gearbox problem

[YLDCRD]

Hi there a mate has an eg with b16a
Hes also got LSD not sure if its aftermarket or genuine

but recently the shuttering of the gearbox has gone so bad that it clicks whens turning all the time even in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear actually pretty much all the time. sounds and feels absolutely PHUKTED.

Anyone can help me out on what is wrong? Maybe someone whos an expert can come out and take a quick look and a drive?

thanks in advance

[shmivic]

possibly rooted cv joints.

[YLDCRD]

possibly rooted cv joints.


Ok when i say clicking, i meant diff locking up lol

Definately not a case of cv joints

[90LAN]

get some new lsd oil 1st

or time for service on lsd

[OMG.JAI xD]

Remove the gearbox.




Youll end up doing it. Guranteed.

[Limbo]

yeah sounds like the LSD needs a service

[90LAN]

yeah sounds like the LSD needs a service

new correct lsd fluid does the trick
trust me

[YLDCRD]

new correct lsd fluid does the trick
trust me

Yeah you reckon its the oils ? because its seriously clunks and clicks whenever you turn in all gears and at any speed so i thought it was a phukted LSD.

ill check the oils today and see where its at.
Is there seperate oils for the lsd and gearbox or is it all one?

what type of gear oil should be used?

[YLDCRD]

new correct lsd fluid does the trick
trust me

Where abouts is the LSD fluid meant to go??

[digler]

gearbox oil and lsd oil are the same thing.
on a manual, to check the oil properly, you have to drain it. Where abouts are you located.

[seihoa]

did u recently do the clutch? or when u installed it to u over greased the bearing or wateva?

cause it could jst be grease between the clutch n flywheel causing it to shutter.

[YLDCRD]

gearbox oil and lsd oil are the same thing.
on a manual, to check the oil properly, you have to drain it. Where abouts are you located.

Im in melbourne south east. Trying to open the top filler plug to see if there any fluid in there. The thing wont budge, seems like it hasnt been opened since cave men era lol

[YLDCRD]

did u recently do the clutch? or when u installed it to u over greased the bearing or wateva?

cause it could jst be grease between the clutch n flywheel causing it to shutter.

Nuh its not so much clutch shudder.
Its definately to do with the gearbox. Im hoping its the gear oil for his sake.
Ill keep trying the bolt and see how it goes

[digler]

yeah they are usually pretty tight. when you drain it check the oil for metal debris.

[digler]

Im in melbourne south east. Trying to open the top filler plug to see if there any fluid in there. The thing wont budge, seems like it hasnt been opened since cave men era lol

if you were in syd i would come and have a look for you.

[YLDCRD]

if you were in syd i would come and have a look for you.

Appreciate the help bud.
Do you know if its better to go Honda trans fluid or go aftermarket? if so whats brands etc??

[90LAN]

gearbox oil and lsd oil are the same thing.
on a manual, to check the oil properly, you have to drain it. Where abouts are you located.


no they are not you fool

different weigths

can you tell us what happens when u put gearbox oil in your motor for us please lol

usually if its a aftermarket lsd i would go aftermarket like cusco, mutol, endless, redline , royal purple etc

[YLDCRD]

no they are not you fool

different weigths

can you tell us what happens when u put gearbox oil in your motor for us please lol

usually if its a aftermarket lsd i would go aftermarket like cusco, mutol, endless, redline , royal purple etc

Brought to the mechs, they reckon it might be driveshafts.
Because it only happens when turn and under load and when clutch is out

[YLDCRD]

Whats a rough price on replacing driveshafts if need be ??

[digler]

no they are not you fool

different weigths

can you tell us what happens when u put gearbox oil in your motor for us please lol

usually if its a aftermarket lsd i would go aftermarket like cusco, mutol, endless, redline , royal purple etc

i didnt relise there was a different filler hole for a lsd fool.
So in the context of which he was asking, YES they are the same thing dip Shit.

[digler]

Whats a rough price on replacing driveshafts if need be ??

After market drive shafts, sell for about 150-200. usually you can just buy the joints and rebuild them.

[YLDCRD]

Well can whats the labour charge and price on both buying new shafts and rebuilding shafts
Just so i know i dont get ripped off

im bringing it to mod project tuesday

[90LAN]

i didnt relise there was a different filler hole for a lsd fool.
So in the context of which he was asking, YES they are the same thing dip Shit.


please tell us what happens when u put engine oil in your gearbox please
so we can see who is the real dip shit
theres never been a different filler hole for lsd
its in the same spot as a non lsd box and the drain hole is in the same spot too
if you though it would be different if it had a lsd

[digler]

Is there seperate oils for the lsd and gearbox or is it all one?



Like i said IN THE CONTEXT of which he was asking YES they are the same thing. you dont fill them separately, do you.
Obviously there are different types of oils and applications depending on LSD and gear box.
As for engine oil in the gearbox i have no idea what your talking about, and i dont think you do either:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[digler]

At least DC2-pwr realises where your wrong LOL

[YLDCRD]

cmon guys who gives a F*** lol
I need to get rough prices on fixing these driveshafts
Better to rebuild them or buy new ones??

How much to replace shafts

[mnc]

Buy new ones preferably from a driveshaft shop as genuine ones will cost you a friggin gold bar. They should be around 200 bux per side =]

[e240]

no they are not you fool

different weigths


Actually, they are pretty similar.
A boutique LSD oil contains additives for the plates in the LSD.
If you're using a Helical LSD, You don't need a boutique LSD Oil.

As for different weights, I hope you're not running those Hyphoid / Transfer case oils in your BSeries Box? something like a 140 weight..

[e240]

please tell us what happens when u put engine oil in your gearbox please


The honda trans was originally meant to run Engine Oil - There's really no harm in using engine oil for the Tranny.

But on the topic, I thought the guy you're argueing with meant filling up from the same hole, lsd or not. He just didn't articulate it properly.

[YLDCRD]

Can anyone recomend any good driveshaft places?
Does bursons or any type of shop like that stock aftermarket ones???

[90LAN]

Actually, they are pretty similar.
A boutique LSD oil contains additives for the plates in the LSD.
If you're using a Helical LSD, You don't need a boutique LSD Oil.

As for different weights, I hope you're not running those Hyphoid / Transfer case oils in your BSeries Box? something like a 140 weight..

if you read he says he is running a aftermarket lsd or oem lsd
i had the clicking problem before with a aftermarket lsd
with new aftermarket lsd oil used it fixed the problem

have you used engine oil in your race car's gearbox if you think it can be used ?
love to see what happens after a few laps

[e240]

if you read he says he is running a aftermarket lsd or oem lsd
i had the clicking problem before with a aftermarket lsd
with new aftermarket lsd oil used it fixed the problem

have you used engine oil in your race car's gearbox if you think it can be used ?
love to see what happens after a few laps

He didn't say whether the aftermarket LSD is a Plate or Helical. All I'm saying is that Helical doesn't need special lsd oils.

You don't really know what the clicking is (neither do we - and his mechanic has said it was the driveshaft in the end). I'm not sure how you diagnosed it was his LSD just by him saying "Clicking" noise?

Pre-94, Honda Service Manuals state the use of Engine Oil. This is because MTF was not available yet. Honda MTF is basically just Engine Oil + Friction Modifiers. (Probably because Honda marketers though "shit, people keeps asking about engine oil for the gearbox, there is a market for MTF, lets make one so we can $ell it") - Many years ago when the B's first came out, we used engine oil (Mobil 1, 15w50) without any adversed effect. If not for my PLATE lsd, I doubt that even now if I ran engine oil, it would have much adverse effect.

But thats beside the point, the argument was whether gear oil and LSD oil was the same. Well, where is the LSD located? gearbox right? Does it have a seperate lubrication system for the LSD? Nope...it lubricates using the gearbox oil right? Therefore LSD oil is a type of Gearbox oil, and there IS a gearbox oil.

Anyway, why are you getting so worked up over this man?

[90LAN]

so would you use engine oil in your race car now
if you endorse it so much and say it works
would you warranty your race parts if i use engine oil in one of your lsd?
fact is most normal people would use engine oil for there engines
and lsd gearbox oil for there lsd gearboxes

[e240]

The DC2R is an LSD box, Honda recommends using MTF - Is MTF some special LSD oil? As I have said earlier, but you just keep choosing to ignore - For a Helical LSD, you don't need boutique Oils.

Fact - MTF is based on engine oil + friction modifiers,
Fact - Honda did state engine oil for their earlier gearbox (prior to MTF)
Fact - LSD Oil is a gearbox oil (So you're incorrect for calling the other guy a fool here)

Anyway, I'm done here - No point flogging a dead horse.



so would you use engine oil in your race car now
if you endorse it so much and say it works
would you warranty your race parts if i use engine oil in one of your lsd?
fact is most normal people would use engine oil for there engines
and lsd gearbox oil for there lsd gearboxes

[bennjamin]

The DC2R is an LSD box

but wait - you and mr Mfactory gave me a flogging for stating just that :)
Kidding ! Peace :)



Anyway.....any reports to the OP ? Any updates?

[e240]

^^ Hee Hee...

[90LAN]

i know you dont need aftermarket lsd oil for a helical lsd
but you choose to ignore my question about what you say you can use

so why dont you answer the question ?
i will buy one of you lsd and use honda eng oil in it
will you warrant it if it plays up ?

or will i be flogging a dead horse trying to claim in under warranty?

[fatboyz39]

To op,

either busted diff or you have a clutch type LSD where it locks when turning hence the clicking and clunking noise.

If you do have a aftermarket LSD, most likely a clutch type just buy the correct oil for it and it wont be as noticeable. Either cusco/motul.

[DC2-PWR]

To op,

either busted diff or you have a clutch type LSD where it locks when turning hence the clicking and clunking noise.

If you do have a aftermarket LSD, most likely a clutch type just buy the correct oil for it and it wont be as noticeable. Either cusco/motul.

OR redline:D

[MFactory]

For daily drivers and weekend warriors, Honda MTF is more than adequate. If it is just a daily driver that sees no harsh shifting whatsoever, then 10w30 engine oil is also more than adequate.

Honda MTF is just 10w30 engine oil + friction modifiers i.e Helps the synchros to "bite" better.

e240 did not state that you should use engine oil in a race car, so I don't know why you keep asking that.

for a Honda transmission, used on something that will see a lot of track time, what you want is:

1) Low Viscosity Fluid. This is 100% necessity, as the fluid needs to lubricate the bearings. Thick "Gear Oil" cannot do this, and will clog up the oil pathways

2) Friction Modifiers + Yellow Metal Friendly. The modifiers help the synchros to to "bite" better against the gear cone. A synchro ring after all is just a brake pad. The additives in the fluid MUST also be yellow metal friendly (i.e Brass Synchros). A lot of the "Performance Gear Oils" on the market are not yellow metal friendly, and every special "LSD Oil" on the market has the wrong type of friction modifier i.e They make the plates "slip", thus they also make the synchros "slip", which is NOT want you want when shifting at high rpm.

3) Shock additives. These make the fluid more shear stable at high temperatures, and help cushion the shock loads generated by the transmission.

Now, the following is probably hard for most to take in, as they've been brainwashed by the LSD Manufacturers for god knows how many decades now:

Helical/Torsen LSD - This is a gear type LSD, it does NOT require any special sort of fluid. Just use fluid that meets the requirements stated above

Plate LSD - This type of LSD uses plates, which rub against each other causing the "lock" (Helical LSD's do not lock as they are torque biasing). The more friction there is, the harder the plates will lock. A by product of this though is "chatter" i.e the noise commonly associated with a Plate LSD. As with the Helical LSD, a Plate LSD does NOT require a special type of fluid. Just use fluid that meets the requirements stated above. However, if you do not like the "chatter", then you should add Ford Friction Modifier in very small quantities until the level of "chatter" becomes acceptable to your ears. Noise control is the ONLY reason to use this type of friction modifier (which has the opposite effect of the friction modifier used in MTF or Synchromesh-type fluids) on the average street/weekend warrior. If it is a race only car, then you shouldn't be concerned with noise. In this scenario, using friction modifier is so that you can fine tune how much the plates "lock".

The ONLY reason why an LSD Manufacturer insists that you must use their "Special Oil" is because they are trying to make more money from you. And 90% of car enthusiasts, unfortunately, have been brainwashed and believe them (or believe their tuner/mechanic, who are just as brainwashed).

So to conclude:

Street Car/Daily Driver - Honda MTF
Street Car/Weekend Warrior - Honda MTF/Torco MTF/Amsoil MTF/Pennzoil Synchromesh
Race Car - Torco MTF/Amsoil MTF/Pennzoil Synchromesh
+ Plate LSD - Add Ford Friction Modifier until the noise level becomes acceptable to you. Everyone is different. However, the more you add, the less effective your synchros are at high rpm.

P.S If you are wondering why I left out Redline, it is because with 70% of our rebuild customers who had used it, it had destroyed their bearings. Some have luck, some don't.

[YLDCRD]

To op,

either busted diff or you have a clutch type LSD where it locks when turning hence the clicking and clunking noise.

If you do have a aftermarket LSD, most likely a clutch type just buy the correct oil for it and it wont be as noticeable. Either cusco/motul.


Im thinking it does have a clutch type LSD. However when just turning around a corner say at 60kms 3rd gear. it will still click. is this normal?

Yes it does have an aftermarket LSD, NOT OEM.
Whats the best OIL to chuck in it?? ill go drop and chuck some new one now if thats the case.

Called up mod project and they know the history of the car and suspect its gearbox LSD related and not the driveshafts. So back to square one, have to rip apart the gearbox to inspect.

[B18cEG]

so would you use engine oil in your race car now
if you endorse it so much and say it works
would you warranty your race parts if i use engine oil in one of your lsd?
fact is most normal people would use engine oil for there engines
and lsd gearbox oil for there lsd gearboxes

Stop trying to salvage your argument cos theres no point, u were proven wrong so you shifted your argument to RACE CAR this and RACE CAR that, whos talking about race cars hear? Yes we all know in the B's the trans oil and diff oil is the same since its in the same housing therefore in this situation the gear oil is trans oil, this isnt a car where there is a seperately mounted diff that uses a thicker/special gear oil compared to what the gearbox uses, Stop ur argument, you lost, we all do sometimes:thumbsup:

[B18cEG]

Im thinking it does have a clutch type LSD. However when just turning around a corner say at 60kms 3rd gear. it will still click. is this normal?

Yes it does have an aftermarket LSD, NOT OEM.
Whats the best OIL to chuck in it?? ill go drop and chuck some new one now if thats the case.

Called up mod project and they know the history of the car and suspect its gearbox LSD related and not the driveshafts. So back to square one, have to rip apart the gearbox to inspect.

You need to find out exactly what diff it has for best picking an oil

[YLDCRD]

Well maybe its clunking because it actually does have a clutch type LSD.
Sometimes depending on how i ride or take off, will determine how much clunking occurs.

I really just dont know, if this is how a clunking of aftermarket LSD is meant to be, thats s*** for a daily driver.

Is anyone in the area that is kind enough to take it for a spin and tell me if its normal or not. Knox Area

[e240]

Plate LSDs will clunk - I used to use an ATS and man, did it Clunk, especially at low speeds, sharp turn - TUnK TUnK TUnK, at the same time, you can feel the steering pushing, and the car lunching like both wheels are locked (But hey, thats whats its for isn't it) . It shouldn't really happen at high speeds especially when in 3rd (or maybe I just don't notice it at higher speeds).

Plate LSDs are good, much better than Helical, IMO, but Must keep in mind that both serve a different purpose, i.e. Helical more for street use (quiet, maintenance free and works under 90% of street situations)

You can actually test the service limits on the LSD and see if its working with the gearbox in the car. You need a torque wrench (the Dial/gauge type, jack up the car and then with the torque wrench, attempt to turn the axle - The torque reading you get until breakaway will tell you if the LSD is ferked or not.

[YLDCRD]

Plate LSDs will clunk - I used to use an ATS and man, did it Clunk, especially at low speeds, sharp turn - TUnK TUnK TUnK, at the same time, you can feel the steering pushing, and the car lunching like both wheels are locked (But hey, thats whats its for isn't it) . It shouldn't really happen at high speeds especially when in 3rd (or maybe I just don't notice it at higher speeds).

Plate LSDs are good, much better than Helical, IMO, but Must keep in mind that both serve a different purpose, i.e. Helical more for street use (quiet, maintenance free and works under 90% of street situations)

You can actually test the service limits on the LSD and see if its working with the gearbox in the car. You need a torque wrench (the Dial/gauge type, jack up the car and then with the torque wrench, attempt to turn the axle - The torque reading you get until breakaway will tell you if the LSD is ferked or not.

How exactly do you test it ? If i tell my mechanic would he know how to test it or do i have to bring it to a gearbox specialist? Would you recomend any gearbox specialists in melbourne?

[90LAN]

Stop trying to salvage your argument cos theres no point, u were proven wrong so you shifted your argument to RACE CAR this and RACE CAR that, whos talking about race cars hear? Yes we all know in the B's the trans oil and diff oil is the same since its in the same housing therefore in this situation the gear oil is trans oil, this isnt a car where there is a seperately mounted diff that uses a thicker/special gear oil compared to what the gearbox uses, Stop ur argument, you lost, we all do sometimes:thumbsup:


so why dont i get a reply to my answer

didnt lose anything just stating the obvious

do you use engine oil in your lsd box?

why dont you use eng oil in your gearbox too
and see what happens

your sticking up for your mate who says he uses engine oil in his gearbox in his race car
we used engine oil (Mobil 1, 15w50) without any adversed effect. If not for my PLATE lsd, I doubt that even now if I ran engine oil, it would have much adverse effect.

so learn how to read before you post stuff you dont know what your talking about


to the op nice to see you have a aftermarket lsd

did you fix your drive shafts yet ?

[B18cEG]

Ur an idiot 90LAN, wat u said originally has nothing to do with your current argument or " why don't you go put engine oil in your race engines box" piss off mate, I laugh at u. Ur just ignorent and one of those guys that sticks to something even if it's wrong. Yes you could run engine oil in ur LSD gearbox and it will run PERFECTLY BUT! push it beyond stock intended use and it will fail just like anyhing else. Question answered what do you want? What have you gained from this?

[90LAN]

i laugh too if you put engine oil in your gearbox

so if i have a few honda mtf bottles in my shed can i use it in my motor too

if you can use it vice versa ?

so are you going to be brainwashed into using engine oil in your lsd box too? lol

[bennjamin]

lan wtf is going on. 10/30 FEO used to be used in all honda manual gearboxes , now isnt. Its FEO with additives. But...who cares ? Relax big daddy !

I have to ask tho....( to those that KNOW).....when did FEO STOP being used ? ( that MTF was introduced) ? Because i bet that a oem torsen LSD equipped gearbox didnt exist in the honda range. Early 90's ?

[90LAN]

lan wtf is going on. 10/30 FEO used to be used in all honda manual gearboxes , now isnt. Its FEO with additives. But...who cares ? Relax big daddy !

I have to ask tho....( to those that KNOW).....when did FEO STOP being used ? ( that MTF was introduced) ? Because i bet that a oem torsen LSD equipped gearbox didnt exist in the honda range. Early 90's ?


yes they did they were a oem option in cable boxes 89 models

im am relaxed and waiting for answer from e240
in relation to my questions i asked him to his comments

ok big red ben

[bennjamin]

yes they did they were a oem option in cable boxes 89 models

cheers for that.

Now when was MTF introduced ?

[90LAN]

cheers for that.

Now when was MTF introduced ?

well just ask the people who were using engine oil for their lsd gearboxes
back in the day
when they started using mtf that will tell you when it was introduced

im saying it was released back in 89 when honda introduced lsd as a option
in the jdm market

theres also a few diff types of mtf you can get from honda too

[fatboyz39]

weight rating of honda mtf?

[90LAN]

weight rating of honda mtf?



75-80