Clutch - oops no power, no clutch - winnah car starts

[motaru]

:eek:

Hey Guys,

Iv got a 98 EK4 Civic though this could apply to any car I figure it belongs in this thread..

If you get into my car, put your foot on the clutch, then turn the key, nothing happens. Power goes, no accessories, no alarm, no lights zilch.

Clutch doesnt have to be held down when starting the car but, even if you just press down on the clutch once and release before starting the car. Bam - no power.

When I opened the engine bay the first couple times it happened I checked the connections to the battery, they are firm, however literally just applying the smallest amount of pressure to the positive connector brings the power back, lights flick back on it all works.
I have no idea why this changes anything though as the connectors are fastened the battery + and - posts tightly and securely.. Doing my head in..

I then hop in the car and start with *without* touching the clutch and vroom she starts like the EK i know and love.

Any ideas from anyone out there whos seen this weird sh!te happening before? I'd rather not take it to an auto elec if i can fix it myself, I've only very recently moved from Sydney to Melbourne and I don't trust any particular mechanics etc as yet so I'm tentative to lob up to a random every day autoelec..

Are my fears unrealistic? Or am I right to be cautious?

Oh - PS, I recently disconnected the battery to clean a bunch of that white corosion powder off the connectors and have put some vaso on the connectors to stop it from reocuring.

Thanks Guys,
Appreciate any feedback you can give ;)
- Adam,
Point Cook, VIC

[OMG.JAI xD]

"Oh - PS, I recently disconnected the battery to clean a bunch of that white corosion powder off the connectors and have put some vaso on the connectors to stop it from reocuring."



I never knew vaseline was conductive. Matter of fact. I never knew grease in general was conductive.

[motaru]

A friend of mine from Ozhonda infact said to clean off the corrosion and whack on the vaseline - should I not have?

Could that be contributing? :|

[motaru]

Hmm, lots of diy type sites are saying petroleum jelly is ftw? I got nfi

[geeang]

Pressing in the clutch has nothing to do with starting your car (unless you're in 1st gear).

Take battery connections off, clean it up, reconnect without adding vaseline and see how you go.

[motaru]

Just tested 10 times with clutch in, 10 times without clutch - alwaus in nuetral - all 10 clutch starts power goes out like a light, pardon the pun.

I have just taken the connectors off and gave them a good wiping down to get all the vaseline off them, reattached and firmly tightened the appropriate nuts.

I have an aftermarket Viper alarm system - any chance thats playing up with the immobilizer or something? Sound plausible?

[bennjamin]

Pressing in the clutch has nothing to do with starting your car (unless you're in 1st gear).

Take battery connections off, clean it up, reconnect without adding vaseline and see how you go.

just to add - its always good practice to depress the clutch when starting any manual car !

[tseesinngwailo]

Is there a switch on the clutch???

[CB7_OWNER]

How long has this started happening? recently since the battery thing? or you only just noticed.?


When you clutch in to start car, does it at least crank over? or nothing

[motaru]

It happened the first time last Friday I got home from work at about 6pm, hopped back in the car at 7pm to go out and bam - car didnt work - before the past week I have always putt he clutch in to start even if im in nuetral.. just a habit for the once or twice i tried to start and lurched lol

Um, I dont know if there is a switch on the clutch, I dont believe so, do you mean as in am i forced to clutch start or do you mean like an immobilizer switch? pl0x clarify Gwailloo

CB7 - if i put the clutch in and turn the key the first 2 clicks - the accessory lights come on, then i turn the 3rd click when the car should turn over and start but instead there is nothing - everything turns off, no in car lights, no headlights, alarm/remote locking is off if i try again with the key, theres no accessories no nothing until i go and apply pressure to the positive cable.
Iv had a good look and I dont see anything down under the dash that would indicate a moving cable or anything - or in the engine bay for that matter, my hunch is that its an electrical fault somewhere but eh, unsure at this stage.

Thanks for the responses so far!

[motaru]

Oh um, mentioned earlier was the vaseline on the connectors, can anyone confirm for sure yes/no is it a good thing to do or not?

[bennjamin]

Dude just remove the Vaseline from the terminal/s ONE at a time avoiding to touch the other, and see if that cures the issue.

[motaru]

Tried and tested with/without - seems to make no difference to issue, just wondered getting mixed responses as to general usage of teh vaseline meh

[geeang]

just to add - its always good practice to depress the clutch when starting any manual car !

Can you explain this ben? I hear people saying this is to help decrease wear on some parts, while some people say it's not enough to make a difference, or is it just a precautionary measure? :wave:

[GenesisEG]

I have heard that some manual cars have a switch that prevents the car being started if the clutch is not depressed, similar to automatic cars not starting in gear.

Perhaps it is related? I have no knowledge of these things, just a quick search about the problem revealed this switch exists. Perhaps an auto electrician could help?

[motaru]

Hey Guys, Thanks for the responses - ill certainly do more digging on the switch matter, but iv always been able to lean into the car and start it in nuetral before to warm up the car or whatever in the morning so i dont believe so.

Additionally though, its not even that the car wont start its that the whole car seems to turn off, like it would if there was no battery connected at all - doing my head in this one is..

Cheers,
Adam

[motaru]

Oh, and yeh i think an auto elec would be able to work it out, just moving interstate theres nobody here i know/trust yet so im a bit tentative.

If some melbournians could chip in some suggestions of some trusted mechanics/auto sparkys that would be great too! Im 20 minutes out west near point cook/werribee sorta direction..

Ta,

[bennjamin]

Can you explain this ben? I hear people saying this is to help decrease wear on some parts, while some people say it's not enough to make a difference, or is it just a precautionary measure? :wave:


precautionary ! its the common sense issue , that is some people park in gear while some dont. Ask a member on this forum what happened when he failed to test if in gear and started my car without his foot on my clutch ( SMASH x 2 cars)

You should always start with the clutch engaged regardless nothing to do with wear lol. :D

[tseesinngwailo]

I think maybe the other point is that maybe some cabling runs behind the pedal (alarm maybe) and is getting crushed by the force of the clutch,

Working in the electrical industry, we used to cover copper bars in vaseline before bolting together, this was for 1000amp + connections, so i dont think the vaseline is at fault here, maybe the battery terminal clamp is cracked??

Lie on the floor and look up at where the clutch pedal is hinged, (use a torch)

Look for a switch simlar to what you should see on the brake pedal, it may be faulty too

Shame your not still in Sydney, I would have been fixing this I am sure haha

Has anyone experienced the same issue??

[motaru]

Thanks gwailo, I'll check in the AM - I might see if I can even go so far as to pull a bit of the carpet back.. I think the carpets still loose from when the chap I bought it from was doing his sound system cable running. I'll post asap.

Thanks everyone,
Goodnight OzHonda.

[tseesinngwailo]

So any luck??

My money is on a switch (may even be aftermarket) loose battery terminals, or you being a NOOB!!!!! hahahaha (your mum hahahaha)
Please note, the above will really only be understood by the OP :)

Come back to Sydney for a weekend, we can sort it then, you should be doing your oil too, would be overdue by now I think??

[02gzm]

You mentioned you had a decent Viper alarm system? Sounds like there's a clutch switch/neutral safety switch that's shorting out and enabling the immobiliser. A lot of the upper Viper models use the signal from the clutch switch as a safety mechanism. You don't happen to have a remote start model do you? It's normally used for the remote start feature.

Take a look under the dash, behind the clutch pedal should be a switch with a 2 pin connector. One of the pins will read 12v when the ignition is turned to 'START'. The other will only read 12v when the clutch is depressed and the key is turned to 'START'. This is why you have power when the key is turned to 'ACC' and 'ON' but cuts out when you flick it to 'START' while the clutch is in.

The Viper alarm will probably be wired into one of these signal wires. I'd say it's safe to assume that the 'START' signal wire from the switch is exposed and touching the body of the car. Creating a short. It's probably where the alarm wiring is wired in. i.e. it has been covered up really dodgy.
Either that or it uses a relay for a similar effect and the relay has died. Which will cause the same problem.
;)

[tseesinngwailo]

Any news on this yet? 02GZM's got the best idea i think, to me it sounds like a short, especially if everything goes off.

[motaru]

You mentioned you had a decent Viper alarm system? Sounds like there's a clutch switch/neutral safety switch that's shorting out and enabling the immobiliser. A lot of the upper Viper models use the signal from the clutch switch as a safety mechanism. You don't happen to have a remote start model do you? It's normally used for the remote start feature.

Take a look under the dash, behind the clutch pedal should be a switch with a 2 pin connector. One of the pins will read 12v when the ignition is turned to 'START'. The other will only read 12v when the clutch is depressed and the key is turned to 'START'. This is why you have power when the key is turned to 'ACC' and 'ON' but cuts out when you flick it to 'START' while the clutch is in.

The Viper alarm will probably be wired into one of these signal wires. I'd say it's safe to assume that the 'START' signal wire from the switch is exposed and touching the body of the car. Creating a short. It's probably where the alarm wiring is wired in. i.e. it has been covered up really dodgy.
Either that or it uses a relay for a similar effect and the relay has died. Which will cause the same problem.
;)
Sorry i took so long to get back on ozhonda, working 12-14 hour days doesnt leave much time to tinker.. Ive just been distorting and twisting myself with a torch in hand getting under the dash to try to work this out, I ended up cutting the carpet to get under it to see what was there because I couldnt see any connectors above or around the immediate area of the clutch.. There was some wiring under the carpet resting on hideously dirty but very metal bodywork - that wiring looked pretty shoddy, Ive electrical taped that back up hoping beyond hope maybe a short was all it was? I reseated the connectors on the actual viper box itself and managed to tidy it up so you cant even see where I cut ;)

Ive been starting the car the last half hour or so and I cant get it to not start again.. Hopefully it starts in the morning hahaha

Thankyou 02gzm really appreciate your advice mate, I'll try to get on tomorrow night and let you know how I went lol

If it rains tomorrow as it has been every arvo at the station this week and it wont start I may just kill myself :D

After this, it goes to the auto elec to tear it apart and charge me through the asshole for it.

Goodnight OzHonda.

[02gzm]

No probs ;)

Hopefully it fixed it for good.

[tseesinngwailo]

U Noob, dont leave it at the station, thats what Hyundais are for :)