View Full Version : My new exhaust.
WA-EG
05-07-2010, 11:50 PM
Wooooooo. finally got my exhaust done. the old one was very tired and the rear muffler was slowly being eaten
its 2 1/4 inch cat back with a hi flow hot dog in the b pipe and an S12 xforce twin loop at the rear.
already i can feel a difference with the ass dyno. has a much nicer note now too.
1516915170
lsvtec
06-07-2010, 12:34 AM
how much did it cost? where from?
SuperJDM.
06-07-2010, 12:36 AM
did you get a new tip?
WA-EG
06-07-2010, 01:04 AM
umm $450 all up. the twinloop added bit to the price.
Just went to a Mettams Mufflers. guy was great and discussed heaps of options.
Yeah muffler came with no tip, so i just got him to fit a small droop tip.
SuperJDM.
06-07-2010, 01:26 AM
umm $450 all up. the twinloop added bit to the price.
Just went to a Mettams Mufflers. guy was great and discussed heaps of options.
Yeah muffler came with no tip, so i just got him to fit a small droop tip.
Oh ok i was planning on doing that. If i cut the tip of my S10 of and put a regular tip on would there be a difference in tone or and would that be ok?
WA-EG
06-07-2010, 01:41 AM
Oh ok i was planning on doing that. If i cut the tip of my S10 of and put a regular tip on would there be a difference in tone or and would that be ok?
according to my guy today tips dont make that much difference in the noise factor unless the extended pieces of pipe. my mini has around another foot of pipe after the muffler. makes sizeable difference in noise. m
Alvis
06-07-2010, 09:37 PM
Congrats on new muffler mate! You'll have to upload a video clip so we can all hear it :D
Looks nice, I prefer the tip to come straight out tho (just my opinion, each to their own i guess) - what's the benefit of a twin loop design?
WA-EG
06-07-2010, 09:45 PM
Congrats on new muffler mate! You'll have to upload a video clip so we can all hear it :D
Looks nice, I prefer the tip to come straight out tho (just my opinion, each to their own i guess) - what's the benefit of a twin loop design?
Yeah normally I would have had the tip poking straight out, but saw this style on a car the other day and really liked it.
Essentially the twinloop is a straight through muffler, cept the exhaust gases pass through the muffler twice (via the loop) so you get the benefit of two muffler for noise suppression.
Alvis
07-07-2010, 01:12 PM
Ahh right, thanks for explaining - never knew that - so is there any performance benefit? Or just for sound - less noise right? :~
TheSaint
07-07-2010, 05:54 PM
you get the performance of a canon but it sounds like a revvy oval barrel =)
the tip will effect the sound ... if you keep the double walled perferated x-force tip ... the sound will be alot less droney and it will be deeper ... the droop tip will have a bit more drone but the droop shape takes the sound down a little
double walled + perferated is the best =)
EDIT - i demand a sound clip!!
Alvis
07-07-2010, 10:42 PM
Ahh... thanks Saint! That's why I never wanted to get a cannon because of the drone - so annoying and so ricey! If only I'd known before I got my exhaust lol
And YES! Video please! :D
in the meantime thought i'd give you some encouragement ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxQB3jMbORs
WA-EG
08-07-2010, 10:52 AM
patience fellas. middle of moving house so will get sound clip when i can. will also have to learn how to load youtube vids. Ha ha.
Sound is not as deep as i'd liked but heaps better than before. No more fart crackle through vtec range.
The guy had done similar set up with smaller hotdog in the middle. Reckons no difference in sound with different tip. was on an EK. not sure what engine though.
Best part by far is no drone. cause its stainless muffler i can hear a slight tinny ring to the exhaust note.
As for performance. not huge but definitely revs a little quicker. still restricted by stock headers and cat.
pablos8
08-07-2010, 11:18 AM
i'll do a sound clip of my catback with s12 and different tip tonight when i get home :)
Alvis
08-07-2010, 11:43 AM
Ah..., sorry mate we were being a bit hasty weren't we lol - but yep, i had a high flow cat installed on my EK too. Not sure on performance gains, but if DEFINITELY breathes so much better. I think it's even more economical on the highways too - engine sits right on 3000 rpm at 110km/h which is good - i think i used to be about 3200 with stock setup.
The only other "benefit" with the high flow cat is it will be louder than just a cat-back system and I get an awesome crackle/pop in the exhaust note on some of my up shifts as well as a nice deep burble from the injectors shutting off when you hit about 3000rpm in 2nd & back off and just let it come down the rev range :)
Not convinced on the benefits of getting a new set of headers... I remember reading an article on a Type R dyno test where they compared stock vs aftermarket and it gained about 3-5hp at over 6,000 rpm or something like that - I'll try and find the article when I get home... Just not sure money vs gain if it's worth it...
TheSaint
08-07-2010, 12:06 PM
i got the crappy N*Power headers from ebay and installed them myself ... all up cost was like $140 lol
they made a good bit of difference with stock cat+catback with intake ... not much difference in sound ... maybe a little more of a wooshing sound .. but a fair bit more torque ... could feel the car push me back into the chair alot more at lower rpm =)
WA-EG
08-07-2010, 12:36 PM
gotta remember Alvis that the Type R gear is much better than standard gear cause they are much more highly strung engines from the factory. JDM TYPE R headers are a great up grade to normal civic.
Standard factory headers are mass produced items and are not made for performance but for emissions and fuel economy. performance usually takes a back seat.
Alvis
08-07-2010, 01:03 PM
mmm... good point, and very true EK Civics were pretty much made on a shoestring budget at that time for Honda... Would a B series R header fit a D series engine or would you have to go aftermarket?
pablos8
08-07-2010, 01:16 PM
mmm... good point, and very true EK Civics were pretty much made on a shoestring budget at that time for Honda... Would a B series R header fit a D series engine or would you have to go aftermarket?
Don't think so, but there are plenty of decently priced aftermarket D-Series headers, depends how much your willing to spend, I know felix (Race Nation) on here sells xforce ones, if theyre still a bit too pricey, just go on ebay! :)
heres the link for the x-force exhaust goodies
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?64470-RaceNation-XFORCE-HEADERS-MUFFLER-HIGH-FLOW-CAT-*DC2-TWINLOOP-CATBACK-BACK-IN-STOCK
WA-EG
08-07-2010, 01:24 PM
mmm... good point, and very true EK Civics were pretty much made on a shoestring budget at that time for Honda... Would a B series R header fit a D series engine or would you have to go aftermarket?
they'll fit........... if you upgrade to B series engine. :-)
from what i've seen D series headers can be bought on the cheap. look at Saint. 140 bucks off ebay. they are never gunna be a horsepower monster so no point buying expensive headers when you'll get the same result with cheapys.
TheSaint
08-07-2010, 01:26 PM
they'll fit........... if you upgrade to B series engine. :-)
from what i've seen D series headers can be bought on the cheap. look at Saint. 140 bucks off ebay. they are never gunna be a horsepower monster so no point buying expensive headers when you'll get the same result with cheapys.
agreed =)
dougie_504
08-07-2010, 01:40 PM
What steel? Stainless, carbon, mild? Mandrel or press bends?
Alvis
08-07-2010, 01:46 PM
mmm... not sure on ebay - i spoke to one bloke at the exhaust shop (probably not the best example cause he wanted me to buy his product lol) but he was saying he bought an ebay header for a Ford (now there's a mistake to start with!) and was basically crap and bogged the car down. But then again that was the same shop who quoted me a 2 1/2 inch on stock D16!
I might just leave the headers, i have a tendency to do it properly or nothing at all, can't help it :) - and i like my polished heat shield now lol
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?134790-***Official-What-did-you-do-to-your-EK-today***
WA-EG
08-07-2010, 01:46 PM
What steel? Stainless, carbon, mild? Mandrel or press bends?
all good valid questions. :-)
umm mild steel piping with stainless rear muffler. carbon? Huh.......??? bends... The only kind there is. mandrel of course.
WA-EG
08-07-2010, 01:52 PM
mmm... not sure on ebay - i spoke to one bloke at the exhaust shop (probably not the best example cause he wanted me to buy his product lol) but he was saying he bought an ebay header for a Ford (now there's a mistake to start with!) and was basically crap and bogged the car down. But then again that was the same shop who quoted me a 2 1/2 inch on stock D16!
I might just leave the headers, i have a tendency to do it properly or nothing at all, can't help it :) - and i like my polished heat shield now lol.
talk with saint. he got some good gains from an ebay header. you could go out and spend 800 bucks on a brand name header but for d series just not worth it. spend 200 and put the other 600 into savings for a B series conversion. :-)
TheSaint
08-07-2010, 02:05 PM
if i had a b16 or a b18 ... it would be 5zigen or toda all the way $1000+++
but for a D ... ebay!! its cheap enough to replace if it dies and it made a good amount of difference on my car ... nice and clean and easy to install
same goes for exhaust ... if its a D i would get a mild steel mandrel bent system ... but for a B ... probably go Mugen catback ... wait .. i did lol
WA-EG
08-07-2010, 02:22 PM
i would go a mugen if i had a type r or similar i would justify the cash. but when one thing costs like 30% of what i bought the car for... Not worth it
Alvis
08-07-2010, 02:49 PM
Yeh, agree, there is a economies of scale line you need to watch you don't step over... If I had a Type R tho, I'd probably be in that much debt I couldn't afford any JDM mods haha - but ohh... mugen exhausts sound sooooo nice :D
But i'm happy with the way the car is, it's never going to be a Type R tho - save for the real thing or maybe a CR-Z with a K series loaded into it! ;)
dougie_504
08-07-2010, 03:56 PM
Is there a major difference between mild steel and stainless steel?
And how significant is the difference between press and mandrel bends?
Because I want a cheap cat-back for my D16Y1 Civic as all of my main $$$ is going into the EF8 head :)
Alvis
08-07-2010, 04:06 PM
mild steel will probably last you up to 5 years, s/s will last you up to 10 years
Depends how often you drive the car (i got s/s cause i only drive mine on weekends cause commute by train to work) but if you drive everyday mild steel is fine. But like WA-EG i'd still get the muffler s/s regardless to stop it rusting out on you...
ps. some guy from an exhaust shop told me the sound of out mild steel sounds different to s/s - not sure i believe this... and who knows what the difference would be - i wasn't bothered to ask lol
WA-EG
08-07-2010, 04:08 PM
Is there a major difference between mild steel and stainless steel?
And how significant is the difference between press and mandrel bends?
Because I want a cheap cat-back for my D16Y1 Civic as all of my main $$$ is going into the EF8 head :)
umm weight is the main difference. stainless is wanky looking too. maybe a little bit of heat transferance.
Umm big difference here due to flow. press bent you lose diameter when the pipe bends which restricts flow. i have heard of a few people just going larger diameter and press bent to get same flow.
As for your catback. mandrel bent system should be pretty well priced. i guess that depends on what you think is reasonable. but a simple 2" catback with hotdog and normal muffler on the rear (not twinloop as that adds cost) would be pretty cheap. around 300 to 350 bucks i would imagine. depending on what make of muffler you dd
WA-EG
08-07-2010, 04:10 PM
mild steel will probably last you up to 5 years, s/s will last you up to 10 years
Depends how often you drive the car (i got s/s cause i only drive mine on weekends cause commute by train to work) but if you drive everyday mild steel is fine. But like WA-EG i'd still get the muffler s/s regardless to stop it rusting out on you...
ps. some guy from an exhaust shop told me the sound of out mild steel sounds different to s/s - not sure i believe this... and who knows what the difference would be - i wasn't bothered to ask lol
usually S/S systems sound a little more tinny as they are thinner metal. i can hear a slight tinny noise from my muffler which i didnt have before.
Alvis
08-07-2010, 04:15 PM
urrr... yes and weight lol - thanks WA-EG
Yep, my cousin just got 2in cat back mild steel and s/s cannon for $290 installed - so $300 is on the money :)
yes as stated above, SS exhaust is generally thinner than mild steel and therefore sounds a bit higher pitch and raspier..
as for headers affecting the exhaust note - an efficient good-flowing header will actually make your car QUIETER as there is less resonance etc.
When i switched from Stock Cast iron manifold to Tanabe (same as fujitsubo) 4-2-1, it was a LOT quieter and throttle response was better... then I upgraded to Mugen 4-1 the other day and is even quieter and deeper.. and a much better [power gain - though low down throttle response isnt as good as it has a 2.5" collector versus the 2" on the Tanabe.
as for the X-Force twin loop - is it the 2nd generation design ? a mate of mine back years ago bought the Xforce twin loop (gen1) and it sounded fkn awfull farty raspy poo.. and then at VTEC it was just disgustingly farty and rattly and screamed like something was gonna explode inth emuffler HAHA.. but that version had a 'normal' single-walled tip (straight).. from my experience with mufflers over the years, the droopy tips actually work well at eliminating RASP !!
WA-EG - where did u get the exhaust done ? I am in need of a 2.25" mandrel mild steel B-pipe for my del-sol.. and yes I used to run a 2.5" mandrel bent mild steel - even with the D16Y1 and it was great for top end but droned like a mofo.. when i swapped to the 2.33" spoon system it sounded much better and there was a noticable gain in performance.
WA-EG
08-07-2010, 04:33 PM
from Mettams Mufflers and exhaust in Belmont. its just on the corner of great eastern highway and belmont ave. guy is pretty laid back. when i picked up the car he was chilling have a smoke and a beer. does really good work and pretty good turn around. i dropped it off at 8 and he was done just after lunch.
I havent been able to go for a full bash at high revs to hear it properly. but the raspy fart noise is gone.
Where did you get the tanabe headers? i was looking at catbacks, the medalion touring, but didnt know they made headers too.
ohh the Tanabe is OLD OLD OLD !!
it wasnt branded TANABE - it just had a JASMA tag anda Serial Number - so I contacted JASMA in Japan withthe serial number and they looked it up and told me it was made by 'Tanabe Manufacturing Co' and they gave me a build date of 94 or something like that.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k210/VTEChnique/TANABE%204-2-1/TANABE_4-2-1_5.jpg
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k210/VTEChnique/TANABE%204-2-1/TANABE_4-2-1_4.jpg
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k210/VTEChnique/TANABE%204-2-1/TANABE_4-2-1_1.jpg
I cant even remember where I bought it from - either NZ or someone on here.. was thinking of selling it but I think i'll polish it up and throw it onto my Del Sol :)
might have to go see that muffler place - i work in Burswood so not too far from there :)
WA-EG
08-07-2010, 05:22 PM
are they b series? if you were to be rid of them how much would you be asking? pm me if you're keen.
Yeah its just behind the TBE and repco. there is also a goodyear tyres dealer there too.
dougie_504
08-07-2010, 05:29 PM
Thanks for the help guys. I think I'll look into a mild-steel mandrel-bent cat-back, hopefully a cheap cat converter (like N*Power or something) and a S/S tip. Wanna do it all on the cheap though, so hopefully get it all done for $550 +/-. Civic is my daily. With my EF8 I'm gonna go RS*R cat-back to mate to my RS*R header :D
dougie_504
08-07-2010, 05:30 PM
Tanabe is top quality, up there with stuff like Jun, 5-Zigen and TODA I believe :)
pablos8
08-07-2010, 11:07 PM
quick sound test for the s12 twinloop with a 2" catback no resonator for you :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLIDoEmX4lg
didn't want to rev it too much, everyone would of gotten pissed lols
yeah man they are meant for B16A - wont fit a B18 or B20 without adding a spacer to the join section.
Am considering selling the Del Sol for something else.. this header wont fit on the other car.. if I sell the del sol will sell the header - will let you know :)
dougie_504
09-07-2010, 04:36 PM
Don't wanna put the header on your del sol, or got something else already?
quick sound test for the s12 twinloop with a 2" catback no resonator for you :)
didn't want to rev it too much, everyone would of gotten pissed lols
that sounds pretty good !! they must have changed the design / build quality.. or jsut that tip is helping the awfull farty raspy crap noise like I know from the gen1 version !! though the worst noise was at VTEC switch !!
Don't wanna put the header on your del sol, or got something else already?
nah I havnt put the (tanabe) Header on the Del sol yet.. MIGHT do it this weekend :) but I am considering selling the Del Sol for *another Honda*... IF i do that, the *other Honda* allready has a header so I wont need the Tanabe and I will sell it :P
I put THIS on my EG :P
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k210/VTEChnique/JDM%20Bits/crusty-mugen_4-1_6.jpg
dougie_504
10-07-2010, 12:09 AM
^
What's that? All I can see is that it's JDM...
Mugen 4-1 with 2.5" collector - for B18C.. it had some ceramic coating that i had sandblasted off ond then it had some aluminium coating which I half sanded off but wanted to put it on.. will rip it off again soon and sand back and polish like a mofo ;)
dougie_504
11-07-2010, 03:13 AM
Damn man, Mugen and Tanabe. Decisions decisions...
WA-EG
12-07-2010, 10:26 AM
mmmmmmmm mugen 4-1's..... Can anyone say top end power. ha ha. i say polish like a mofo. unless you want stealth the ceramic coat black. :-)
WA-EG
12-07-2010, 10:28 AM
oh yeah, whats the 'other Honda'?
please share
HAHAH nah that's not for discussion untill it happens - is a case of "dont count your chickens before the eggs hatch" :)
Top end ?? yeah the mugen takes off at 7,000RPM and rips my car into torque steer !!
Definately will go the polished approach - painted headers dont look right IMO..
main reason for the change was the collector size - was a bottleneck in the system running the stock 2" cat :(
WA-EG
13-07-2010, 10:03 AM
secret car purchase. i like it. Lol
7000rpm :-O ha ha i would benefit for about 200rpm then have to change gear lol
HAHA yeah I cant decide what to do - but cant do anything till Del Sol is sold.. but i havnt actively got it up for sale LOL.. Sol is so nice n clean and stock and good condition :(
200RPM ? what motor is in your civic ? for some reason I thought u had a B16.. mine stock revs to 8,600 but have SPOON ECU with 9,000 redline.. power drops off at 8,800 though :P
WA-EG
13-07-2010, 01:06 PM
HAHA yeah I cant decide what to do - but cant do anything till Del Sol is sold.. but i havnt actively got it up for sale LOL.. Sol is so nice n clean and stock and good condition :(
200RPM ? what motor is in your civic ? for some reason I thought u had a B16.. mine stock revs to 8,600 but have SPOON ECU with 9,000 redline.. power drops off at 8,800 though :P
decisions decisions. i suppose it depend on whether you have plans for it. would it be better off in some one elses hands. im guessing you dont use it as a daily.....
Nah i got B18c2. redline is like 8 something k. but peak power is made at like 7.5k. i dont really like revving it out that high though. even though engine hasnt even cracked the 90thou km's yet.
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