Track Prep FN2R

[jyh888]

I have been inspired by many car fans and builds such as BYP civic, JDM yard civic, Js Racing DC5R etc to name a few which has motivated me to mod my fn2r that i have recently purchased. Hence I would like to share my experiences on my build on this forum.

Firstly, although the stock rims complement the looks of the car, it is ridiculously heavy – weighted at approximately 20kg including tyres per corner! The rims/tyres alone weigh approx 80kg all up! Despite the weight of the rims, the stock tyres (Bridgestone Potenza RE050A) offer extremely good grip for street tyres. To pursue my path of weight reduction, I have purchased a set of Rays CE28Ns in gloss black (17x7.5 +43 offset) with a set of Yokohama Advan A048 semi slicks (225/45/17) for track and a set of Bridgestone Potenza Adrenalins RE001 for the street.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9489/img8683v.jpg

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/1271/img8685.jpg

The ce28ns are impressively light-weight, approximately 5kg per corner! Which is a 5kg weight reduction from the stock rims which weight up approx 10kg each without tyres. From this I have already reduced 20kg all up of unsprung mass! To complement the rims I have also purchased a set of Rays Duralumin nuts  After driving the car, I could feel a day and night difference in driveability. The car requires less force and due to the less mass the car accelerates a lot faster, it seems like there is more available torque at every gear throughout the entire rev range. Furthermore, braking is also improved as it requires less braking force and due to the smaller diameter it absorbs shock slightly better. The semi slicks sound awesome! And they are effing grippy, it is almost impossible to lose traction driving these on the streets, the car feels like it is on rails and stick to the road like it should!

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5517/img8682.jpg

Secondly, I find that the stock intake system is very restrictive and after pulling it apart you will understand what I mean! It is massive and also weighs a fair bit...

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/8408/img8695t.jpg

http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/5210/img8693.jpg

Stock Intake System
http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/2420/img8704.jpg

Stock Air Box
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/5567/img8706a.jpg

Stock Resonator
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7193/img8707t.jpg

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5791/img8692a.jpg

I wanted a cold air intake to give me better gains and induction sound. After doing much research, I was tossing up against either the gruppeM vs Injen intake. Effectively the gruppeM intake is a short ram intake using a K&N pod filter with a large carbon fiber scoop, used to ram air into the filter – for the price of this intake ($1000+) i could not justify purchasing it, people had also questioned whether the ram/scoop effect was effective or not as the scoop lies under the bonnet and draws air from the grill however some argue that the radiator was in the way and would not allow efficient air flow. My second option was injen, this intake is a true cold air intake that draws fresh air from the left hand side near the foglight/wheel arch. In the end, I chose the injen intake because many dynos results showed similar results to the gruppeM and it cost less than half the price!

Injen have designed a revised intake for the fn2 which I believe gives better gains as they have enlarged the diameter of piping, filter and use a different mounting bracket. However, there were a few hiccups to installing this intake and I would like to give credit to the JDM yard crew who had spent a lot of time with me to ensure this intake fitted perfectly (pm me if you need details). I also bypassed the throttle body coolant line and as result the intake manifold is a lot cooler even after a hard drive, i can comfortably place my hands over the manifold whereas before it can get extremely hot especially due to our small engine bay. In conclusion, the injen intake delivers good gains throughout the rev range (dynos show a positive +6hp net gain) and is much more responsive with no flat spots at all. The foglight however seems to cover up the area of the filter, so i am looking into removing the foglight and making my own ram or scoop to deliver more direct air. Another alternative is to use the mugen air garnish but it does cost a small fortune...

Injen Cold Air Intake
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9639/img8710.jpg

Piping and hoses removed for tb coolant bypass
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4858/img8711d.jpg

Hopefully sometime I get the chance to track the car as is before I make further developments, next I will be looking further into upgrading suspension and brakes before I chase more power so stay tuned!

[Chriskoss]

Hahaha i live near you and drive by your house alot... and I drove by your house when I saw you doing this stuff to your FN2R (wont say where for security purposes)
car looks good mate! I like the white type r rims on the other fn2 you/your friend etc has aswell :D

P.S its chris.. jimmies old mate :D

[jyh888]

Sorry for the small pictures, I have resized and uploaded them. Haha thanks chris, glad to hear from u..just pop down next time if you drive by :)

[xntrik]

sick!! another tracker

[damienm]

before you hit the track remember to install an oil cooler and baffled sump just so you dont get oil starvation esp when youre running those semi slicks.

[br3nny]

g'day fellas..i had a similar dilemma

this is for an alternative to the mugen air intake garnish which wouldnt' put a dent in ur pocket or leave u starving for a month. initially i only had the holes drilled in each slot but thought that there wouldn't be enough space for the air to make it through so i decided to cut as far as i could

in doing so the sound that comes from it you can tell that there is ALOT more air getting to the intake now !!

i'm not sure about local dealers but you can source the foglight inserts from Civinfo. I got mine through Gordons Honda for £65 (this included shipping) but from what i remember he mentioned that the price had gone up since Dec 09. fyi its better just to order the pair for the extra £5

if you have a free day on the weekend just chop it up and cut out the solid honeycomb insert like so

http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad86/nerbalicious/intakegarnish1.jpg
you can see the injen cai's useless bracket hiding behind

http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad86/nerbalicious/intakegarnish.jpg
i also added flyscreen mesh behind to stop rocks and bugs from flying inside (held down around the edges by selleys clear silicon)

hope this helps

[jyh888]

before you hit the track remember to install an oil cooler and baffled sump just so you dont get oil starvation esp when youre running those semi slicks.

Thanks for the tips, already looking into them. Do the type r's already come with an oil cooler stock? If not which kit can I use for the fn2r? Another question is running 5W-30 viscosity engine oil fine for track?

[jyh888]

Thanks br3nny, that was a great post and good alternative to the mugen air garnish, ill try to source the inserts :) Do you ever get problems with rain going through the inserts? and can you show me a picture of the car in whole with the inserts? i.e. a full pic of the car, thanks.

[damienm]

im pretty sure they dont come with an oil cooler stock. Get an oil cooler off jdm yard along with the fittings n stuff and you can custom mount it yourself. Try go for a 10W-40 oil when youre tracking just for insurance as the 5W-30 is a bit thin

[jyh888]

im pretty sure they dont come with an oil cooler stock. Get an oil cooler off jdm yard along with the fittings n stuff and you can custom mount it yourself. Try go for a 10W-40 oil when youre tracking just for insurance as the 5W-30 is a bit thin

Thanks for the tips mate.

[lukits01]

oil pan is not necessary if you keep your oil levels in check
mines done 65000km with a lot of track abuse with semi slicks and its fine
the FN2 sump is much better designed than previous K20s
oil cooler also not necessary unless you are doing constant 20-30min stints of hard driving
K20 comes with with a basic integrated oil cooler as part of the radiator

[br3nny]

Thanks br3nny, that was a great post and good alternative to the mugen air garnish, ill try to source the inserts :) Do you ever get problems with rain going through the inserts? and can you show me a picture of the car in whole with the inserts? i.e. a full pic of the car, thanks.

hey no problem with rain, just get a hydroshield for the filter and you should be good, just remember that its NOTWATERPROOF best way to describe it is like water beads while its along it common sense just tells you to avoid puddles (which need to be around knee height to before you actually start sucking up water)

http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad86/nerbalicious/Injen-Hydroshield-PreFilters.jpg

and pictures as requested

http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad86/nerbalicious/ozhondapostintakefront1.jpg
http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad86/nerbalicious/ozhondapostintakefront2.jpg

[jyh888]

oil pan is not necessary if you keep your oil levels in check
mines done 65000km with a lot of track abuse with semi slicks and its fine
the FN2 sump is much better designed than previous K20s
oil cooler also not necessary unless you are doing constant 20-30min stints of hard driving
K20 comes with with a basic integrated oil cooler as part of the radiator

Thanks lukits, I would only be seeing track on a occassional basis so I doubt I would be doing constant hard drives. Btw you got pm

[jyh888]

Damn br3nny, your car looks agressive! Luckily we have trangular foglights lol if they were round it would look like we have empty holes! Looks very good though, ill do something similar :P
Btw what's n3rb mean?

[br3nny]

Damn br3nny, your car looks agressive! Luckily we have trangular foglights lol if they were round it would look like we have empty holes! Looks very good though, ill do something similar :P
Btw what's n3rb mean?

cheers buddy,everyone asks hahah its bren backwards...its a good way to kill 1/2 a day on the weekend, just have a drill .... sharp stanley and a small smooth file and some selley's all clear silicon (i find this one works best when theres water involved) handy

let us know how you go !

[EG5]

Keep up the good work

[jyh888]

Keep up the good work

Couldn't have done it without your help! Thanks again

[br3nny]

any future plans ??

[jyh888]

Thanks to all those who helped me with answering my questions regarding track preparation. I finally had the opportunity to track the car today at wakefield park open day, there wern't too many cars which meant I had more sessions and less presure from faster cars.

This is my first manual car and first track day, so i thought I would share my experiences and would be great to see any suggestions that would help me go faster! Being the first time on track, I was not very confident about the car at all as I have never pushed the car to its limits however slowly i gained confidence throughout the day.

The car is stock except for an injen CAI and I was running street tyres 225/45/17 on my 17x7.5inch CE28Ns. I felt that the car is overall very responsive especially during cornering however loses traction at front wheels very easily and understeers quite a fair bit. Running a torsion beam rear allows the rear to sit very flat through the corner, making it quite hard to get oversteer.
I tried to combat these problems by braking hard to shift weight to the front wheels, so the rear would lift up a bit and gain traction at the front --> this resulted in a little bit less understeer but a huge sacrifice in time. The brakes on this car are ridiculously shit and I really mean that, for a 1300kg car I think honda could have done better, but i guess we can only improve to make things better. The stock brakes absolutely gives you no confidence in braking, hence holding me back to go any faster. At the end of the day, my brakes are very spongy and don't feel that they could last much longer. So I have already ordered some Ferodo DS2500 brake pads, Goodridge stainless brake lines and will bleed and flush fluid with better brake fluid (thanks to JDMyard for sourcing this for me) which I will test out next track day (who knows when at this stage).

The car has very little corner exit grip most likely due to the lack of an LSD. Furthermore, the car does roll quite a fair bit during the tighter turns, my question is will a stock lsd from a dc5r or k20 gearbox be much of an improvement? Or should I be looking into aftermarket LSD's? And what the advantages/disadvantages of clutch type vs helical? And can anyone recommend coilovers for the fn2r for proven performance?

Overall my best lap time for the day would be in the 1.20s using my friend's lap timer, I think I can improve on this. Overall, it was a great day and great fun - i recommend everyone to go out there and try for yourself, you will learn more about your car after each lap and each session, definately will not dissapoint. Although I did witness a few unsightful events as my mates sti caught on fire and another sti with a blown head gasket :(

PS it was also very important to note that playing around with the tyre pressures made a huge difference in handling. At cold, they were set up to 33(front) and 36(rear). After a few hot laps, they rose to about 38(front) and almost 40(rear). I thought the pressure at 38psi the fronts were too high and so i reduced to 36psi and left the rears as is and i noticed much more grip at the front wheels. Another question -> whats optimal tyre size for a 7.5inch rim on track? Should i try 215 width tyres?

[SpoonS]

Glad you had a good first experience on the track. It'll only make you want to go more now :)


whats optimal tyre size for a 7.5inch rim on track? Should i try 215 width tyres?

I think (correct me if i'm wrong) it's 225 for a 7.5 rim.

[aaronng]

The car has very little corner exit grip most likely due to the lack of an LSD. Furthermore, the car does roll quite a fair bit during the tighter turns, my question is will a stock lsd from a dc5r or k20 gearbox be much of an improvement? Or should I be looking into aftermarket LSD's? And what the advantages/disadvantages of clutch type vs helical? And can anyone recommend coilovers for the fn2r for proven performance?
Clutch type work even if one tyre totally loses traction but is noisy, requires special transmission fluid and the clutch components have to be replaced every few years. Helical is quiet, works with standard transmission fluid, is maintenance free and doesn't wear out unless abused. Either way, LSD is a big advantage on the track.



Overall my best lap time for the day would be in the 1.20s using my friend's lap timer, I think I can improve on this. Overall, it was a great day and great fun - i recommend everyone to go out there and try for yourself, you will learn more about your car after each lap and each session, definately will not dissapoint. Although I did witness a few unsightful events as my mates sti caught on fire and another sti with a blown head gasket :(

Congrats. Going on track is fun and shows all the flaws in the car's set up. Did your mate run continuous hot laps and did not cool down? Or did he just have an oil leak which caught fire?

[lukits01]

The car has very little corner exit grip most likely due to the lack of an LSD. Furthermore, the car does roll quite a fair bit during the tighter turns, my question is will a stock lsd from a dc5r or k20 gearbox be much of an improvement? Or should I be looking into aftermarket LSD's? And what the advantages/disadvantages of clutch type vs helical? And can anyone recommend coilovers for the fn2r for proven performance?


annoying aint it? hehe :p
LSD choice comes down to budget really, you are already paying a small fortune for labor
so OEM torsen diffs are cheap and cheerful, aftermarket can be double the cost and plate types even more. Some kind of LSD is a huge improvement over none, and plate type another step up, obviously with the sacrifices in maintainability.

Look into AST and KW suspension for coilovers

[jyh888]

annoying aint it? hehe :p
LSD choice comes down to budget really, you are already paying a small fortune for labor
so OEM torsen diffs are cheap and cheerful, aftermarket can be double the cost and plate types even more. Some kind of LSD is a huge improvement over none, and plate type another step up, obviously with the sacrifices in maintainability.

Look into AST and KW suspension for coilovers

Extremely annoying...I think you would know exactly what i meant haha.
Since I won't be seeing track that often, maybe only a few times per year, I would prefer a helical type lsd and will most likely go for an oem k20 lsd since i can source them around the $500 mark.

From your experience, did changing suspension improve your lap times on your car? Why did you choose KW over other brands available? I don't much about KW, so please fill me in!
What are the spring rates on KW coilovers? And are they idependently height adjustable to spring preload? I also noticed that there are 3 variants available, what is best suited for daily driving and some track/circuit work?

[br3nny]

The brakes on this car are ridiculously shit and I really mean that, for a 1300kg car I think honda could have done better, but i guess we can only improve to make things better. The stock brakes absolutely gives you no confidence in braking, hence holding me back to go any faster. At the end of the day, my brakes are very spongy and don't feel that they could last much longer.

1100000% AGREE, very very shit indeed....you can't get any good feeling or confidence knowing your going to slow down enough !!!


The car has very little corner exit grip most likely due to the lack of an LSD

AGREE

[jyh888]

1100000% AGREE, very very shit indeed....you can't get any good feeling or confidence knowing your going to slow down enough !!!



AGREE

Hahaha im glad you feel the same way, they are already shit enough for what they are on the street...you could only imagine what it is like on track.........

[Menzy]

I can agree a million % with you regarding the LSD.

Having owned an 07 FN2R to now driving a 10 FN2R, I can definitely say it makes huge improvements.
Before I'd feel car the car not turning and having less grip means loosing traction, however now the car just grips crazy.

Out of curiosity which LSD does the 10 FN2R use?

[lukits01]

Extremely annoying...I think you would know exactly what i meant haha.
Since I won't be seeing track that often, maybe only a few times per year, I would prefer a helical type lsd and will most likely go for an oem k20 lsd since i can source them around the $500 mark.

From your experience, did changing suspension improve your lap times on your car? Why did you choose KW over other brands available? I don't much about KW, so please fill me in!
What are the spring rates on KW coilovers? And are they idependently height adjustable to spring preload? I also noticed that there are 3 variants available, what is best suited for daily driving and some track/circuit work?

haha was no brainer really... I wouldn't touch Japanese suspension with a 10-foot pole
and these guys were the first to come out with coilovers for the FN2, so... there were no other brands available! lol

V1 is only height adjustable, V2 adds rebound adjustment, V3 adds bump adjustment
the valving is all very similar, only a matter of how much time will you spend tweaking the settings.
springs are progressive, so there's no linear spring rates per say.
also no separate height adjustment to spring pre-load. KW products are made to be sold in Germany, they have to past very strict TUV test to be deemed road worthy.
i.e. they aren't allowed to be too low otherwise some German bureaucrat (the most anal of bureaucrats) will fail the certification.
I guess that should mean something, that they are certified for road use in Germany and not "For Race Use Only"
could always just read the promo material: http://www.kw-suspension.com/us/kw_valve_technology.php

the only other alternative I would consider (at least until Ohlins get around to making their kit) is AST: http://www.ast-suspension.com/sportline2.asp?make=Honda
but there's very little info on them at the moment. Of course these suspension upgrades will improve lap times, but they are redundant without a good LSD.

[moo moo nel]

I had KW V2 in my Golf GTI (3yrs ago)
They are too hardcore and I don't recommend them to you...unless you bringing a mechanic with you to track
try adjust the rear damping you will know why

and how come you set the rear tyre pressure higher than the front?

[jyh888]

Congrats. Going on track is fun and shows all the flaws in the car's set up. Did your mate run continuous hot laps and did not cool down? Or did he just have an oil leak which caught fire?

Aaron, yeah unfortunately my mates sti had an oil leak which dripped onto his exhaust manifold and sparked up a fire. The dangers of motorsport :(

[jyh888]

I can agree a million % with you regarding the LSD.

Having owned an 07 FN2R to now driving a 10 FN2R, I can definitely say it makes huge improvements.
Before I'd feel car the car not turning and having less grip means loosing traction, however now the car just grips crazy.

Out of curiosity which LSD does the 10 FN2R use?

menzy, have u tracked ur car at Wakefield? I'm curious to know other peoples lap times with and without LSD. Can u actually feel the improvement on the street? I didn't think you could as I hardly ever break traction with the already grippy street tyres. The LSD would be the oem LSD used in all k20 gearboxes

[fish]

normal driving you will not feel any difference from having LSD
but when you stomp on the gas at a corner's apex you will definately feel the LSD doing its work
even on a normal right hand turn i can punch the accel in 2nd turning at 50 with no loss of traction with lsd :)
but turn off VSA, the car feels weird with VSA active and using LSD lol steering is wobbly...

[Menzy]

I haven't tracked the car yet... want to break in some more ks before I even think about it.
When you say the the oem LSD, which is what? I have no idea

[jyh888]

It's a Honda oem helical type LSD which are found in k20a gearboxes such as the dc5r,ep3r and cl7

[lukits01]

I had KW V2 in my Golf GTI (3yrs ago)
They are too hardcore and I don't recommend them to you...unless you bringing a mechanic with you to track
try adjust the rear damping you will know why


curious to know what you mean by that... I've adjusted my rear damping and still don't know why haha

[CB7_OWNER]

^ different car, different application, different style of adjusting dampening? im assuming its alot harder to adjust the dampening on the gti

[moo moo nel]

for GTI if you want to adjust the rear damping, you have to take the whole rear shock off and then press it and twist
how about FN2?

[lukits01]

for GTI if you want to adjust the rear damping, you have to take the whole rear shock off and then press it and twist
how about FN2?

ahh, nothing like that, just allen keys on the top and bottom of the shocks.

[jyh888]

haha was no brainer really... I wouldn't touch Japanese suspension with a 10-foot pole
and these guys were the first to come out with coilovers for the FN2, so... there were no other brands available! lol

V1 is only height adjustable, V2 adds rebound adjustment, V3 adds bump adjustment
the valving is all very similar, only a matter of how much time will you spend tweaking the settings.
springs are progressive, so there's no linear spring rates per say.
also no separate height adjustment to spring pre-load. KW products are made to be sold in Germany, they have to past very strict TUV test to be deemed road worthy.
i.e. they aren't allowed to be too low otherwise some German bureaucrat (the most anal of bureaucrats) will fail the certification.
I guess that should mean something, that they are certified for road use in Germany and not "For Race Use Only"
could always just read the promo material: http://www.kw-suspension.com/us/kw_valve_technology.php

the only other alternative I would consider (at least until Ohlins get around to making their kit) is AST: http://www.ast-suspension.com/sportline2.asp?make=Honda
but there's very little info on them at the moment. Of course these suspension upgrades will improve lap times, but they are redundant without a good LSD.

Hey lukits, you seem to be against japanese made coilovers, any reason(s) behind your mindset?
What is the difference between rebound and bump adjustment?
Are there any advantages for progressive spring rates compared to fixed spring rates? What is the best way to reduce roll resistance? I noticed you installed a rear sway bar, how does help to the fn2r as I feel that the rear stays pretty flat through corners in stock setup.

[curtis265]

Funny you mention that about the brakes, they certainly don't look the part.

Where's our OEM brembos!!

[lukits01]

Hey lukits, you seem to be against japanese made coilovers, any reason(s) behind your mindset?
What is the difference between rebound and bump adjustment?
Are there any advantages for progressive spring rates compared to fixed spring rates? What is the best way to reduce roll resistance? I noticed you installed a rear sway bar, how does help to the fn2r as I feel that the rear stays pretty flat through corners in stock setup.

mmm nothing technical really, just never seen one that I've been impressed with, seen a few too, HKS/Buddyclub/GReddy/Spoon/Toda/Cusco they've all been pretty rubbish with their setup.
A few of the top of the range Tein was alright, but still nowhere close to the range of capabilities of the European offerings.
In general, silly spring rates and overdamped to compensate for silly spring rates.
So what you get is a car that can't handle bumps and just too stiff to allow any kind of weight transfer.

theoretically progressive spring rates gives more comfortable ride but sacrificing response, they need the shocks to be valved to suit. So you shouldn't change springs with shock absorbers valved for progressive spring rates. Progressive springs are best for road use, a GOOD (e.g. hypercoil/swift/eibach) linear spring for performance use.

Have a read at this website: http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html

also theoretically a slightly over-steering car is always the faster car, the stiffer rear swaybar is there to help lift the inside rear wheel, transferring the weight to the other 3 wheels.

[jyh888]

mmm nothing technical really, just never seen one that I've been impressed with, seen a few too, HKS/Buddyclub/GReddy/Spoon/Toda they've all been pretty rubbish with their setup.
A few of the top of the range Tein was alright, but still nowhere close to the range of capabilities of the European offerings.
In general, silly spring rates and overdamped to compensate for silly spring rates.
So what you get is a car that can't handle bumps and just too stiff to allow any kind of weight transfer.

theoretically progressive spring rates gives more comfortable ride but sacrificing response, they need the shocks to be valved to suit. So you shouldn't change springs with shock absorbers valved for progressive spring rates. Progressive springs are best for road use, a GOOD (e.g. hypercoil/swift/eibach) linear spring for performance use.

Have a read at this website: http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html

also theoretically a slightly over-steering car is always the faster car, the stiffer rear swaybar is there to help lift the inside rear wheel, transferring the weight to the other 3 wheels.

Thanks lukits, that information helps me to understand alot more. So you would say the KW coilovers are a very good balance for both street comfort and track performance? If you don't mind, where did you source them and how much? Do whiteline/selby still offer that sway bar to the public?? I can't seem to grab hold of one. And regarding your brake setup, is it still possible to run DC5/EP3/FN2 rotors without using S2000 rotors to fit the brembos?

I hoping to see track again in September/August so first things on my mind are upgrade the braking system, suspension and drivetrain before i chase any more power. I hope this thread inspires a few more fn2rs to see the track ;)

[jyh888]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/4751640386_c359d4d2d7_b.jpg

At track :)

[lukits01]

Thanks lukits, that information helps me to understand alot more. So you would say the KW coilovers are a very good balance for both street comfort and track performance? If you don't mind, where did you source them and how much? Do whiteline/selby still offer that sway bar to the public?? I can't seem to grab hold of one. And regarding your brake setup, is it still possible to run DC5/EP3/FN2 rotors without using S2000 rotors to fit the brembos?

I hoping to see track again in September/August so first things on my mind are upgrade the braking system, suspension and drivetrain before i chase any more power. I hope this thread inspires a few more fn2rs to see the track ;)
good choice, power is wasted on the track without LSD, just spins the inside wheel all the time.
why not email whiteline themselves about the swaybars? I was pointed to selby's by whiteline when I inquired about making custom swaybars.

It is a lot more work to get stock rotors to work with the brembos, change wheel bearings, extended studs, custom 7.5mm spacers behind the rotor and after all that you might still need spacers for your wheels and it wont be hubcentric anymore since the hub spigot will sink into the rotors. I don't recommend it, if you must go to DC5R brembos, use S2000 rotors, and nice ones at that.
but its quite overkill for the casual track car, nothing a good choice of pads and fluids cant do.

I would say the KW is a great for street/track use, with primarily street use. In hindsight, I would've liked coilovers valved for linear springs, but the KWs has never given me a reason to complain.
having said that though, I've heard of 1-2 cases of V2s leaking and replaced under warranty, so they aren't without the odd faulty batch. I think the distributor is Inmotive motorsport or something like that, I just went from the KW website and they listed the Australian dealer.

[jyh888]

More Track Photos ~

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/4057/mg1349.jpg

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/4460/mg1348.jpg

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/421/mg1092.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9016/mg1089t.jpg

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/3353/mg0799.jpg

Waiting on my brake setup to be installed before i hit track again...

[br3nny]

nice pics !!

[jyh888]

UPDATE : ~

I'll be seeing the track next month so I have had a new brake setup, as you would have read in my earlier reflection at track with the stock brakes they were very poor in terms of braking performance and feel. Now im running:

Dixcel Type HS Slotted & Heat Treated Rotors and
Endless MX72 brake pads (these are the same parts as DC5R/EP3R)
I have left the rear brakes completely stock, as most of the braking effort is required at the front

http://a.imageshack.us/img130/571/img8927nw.jpg

After the initial break in period, they feel completely different and much more responsive! Braking effort seems to be reduced quite a considerable amount, I have yet to test these at track but so far so good = ) Currently i am still using the OEM honda brake fluid, before track i will change to braided lines with Motul RBF600 Dot 4 brake fluid

I have also installed a Defi Racer 52mm Oil Temp Gauge wired to the dash

http://a.imageshack.us/img267/1165/img8938v.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img693/9378/img8947z.jpg

Changed the OEM round gearknob to a Mugen 6speed gearknob and it is hell lot easier to shift as I find the round one too small, the mugen gearknob is also slightly heavier, making shifts feel firmer and confident and best of all it removed the notchy feeling

http://a.imageshack.us/img714/3620/img8937r.jpg

As we speak, I am having a Honda OEM Helical LSD taken from a CL7 Euro R fitted into my gearbox with an Exedy Sports Organic Clutch & 3.8kg Lightened Flywheel.
Once its all in, I will report back on how they perform. Any FN2R's in sydney want to join me in track next month??

[Menzy]

Hey mate, in changing your break setup, have you noticed "less" dust on the wheels...

[jyh888]

Hey mate, in changing your break setup, have you noticed "less" dust on the wheels...

Hardly any brake dust on the front but still heaps on the rear

[Smoothaz]

oh man, i got parts sitting here and no time to install them. Hopefully i can get the KWv2 installed today. When is track day?

[jyh888]

oh man, i got parts sitting here and no time to install them. Hopefully i can get the KWv2 installed today. When is track day?

Let me know how those coilovers are once you got them in, im really interested in a new suspension setup.
What are the main differences between the v2 and v3? How much do they cost landed in Aust?
Haven't decided which day but will be around mid-end sept and looking to go in on an open day to get more time & practice

[jyh888]

Pics are updated on page 4

New clutch & flywheel and LSD are installed and damn it is amazing - with compliments to Adrian from Toda for doing such a great job all in less than half a day

http://a.imageshack.us/img101/794/img8948v.jpg

The exedy sports organic clutch grabs & bites hard which a much better pedal feel, friction point is overall the same probably slightly lower but pedal is a lot stiffer and stronger compared
to the stock one which feels very soft & weak.

Furthermore, depsite that we already have a lightened flywheel of 4.8kg, i thought i might as well change everything since the gearbox is coming out I fitted the clutch with an exedy 3.8kg flywheel.
Together as a combo, this is one of the best modification I have done to a car, the engine revs so smoothly and swiftly and feels like the car accelerates a lot faster.
I guess less power is lost through the transmission as a result of weight reduction. Definately a worthwhile investment!

As mentioned previously, I sourced a torsen type helical LSD from a CL7 Euro R, which i believe would be the same part on DC5R/EP3R and fitted it into my gearbox.
During normal driving, it acts like an open diff and being a gear type LSD its silent and doesn't chatter. So far, having driven it on the street only I am already very impressed with the improvement
of an LSD, when cornering the nose tucks in and just keeps turning without any sign of understeering! I obviously haven't pushed it anywhere to its limit on the street so I am highly anticipating to try this
at track! Research shows almost a 2second improvement over the 2007 vs 2010 FN2R at track. Due to the fact that the FN2R uses electric power steering, after installing the LSD, the steering wheel does feel a littler more heavier when taking corners at slower speeds and seems to pull your steering wheel.

http://a.imageshack.us/img64/4227/img8675h.jpg

[Smoothaz]

Got my KW installed yesterday and the results are amazing. Its significantly smoother and has less body roll. I havent done proper tests with it yet but it feels so much nicer to drive.
Still need to adjust the height as it is too low and rubbing on hard turns. If you ever install these yourself, make sure you remove the oem bump stops on the front top mounts. I learnt it
the hard way and had to remove the front coilovers again. Take extreme care when removing the 3 nuts and holds the top mount, once you drop the nut its gone.
How much did it cost to put the LSD in? Im still deciding if i should DIY or just take it to a mech. The KW costed me about $1850 landed and the difference in the models
you can read here http://inmotive.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16&Itemid=28
All i need to do now is install the quaife, pads and fluids.

[jyh888]

That's awesome another fn2r set up for track! Are you located within Sydney?
I hope you could join in me track. Labour to install LSD, clutch and flywheel was approximately $700-800
if your confident do it yourself otherwise just pay a mechanic for peace of mind, insure you don't want
your gearbox failing on you. Not changing clutch/flywheel while your at it?

I hear that the quaiffe LSD Is pretty good, similar to Honda but with a more
aggressive torque bias ratio. How much did that cost you?

Care to share which brake pads you are gonna run?
Have you been to wakefield before with the type r?

[Drew]

I fail to see how this is track prep without even so much as a roll cage?

[Smoothaz]

Basically, it's a road car with mods to assist when on the track. It's not a full time track car so
a roll cage is not neccessary.

[Smoothaz]

That's awesome another fn2r set up for track! Are you located within Sydney?
I hope you could join in me track. Labour to install LSD, clutch and flywheel was approximately $700-800
if your confident do it yourself otherwise just pay a mechanic for peace of mind, insure you don't want
your gearbox failing on you. Not changing clutch/flywheel while your at it?

I hear that the quaiffe LSD Is pretty good, similar to Honda but with a more
aggressive torque bias ratio. How much did that cost you?

Care to share which brake pads you are gonna run?
Have you been to wakefield before with the type r?The quaife costs just under 1k landed from CPL Racing UK. I'm still deciding if I should get new clutch and flywheel or an exhaust system. I'm using endless type r pads for the front and ebc red stuff for the rear. I took it to wakefield last year and did a 1.17 which is not bad for a first timer. Hopefully I can do better with all these mods, aiming for 1.14 this time.

[jyh888]

I fail to see how this is track prep without even so much as a roll cage?

That's funny...I didn't know you must have a rollcage to track your car...
The car is already pretty stiff in terms of chassis rigidity

[jyh888]

The quaife costs just under 1k landed from CPL Racing UK. I'm still deciding if I should get new clutch and flywheel or an exhaust system. I'm using endless type r pads for the front and ebc red stuff for the rear. I took it to wakefield last year and did a 1.17 which is not bad for a first timer. Hopefully I can do better with all these mods, aiming for 1.14 this time.

Exhaust won't really help you improving lap times, get a heavy duty clutch combo with a lighter flywheel, u will notice a bigger difference!
Are you using stock brake lines or aftermarket lines?

1.17 is very impressive, was this with stock car? My first time was only 1.23

1.14 will definately be achievable. Really interested in how the KW coilovers & quaiffe LSD perform on track.

[aaronng]

1.17 is very impressive, was this with stock car? My first time was only 1.23

1.14 will definately be achievable. Really interested in how the KW coilovers & quaiffe LSD perform on track.
With the FN2R, you will be able to get much lower than 1:17 after your 2nd outing at Wakefield. The LSD will cut down the time a bit more because you will be able to power out of the fish hook corner at full throttle.

[jyh888]

With the FN2R, you will be able to get much lower than 1:17 after your 2nd outing at Wakefield. The LSD will cut down the time a bit more because you will be able to power out of the fish hook corner at full throttle.

I hope that will be the case! First time the car was understeering so much that the wheels were spinning and losing traction.
How do you usually approach the second corner after the first kink? More specifically, what speed do you usually enter? I think i may be taking the corner too fast...last time i remembered i was entering
almost near 100km/h

[sitta]

second corner in wakefield i usually take it at about 100km/hr as well in my FN2R. I cut quite alot of the corner. For me personally i dont like to hit the apex of the first corner, i take the line on the left hand side of the track on the first corner and carry the speed into the second corner. 1:17 is not bad at all. I think the limit for Stock fn2 R is about 1:15 although my best time is in the low 1:16 :(. I think with your mods and more experience you will get in the 1:14s

[jyh888]

second corner in wakefield i usually take it at about 100km/hr as well in my FN2R. I cut quite alot of the corner. For me personally i dont like to hit the apex of the first corner, i take the line on the left hand side of the track on the first corner and carry the speed into the second corner. 1:17 is not bad at all. I think the limit for Stock fn2 R is about 1:15 although my best time is in the low 1:16 :(. I think with your mods and more experience you will get in the 1:14s

Very impressive :) I'll aim to get into 1.16s first and then work from there!
Btw, now that I have the LSD installed, im assuming VSA will work in conjuction with no conflicts? Do you guys usually turn VSA off at track or leave it on?
Any advantages/disadvantages to leaving it on?

[damienm]

turn vsa off when youre on the track, im sure with the A048s and lsd you can achieve 1.12s on your second go at wakefield. Ill try come with you next time so you can follow me i did 1.10.3 third time i was there with a 96 spec b18cr (gearing is so sh1t for wakefield)

[jyh888]

turn vsa off when youre on the track, im sure with the A048s and lsd you can achieve 1.12s on your second go at wakefield. Ill try come with you next time so you can follow me i did 1.10.3 third time i was there with a 96 spec b18cr (gearing is so sh1t for wakefield)

Wow your very optimistic! Yea i definately need someone to follow as the first time I didnt follow anyone (my mates STi was too quick and ended up alone) and my lines were all messy.
Im aiming to attend either 26th or 31st Open day at WP this month, see if you can make it!

[sitta]

lol. followed sti before, i ended up spinning out

[aaronng]

I hope that will be the case! First time the car was understeering so much that the wheels were spinning and losing traction.
How do you usually approach the second corner after the first kink? More specifically, what speed do you usually enter? I think i may be taking the corner too fast...last time i remembered i was entering
almost near 100km/h

It depends on your setup. With semi slicks and a light car, you can do 100km/h easy by cutting the apex. If you have street tyres and a heavy car, then you might find that your car understeers just because the tyres don't have enough grip to change the direction of momentum. There are ways to get around it though even with street tyres by sacrificing speed at the first kink so that you line up the car to take the 2nd corner in the straightest line possible (and clip the apex).

[aaronng]

Very impressive :) I'll aim to get into 1.16s first and then work from there!
Btw, now that I have the LSD installed, im assuming VSA will work in conjuction with no conflicts? Do you guys usually turn VSA off at track or leave it on?
Any advantages/disadvantages to leaving it on?

I turn it off because it lets me control under/oversteer using the throttle. With VSA on, it sometimes tries to brake the inner wheel when I least expect it to reduce understeer, causing the car to slightly cut in quicker. If you practice with VSA on and can anticipate when it will kick in, then nothing wrong with leaving it on.

[jyh888]

Was wondering if anyone knows whether the eibach camber bolts are similar to the ingalls one?

Im going to track soon so Im looking into adjusting my wheel alignments, where would I be able to source some camber bolts?

And is it necessary to get hubrings? I was told that if you run aftermarket rims, it doesnt sit flush with your hub and puts alot of stress on the nuts. By any chance does anyone know our hub bore size OD and ID of the rims? (CE28N).

Lukits01, if you see this i hope you can help, trying to pm you but your inbox is full!

thanks

[moo moo nel]

73mm > 64mm hub rings
should have asked the tyre shop to give them to you for free when you got the semis fitted

[jyh888]

73mm > 64mm hub rings
should have asked the tyre shop to give them to you for free when you got the semis fitted

ahh ok thanks mate, appreciate your help. So these should fit? - http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Hub-Centric-Rings-OD-73-1mm-ID-64-1mm-Honda-Landrover-/170529098675?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories
Do most tyre shops sell these and how much do they usually cost?

[moo moo nel]

check PM

[jyh888]

check PM

Your inbox is full so couldnt reply, but thanks for your help, it is greatly appreciated! = )

[lukits01]

hub rings are nice things to have in the long run.
running without them can cause extra stress on hub bearings and wheel studs
I found they got rid of some vibrations I was having under hard braking.

[jyh888]

hub rings are nice things to have in the long run.
running without them can cause extra stress on hub bearings and wheel studs
I found they got rid of some vibrations I was having under hard braking.

I just ordered some kics metal hub rings :)
btw I wanted to ask you about the camber bolts, Would you know if there is any difference between the ingalls ones and eibach?
And where is the best place to order them? I'm looking to set up my wheel alignments...

[lukits01]

I just ordered some kics metal hub rings :)
btw I wanted to ask you about the camber bolts, Would you know if there is any difference between the ingalls ones and eibach?
And where is the best place to order them? I'm looking to set up my wheel alignments...

no idea between the brands, don't think it matters as long as its the 16mm version for honda mcpherson struts.
I just got mine from whiteline, $70 I think

[jyh888]

no idea between the brands, don't think it matters as long as its the 16mm version for honda mcpherson struts.
I just got mine from whiteline, $70 I think

I noticed on your thread you used ingalls camber bolts, couldnt find them on whiteline but i found this instead http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail.php?part_number=KCA416&page=1
Is that the one you are talking about?? Seems to only allow adjustment of up to + - 1.75 degrees camber, any possibility of running a more aggressive alignment?

[lukits01]

ohh nah, those ingalls didn't fit, they were 14mm.
think the whiteline link is the one I have.
you'll be lucky to get 1.75 with bolts alone, mate.

[jyh888]

ohh nah, those ingalls didn't fit, they were 14mm.
think the whiteline link is the one I have.
you'll be lucky to get 1.75 with bolts alone, mate.

Oh ok, how did you end up getting your desired alignment? Do your coilovers allow for camber adjustment?

[cjcha4]

I only managed to get max 1.2degrees with camber bolts after a wheel alignment.

[jyh888]

I only managed to get max 1.2degrees with camber bolts after a wheel alignment.

Oh ok, at least its better than having nothing. Which camber bolts were you using? Is there any camber kit available for FN2R? Need more adjustability...
Im hoping to achieve -2 degrees camber...

[lukits01]

Do your coilovers allow for camber adjustment?

yup, another 1 degree or so

[jyh888]

yup, another 1 degree or so

Will coilovers still work in conjuction with the camber bolts?
And do i need 2 pairs of bolts?? i.e. 2 sets

[cjcha4]

Got whiteline camber bolts, waiting for my set of coilovers get it to about 2degrees. Id suggest getting your rear alignment checked and adjusted with shims, which I plan to get done as well

only issue now is the wheels look sunk into the arches from the front, so means getting some new wheels with diff offset.

[jyh888]

Got whiteline camber bolts, waiting for my set of coilovers get it to about 2degrees. Id suggest getting your rear alignment checked and adjusted with shims, which I plan to get done as well

only issue now is the wheels look sunk into the arches from the front, so means getting some new wheels with diff offset.

Im looking at ingalls camber bolts 16mm, was told that if i got 2 sets i can achieve -2degrees. What coilovers are you looking into?

[cjcha4]

ordered a set of BC racing, looked at other brands but couldnt afford the prices

[lukits01]

Will coilovers still work in conjuction with the camber bolts?
And do i need 2 pairs of bolts?? i.e. 2 sets

depends if they adjust camber with camber tops (in which case 2 pair of bolts will work)
or if they adjust with offset bolt holes (in which case only 1 pair will work)

[jyh888]

depends if they adjust camber with camber tops (in which case 2 pair of bolts will work)
or if they adjust with offset bolt holes (in which case only 1 pair will work)

I bought 2 sets of these: http://www.ingallseng.com/81280-16mm-fastcam-bolts_pair.html

It says to purchase 1 set per wheel, so I assumed I needed both. And hopefully I can achieve -2degrees camber with it

[jyh888]

Good news! The ingalls camber bolts that I ordered have allowed me to achieve -2.07 degrees camber, if you are using 2 sets of bolts maximum camber achievable can be + - 4 degrees.
So i will try this setup for now and if later i need a more agressive alignment it can be possible. Toe settings are + 0.2mm each corner on the front and Caster approx + 4 degrees.

This alignment hopefully will give me less understeer and better turn in around corners

Done my oil change using Motul x-cess 8100 5W40 and brake fluid flush and change with Motul RBF600. After changing the brake fluid, the brake pedal is very sensitive now, a lot better than before! I should have much more confidence in the car now, will be off to track next thursday! All set to go, at the moment still need to get my semi slicks mounted onto the wheels

The rear however, being a torsion beam setup I have no adjustability of the alignments but my readout for the standard setup shows:
-1.22 degree camber on the left and -0.52 on the right so overall approx -1degree and toe is little inconsistent with +0.6mm on the left and +3.2mm on the right

[cjcha4]

Your rear data is nearly the same as mine with the camber L~ -1.18 R~ -0.53

[Smoothaz]

Good luck at the tracks. I was planning to go with you but my car is not ready yet and won't be for a while. Maybe next time. Hope you hit your target lap time.

[jyh888]

Good luck at the tracks. I was planning to go with you but my car is not ready yet and won't be for a while. Maybe next time. Hope you hit your target lap time.

Don't worry there's always next time! How's the suspension coming along? What's happening to your car?

[jyh888]

Your rear data is nearly the same as mine with the camber L~ -1.18 R~ -0.53

Yea that is very similar, i think that's how they come as standard. Do you know what your rear toe settings are?

[cjcha4]

Toe L~ +2.1 R~ -0.5, gotta get another alignment check before I send the data off to the UK for an alignment kit.

[Smoothaz]

Don't worry there's always next time! How's the suspension coming along? What's happening to your car?

My sussy is great!! soooo comfortable and the sharp turn-ins are awesome. The car is so responsive now and so fun to drive. i still got heaps to do to my car. LSD, rear shims and alignment, headers and exhaust, RRC inlet manifold and gasket, larger TB and a good tune. lol sounds like im getting ready for a 1/4 mile.

[jyh888]

My sussy is great!! soooo comfortable and the sharp turn-ins are awesome. The car is so responsive now and so fun to drive. i still got heaps to do to my car. LSD, rear shims and alignment, headers and exhaust, RRC inlet manifold and gasket, larger TB and a good tune. lol sounds like im getting ready for a 1/4 mile.

Those coilovers sound very convincing! Hope i get a ride in it sometime! I think you should install the LSD before you chase any more power, it is definately a huge improvement and I have yet to test it at the track but I personally believe that the extra power will be wasted unless the car is able to transfer it without breaking traction too easily which was the case when I first tracked the car.
Nevertheless, I hope to see a good build from you :) Please keep the updates coming!

[jyh888]

Update - Wakefield Park Open Day 2nd Sept

As most of you are aware yesterday was pouring rain! The track was very wet and slippery, so the first few sessions were suicide! I was running semi slicks and you can imagine what happened right?!
It wasn't until the last 2 sessions where the track was starting to dry up, once it did I was able to push the car to a higher limit, all I have to say now is the car has so much grip! With the LSD and semi-slicks the car understeers so little and grips all the way through the corners when you push the throttle! The endless MX72's are awesome! For normal street driving you can't feel such a big difference but on the track, it is unbelievable, the brakes are very consistenly without the need for ABS to kick in.

At the end of the day my PB is 1.18.4, my aim was 1.15 and I know i can definately improve on that - the track was not 100% dry so I was hesitating to push the car harder however from an improvisation view, I shaved off 5 seconds compared to my last PB time. I still need more practice, especially approaching the last corner which is where I particularly lose a lot of time. Hopefully, I can find a nice dry day seeing that spring is here and practise a littler bit more before I do anything else to the car.

Question - my mates STi recently bought new DBA4000 rotors and he is getting brake shudder after the track day, could they possibly be warped?? How can you tell and is it advisable to get them machined or will it affect the heat treatment on the rotor?

Pictures of the day:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs293.snc4/40981_10150264054115319_532720318_14757473_5000321 _n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs313.snc4/40981_10150264054120319_532720318_14757474_3967540 _n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs153.ash2/40981_10150264054150319_532720318_14757480_242665_ n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs313.snc4/40981_10150264054165319_532720318_14757482_1322002 _n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs602.snc4/58197_10150264054445319_532720318_14757483_1898056 _n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs602.snc4/58197_10150264054450319_532720318_14757484_4536745 _n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs622.snc4/58197_10150264054460319_532720318_14757486_4983882 _n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs292.snc4/40937_10150264066595319_532720318_14757591_5220990 _n.jpg

[Smoothaz]

shame about the weather! last time i went out there the track was wet aswell and didnt get a decent run till it dried up which was towards the end of the day. Glad to see all those mods did you good. Im going to shift performance track day in November if you want to join me.

[moo moo nel]

Update - Wakefield Park Open Day 2nd Sept

As most of you are aware yesterday was pouring rain! The track was very wet and slippery, so the first few sessions were suicide! I was running semi slicks and you can imagine what happened right?!
It wasn't until the last 2 sessions where the track was starting to dry up, once it did I was able to push the car to a higher limit, all I have to say now is the car has so much grip! With the LSD and semi-slicks the car understeers so little and grips all the way through the corners when you push the throttle! The endless MX72's are awesome! For normal street driving you can't feel such a big difference but on the track, it is unbelievable, the brakes are very consistenly without the need for ABS to kick in.

At the end of the day my PB is 1.18.4, my aim was 1.15 and I know i can definately improve on that - the track was not 100% dry so I was hesitating to push the car harder however from an improvisation view, I shaved off 5 seconds compared to my last PB time. I still need more practice, especially approaching the last corner which is where I particularly lose a lot of time. Hopefully, I can find a nice dry day seeing that spring is here and practise a littler bit more before I do anything else to the car.

Question - my mates STi recently bought new DBA4000 rotors and he is getting brake shudder after the track day, could they possibly be warped?? How can you tell and is it advisable to get them machined or will it affect the heat treatment on the rotor?



well done

[jyh888]

shame about the weather! last time i went out there the track was wet aswell and didnt get a decent run till it dried up which was towards the end of the day. Glad to see all those mods did you good. Im going to shift performance track day in November if you want to join me.

Yea rain on the track especially with semis is suicide! What date is the track day? More details please

[jyh888]

I have a problem with my car at the moment - It seems that after a few hard laps, the idle becomes crazy and starts jumping everywhere, making the car start to bunny hop. The exhaust also starts blowing out black smoke. I suspect that possibly the car is running overly rich from the intake, what do you guys think? Any one have similar problems? And does this harm the engine in any way?

[aaronng]

Question - my mates STi recently bought new DBA4000 rotors and he is getting brake shudder after the track day, could they possibly be warped?? How can you tell and is it advisable to get them machined or will it affect the heat treatment on the rotor?

Were the rotors brand new just installed when he ran them on the track? Or have they been driven around with for a few thousand km? The DBA4000 needs a few thermal cycles to avoid warping, hence the reason why it has temperature indicator marks on the edge of the rotor. Heat treatment is throughout the disc, so machining it shouuldn't affect it. Get the place to check the runout (amount of warp) before he machines it.

[jyh888]

Were the rotors brand new just installed when he ran them on the track? Or have they been driven around with for a few thousand km? The DBA4000 needs a few thermal cycles to avoid warping, hence the reason why it has temperature indicator marks on the edge of the rotor. Heat treatment is throughout the disc, so machining it shouuldn't affect it. Get the place to check the runout (amount of warp) before he machines it.

They were new but he ran them in on the street for about 1000kms at least. After the track day, we took out his old endless CCX pads and found out that they started to crumble and probably had caused grooves in the rotors, hes just recently machined 0.3mm off. Im surprised that DBA rotors can get warped so easily, he must have been braking very hard and late.

Btw anyone, know what I should do with my idling problem? It only happens when the car is driven hard, revs jump from around 1-3k rpm up and down and if i start driving the car it jerks - it has only happened after installing the intake, i was told that black smoke means the car is running rich, but I would have through that by installing a CAI, i would be having more air hence a leaner AFR? Will running a piggyback ECU ovveride this issue??

[Smurf_FN2]

Hey mate your car looks really good with the volks. The 17's actually suit it very well.

Your intake is probably making your car run rich. You need to purchase something like flash pro to adjust the AFR. Our FN2's do not take well to modifications like the other k20 models. induction kits seem to loose power unless you have them mapped to suit mods.

Have you looked into coilovers yet. I was thinkin about BC racing BR coils. They seem to get a very good review and are at an affordable price.

[br3nny]

I have a problem with my car at the moment - It seems that after a few hard laps, the idle becomes crazy and starts jumping everywhere, making the car start to bunny hop. The exhaust also starts blowing out black smoke. I suspect that possibly the car is running overly rich from the intake, what do you guys think? Any one have similar problems? And does this harm the engine in any way?

THE EXACT SAME THING HAPPEN TO ME.

went around the track, after i hopped off the 2nd time (probably after 6 hard laps in total) i went around, idling was up n down between 500rpm - 2,500rpm and A SH!T load of black smoke puffing away like a chimney. i noticed if you let the car sit for a while it will go away but once you hit the track again it'll start puffing again. Then let it sit and when you go home its back to normal again. I've also noticed that it struggles when it gets really hot (eg 40 deg summer day) but it doesn't spit out as much black smoke as the time at the track. :eek:

Bitch of a thing is to get the car moving while its like that you have to ride the clutch a bit just to get it starting and when your trying to move the car to line up it bunny hops like someone's on L plates !:thumbdwn:

the solution mentioned earlier is to get a flashpro, from research i've conducted running a little rich is fine but i explained what happen to a mechanic friend he advised that should probably take it easy, just incase ahah so i won't be going again until i get flashpro tuned up

1 question though, when ur driving day to day do you have any burpling when you let the throttle go or when ur downshifting ?:confused::confused::confused:

[Smoothaz]

Yes the injen makes the car run really rich. Same thing happened to me when I gave the car a good thrashing for about 5 minutes. Similar to running on 3 cylinders lol. Shift track day at wakefield Monday 22nd November. Contact them for a spot.

[jyh888]

Hey mate your car looks really good with the volks. The 17's actually suit it very well.

Your intake is probably making your car run rich. You need to purchase something like flash pro to adjust the AFR. Our FN2's do not take well to modifications like the other k20 models. induction kits seem to loose power unless you have them mapped to suit mods.

Have you looked into coilovers yet. I was thinkin about BC racing BR coils. They seem to get a very good review and are at an affordable price.

Yea I think i've come to the conclusion that the car is running rich - do you know if there is a standard map on the flashpro that will help? I can't really justify paying for a full tune with just an intake...but im not sure if it actually causes a loss in power...it definately does pull harder at the higher rev range but then again it could be just the induction sound lol. Have you got an intake fitted with flashpro or similar?

Yea the 18s weighed too much, 17s are lighter and tyres are cheaper too

I think the stock suspension handles very well, so I am not yet changing it

[jyh888]

THE EXACT SAME THING HAPPEN TO ME.

went around the track, after i hopped off the 2nd time (probably after 6 hard laps in total) i went around, idling was up n down between 500rpm - 2,500rpm and A SH!T load of black smoke puffing away like a chimney. i noticed if you let the car sit for a while it will go away but once you hit the track again it'll start puffing again. Then let it sit and when you go home its back to normal again. I've also noticed that it struggles when it gets really hot (eg 40 deg summer day) but it doesn't spit out as much black smoke as the time at the track. :eek:

Bitch of a thing is to get the car moving while its like that you have to ride the clutch a bit just to get it starting and when your trying to move the car to line up it bunny hops like someone's on L plates !:thumbdwn:

the solution mentioned earlier is to get a flashpro, from research i've conducted running a little rich is fine but i explained what happen to a mechanic friend he advised that should probably take it easy, just incase ahah so i won't be going again until i get flashpro tuned up

1 question though, when ur driving day to day do you have any burpling when you let the throttle go or when ur downshifting ?:confused::confused::confused:

Im glad you posted this! I thought i was the only one with this problem...it seems like our cars are very sensitive to air flow changes, are you going to get a full tune? You also have headers and catback exhaust? Please let me know how it goes after the tune, im also very interested in the results and dyno chart please!

Burpling? Nope not that I am aware of....but the engine does sound a little odd during start up, idle sounds very rough and not as smooth

[jyh888]

Yes the injen makes the car run really rich. Same thing happened to me when I gave the car a good thrashing for about 5 minutes. Similar to running on 3 cylinders lol. Shift track day at wakefield Monday 22nd November. Contact them for a spot.

I guess we all on the same boat! Hmm, ill try to make that track day, are you from sydney?

[Smoothaz]

I guess we all on the same boat! Hmm, ill try to make that track day, are you from sydney?yes i am from sydney. If your interested in modding your car, drop me a pm causes im importing some stuff for the k20 motor, i also can get brakes and sussy for a good price.

[br3nny]

Im glad you posted this! I thought i was the only one with this problem...it seems like our cars are very sensitive to air flow changes, are you going to get a full tune? You also have headers and catback exhaust? Please let me know how it goes after the tune, im also very interested in the results and dyno chart please!

Burpling? Nope not that I am aware of....but the engine does sound a little odd during start up, idle sounds very rough and not as smooth

I've just got a catback exhaust and the injen intake (v1), initially i will go with the tune that is provided based on the parts i have he said he can tune it without the car needing to be on the dyno but he said it won't be perfect but pertty close. At a first glance its quite expensive to get tuning done here in perth so i've still got to look around a little bit and see what else is available. based on how i feel with the initial uploaded map i'll go from there to see if i need to do a dyno tune. i should know by the end of september if i'm getting flashpro or not

i got both installed at the same time but becuase the car is running rich...just driving around normally i've got a light burple and soft pops as i downshift or let go of the throttle, when slowing down at a traffic light in 2nd around 1,000rpm it burples quite a bit. considering that (and after installing the raizin unit) i'm quite surprised that fuel economy is sitting at 8.6L/100km atm with a bit of spirited driving hahah

[jyh888]

I've just got a catback exhaust and the injen intake (v1), initially i will go with the tune that is provided based on the parts i have he said he can tune it without the car needing to be on the dyno but he said it won't be perfect but pertty close. At a first glance its quite expensive to get tuning done here in perth so i've still got to look around a little bit and see what else is available. based on how i feel with the initial uploaded map i'll go from there to see if i need to do a dyno tune. i should know by the end of september if i'm getting flashpro or not

i got both installed at the same time but becuase the car is running rich...just driving around normally i've got a light burple and soft pops as i downshift or let go of the throttle, when slowing down at a traffic light in 2nd around 1,000rpm it burples quite a bit. considering that (and after installing the raizin unit) i'm quite surprised that fuel economy is sitting at 8.6L/100km atm with a bit of spirited driving hahah

From my research, I found that all intakes fitted on the FN2R will produce a very rich AFR, even the base map on flashpro (group N) is fairly rich but with its convenient live datalogger it should be fairly easy to tune the AFR. If you intend to mod your car definately get flashpro, ive heard great reviews about it. For now, im going to revert back to stock airbox before i have enough funds to change manifold and catback and pay for a full tune.

8.6L is very efficient! Mine sits anywhere from 9-11L/100km depending on how I drive.

Anyway, if you do go ahead with flashpro, please keep me updated on the progress and results!

[Smurf_FN2]

Yea I think i've come to the conclusion that the car is running rich - do you know if there is a standard map on the flashpro that will help? I can't really justify paying for a full tune with just an intake...but im not sure if it actually causes a loss in power...it definately does pull harder at the higher rev range but then again it could be just the induction sound lol. Have you got an intake fitted with flashpro or similar?

Yea the 18s weighed too much, 17s are lighter and tyres are cheaper too

I think the stock suspension handles very well, so I am not yet changing it

I thought about buyin an intake but I decided to just get a K&N panel filter for the mean while. Ive just bought a set of 18" re30 volks supposed to be very light so should help with some of the weight. I had my car at weight bridge the other night and totally standard it is 1315kg. That is seriously heavy.

Think im going to get a set of abp eibach springs and lower it 35mm and also setup the front camber and toe to help with understeer.

Think after that I will get flashpro and maybe get etune. Guy civicrsa is doing it on other forums. You send him your datalogs and he sends you a map. He gets great reviews.

If your doing track days you should look into a light bucket seat and strip out them heavy seats.

[br3nny]

I thought about buyin an intake but I decided to just get a K&N panel filter for the mean while. Ive just bought a set of 18" re30 volks supposed to be very light so should help with some of the weight. I had my car at weight bridge the other night and totally standard it is 1315kg. That is seriously heavy.

Think im going to get a set of abp eibach springs and lower it 35mm and also setup the front camber and toe to help with understeer.

Think after that I will get flashpro and maybe get etune. Guy civicrsa is doing it on other forums. You send him your datalogs and he sends you a map. He gets great reviews.

If your doing track days you should look into a light bucket seat and strip out them heavy seats.

thats good to hear..i'm planning on getting it through joel at drivencrazy and he said he can upload a map for me based on what i have (just need to pull the intake apart to measure the diameter of where the MAF sensor is)

FYI if you have any places with hills or high kerbs i'd look twice at getting the 35mm eibach ones...i only JUST clear mine by a hairline otherwise be in for a few scrapes here n there

[jyh888]

thats good to hear..i'm planning on getting it through joel at drivencrazy and he said he can upload a map for me based on what i have (just need to pull the intake apart to measure the diameter of where the MAF sensor is)

FYI if you have any places with hills or high kerbs i'd look twice at getting the 35mm eibach ones...i only JUST clear mine by a hairline otherwise be in for a few scrapes here n there

The driven crazy intake sounds very promising, i am going to singapore on friday so i will be speaking to joel about this issue! Hopefully he can give me some solutions, it seems that with the intake running stock map the car gains 10hp.
If anyone is interested, possibly i could do a group buy and save on shipping costs

[cjcha4]

:thumbsup: I'd be interested in the group buy if that includes the scoop and filter

[tazman888]

might be interested as well depend on the price

[HKS200]

Well DONE JYH! excellent work mate shaving 5 seconds, but i thought your PB was 1:20 for the first time? but yeah man your car was so fun to drive, I was astonished at how poised it was in corners. For those who don't know the STi that Jyh has mentioned is mine, I had done maybe 1300km on the rotors bedded them in doing hard stops 80km/h to 20km/h. I think the mistake was actually running the old pads which obviously had gone past there heat range hence the crumbling. But yeah for all those who want to upgrade the brakes on a DC5R or FN2R dixcel rotors and endless MX72 pads are a must for these cars as the braking confidence is just fantastic

[Smoothaz]

I can supply the scoop'in, pod filter kit and flashpro from driven.

Let me know how low you can go with the price and I'll see if I can beat it.

[munkaii]

Good stuff getting out there with the FN2R mate,

I went down to wakefield with my mates and drove his fn2r for a session to see what it's like. His car was bone stock with 20000km old RE050s but I must admit it was quite fun to drive. Very predictable through corners. The short gearing is awesome around the track. I think your best upgrade would be front brakes though, whether it be rotors/pads or an overhaul has I had to brake extremely early, especially at turn 2, fishhook and turn 12 coming onto the straight. I clocked 1.16.5 in it so keep driving mate, plenty in the car.