Is it worth it to mod your CL9 engine? Or just get a Golf GTI for a faster yet stock?

[natnat]

Thinking of modding my 2006 CL9 engine, but not sure if the time, effort and costs are worth it... getting a stock VW Golf MK6 GTI is already a much faster car. Your opinion?

[vtecing]

if you want a fast car get a dc5r, if you want a nice car keep the accord

[sodaz]

Depends on what you're after really. The GTI engine is more lazy (i.e. more power at lower revs) than the CL9 engine so you don't have to work as hard to get power which is good for daily driving but IMO less fun. The K24a when modded even on the slightly heavy Euro can be quite a fast car with enough room for carrying people and luggage. And the best thing I like about the Euro is its engine sound. Ultimately, the GTI can make more power easily because of its turbo engine.

BTW, from what I've seen so far, a modded Euro has no problems keeping up with a DC5R even on the track.

[natnat]

if you want a fast car get a dc5r, if you want a nice car keep the accord

I drove a DC5R back in 2002, the only issue was 2 doors only :). The Euro is indeed a nice car, and drives even sharper with BuddyClub N+ and 18" rims. But it's just lacking a 'kick'.

[snYpz]

well its really what your after. If you want a larger boot then stick with the euro. If you want a quicker car then the golf.
I really like how the cl9 looks so i'll just stick to modifying it to get more power and fun.

The gti is definitely a very very nice car indeed. Personally, i prefer a sedan, thus im sticking with the cl9. If i get a sports sedan, the only ones that i would consider atm would be the 335 or the is350 (which i think is coming)...both which cost too much than i am willing to spend at this point in time.

[antony]

Stick to the Euro.
I have just had a Jetta,which I loved,but VW dealerships are a real pain to deal with,and all VW products can be a bit niggly.

Nothing serious,but lots of squeeks and rattles,which will drive you crazy.
And the Euro sedan is much more classic looking than the hatchback Golf IMHO.

I could have got a new GTI,but went for the Euro instead...hope I will like it.

[OMG.JAI xD]

A euro was intended for the family market.
Its not a performance car.
Honda did produce the Euro R that had the k20a in it.

[natnat]

A euro was intended for the family market.
Its not a performance car.
Honda did produce the Euro R that had the k20a in it.

Unfortunately the CL9 Euro R is not available here... and have not noticed of anyone importing personally either. The FD2R is actually a tempting option, but after speaking to Top One's Dedy it just seems too much of hassle to import one.

[natnat]

well its really what your after. If you want a larger boot then stick with the euro. If you want a quicker car then the golf.
I really like how the cl9 looks so i'll just stick to modifying it to get more power and fun.

The gti is definitely a very very nice car indeed. Personally, i prefer a sedan, thus im sticking with the cl9. If i get a sports sedan, the only ones that i would consider atm would be the 335 or the is350 (which i think is coming)...both which cost too much than i am willing to spend at this point in time.

The BMW 335 and Lexus are way beyond the <$60k class..... they're probably for people who have spare $$$$$ laying around and confused where to spend them :)

[euromandeluxe]

Unfortunately the CL9 Euro R is not available here... and have not noticed of anyone importing personally either. The FD2R is actually a tempting option, but after speaking to Top One's Dedy it just seems too much of hassle to import one.

CL7 Euro R ** :D

[HondaRacer]

Supercharge euro CL9 :D

[hisoka]

dont bother modding your cl9 to be fast. make it vip style. otherwise everyones going to hate hondas even more.

if i were you and i was choosing between gti and accord cl9, i would choose gti for performance

[aaronng]

For speed on the track, go for the GTI. I've raced against one at Winton and the GTI goes through corners quicker than my Euro (which has coilovers and street tyres). However, the GTI can't overtake the Euro on the straight.

[redefine]

i'd personally go the gti...its a much lighter car which means you dont have to work it as hard, or produce as much power, to keep it going fast

[natnat]

on another note, the auto in CL9 is quite ordinary. but the DSG transmission is the sweetest thing i have ever tasted for auto :p

[aaronng]

Yes, the CL9's auto is a true auto transmission (with torque converter and its power losses). The DSG on the other hand is a true sequential manual with 2 clutches. Much less power loss with the DSG and quicker shifting times than compared to a manual transmission.

[antony]

I suppose it all comes down to what do you want...

A good looking 4 door family oriented sedan,or a good looking performance oriented hatch...

[euro1603]

Kind of funny that you bring up this topic cos i so happen to be minding my friends brand spanking new gti ..its a 55k car.. i drove it a few times, yes its damn fun when the turbo kicks in and yes the dsg gear box is awesome... it s brilliant hot hatch.. but you know what.. i end up leaving gti in the garage and driving my euro instead.. they're two different type of cars, for performance of course the gti will win hands down, its turbo and future turning will be much easier to get power out of a turbo car.. maybe i'm bias but i found euros that are dropped on its ass with some nice rims turned more heads then the gti.. i do admit the 18inch lambo look alike rims are off the hook....

[natnat]

the thing is i like driving on National Park twisty roads at midnight when there is little traffic and less chance of surprise chat with the law enforcer :) (and of course within the highway legal limit on these 15-45km bends)
i found a fully slammed Euro with excessively large rims are not functional for these kind of touge fun. although it does turn heads.

[raffyboy]

just keep your cl9 lighlty moded and i think you will enjoy it

[aaronng]

the thing is i like driving on National Park twisty roads at midnight when there is little traffic and less chance of surprise chat with the law enforcer :) (and of course within the highway legal limit on these 15-45km bends)
The RNP's road is not a highway, so you can't drive on it at 110km/h legally. Not safe too, since at night there are wombats and possums that try to cross the road. Plus the occasional drunk who overslept at the BBQ in the daytime.

[natnat]

The RNP's road is not a highway, so you can't drive on it at 110km/h legally. Not safe too, since at night there are wombats and possums that try to cross the road. Plus the occasional drunk who overslept at the BBQ in the daytime.

that's why i may need a safer car to keep me alive just in case :D

a comment from another forum:


......

On a side note here's an interesting story Peter at Heasmans told me last time I was there:

He said that he never thought anything much about Golfs before one particular customer came in to tell him his story. Basically he had 3 mates in the car with him, they were driving a MKV Golf through the twisties at 180km/hr, lost control and failed to haul the car up. They estimate that the car might havce slowed down to about 130km/hr before going off the road, hitting trees and it then rolled 4 times before it came to a stop. The car was obviously a write off, yes one side airbag went off (no other airbags went off!) and amazingly all 4 people in the car walked away without one single scratch on their bodies!

That clearly says that the Golf is one very solid and safe car to be driving, something all MKV Golf owners should be happy to hear!

[aaronng]

that's why i may need a safer car to keep me alive just in case :D
No comment on this.....................

a comment from another forum:[/QUOTE]
They survived because the deceleration from high speed was not abrupt. If they had hit a tree head on and went from even 100km/h to zero instantaneously, they would have died from internal injuries.

[natnat]

for sure they missed the trees, else there is no way of surviving the accident.

[snYpz]

agree with aaronng. Its not the speed that kills you, its the abrupt deceleration and the resultant force that causes the damage.
Thats why cars need designs and crumple zones to increase the time of impact in order to reduce the force.

Anyhow, the golf driver is a real dickhead to be driving at those speeds in twisties. I actually hope he did hit a tree on his side of the car....

[tron07]

I know someone on the forum with a euro, then change to a gti and sold it as the gti was giving heaps of problems.... according to him warranty was shitty as well.

One of my friend in Singapore have the supercharge and turbocharged golf, car went in for warranty claim 3 times, engine problem, then gearbox, and some other problem leaving him stranded in the highway before.

lemons

[sodaz]

In terms of performance, the GTI really isn't that quick and I can easily keep up with them in my modded Euro. But overall it's a fun car to drive due to its small physical size, decent chassis and flexible engine. But it's definitely no Sti or Evo.

Speaking of which, a good friend of mine is buying an MK6 one this week. I'll take that for a spin if I get the chance.

[Addictions]

Buddy, i previously owned a MK5 GTI and i can say, that is one awsome of a car to drive through twisties and the track, i had no mods on the thing, just a set of semi slicks, and i can say, the car handles! Although i have not had a chance to drive an MK6 yet so i can't really comment on that car, i have also had the chance to take an accord euro around for a month, hitting twisties and the track, it was stock though, just a really good set of tyres aswell on the car, it also handles, the euro lacks the rigidity, power, torque and ability to power into and out of the corner as quick as the euro. The VW does lack itself in boot space and the modding market, things for the car arent as easy to find. For guys that have stated earlier that the euro has been able to beat a GTI in a straight line, i have a hard time believing it as i have raced more then apx. 6 euro's at Eastern creek, modded and what not, and i have always finished ahead of them. I'm not also a fan of straight line races as im more of a twisties person myself, the GTI's are ok, but when they have been re-flashed, they are quick!
I have now sold the car and drive a V6 Accord CM (NON-Euro) i still do my occasional spirited driving throught the twisties and the car is stock standard, unless you consider seat covers a "mod" lol and the only thing i can say is that the car is a boat!

Guys, that is my two cents to the OP, so i dont think theres any flaming needed right?

[aaronng]

Put semi slicks on the Euro, you get a similar ability to power out of corners too. Semi slicks do transform a car's handling characteristics very easily.

[natnat]

but with lightly modded Hondas you need to be at high rpm to get the torque kick. unless you go all in like this: http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/1st-gen-image-gallery/32505-malkolm-s-accord-euro-r-replica-2.html

[aaronng]

but with lightly modded Hondas you need to be at high rpm to get the torque kick. unless you go all in like this: http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/1st-gen-image-gallery/32505-malkolm-s-accord-euro-r-replica-2.html

What torque kick? The CL9's peak torque is at 4500 rpm! There is less torque at any RPM above that.

[tony1234]

I know someone on the forum with a euro, then change to a gti and sold it as the gti was giving heaps of problems.... according to him warranty was shitty as well.

One of my friend in Singapore have the supercharge and turbocharged golf, car went in for warranty claim 3 times, engine problem, then gearbox, and some other problem leaving him stranded in the highway before.

lemons

I too have heard negative things re:warranty about VWs in general.

[natnat]

it could be because the Mk5 GTI's were made in South Africa, hence the myriad of issues inherent with them?!

[HunterZero]

I saw on Top Gear that the UK built FN2 Civic Type R edged out the Mk V GTI around their test track, but the Type R's ride is much worse, and it's not as nice to drive. And it is disappointing that Honda would let a car with torsion beam rear suspension instead of double wishbone (FN2 Civic) wear a Type R badge...

If you can splash a bit more cash, you should be able to get a decent Golf R32 for a decent price now.

- HZ

[natnat]

YES, cash to splash! This Sat $20m lotto guys!! :) Your wildest car dreams could come true. And you could personally import a Toyota Inova / Isuzu Panther (if you come fr this particular place you would know) to fit in the whole extended family, :p

[aaronng]

I saw on Top Gear that the UK built FN2 Civic Type R edged out the Mk V GTI around their test track, but the Type R's ride is much worse, and it's not as nice to drive. And it is disappointing that Honda would let a car with torsion beam rear suspension instead of double wishbone (FN2 Civic) wear a Type R badge...

Hey! Don't diss the rear torsion beam. It is effectively a free upgraded rear sway bar. :p

[vorace]

GDay,
I have a 06 Euro Lux manual and a 07 GTI 3dr manual. The GTI is easily the gruntier car in day to day situations because of the turbo torque. In isolation the GTI is a wonderful allrounder with firm, predictable benign handling, excellent low end grunt, solid build and good economy. I havent had any warranty problems with it yet.

Having said all that, it is the Euro that is my favourite car! Mine is only slightly modded with lightweight 17in Enkeis, std springs on Koni sport shocks (with perch set on the lowest setting-15mm down), H&R RSB and Hawk HPS pads. The engine is std. Back to back it is just much nicer and sportier than the GTI. It has better build quality, is more refined, yet has a better engine note and nicer top end revability, way better gearshift, sharper steering feel and better turn in and better economy. The GTI only really beats in bottom end grunt and braking. On fast road driving eg. Old Pacific Hwy north of Sydney, the GTI is really only satisfying to 6/10s, the Euro is just more fun as you push harder and harder, from the free revving throttle responsive engine to the lightning slick gearshift and the grippy chassis. It is easily as fast as my GTI on those roads.

So in answering the initial question, without having mods to my cl9 engine, for me it is still the nicer car than the GTI. It is easily as fast on certain roads. My experience with the GTI is while it undoubtably has much more bottom end grunt/driveability, this dies off after 5000rpm with little extra push to the 6500 redline. Of course if you wind out the Euro, the engine is starting to kick at 5k and then again at 6k vtec point all the way to 7k+ rpm.

[felixd]

hmm cl9 is a great car to drive just minor mods such as intake n header n sport springs will giv u a happy face on the street :)

[Golf_R]

O_O" same here,,,,,thinking to sell my cl9...........and get a civic type R or a mini cooper S (the 07 model R56 one, it looks slightly better )
so sad>.<

[sodaz]

The CL9 Euro has a very good and sporty chassis to begin with which is why so many people want to mod it to unleash its potential.

I've got a mate who's got an Evo X MR and I've borrowed it for a few days before, IMO, a Euro with I/H/E + coil-overs & bracing is not any less fun to drive fast even though it doesn't have the same amount of grunt and 10/10th handling.

[Lerlo]

Mk6 GTI is fugly IMHO, Get a Mk5

[integral90]

The conclusion I, and a lot of other members seem to have drawn is that the Euro is an awesome performance platform: The engine responds well to bolt ons, and even better to proper tuning. The chassis is sharp, feedback is very sporty and the speeds you can throw the car through corners still surprises me.

But seeing as your question is "Is it worth it to mod your CL9 engine?", I'd say; only if you've got deep pockets. The engine has as much potential as the money you throw at it. If you're planning on putting 2-3k into it and expecting to keep up with V8s, then don't bother. But if you're willing and able to go all out and be realistic, then the K24 won't let you down.

[natnat]

So, what is $6k-$8k best spent on the CL9 for engine?

[integral90]

For a properly potent Euro, I'd budget closer to $10,000. Roughly:

$4,000 for intake, throttle body, intake manifold (not necessary), header, cat and catback + labour
$1,500 for lightened flywheel and clutch + labour
$3,500+ for a stand alone ECU with a dyno tune

That's all you'd really need for good, useable power at the wheels and acceleration... But then to put that power down you'd need to budget (I'd say) another $3,500 or so for suspension and grippy tyres.

[aaronng]

$4,000 for intake, throttle body, intake manifold (not necessary), header, cat and catback + labour

I reckon that amount covers only the parts and is not enough to include labour. :p

[integral90]

I reckon that amount covers only the parts and is not enough to include labour. :p

Haha, I'm assuming most people can do most of it themselves :p

Are you going to the cruise on Sunday?

[aaronng]

Haha, I'm assuming most people can do most of it themselves :p

Are you going to the cruise on Sunday?
Trying to, but need to swap the accessory belt over and change MTF first. I'm kinda shagged since I got home from work at 12am last night.... So only chance to do it is tonight or tomorrow (assuming something else doesn't come up tomorrow). You going? It might give me the motivation to do a late night MTF change.

[natnat]

For a properly potent Euro, I'd budget closer to $10,000. Roughly:

$4,000 for intake, throttle body, intake manifold (not necessary), header, cat and catback + labour
$1,500 for lightened flywheel and clutch + labour
$3,500+ for a stand alone ECU with a dyno tune

That's all you'd really need for good, useable power at the wheels and acceleration... But then to put that power down you'd need to budget (I'd say) another $3,500 or so for suspension and grippy tyres.

mm... bump it up to $40k i can can trade in my CL9 for a Golf R coming up this Jun/Jul :p

[integral90]

Trying to, but need to swap the accessory belt over and change MTF first. I'm kinda shagged since I got home from work at 12am last night.... So only chance to do it is tonight or tomorrow (assuming something else doesn't come up tomorrow). You going? It might give me the motivation to do a late night MTF change.

Yeah man, I'm going! I need MTF too :( ... I don't think there's a fluid/oil in that car that doesn't need changing


mm... bump it up to $40k i can can trade in my CL9 for a Golf R coming up this Jun/Jul :p

I'd still much prefer a nicely balanced, modified Euro :)

[euro1603]

just came back from a quick spin in my friends mk6 gti, seriously as much as i love my euro and i would still prefer my euro over this car.. performance wise.. cmon.. the gti will smoke the euro even with the 10k mods that was mention in a few post back, i don't have any facts for that sake. But the shear acceration i was getting out of this car in the sports shift mode with the dsg gear box.. the euro don't stand a chance.. honestly a euro is a luxury/sport saloon and a mk6 gti is a hot hatch.. two different types of cars all together..

[natnat]

another thing is that the extra $$$$$ spent on performance modding a Euro would become worthless to majority of potential used Euro buyers (except young males..) and might even decrease the value too. in most cases the aftermarket parts are stripped off for fire sale prior to listing the car on the market. Yet, a GTI without extra mod is a hot hatch already. Mm.. still in dilemma, the fact that my Missus already has a 118TSI complicates this even more for having two Golf's in the garage :p

[Type R Positive]

another thing is that the extra $$$$$ spent on performance modding a Euro would become worthless to majority of potential used Euro buyers (except young males..) and might even decrease the value too. in most cases the aftermarket parts are stripped off for fire sale prior to listing the car on the market. Yet, a GTI without extra mod is a hot hatch already. Mm.. still in dilemma, the fact that my Missus already has a 118TSI complicates this even more for having two Golf's in the garage :pI think your heart really wants a GTI! Plus you get to have a new car, with is always fun and inspiring!

[aaronng]

Mm.. still in dilemma, the fact that my Missus already has a 118TSI complicates this even more for having two Golf's in the garage :p
Nothing wrong with having two Golfs, especially if you like them.

[Type R Positive]

Interestingly, the gti smoked the wrx hatch by 2 seconds around the track on 5th gear.

[euro1603]

another thing is that the extra $$$$$ spent on performance modding a Euro would become worthless to majority of potential used Euro buyers (except young males..) and might even decrease the value too. in most cases the aftermarket parts are stripped off for fire sale prior to listing the car on the market. Yet, a GTI without extra mod is a hot hatch already. Mm.. still in dilemma, the fact that my Missus already has a 118TSI complicates this even more for having two Golf's in the garage :p

looks like you have made up your mind.. in fact, why did you even consider a euro? what about the euro do you like? hmm personally, cmon 2 golfs in the garage is a bit hmm don't know.. if you;re a millionaire would you have a ferrari 430 and a ferrari 430 scuderia ? if you want to look at hot hatches, golf gti would be the cream of the crop.. but otherwise there are quite a number of other choices.. i agree the fact that selling a modded car is harder, i guess the buyers perception is that you would have thrashed the car. so if you want performance.. mate the answer is simple... GTI

[sodaz]

Just came back from driving the MK6 for a few hours and here are my quick impressions.

Compared to the MK5, it seems to have a lost a bit of the old engine note and the powerband felt even more linear as if it's NA. There's almost no feeling of boost and the car pulls effortlessly from a standstill. DSG gearbox is still the same with a bit of hesitation off the mark but ultra smooth shifts once moving. It's got firm suspension like the MK5 and there's minimal body roll in corners. Interior quality is pretty good and the cabin is reasonably quiet too. I didn't mind the exterior too, it was better looking in person than photos. I also loved the steering wheel, it had a nice thick rim and beautifully sculped buttons and details. The center console looked great too and had a big colour screen.

Compared to my modded Euro which has I/H/E and coilovers it didn't handle as good and wasn't as stable. The engine also didn't have the same urgency or sound. Overall the Euro was more fun to drive to me. My wife was in the GTI too and even she agreed with me. One other thing I noticed was that the GTI had much better brakes compared to the Euro. It had much better bite and progression in comparison.

[snYpz]

To me, natnat has made up his mind. It seems that he after some convincing to stick with the euro.

Mate if you like the gti, get it dude...its whatever that suits your needs and your requirements ;)

[natnat]

To me, natnat has made up his mind. It seems that he after some convincing to stick with the euro.

Mate if you like the gti, get it dude...its whatever that suits your needs and your requirements ;)


I actually went to McGrath VW this afternoon to check out what GTIs they have in stock (my minimum options are DSG, Detroit 18s and HID, and the deal was $45k) as VW Australia is running specials at the moment, and to check what trade in price the dealer is willing to pay for the CL9 to save me some hassles (obviously they offered rock bottom price of $15500 for Dec06 Luxury Auto 37.5k km on the clock, which i am sure if i list it privately at this price it will be gone in 1 day or less. Barloworld offered $20k).

2 critical things still holding me back: i want to see the Golf R first & i need share prices of QBE to go up $25 and IPL $3.75.

I do enjoy the CL9 and if the 2 critical things above do not turn up as expected, i may as well keep the CL9 for 2 more years and perhaps get Injen CAI + J's Racing Exhaust system to satisfy my craving for more power :p

It is interesting to hear what people think and i really appreciate that :)

Wisdom comes from many counsels. But too much counsels will screw up your brain if you got no goals.

[snYpz]

well if you're gonna want more performance from your cl9 with simple bolt ons, go intake, header, pulleys and possibly a simple piggyback ecu management. Exhaust wont get you that much gain in power. Pulleys will get quicker rpm pick-up and headers more with mid-range gain. Injen normally provide more gains in the higher ranges of rpm so look into other options with intakes for different gains.

Good luck anyways with the car. My brother also wanted to get a gti but want practical enough being a hatch. He is now looking at perhaps wrx or sti.