Hard dog roll bar - Seeking additional buyer!

[aozora]

Hi guys,

I'm looking to buy one of the Hard dog roll bars from the US. But the costs of shipping are a bit extreme for me... however if 2 roll bars are bought and shipping, the shipping price is much the same as buying 1.
So, just wondering if anybody is interested in one of these roll bars with me at half cost shipping? :)

Please PM me if you're interested. I've been quoted at around $700 shipped... so basically you'd pay around half that plus the bar in USD.

Information located here...
http://www.bethania-garage.com/s2000.htm

As some background, these are all welded without structurally weak bends or bolts to connect up joints as known in the Cusco/Crushco design. The basic roll bar unit can still utilise the center console and soft top with options listed on the website.

Note: Did run this by LUDCRS before posting :)

[JAP-S2K]

I'm interested! But your in melb?!?!?!

[vyets]

Stupid ben xD I'll be your buyer just wait LOL

[aozora]

Where are you JAP-S2K? I think courier would be a hassle :(

Vyetz: I want it asapppppppp

[alvin_R]

was wanna say , with this similar price can we get Cussco instead?? im also think japan postage cost would be cheaper than from the state...correct me if im wrond\g, but if u also dont mind to get a cussco from japan im really willing to share the freight cost with u asap as well as im in melbourne too,.....

[aozora]

was wanna say , with this similar price can we get Cussco instead?? im also think japan postage cost would be cheaper than from the state...correct me if im wrond\g, but if u also dont mind to get a cussco from japan im really willing to share the freight cost with u asap as well as im in melbourne too,.....
Sorry, the designs of the Cusco aren't as good/safe as the Hard dog roll bar. Looks better but that's about it :)

[JAP-S2K]

I'm in syd. I agree..... the crushco roll cage is all cosmetic.

[vyets]

Cusco cage is FTL!

You don't need no cage ASAP ben, you don't go fast enough to roll :P hahahaha

[alvin_R]

haha....u r right vyet....if u ready to buy cussco one let me know , we can share the shipping cost ^^

[vyets]

Wait wut..!?? I just said cusco one is crap LOL

[STAiN MASTER]

Who sells cusco 4pt in Australia?

[alvin_R]

oh common....Cussco isnt tat crap.....


Wait wut..!?? I just said cusco one is crap LOL

[ludecrs]

one on ebay a few weeks ago for $500. Missed out.

Neither Cusco nor Hard Dog are track compliant, so both are useless IMO.

[STAiN MASTER]

one on ebay a few weeks ago for $500. Missed out.

Neither Cusco nor Hard Dog are track compliant, so both are useless IMO.

Brad, which ones are?

[thebob]

Those hard dog ones are for LHD. This is shown by the high point of the diagonal bar highest point on the left side. Above the drivers head. In RHD it will be on the wrong side and in the event you end up on your roof you will be as crushco as cusco.

[ludecrs]

^ What Bobby said.

The diagonal cross bar is on the wrong side.
From memory the cross bar is welded in the wrong spot on the lower weld too, you'd have to confirm that with someone like Fireball or Chris Barry on s2ki though as I'm not 100% positive of the exact positioning its required to be for CAMS.

[STAiN MASTER]

Do they mke just a harness bar for the s2k, instead of a roll cage.

[vyets]

USDM
http://www.gtmotoring.com/images/S21DH.jpg
REMIXED!!
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y298/ballfire99/s2000/IMAG0161.jpg

[9large]

^ What Bobby said.

The diagonal cross bar is on the wrong side.
From memory the cross bar is welded in the wrong spot on the lower weld too, you'd have to confirm that with someone like Fireball or Chris Barry on s2ki though as I'm not 100% positive of the exact positioning its required to be for CAMS.

Brad, when you order the Hard Dog roll bar, you can select several options, including reversing the diagonal. No matter what roll bar or cage setup you use, it needs to be approved for compliance by a certified engineer in Australia. Typically compliance is to satisfy ADR or CAMS regulations.

The Hard Dog roll bar is ok, but the reasons why the Cusco cages aren't known to be great - for serious trackers - involve the design and construction of the cage. Note that the Cusco chromoly cages are not approved in Japan or the SCCA of the US. The Hard Dog roll bar, however, is.

[JAP-S2K]

Not 100% on this one, but i think CAMS require a welded in cage, no bolts in's. Correct me if i'm wrong?!?!

[9large]

Not 100% on this one, but i think CAMS require a welded in cage, no bolts in's. Correct me if i'm wrong?!?!

It doesn't have to be, but the main issue here concerns the compliance of the mounting - the feet, the reinforcement plates, and bolts.

[ludecrs]

I was just going by what Jon said about his one (pictured above by Vyets as "remixed"). I know he wasn't sure (at the time about 4 days prior to SuperLap) if it would pass the regulations due to the fact the weld location on the lower side of the diagonal wasn't weld to the apex (by apex I mean base where it mounts & bolts to the chassis) but rather was welded an inch or 2 higher.

[aozora]

Unfortunately due to the rarity of people actually hitting the track with the S2K here, local workshops don't have much experience with constructing/designing the roll bars so the cost of getting one made locally is quite excessive (Was quoted well over 1k at a few places).

My main concern personally isn't so much CAMS compliance but general safety. The roll hoops in the S2K don't reach high enough to satisfy my concerns about my head going missing in the event of a roll over... I can't remember who, but somebody has purchased a "standard" Hard dog roll bar then had the appropriate diagonal welded in locally to satisfy CAMS requirements, so that's always an option later.
So at present, personally I'm not that concerned with CAMS requirements... as I'm not racing in any categories for a while :p But as far as I know, "removeable" diagonal braces and harness mounts are not permitted through CAMS... if anybody feels like reading the regulations, feel free, they're quite extensive :( If CAMS want a welded in roll bar... personally I'd probably forget about entering any CAMS events as it pretty much means, your car can't be returned to stock all too easily.

Cusco as stated, is not accepted under any racing regulatory body that I know of, simply because the piping diameter is too small, the bends in the structure, use of bolts on removeable piping etc. I've seen pictures of it surviving a roll over (The Safety 21 version anyway) but I'd rather have the option of perhaps using it for CAMS events later... which it clearly will not ever be and also knowing that if my head does bounce around in a roll over, that there aren't bolts protruding for my head to impale itself on :) Posers... rock on.

The strange thing that I don't understand, is that under the WTAC 2010 requirements, a Hard top was sufficient?? When I'm somewhat sure that a hard top will struggle to stay intact during a roll over... can anybody add to this? Because if a hard top will suffice, that might be a better option for me personally... or perhaps getting lower seats so my head isn't so high up...

PS: Vyets is gay and enjoys Honda povo fanboy love. Hahah <3

[ludecrs]

Personally, I'd go with your last 2 options being that I, like you, am quite tall @ 190cms and that your not concerned with racing regulations.

BYS Low down seat rails go on Yahoo JP regularly enough to keep an eye out. BYS rails are hte lowest rails on the S2K market, followed by genuine Mugens, however Mugens don't fit OEM seats like BYS rails do being that they are side mount.

[3AM]

has anyone tried bond roll bars (nsw)? If he doesnt already have the specs for an s2000
if you went there without the soft top on so he had access, and some pictures of other rollbars for s2ks, im sure he would be able to easily spec it up and be able to make a half cage for a decent price.

FYI my bolt in half cage for my 180sx was around 600 a few years back. and it was the first 180sx he did, so he did a custom fit at no extra charge. I think his prices have gone up since then but you are sure to get change from 1k for a bolt in.

theyre built to CAMS specs too.

[9large]

Cusco as stated, is not accepted under any racing regulatory body that I know of, simply because the piping diameter is too small, the bends in the structure, use of bolts on removeable piping etc.

This is correct, only certain tubing dimensions and bolt types are allowed. One point in particular, CAMS regulations stipulate that only one bend is allowed in the front roll bar. If you look at the Cusco cages often found in S2000s, there are two. This weakens the structure of the bar, making it more prone to collapse during a roll-over.

http://image.hondatuningmagazine.com/f/10469855/htup_0808_08_z+honda_s2000_ap1_and_ap2+cusco_roll_ cage.jpg


But as far as I know, "removeable" diagonal braces and harness mounts are not permitted through CAMS

The diagonals are actually allowed to be removable, but they need to be installed during competition.

I agree that having a roll bar or half cage provides an extra level of protection, even for the street. Except if it's designed like most of the Cusco cages of course. But yes, good for bling though!

[9large]

I was just going by what Jon said about his one (pictured above by Vyets as "remixed"). I know he wasn't sure (at the time about 4 days prior to SuperLap) if it would pass the regulations due to the fact the weld location on the lower side of the diagonal wasn't weld to the apex (by apex I mean base where it mounts & bolts to the chassis) but rather was welded an inch or 2 higher.

Yeh, I know it's a picture of his car - don't worry I've seen it plenty of times ;) I think he was just echoing sentiment from the cage builder. It would arguably be stronger if the diagonal was welded to the same corner on the main bar, but CAMS regulations actually allows you to mount the diagonal within 100mm of the feet. Besides, I was primarily responding to your agreeance with the comment below, which is incorrect, if not, misleading.


Those hard dog ones are for LHD. This is shown by the high point of the diagonal bar highest point on the left side. Above the drivers head. In RHD it will be on the wrong side and in the event you end up on your roof you will be as crushco as cusco.

[vyets]

No Ben a Hardtop is not enough.. well not for this mx5 anyway :( Poor guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMmjaaSQP08

Drive to NSW and get a custom Bond cage made ben :)

[aozora]

How much are the Bonds cages?

To negate everything I said about the Crushco... well this is Safety 21 (same design but made of steel instead of chromoly)
http://www.s2ki.com/gallery/image/medium/419605.jpg
http://www.s2ki.com/gallery/image/medium/419595.jpg
http://www.s2ki.com/gallery/image/medium/419597.jpg
http://www.s2ki.com/gallery/image/medium/419604.jpg

[thebob]

Yeh, I know it's a picture of his car - don't worry I've seen it plenty of times ;) I think he was just echoing sentiment from the cage builder. It would arguably be stronger if the diagonal was welded to the same corner on the main bar, but CAMS regulations actually allows you to mount the diagonal within 100mm of the feet. Besides, I was primarily responding to your agreeance with the comment below, which is incorrect, if not, misleading.

I never said anything about getting complianced or engerneered. I was commenting on the fact the diagonal is on the wrong side.

[9large]

I never said anything about getting complianced or engerneered. I was commenting on the fact the diagonal is on the wrong side.

That's true.


Those hard dog ones are for LHD. This is shown by the high point of the diagonal bar highest point on the left side. Above the drivers head. In RHD it will be on the wrong side and in the event you end up on your roof you will be as crushco as cusco.

However, you suggested that the Hard Dog roll bars are for LHD only, and that it would be irrelevant for those with RHD vehicles as the diagonal would be on the wrong side. The implication being that it was unsuitable or unavailable for Australian/RHD vehicles. This is obviously not true.

My comments relating to the compliancing were directed at comments suggesting that the Hard Dog roll bar would be useless and unsuitable for track-work. This is also, not true.

[Ferrari]

Holy shit vyets that video was intense!!!

[JamieP]

that crash video is intense! you almost feel as if your in the car as it happens. Lucky the guy was wearing a helmet

[thebob]

However, you suggested that the Hard Dog roll bars are for LHD only, and that it would be irrelevant for those with RHD vehicles as the diagonal would be on the wrong side. The implication being that it was unsuitable or unavailable for Australian/RHD vehicles. This is obviously not true.

My comments relating to the compliancing were directed at comments suggesting that the Hard Dog roll bar would be useless and unsuitable for track-work. This is also, not true.

I also didnt say you werent able to use it. I simply said the diagonal is on the wrong side and in the event of a tip over it will not be all that different from cusco. IMO it would probably hold up better then cusco, but in the perfect world you want that diagonal high side to be behind your head.

[9large]

Fair enough; it's all good mate. Btw, nice time at QR on the weekend :thumbsup: