

Which unleaded 91 did you use, cause when I use BP unleaded 91 in my 121 bubble automatic with a/c on it feels less laggy than if I use Caltex unleaded 91.

Does that make sense, If you can tell me what you used? I'll avoid it so it wont make my car anymore laggier.

[bennjamin]

shell George. in my bike and gfs car - putting shell in makes it feel weaker and shit. Like those privately owned petrol stations fuel.
Anything else seems the same.