My internet adventures, gather around the fire and be enlightened

[Faiz]

Couple of days back, i was searching for info on the new legend awd. Its been released in Usa. I searched from google Usa and a found some quite good reviews. I also stumbled upon a review of the Acura Tl. Now children what happens when too much power goes to the front wheels? The acura TL is a perfect car except for one fauly. very quick 0-100 in 5.5 seconds beating all its bmw and lexus rivals in acceleration and speed. The car is a v6 i think 3 litre. Well the problem with this car is that all that power in front wheels generated understeer and the car could not go around corners compared to its rear wheel rivals. It was hondas mistake, they thought they could pull it of seeing how they did with the euro, on some sites the euro or the TSX was voted luxury sports car of the year, And we stupid ausis only car about our little stupid fords and holdens, Made me think, Americans have good taste. Well the point is the car is perfect but all that power in teh frony generates understeer which is a major fault in the car. A car as quick as this really does deserve to be rear wheel. 5.5 secs in 0-100 in all means isnt slow.

And about the honda legend awd, im a bit disapointe its 0-100 is 6.7. I was hping mid 5 s for this but i guess that was the only thing the reviewers didnt like about the legend awd. And also read due to its awd it has no understeer generated by normal awd cars.

[aaronng]

The 05' Legend only pushes 290HP and that has to move an already heavy car that is further penalised by the added weight and power loss of an AWD system. Granted that when it is working in FWD mode the power loss is less, but when you are doing hard starts for your 0-100 and during cornering when the power is sent to the outer wheel to eliminate understeer, there is a power loss when drive is transferred to the rear wheels. I'm not sure if the 3.5 litre V6 is a DOHC or if it is still using the SOHC head like for the 3 litre V6 engine, but that could also explain why only 290hp was generated from 3.5 litres, very untypical for a sports-orientated Honda with no mechanical limitations. (The Euro's 2.4 is limited by the stroke length, that's why it can only spin up to 7000rpm. It produces peak power at 6800rpm, very close to the redline, hence the limiting factor is the piston linear velocities)

[yfin]

The Euro's 2.4 is limited by the stroke length, that's why it can only spin up to 7000rpm. It produces peak power at 6800rpm, very close to the redline, hence the limiting factor is the piston linear velocities)
Actually Euro red line 7100rpm - fuel cut 7300rpm.

Also - here is an irrelevant fact for you - the Euro has faster piston speed that a Ferrari 360 Modena.

[evolution42]

Also - here is an irrelevant fact for you - the Euro has faster piston speed that a Ferrari 360 Modena.
how do you know that? (im not doubting you in any way, im just wondering...)

[yfin]

how do you know that? (im not doubting you in any way, im just wondering...)
This is what a moderator on Acurazine.com posted--not sure the exact source they got it from - it is one reason why it could be a bad idea to raise the rev limit on the Euro.

1. Honda S2000:
Engine Code: F20C1
Bore/Stroke: 3.43" X 3.31"
Redline: 9000rpm
Piston Speed: 4965 Ft/min

2. Lamborghini Gallardo
Engine Code: N/A
Bore/Stroke: 3.25" X 3.65"
Redline: 8000rpm
Piston Speed: 4866.67 Ft/min

3. Acura Integra Type R
Engine Code: B18C5
Bore/Stroke: 3.19" X 3.43"
Redline: 8400rpm
Piston Speed: 4802 Ft/min

4. BMW M3 (Germany)
Engine Code: S54
Bore/Stroke: 3.43" X 3.58"
Redline: 8000rpm
Piston Speed: 4773.33 Ft/min

5. Honda S2000 2004
Engine Code: F22C
Bore/Stroke: 3.43" X 3.57"
Redline: 8000rpm
Piston Speed: 4760 Ft/min

6. Honda Integra Type R (JDM)
Engine Code: K20A
Bore/Stroke: 3.39" X 3.39"
Redline: 8400rpm
Piston Speed: 4746 Ft/min

7. Acura Integra GSR 2001
Engine Code: B18C
Bore/Stroke: 3.19" X 3.43"
Redline: 8200rpm
Piston Speed: 4687.67 Ft/min

8. Saleen S7
Engine Code: N/A
Bore/Stroke: 4.13" X 4.00"
Redline: 7000rpm
Piston Speed: 4666.67 Ft/min

9. Acura TSX
Engine Code: K24A2
Bore/Stroke: 3.43" X 3.90"
Redline: 7100rpm
Piston Speed: 4615 Ft/min

10. Suzuki Hayabusa Sport Prototype
Engine Code: W701
Bore/Stroke: 3.19" X 2.48"
Redline: 11000rpm
Piston Speed: 4546.67 Ft/min

11. Honda Civic Type R
Engine Code: B16B
Bore/Stroke: 3.19" X 3.03"
Redline: 9000rpm
Piston Speed: 4545 Ft/min

12. Toyota Celica GTS / Matrix XRS 2001
Engine Code: 2ZZ-GE
Bore/Stroke: 3.23" X 3.35"
Redline: 8100rpm
Piston Speed: 4522.5 Ft/min

13. Honda Prelude Type S (JDM)
Engine Code: H22A
Bore/Stroke: 3.43" X 3.57"
Redline: 7500rpm
Piston Speed: 4462.5 Ft/min

14. Acura RSX Type S
Engine Code: K20A2
Bore/Stroke: 3.38" X 3.38"
Redline: 7900rpm
Piston Speed: 4450.33 Ft/min

15. Ferrari 360 Modena (incl. Challenge, Stradale, etc)
Engine Code: N/A
Bore/Stroke: 3.35" X 3.11"
Redline: 8500rpm
Piston Speed: 4405.83 Ft/min

16. Lamborghini Murcielago
Engine Code: N/A
Bore/Stroke: 3.43" X 3.42"
Redline: 7600rpm
Piston Speed: 4332 Ft/min

17. McLaren F1
Engine Code: N/A (BMW V12)
Bore/Stroke: 3.39" X 3.43"
Redline: 7500rpm
Piston Speed: 4287.5 Ft/min

18. Renault Clio 2.0 RS 2003
Engine Code: F4R
Bore/Stroke: 3.26" X 3.66"
Redline: 7000rpm
Piston Speed: 4270 Ft/min

19. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 2004
Engine Code: N/A
Bore/Stroke: 3.94" X 3.01"
Redline: 8500rpm
Piston Speed: 4264.17 Ft/min

20. Pagani Zonda C12S
Engine Code: M120 7.3 AMG
Bore/Stroke: 3.6" X 3.64"
Redline: 7000rpm
Piston Speed: 4246.67 Ft/min

21. Peugeot 206RC 2004
Engine Code: EW10 J4 S
Bore/Stroke: 3.35" X 3.46"
Redline: 7300rpm
Piston Speed: 4209.67 Ft/min

22. Porsche Carrera GT
Engine Code: N/A
Bore/Stroke: 3.86" X 2.99"
Redline: 8400rpm
Piston Speed: 4186 Ft/min

23. Acura NSX-T
Engine Code: C32B
Bore/Stroke: 3.66" X 3.07"
Redline: 8000rpm
Piston Speed: 4093.33 Ft/min

24. BMW M5 2002
Engine Code: S62
Bore/Stroke: 3.70" X 3.50"
Redline: 7000rpm
Piston Speed: 4083.33 Ft/min

25. BMW M5 E60
Engine Code: S65 (?)
Bore/Stroke: 3.62" X 2.96"
Redline: 8250rpm
Piston Speed: 4070 Ft/min

26. Nissan Primera W20V
Engine Code: N/A
Bore/Stroke: 3.39" X 3.39"
Redline: 7200rpm
Piston Speed: 4068 Ft/min

27. Ferrari Enzo
Engine Code: F140
Bore/Stroke: 3.62" X 2.96"
Redline: 8000rpm
Piston Speed: 3946.67 Ft/min

28. Ferrari 575 Maranello
Engine Code: 650 V21
Bore/Stroke: 3.50" X 3.03"
Redline: 7750rpm
Piston Speed: 3913.75 Ft/min

[tinkerbell]

how do you know that? (im not doubting you in any way, im just wondering...)
it is due to the really l o n g stroke of 99mm

(which is what gives it so much torque)

teh bottom end had to be specialy strenghened to support the (relativly) high redline...

[tinkerbell]

oh and yfin - nice stats ;)

[aaronng]

Actually Euro red line 7100rpm - fuel cut 7300rpm.
Yup, you are right. I was quoting off the top of my head just now. 7000rpm is a rough figure. :D

It's interesting to note in the list of vehicles with such high piston speeds that only the Euro/TSX, Celica/Matrix and the possibly the Clio Sport (2.0) are the only mass-production engines that were not hand balanced, polished and lightened, and yet achieve such high piston velocities without breaking apart.

[JDM Element]

....Faiz....ur a funny ****.....hahah :D

Maybe Honda's goal, was not to have sports type handling on a big luxury car...
Hope they can work on it tho!

[NeoNode]

From all Faiz posts I came to a conclusion, all he cares about in a car is 0 - 100 times by the sound of things, that's the stats he'll quote the most, if it's slow, you be assured he'll say something about it :p

[Slugoid]

carFaiz is always entertaining....always digging a hole for himself :D


Now children what happens when too much power goes to the front wheels? Humm....lots of front wheel burnout :D . Too much power at the front wheels does not cause understeer. Look at the Civic and Integra Type-R's. I don't see them understeer much. It's because of the sheer weight of the car, and probably soft suspension (for a luxury car) that made the TL understeer.

Normal AWD is more netutral steer with bias towards understeer. I don't think there is any AWD with no understeer at all, including the AWD kings (Evo, STi).

Oh yeah, what's the point of your post anyway?? That the TL is uber fast but understeers a lot, and it should have been a RWD instead?? That the Euro is better than the TL?? That the Legend AWD should have been faster?? It seem like a bunch of useless fact from the very reliable internet.

[coladuna]

There's no car in the world that doesn't understeer. It's simply impossible. Hell, even F1 cars understeer. Some people seem to think that FWD automatically = understeer, RWD automatically = oversteer and AWD automatically = no understeer or oversteer at all, which is absolute rubbish.

I don't even buy that 'TL does nothing but understeer BS' as well. Maybe the person who drove the car entered corners at ridiculous speeds and complained about understeer.

[tinkerbell]

my car doesnt understeer.

[Type R Positive]

my car doesnt understeer. Bastard! :D

[tinkerbell]

24mm rear swaybar ;)

stock = 14mm - its all about the big rear swaybar...

[coladuna]

24mm rear swaybar ;)

stock = 14mm - its all about the big rear swaybar...
Sorry but no matter what mods you have on your car, you'll still have understeer. I hope you were joking when you said you dont' have any understeer.

[Type R Positive]

It all depends on how suspension is set up and how you drive if you have undeer steer or not.
Big rear sway bars help eliminate understeer big time.

[JDM Element]

Exactly, every car will experience understeer! Thats right, Even hondas! :(

[tinkerbell]

Sorry but no matter what mods you have on your car, you'll still have understeer. I hope you were joking when you said you dont' have any understeer.
sorry, i should have said "i dont experience understeer in my car."

maybe only at speeds above 150kmh around a 90 degree corner will i experiece it, but i dont do that...

BTW - can you please define understeer colanduna?

[Slugoid]

Understeer is the loss of traction in the front wheels, or front kicking out. It's like trying to go into a corner but your car is heading wide or worse, straight.

It's easy to experience understeer. Tying going up to 60km/h, then brake hard while turning. Cars with no ABS will just go straight forward if you don't release the brake a little.

[tinkerbell]

Understeer is the loss of traction in the front wheels, or front kicking out. It's like trying to go into a corner but your car is heading wide or worse, straight.

It's easy to experience understeer. Tying going up to 60km/h, then brake hard while turning. Cars with no ABS will just go straight forward if you don't release the brake a little.
hmmmm, lock up understeer is very different to normal understeer...

BTW - if i hit the brakes at 60 and turned at the exact same time, i would definitly experience oversteer...

ie the tail swinging around...

[coladuna]

maybe only at speeds above 150kmh around a 90 degree corner will i experiece it, but i dont do that...

Hey, you drive a Honda Integra Type-R, not a formula 1 car.
You must be confusing yourself.

[tinkerbell]

sorry, you seem to have missed the sarcasim of that comment...

[coladuna]

sorry, you seem to have missed the sarcasim of that comment...No matter how many times you look at it, I can't see how that can be a sarcasm, but if you say so.

[Faiz]

yes the reviewer who drove the tl, drove it on a track with the 3 series and other rear wheel luxury cars. It would not take in corners and turns easily when compared to its rear wheel drive competiters. The Tl is aiming for people with money obviously and they would like something in performance and sport. Yes its fast but whats the use if it cant handle all that performance. Honda did admit to this fault because they said they aimed for performance more than the handling i read somewhere. And this isno minor understeer, its an under steer which cannot be missed when going around corners in bit high speeds. I think the Rl deserved bit more power aye. :)

[viperx]

the new legend is quite nice, very cohesive design, i just sat in it about a week ago =)

[toE]

Excuse my ignorance...but Acura TL is/will be the new Legend, correct? :o

[viperx]

no the legend will be the new acura RL

[razaman]

Mmmmmm - Mugen Legend!:thumbsup:

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNzE1NzgzNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNzE1Nzg0NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNzE1Nzg1NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNzE1Nzg2NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNzE1Nzg4NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

And a Modulo Legend.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNzE1NzgyNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

Raz:D

[Dominik]

The Tl is aiming for people with money obviously and they would like something in performance and sport
No, only young people with too much money would look at the TL for performance. Older people with money dont usually want a high performance race car with neck-snapping acceleration and spleen rupturing handling. They want a luxurious plush ride that will soothe their aching bones. But they will want it to be able to overtake a civic, hence the power.

Look at Rolls Royces, Maybachs etc, they have phenomenal power, but i wouldnt like to try going around a corner at more than 100km/h.

Now, if these people are into performance too, they will buy a performance car. It wont be a TL or whatever, it will be an Elise, or S2000, or even a Type R...

[viperx]

modulo? i think i have a poster and brouchure for that from the honda dealer..
though i didnt get a chance to hit the mugen showroom. grr

[toE]

no the legend will be the new acura RL

Ok.
Then the TL is the (insert answer here) :p

:)

[viperx]

the acura TL used to be the honda inspire. now the honda inspire name got taken by the american accord in japan (i have seen a few around), so I dunno what they will sell it as if they even do. it is not available at the moment in japan at least.

[euro77]

I heard it win the Japanese Car of the Year. Well done :honda:! :thumbsup: