B16/B18 frank help

[dougie_504]

Hey guys,

Looking for some instructions on how to get this done. Have tried a search but without success, maybe I'm using the wrong keywords I don't know.

My brother has a '98 Integra with B18B non-VTEC and I have bought a JDM B16A complete head with TB, IM, internals, loom, alternator etc for $130.
I want to use the B16A head to make my brother's Integra a B16/B18 VTEC frank.


Could somebody please direct me to some information regarding this build, or share some experiences if you have done it yourself?


Ta,
Andy.

[Wace]

Well firstly same as a B20VTEC/LSVTEC * indicates compulsory
*You will need either tuneable ecu (crome,hondata) or may use a standard VTEC ecu such as VTiR P72 (not recommended as your combo is two different)
*Golden Eagle VTEC kit or similiar
ARP rod bolts (to safely rev about 6,500+)
VTEC gearbox ( recommended as the GSi is way to long, will drop out of vtec )
Head service, Bottom end Service (recommended )
*Need to wire up vtec
thats the basic of the basic build, depending on how far you want to with the build, id recommend modding it anyway if your gonna open it up

[dougie_504]

Well firstly same as a B20VTEC/LSVTEC * indicates compulsory
*You will need either tuneable ecu (crome,hondata) or may use a standard VTEC ecu such as VTiR P72 (not recommended as your combo is two different)
*Golden Eagle VTEC kit or similiar
ARP rod bolts (to safely rev about 6,500+)
VTEC gearbox ( recommended as the GSi is way to long, will drop out of vtec )
Head service, Bottom end Service (recommended )
*Need to wire up vtec
thats the basic of the basic build, depending on how far you want to with the build, id recommend modding it anyway if your gonna open it up

Thanks for that mate, I appreciate it.

The car is a daily driver and currently has I/H/E. If I can go ahead with the B16/B18 it'll still run that same I/H/E. I know that the head needs a reco first too. The main problem is my brother's funding - I'm hoping to get this done for $1000-1500 max, so I need to know roughly how much this kind of build costs so I can scrap it ASAP if need be.


For the ECU I was hoping to maybe use an OEM B16A ECU from a JDM CRX or something similar. I guess I can consider an after market one, maybe an E-Manage as I've heard they're not too dear.

What's included in the GE VTEC CK and why do you need it? I know you need them for B20VTEC setups but I thought/hoped you might not for B16/B18.

And how do you wire up VTEC in a non-VTEC car? I have the OEM loom for the JDM B16A, but will I be needing some sort of conversion harness or piggyback?


With the ARP head studs I know they're a great product but I wouldn't consider them for this setup. I believe the OEM ones will be fine to rev 8000+ and it won't receive constant flogging, just an occasional squirt as it's a DD.

VTEC GBox - have considered this and I'm of the opinion that an ITR box on it's own would be a better upgrade than the I/H/E we already did or any other mod, however I'd honestly like to avoid it if the GSR one can handle VTEC reasonably - it's another $1500 + labour that I can't fit into my brother's budget if I want to do the frank - one or the other I guess.

[string]

What's included in the GE VTEC CK and why do you need it? I know you need them for B20VTEC setups but I thought/hoped you might not for B16/B18.

VTEC runs from oil pressure delivered by the block - absent from the non-VTEC blocks, be it the B18 or B20. The kits give you an oil line to run externally to the head.



And how do you wire up VTEC in a non-VTEC car? I have the OEM loom for the JDM B16A, but will I be needing some sort of conversion harness or piggyback?

Two extra wires.



With the ARP head studs I know they're a great product but I wouldn't consider them for this setup. I believe the OEM ones will be fine to rev 8000+ and it won't receive constant flogging, just an occasional squirt as it's a DD.

You will need B18C headstuds, ARP or not. Rod bolts aren't compulsory (fuel cut on the non-vtec 1.8's from 92+ is 7200 rpm, not 6500 as quoted in post#2, as an indication of how high you can rev "safely") but you'll be mad when you spin a bearing.



VTEC GBox - have considered this and I'm of the opinion that an ITR box on it's own would be a better upgrade than the I/H/E we already did or any other mod, however I'd honestly like to avoid it if the GSR one can handle VTEC reasonably - it's another $1500 + labour that I can't fit into my brother's budget if I want to do the frank - one or the other I guess.
Did you mean GSR (i.e. B18C1 VTi-R) or GSi? The non-vtec GSi gearbox is the longest of all the B-series boxes (4.26 final drive) and will destroy your hopes and dreams. A GSR gearbox will fall out of VTEC 1st-2nd unless you have a low activation RPM as is standard on the GSR motor (4400).

[dougie_504]

VTEC runs from oil pressure delivered by the block - absent from the non-VTEC blocks, be it the B18 or B20. The kits give you an oil line to run externally to the head.
Makes sense, thank you.



Two extra wires.
Any more detail re: this please?



You will need B18C headstuds, ARP or not. Rod bolts aren't compulsory (fuel cut on the non-vtec 1.8's from 92+ is 7200 rpm, not 6500 as quoted in post#2, as an indication of how high you can rev "safely") but you'll be mad when you spin a bearing.
I guess I assumed that stock bolts would still 'safely' rev 800-1000 RPM over their standard fuel-cut point - what if you install after market cam shafts and tune your car to rev close to or over 8k RPM? I'm sure this has been done without new head bolts. But I will consider this point strongly nonetheless - no point having an unreliable DD.



Did you mean GSR (i.e. B18C1 VTi-R) or GSi? The non-vtec GSi gearbox is the longest of all the B-series boxes (4.26 final drive) and will destroy your hopes and dreams. A GSR gearbox will fall out of VTEC 1st-2nd unless you have a low activation RPM as is standard on the GSR motor (4400).
Yeah that's what I meant, sorry. Not the best with Integra models. It's non-VTEC GSi with B18B - so I guess the GBox is pretty much useless huh? lol

[string]

You'll also need a new headgasket and most importantly a tunable ECU and a tune if you want the most for your $$.



Any more detail re: this please?

VTEC pressure switch and solenoid (both running off the VTEC solenoid near the dizzy) need to run two wires directly to the ECU plug. Not all of the pins are used, you just add the two extra wires onto your stock grey ECU plugs.



I guess I assumed that stock bolts would still 'safely' rev 800-1000 RPM over their standard fuel-cut point - what if you install after market cam shafts and tune your car to rev close to or over 8k RPM? I'm sure this has been done without new head bolts. But I will consider this point strongly nonetheless - no point having an unreliable DD.

Head bolts and rod bolts are two separate deals. Non-VTEC rod bolts are smaller than the VTEC rod bolts. Up to you whether or not you use them but as a note, it is well documented that they can't handle 8000+rpm.
You need the VTEC head bolts because they're not the same length as the non-VTECs so you're up for $150 for a set of ARP's anyway.



Yeah that's what I meant, sorry. Not the best with Integra models. It's non-VTEC GSi with B18B - so I guess the GBox is pretty much useless huh? lol
Compare the acceleration of a DA9 to a DC4 (virtually identical powertrain except for final drive) and you'll see why it's useless, and why the 4.7fd ITR box is so sought after. The VTi-R box has the same 1st and 2nd as the non-VTEC boxes but a shorter 3rd 4th and 5th. ITR and B16 boxes are the ones to get if you want maximum benefit from your gearing.

I wouldn't bother if I were you. It won't feel any faster until you increase the wheel torque which means either more capacity or shorter gearing. You're doing neither. I'd quit while you're only out $130 because it's going to cost you at least 10 times more to get it going fastish.

[dougie_504]

Thanks for the advice.

But the good thing is that I'm not going to consider myself $130 out at this stage. To find a JDM B16A full head for $130 is a good deal, so I'll find something to do with it :D

[Wace]

Do not go ahead with the build if your going to be using a B16a ECU to run it.

[dougie_504]

Well the ECU is something that I can change easily, but the GBox isn't, so it won't be going ahead for that reason alone. Pity :(

[string]

It isn't a budget build when "done right", that's for sure. Best bang for buck on a GSi is probably a B16 gearbox funnily enough - even without VTEC. Haven't run it through cartest.exe but i'd happily bet that it'll result in a quicker dash to ~120kph than a bit of extra power from I/H/E.

[dougie_504]

^ Duly noted, and will consider this point.

I know that the general rule is to pick 2 of the following options - 'cheap', 'reliable' and 'power' but you can't have all 3 more often than not.

So maybe down the track when my brother can free up $1g or so I might see if I can source a B16A2 hydro GBox for him.



Thanks for the help guys.
Andy

[GSi_PSi]

1k is too much imo for a b16a box, their around 400-600 max

[dougie_504]

I wouldn't know TBH. I've seen JDM B16A Y1 GBox's with LSD go for around $1g. But basically I'm just over-estimating just in case I pay $600 for a box that needs a new clutch or synchro etc. The 3rd G synchros are pretty pissweak after a life of flogging lol

[Limbo]

b16a GB without LSD is pretty common, can be had for about $600.
The reason the Y1 is expensive is its a cable box with LSD, not a common thing.
For the price of the b18b, you'd prob better getting a b20b block to work with and sell the b18b block

[dougie_504]

Yeah so I'm told. Not going down the B16/B20 VTEC though. Funds lol