Accord Euro Engine Chain

[Adrian Euro]

Hi,
My car seems to be making this tapping noise when i accelerate on the throttle. It sounds a bit like a small truck taking off.

This tapping noise can only be heard when accelerating.

The guys who tune my car seem to think its the engine chain and i have been told thats a very expensive job.

My car has done a few km's at 196,000km.

Does anyone have any thoughts? Is there a cheaper alternative?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[felixd]

check the valve tappets ?

[buddah51au]

At that milage a Timing Chain rattle is quite possible, more than likely due to worn chain guides / tensioner. & yes it could hurt your hip pocket.

[aaronng]

Have you had the valve clearance checked at the 160,000km or 200,000km service? Does the sound occur when the engine is cold or hot? If you did and it only happens when the engine is cold, then look at replacing the timing chain tensioner ($300-400). However, if it happens when the engine is hot, then I agree that the chain guides could have worn out, and you will be looking at more $$$ to replace the parts, at least $1000 I reckon.

[praja6]

At that milage a Timing Chain rattle is quite possible, more than likely due to worn chain guides / tensioner. & yes it could hurt your hip pocket.

HI Buddah,

Our Accord Euro CU2 also using timing chain, not timing belt rite...I heard the timing belt should be replaced for cars every 90k, but i thought timing chain is for life time no need to replace.. I might be wrong

THanks

[OMG.JAI xD]

HI Buddah,

Our Accord Euro CU2 also using timing chain, not timing belt rite...I heard the timing belt should be replaced for cars every 90k, but i thought timing chain is for life time no need to replace.. I might be wrong

THanks

All newer hondas use timing chains.

The engine in the cu2 is similar to that of the CL9. Its still a k24.

[aaronng]

HI Buddah,

Our Accord Euro CU2 also using timing chain, not timing belt rite...I heard the timing belt should be replaced for cars every 90k, but i thought timing chain is for life time no need to replace.. I might be wrong

THanks
The chain doesn't usually wear, but the tensioner and guides do wear out and need to be replaced. The plus side is that the chain rarely snaps and destroys your engine, whereas a timing belt can if you neglect it.

[buddah51au]

HI Buddah,

Our Accord Euro CU2 also using timing chain, not timing belt rite...I heard the timing belt should be replaced for cars every 90k, but i thought timing chain is for life time no need to replace.. I might be wrong

THanks

The K24Z3 engine fitted to the CU2 does not use a timing belt, but a chain. Sure a chain is meant to last the life of the engine, however the chain runs along guides (timing chain guides) along with a timing chain tensioner designed to keep tension on the chain. Over time the guides wear, the tensioner wears & there may be an immeasurable amount of stretch in the chain & wear in the chain linkages. When a problem develops in this area it is normal practice to replace the chain, guides & tensioner at the same time. It is impossible to put an estimated life span on these components as for kms traveled. It would be more accurate to measure in the millions of engine revolutions over a given period & no 2 engines would spin the same revolutions over the same kms traveled if you can understand what i am trying to say.

I guess as an example lets say you go on a trip of 1000kms & over that distance average 2500rpm - that = 150,000rpm an hour, so if it takes 11 hours to travel that 1000kms the engine has done 1,650,000revolutions. But to travel that same distance in city driving the engine would more than likely have done well over 3 million revolutions, if you get my point.

This is the same reason that all the running gear on a country vehicle with the exception of suspension components and CV joints is usually lasts far longer than a vehicle that spends most of it's life in a city, given of course they are serviced equally.

Hopefully that example is understandable.

[Adrian Euro]

The K24Z3 engine fitted to the CU2 does not use a timing belt, but a chain. Sure a chain is meant to last the life of the engine, however the chain runs along guides (timing chain guides) along with a timing chain tensioner designed to keep tension on the chain. Over time the guides wear, the tensioner wears & there may be an immeasurable amount of stretch in the chain & wear in the chain linkages. When a problem develops in this area it is normal practice to replace the chain, guides & tensioner at the same time. It is impossible to put an estimated life span on these components as for kms traveled. It would be more accurate to measure in the millions of engine revolutions over a given period & no 2 engines would spin the same revolutions over the same kms traveled if you can understand what i am trying to say.

I guess as an example lets say you go on a trip of 1000kms & over that distance average 2500rpm - that = 150,000rpm an hour, so if it takes 11 hours to travel that 1000kms the engine has done 1,650,000revolutions. But to travel that same distance in city driving the engine would more than likely have done well over 3 million revolutions, if you get my point.

This is the same reason that all the running gear on a country vehicle with the exception of suspension components and CV joints is usually lasts far longer than a vehicle that spends most of it's life in a city, given of course they are serviced equally.

Hopefully that example is understandable.

so by the sounds of it you would not recommend only changing the guides and the tensioner to save a little bit of money. Is it more advisable to replace the whole three parts?

[aaronng]

so by the sounds of it you would not recommend only changing the guides and the tensioner to save a little bit of money. Is it more advisable to replace the whole three parts?

The part that costs the most is labour. So you might as well change the chain as well while you have everything out.

[buddah51au]

so by the sounds of it you would not recommend only changing the guides and the tensioner to save a little bit of money. Is it more advisable to replace the whole three parts?

number 8 is timing chain
number 9 is tensioner
11,12 & 13 are timing chain guides.

This is a labour intensive job, so that is where most off the $$ will be. Do not skimp on parts, it is best to replace everything. As aaronng said it is very rare for a timing chain to snap, but i have seen it happen. This is more than likely due to wear or metal fatigue in the pins that join the chain links together.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo325/buddah51au/TL24E1100.png

[praja6]

It may be an easy job for aaronng or buddhah to replace the chain, but for people like me know nothing about engine its a tough job

THanks BUddah for sharing these valuable informations....

Big costing part is the labour cost....the part may cost same price or even less than labour..remember when i asked for foglight set, the dealer quoted me 305 for fog light kit, but they asking labour for 295....May be reasonable..

[TRaNz]

i seem to have an issue like this.....so if i hit cbf mode and not bother to address this issue....wat are the consequences? lol....just hearing how it can cost more than $1000 makes me feel crappy as i was gonna order another set of wheels from japan..LOL

[buddah51au]

i seem to have an issue like this.....so if i hit cbf mode and not bother to address this issue....wat are the consequences? lol....just hearing how it can cost more than $1000 makes me feel crappy as i was gonna order another set of wheels from japan..LOL

If you have timing chain / guide / tensioner problems & fail to rectify the problem a number of more expensive repairs can be the result. A few examples follow -

A broken Guide

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo325/buddah51au/image002.jpg

Guides worn through to the metal backing, metal particles then get into the oil & can do any amount of damage if not picked up by the oil filter

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo325/buddah51au/373626364.jpg

A broken chain

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo325/buddah51au/0629082125.jpg

A total mess

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo325/buddah51au/DCP01299.jpg

The beginning of the end

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo325/buddah51au/slipper1.jpg

A badly worn tensioner

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo325/buddah51au/XK8-Worn-Parts-Upper-Timing-Chain-T.jpg

Another broken chain

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo325/buddah51au/mump_1004_10_omustang_oil_analysist.jpg

As much as we all hate spending money, this is a problem that needs to be addressed as soon as the problem arises.

[TRaNz]

damm...mine just sounds like a light tractor...or something....not quite diesel....LOL

[Adrian Euro]

Hi,

I have realised something else today that this tractor noise still occurs when engine is turned off. SO if you are driving along oyu have this chugging tractor noise then if you turn the engine off and keep rolling to a stop the chugging still contrinues until the car stop. Can this mean that its not the chain, guides and tensioner?

Also another enquiry if oyu have a worn guide or tensioner would this cause a jerk in the car when you touch the excelerator? Like i mean you have a light tap on the acelerator and it feels like the whole car lags and tries to catch up causing a very uncomfortable jerk like your not having the right right friction point or something????

Thoughts?

[buddah51au]

Hi,

I have realised something else today that this tractor noise still occurs when engine is turned off. SO if you are driving along oyu have this chugging tractor noise then if you turn the engine off and keep rolling to a stop the chugging still contrinues until the car stop. Can this mean that its not the chain, guides and tensioner?

Also another enquiry if oyu have a worn guide or tensioner would this cause a jerk in the car when you touch the excelerator? Like i mean you have a light tap on the acelerator and it feels like the whole car lags and tries to catch up causing a very uncomfortable jerk like your not having the right right friction point or something????

Thoughts?

If the engine is not turning over it can't be a timing chain rattle. But how can you be driving with the engine turned off - no power steering / poor braking, it just doesn't sound feasible to me. But if you mean the engine is idling then yes you can still have a timing chain rattle.

If the chain / guides are worn bad enough it can alter the ignition timing by a small margin which would alter the performance of the car.

[Adrian Euro]

If the engine is not turning over it can't be a timing chain rattle. But how can you be driving with the engine turned off - no power steering / poor braking, it just doesn't sound feasible to me. But if you mean the engine is idling then yes you can still have a timing chain rattle.

If the chain / guides are worn bad enough it can alter the ignition timing by a small margin which would alter the performance of the car.

Hey what i mean right is say you drive at like 40km/h you hear this tractor chugging right.... i then turn the car off at the ignition...... and keep rolling the chugging still occurs. (this is done obviosuly in a back street and yes everything locks up but becuase i am in a street with no cars this is fine) and this continues until the car comes to a complete stop, noise still occurs when the gear box is in free on this occassion. Now from my understanding when the engine is turned off the the timing chain wont be revolving and hence this noise cant be coming from the engine chain? I hope that makes sense.

[Adrian Euro]

Hey what i mean right is say you drive at like 40km/h you hear this tractor chugging right.... i then turn the car off at the ignition...... and keep rolling the chugging still occurs. (this is done obviosuly in a back street and yes everything locks up but becuase i am in a street with no cars this is fine) and this continues until the car comes to a complete stop, noise still occurs when the gear box is in free on this occassion. Now from my understanding when the engine is turned off the the timing chain wont be revolving and hence this noise cant be coming from the engine chain? I hope that makes sense.

Any thoughts??????

[buddah51au]

Driving with the engine off is not something I would recommend. That being said it obviously eliminates any engine problems, so from there u need to check the items that are still working.
Your driveshafts are still turning, so you could be looking at things like differential bearings, CV Joints, wheel bearings, suspension components - but I doubt they would give the noise you describe. I would be more inclined to look at differential bearings or perhaps a collapsed wheel bearing.

[aaronng]

Hey what i mean right is say you drive at like 40km/h you hear this tractor chugging right.... i then turn the car off at the ignition...... and keep rolling the chugging still occurs. (this is done obviosuly in a back street and yes everything locks up but becuase i am in a street with no cars this is fine) and this continues until the car comes to a complete stop, noise still occurs when the gear box is in free on this occassion. Now from my understanding when the engine is turned off the the timing chain wont be revolving and hence this noise cant be coming from the engine chain? I hope that makes sense.

So to confirm, your gearbox was in Neutral? If that is the case, you can double check by letting the engine run when the car is stationary in neutral. Listed for the sound and also give it a little throttle to hear if the noise occurs. This way you can isolate if it is the engine or the gearbox/drivetrain/hubs.

[aaronng]

damm...mine just sounds like a light tractor...or something....not quite diesel....LOL

Get your valve clearance checked.

[TRaNz]

crap....my car does not go up most honda dealer service areas...LOL....
so yeah how much to fly u down for a few hours? =D
jkz....ill have to do it after exams.

[Adrian Euro]

So to confirm, your gearbox was in Neutral? If that is the case, you can double check by letting the engine run when the car is stationary in neutral. Listed for the sound and also give it a little throttle to hear if the noise occurs. This way you can isolate if it is the engine or the gearbox/drivetrain/hubs.

Hi Aaronng,

Thanks for the reply,

In neutral the car doesn't make this noise if stationary but if in nuetral and rolling the chugging will occur. Excelerate in nuetral no noise.

Does this then eliminate the engine?

[buddah51au]

If you rev the engine while in neutral & there is no noise, you have eliminated the timing chain as being the problem

[aaronng]

Hi Aaronng,

Thanks for the reply,

In neutral the car doesn't make this noise if stationary but if in nuetral and rolling the chugging will occur. Excelerate in nuetral no noise.

Does this then eliminate the engine?
Sounds less likely to be the engine. I think it is caused by the hubs or CV joint or gearbox now.