crx51
19-06-2010, 01:33 AM
Hey All,
Background-
I have just become the owner of a 98' Integra Vtir as our second car. I'd have loved a type R but they're unfortunately out of budget. I thought I'd share my views on the car.
I have owned a few Hondas (2xED9 crx's and a CBR600RR) and driven a lot of other brands and classes of car. I recently found myself in need of a second car. My requisites were - something under $12k that is reliable, fun, liveable. Fun was the big thing though, it's easy to find cars that do the other things, but I've always just found Hondas to be good fun...
Honda seem to get their gearboxes close to spot on, their engines are nice and smooth and revvy with some nice aural character and they handle nicely. Yeah it's a honda forum so you're probably used to seeing it written but it's all true. For the budget I had, there's not much else that is as fun whilst remaining reliable and relatively practical.
Car Review -
Exterior - It's a subjective thing. Some people like them, others think they're hairdressers cars. Of those that like them some like to make them look like club racers, others keep them stock. My impression is they're a good looking car. The lines are simple, many are starting to look their age through neglect but a tidy one is still sporty yet subtle. The panel gaps and quality of paint are consistent with most Japanese made cars. - very good. Mine is stock, silver and has dark tint, and besides a slightly lower stance - that's the way it shall stay.
Interior - I've seen a lot of reviews that said the interior wasn't up to scratch with the rest of the car. I must say I disagree somewhat. The dash is extremely clear, as are all important items. The plastics are relatively hard but the fit of them is spot on. It's a 12year old car without any rattles (except that the hatch bounces slightly - will try to fix tomorrow). The interior is reasonably classy but certainly doesn't look like a very expensive car. The things is, it doesn't rattle and the dash has no cracks or anything, compare that to a same era Falcon or Lancer and you'll see the merits. Honda have gone for quality over flash.. The seats are very grippy with plenty of bolstering for a standard car and they remain very comfortable, though i'm yet to test them on a long drive. The sounds system (standard) is passable but sound quality isn't as crisp as I like, nore does it carry the depth of sound I like but it's a standard sound system in a 12 year old car. The rear seat is for children. The leg room in the rear isn't horrendous (for such a small coupe) but the headroom is a bit dangerous as the rear window actually finishes above your head if you're in the back with a large lip where the glass meets the 'ceiling'.. My six foot brother hit his head on this under brakes. If you were in an accident this lip would be incredibly dangerous - there should genuinely be a maximum height limit for rear passengers. Despite this ommission I believe the rest of the interior to be great but the HIGHLIGHT is that EVERYTHING is where you expect. I'd only been driving it for minutes when I first picked it up and went in search of the sunroof controls. Exactly where my hand fell without needing to look. Same thing with windows and mirrors. The seats don't have those stupid dials that so many cars use these days that take forever to adjust the rake on your backrest, instead they use simple levers... It's in the small things Honda excels!! It's comfortable, well built and intelligently designed...
Engine -
The engine is one of the highlights of this car. At 1.8litres it's not a big engine, and the car isn't an ultralight (though nor is it heavy), but the engine does it's job well. In normal sedate city driving the car actually feels reasonable torquey. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised by this as it's the reason Honda designed VTEC - flexibility. But it really is easy to drive and you're never really left wanting in this manner of driving. The engine is designed to have vtec activate on WOT at about 4400rpm, with another change at 5800rpm with the opening of butterflies in the intake manifold. This is one vtec engine that misses a little on the vtec crossover roar, or the nothing very little... EVERYTHING feel of some of those that went before it. It may not have a definitive point where things go from boring to excitement.. But in its place it is a more linear engine to rev. It doesn't lose out for performance either. It's not as quick as a type R which is and obvious statement, but it's quick in its own right. There is a slight note change at the vtec crossover but over 6000rpm is where you want to be and the noise is great when you're in that band. It definitely invites you to reach for it's upper register regularly.. When you're revving, this engine is bliss. When you're driving sedately it drives like your mums civic. It doesn't compromise much. Where you can catch the engine out is when you're trying to make quick progress up a steep incline, there really isn't a substitute for torque in these situations, so if you drop too many revs (for instance exiting a tight uphill corner in second) your progress will be abated but it will pull respectably again as soon as you pass that vtec crossover and feel better again once well past 5000. Once in that upper register though you again forget about the fact it's a small capacity with a small amount of torque, and instead you find another gear to feel and hear it all over again. Not good for fuel economy but great for inducing a wry smile.
Gearbox-
Typical Honda, is probably all that needs saying. It's tight, even after all these years. The gates are very close so you're not moving the lever far between gears and the throw is pretty short too. The feel is positive and well oiled with a satisfying 'snick' into each new gear. You always know where you are with it and will seldom ever miss shift or find the wrong gear. The actual gearing is in my opinion ever so slightly too tall. At the same time though, they do have a type R if you have more money and you want gearing set up for acceleration. I didn't have the money, but I'm extremely happy with my car. The gearing works out at about 63, 107, 150, 197, X..X through the gears at 8000rpm (I have NOT tested these - these figures were based on gear ratio/tyre diameter calculations). The gearing when looking at it isn't that tall when you consider that those speeds have been drawn out by 8000rpm, but in those moments like I previously mentioned it would be great to be able to get into the meat of the power a bit earlier. But this is why they geared the type R so short, to take advantage of it's powerband. The gearing isn't annoyingly tall but it's not as sportingly short as the type R, that's all, and I guess I love my performance and i'm happy to sacrifice a bit of comfort and fuel for performance. That being said though, it's not that often it's a problem as it will still pull quick from above 4k in second on a flat, it's only when you throw in a steep hill. There are of course advantages of the gearing too. Converse to my argument for shorter gearing, it's also great to be able to hold one gear (2nd) between corners where a type R would force you to grab for third... This advantage would be reversed on a quicker section of race track though where a type r might hold third right in its power but the vtir would be lingering just outside it's power. That's probably enough rambling about the gearing though, you'll never read to the end if I don't shut up. All in all though the gearBOX is an absolute pleasure to use!
Brakes-
The stock brakes seem well up to the task of stopping the car. Standard with 262mm front discs, good calipers and abs (for safety) the brakes have little issue pulling up a reasonbly light car. They haven't caused me to worry on some steep mountain descents but if truly punished with high speed stops down the hill they would of course fade. They don't have the invincible feel of some brakes i've sampled but they are confidence inspiring and strong for most drivers. You'd have to be giving them a very hard time to unsettle them.
Steering-
The steering is good. I'm used to a crx, which felt quite direct to drive. The integra really feels like a grown up CRX. The steering has a slight ammount of slop in just on centre. You'll move the steering wheel a centimetre around it's perimeter before you get a reaction from the car. This no doubt would have been engineered IN in order to reduce the kickback and feedback through the wheel caused by corrugations and torque steer. It makes for a more comfortable and relaxing drive and helps the car feel more settled, but I want it to be sharper so I'll try to factor this out with stiffer bushes and things. Once past that initial softness the steering is very good. It's direct enough to be good fun and you get enough feedback to feel confident in what the car is doing. The steering would have its chance to come into its own with stiffer suspension though..
Suspension-
The suspension that comes standard is a very smart compromise by Honda. It rides compliantly for a small sports coupe. It glides nicely on the highway and doesn't chip your teeth on bad roads. Long sweepers and corners you can set up for don't worry it. At slow speeds it sits quite flat but pushing a little harder there is evident body roll. If you're smooth then the car will settle on its tyres and let you feel what it's doing again. Where you'll have issues is if you've come in hot or have to adjust your line midcorner. Due to the body roll it can unsettle the car a little and while it's in these transition periods it's harder to get accurate feel and feedback through the steering wheel. The car is not wallowy as such, but it's not stiff and tied down. When you string a few changes of directions together the roll is quite pronounced, again it's fine if you're smooth but jerky motions are not your friend when you have a car yawing... Braking after running too hot into a slalom would net a scary moment I think, but you have to realise the limits of your car. Drive smoothly and it's not soft enough to ruin your fun, it's still a blast and can devour back roads at a respectable pace. But the car is comfortable for a reason, Honda are good but they haven't managed to give zero body roll and 100% compliance yet (sarcasm). I like a bit more control at the expense of some comfort so i'll be tuning out the roll by way of a swaybar and stiffer suspension, but as is you could still have a lot of fun.
Summary-
I couldn't be happier with the car. It's a complete package for a car so cheap. The gearbox/engine/handling are all a pleasure to exploit. It's not a race car but it's still quick enough to be good fun. Nothing will let you down in the car and you'll want to be changing gears all the time just to rev it to 8200 again and again, and feel that positive snick on the gearchange. If you're after something hardcore and have the money then get a type r. If you're after a fun car at a great pricepoint, that doens't use much fuel (driven sedately), will be reliable and give you a smile every time you drive it - The vtir is a good place to look. I honestly couldn't be happier with what I got within my budget, and I've driven a lot of cars.
Background-
I have just become the owner of a 98' Integra Vtir as our second car. I'd have loved a type R but they're unfortunately out of budget. I thought I'd share my views on the car.
I have owned a few Hondas (2xED9 crx's and a CBR600RR) and driven a lot of other brands and classes of car. I recently found myself in need of a second car. My requisites were - something under $12k that is reliable, fun, liveable. Fun was the big thing though, it's easy to find cars that do the other things, but I've always just found Hondas to be good fun...
Honda seem to get their gearboxes close to spot on, their engines are nice and smooth and revvy with some nice aural character and they handle nicely. Yeah it's a honda forum so you're probably used to seeing it written but it's all true. For the budget I had, there's not much else that is as fun whilst remaining reliable and relatively practical.
Car Review -
Exterior - It's a subjective thing. Some people like them, others think they're hairdressers cars. Of those that like them some like to make them look like club racers, others keep them stock. My impression is they're a good looking car. The lines are simple, many are starting to look their age through neglect but a tidy one is still sporty yet subtle. The panel gaps and quality of paint are consistent with most Japanese made cars. - very good. Mine is stock, silver and has dark tint, and besides a slightly lower stance - that's the way it shall stay.
Interior - I've seen a lot of reviews that said the interior wasn't up to scratch with the rest of the car. I must say I disagree somewhat. The dash is extremely clear, as are all important items. The plastics are relatively hard but the fit of them is spot on. It's a 12year old car without any rattles (except that the hatch bounces slightly - will try to fix tomorrow). The interior is reasonably classy but certainly doesn't look like a very expensive car. The things is, it doesn't rattle and the dash has no cracks or anything, compare that to a same era Falcon or Lancer and you'll see the merits. Honda have gone for quality over flash.. The seats are very grippy with plenty of bolstering for a standard car and they remain very comfortable, though i'm yet to test them on a long drive. The sounds system (standard) is passable but sound quality isn't as crisp as I like, nore does it carry the depth of sound I like but it's a standard sound system in a 12 year old car. The rear seat is for children. The leg room in the rear isn't horrendous (for such a small coupe) but the headroom is a bit dangerous as the rear window actually finishes above your head if you're in the back with a large lip where the glass meets the 'ceiling'.. My six foot brother hit his head on this under brakes. If you were in an accident this lip would be incredibly dangerous - there should genuinely be a maximum height limit for rear passengers. Despite this ommission I believe the rest of the interior to be great but the HIGHLIGHT is that EVERYTHING is where you expect. I'd only been driving it for minutes when I first picked it up and went in search of the sunroof controls. Exactly where my hand fell without needing to look. Same thing with windows and mirrors. The seats don't have those stupid dials that so many cars use these days that take forever to adjust the rake on your backrest, instead they use simple levers... It's in the small things Honda excels!! It's comfortable, well built and intelligently designed...
Engine -
The engine is one of the highlights of this car. At 1.8litres it's not a big engine, and the car isn't an ultralight (though nor is it heavy), but the engine does it's job well. In normal sedate city driving the car actually feels reasonable torquey. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised by this as it's the reason Honda designed VTEC - flexibility. But it really is easy to drive and you're never really left wanting in this manner of driving. The engine is designed to have vtec activate on WOT at about 4400rpm, with another change at 5800rpm with the opening of butterflies in the intake manifold. This is one vtec engine that misses a little on the vtec crossover roar, or the nothing very little... EVERYTHING feel of some of those that went before it. It may not have a definitive point where things go from boring to excitement.. But in its place it is a more linear engine to rev. It doesn't lose out for performance either. It's not as quick as a type R which is and obvious statement, but it's quick in its own right. There is a slight note change at the vtec crossover but over 6000rpm is where you want to be and the noise is great when you're in that band. It definitely invites you to reach for it's upper register regularly.. When you're revving, this engine is bliss. When you're driving sedately it drives like your mums civic. It doesn't compromise much. Where you can catch the engine out is when you're trying to make quick progress up a steep incline, there really isn't a substitute for torque in these situations, so if you drop too many revs (for instance exiting a tight uphill corner in second) your progress will be abated but it will pull respectably again as soon as you pass that vtec crossover and feel better again once well past 5000. Once in that upper register though you again forget about the fact it's a small capacity with a small amount of torque, and instead you find another gear to feel and hear it all over again. Not good for fuel economy but great for inducing a wry smile.
Gearbox-
Typical Honda, is probably all that needs saying. It's tight, even after all these years. The gates are very close so you're not moving the lever far between gears and the throw is pretty short too. The feel is positive and well oiled with a satisfying 'snick' into each new gear. You always know where you are with it and will seldom ever miss shift or find the wrong gear. The actual gearing is in my opinion ever so slightly too tall. At the same time though, they do have a type R if you have more money and you want gearing set up for acceleration. I didn't have the money, but I'm extremely happy with my car. The gearing works out at about 63, 107, 150, 197, X..X through the gears at 8000rpm (I have NOT tested these - these figures were based on gear ratio/tyre diameter calculations). The gearing when looking at it isn't that tall when you consider that those speeds have been drawn out by 8000rpm, but in those moments like I previously mentioned it would be great to be able to get into the meat of the power a bit earlier. But this is why they geared the type R so short, to take advantage of it's powerband. The gearing isn't annoyingly tall but it's not as sportingly short as the type R, that's all, and I guess I love my performance and i'm happy to sacrifice a bit of comfort and fuel for performance. That being said though, it's not that often it's a problem as it will still pull quick from above 4k in second on a flat, it's only when you throw in a steep hill. There are of course advantages of the gearing too. Converse to my argument for shorter gearing, it's also great to be able to hold one gear (2nd) between corners where a type R would force you to grab for third... This advantage would be reversed on a quicker section of race track though where a type r might hold third right in its power but the vtir would be lingering just outside it's power. That's probably enough rambling about the gearing though, you'll never read to the end if I don't shut up. All in all though the gearBOX is an absolute pleasure to use!
Brakes-
The stock brakes seem well up to the task of stopping the car. Standard with 262mm front discs, good calipers and abs (for safety) the brakes have little issue pulling up a reasonbly light car. They haven't caused me to worry on some steep mountain descents but if truly punished with high speed stops down the hill they would of course fade. They don't have the invincible feel of some brakes i've sampled but they are confidence inspiring and strong for most drivers. You'd have to be giving them a very hard time to unsettle them.
Steering-
The steering is good. I'm used to a crx, which felt quite direct to drive. The integra really feels like a grown up CRX. The steering has a slight ammount of slop in just on centre. You'll move the steering wheel a centimetre around it's perimeter before you get a reaction from the car. This no doubt would have been engineered IN in order to reduce the kickback and feedback through the wheel caused by corrugations and torque steer. It makes for a more comfortable and relaxing drive and helps the car feel more settled, but I want it to be sharper so I'll try to factor this out with stiffer bushes and things. Once past that initial softness the steering is very good. It's direct enough to be good fun and you get enough feedback to feel confident in what the car is doing. The steering would have its chance to come into its own with stiffer suspension though..
Suspension-
The suspension that comes standard is a very smart compromise by Honda. It rides compliantly for a small sports coupe. It glides nicely on the highway and doesn't chip your teeth on bad roads. Long sweepers and corners you can set up for don't worry it. At slow speeds it sits quite flat but pushing a little harder there is evident body roll. If you're smooth then the car will settle on its tyres and let you feel what it's doing again. Where you'll have issues is if you've come in hot or have to adjust your line midcorner. Due to the body roll it can unsettle the car a little and while it's in these transition periods it's harder to get accurate feel and feedback through the steering wheel. The car is not wallowy as such, but it's not stiff and tied down. When you string a few changes of directions together the roll is quite pronounced, again it's fine if you're smooth but jerky motions are not your friend when you have a car yawing... Braking after running too hot into a slalom would net a scary moment I think, but you have to realise the limits of your car. Drive smoothly and it's not soft enough to ruin your fun, it's still a blast and can devour back roads at a respectable pace. But the car is comfortable for a reason, Honda are good but they haven't managed to give zero body roll and 100% compliance yet (sarcasm). I like a bit more control at the expense of some comfort so i'll be tuning out the roll by way of a swaybar and stiffer suspension, but as is you could still have a lot of fun.
Summary-
I couldn't be happier with the car. It's a complete package for a car so cheap. The gearbox/engine/handling are all a pleasure to exploit. It's not a race car but it's still quick enough to be good fun. Nothing will let you down in the car and you'll want to be changing gears all the time just to rev it to 8200 again and again, and feel that positive snick on the gearchange. If you're after something hardcore and have the money then get a type r. If you're after a fun car at a great pricepoint, that doens't use much fuel (driven sedately), will be reliable and give you a smile every time you drive it - The vtir is a good place to look. I honestly couldn't be happier with what I got within my budget, and I've driven a lot of cars.