Are Hondas suitable for me? (Lack of low end torque and power)

[PeppeX]

Ok, i am starting to question myself if a Honda is really what i should be getting. I was looking to get a DC5R or a EP3R, both housing a K20 engine. I know the EP3R has a better engine than the DC5R.

But looking at the specs of the DC5R engine (K20A2)
147kW@7400RPM, 192Nm@6000RPM

From the specs we can see it has the power once it hits VTEC. But as i have read Hondas lack low end power, which would make them unpractical on the road, as u would need to shift down 2 gears and hit VTEC to just overtake someone. Also i think having a Honda will make it hard to get the sensation of getting pushed back into ur seat without breaking the speed limit unlike other cars which have max torque at around ~3000-4000rpm and max power at ~6000rpm.

I do love the sound of VTEC, but i am now starting to question the practicality. I think Honda is more suitable as a second car which u take to the track and will constantly be in the VTEC band.

Anyway please voice ur opinion :)

[sretocz]

But as i have read Hondas lack low end power, which would make them unpractical on the road, as u would need to shift down 2 gears and hit VTEC to just overtake someone.

Are you serious ? EP3R/DC5R may not be as practical as say a commodore but as far as driving is concerned, no you dont have to down shit 2 gears to overtake somebody. They are as practical as the majority of hatches out there.

[PeppeX]

Are you serious ? EP3R/DC5R may not be as practical as say a commodore but as far as driving is concerned, no you dont have to down shit 2 gears to overtake somebody. They are as practical as the majority of hatches out there.

Ok maybe that was a bit of an exaggeration but yeah acceleration in low rpm will not be as available as a commodore.

Another reason is the reputation they have built... when ppl see a honda type r they will be like "ricer who cant even drive"

Also its kinda like cop bait

[CB7_OWNER]

"Getting pushed back into your seat feeling" is really a trait of a forced induction car...

Your complaining about "Honda" cars not having enough low end power...merely because Honda = VTEC in your world( sorry if im jumping to conclusions).. but in reality Honda is the same as any other car manufacture..

If your saying Honda is not the car for you, just because you have to be in "VTEC" to have power... then what about all the other companies out there.. Like toyota,mazda, mitsubishi, hyundai, kia, suzuki etc etc just to name a few which like Honda engines wont give you a "push feeling back into the seats" in lower rev range. Of course with the exception of some V6 variants made by those companies.

Even more realistically, in the real world.. honda's and the forementioned cars are probably the " most " practical on the road because they are fuel efficient and relatively good performance when you need it...


If your looking for that " push back into seat" feeling, and something practical.. consider something like a golf gti mkv ( full boost around 2k rpm), and you definitely wont get that "ricer driver" look.

Honda isn't for you

[yellows2k]

im not sure what ur trying to say here. hondas have a reputation for lacking torque. but ive never seen it as a problem. there are plenty of 4 cylinder cars out on the roads that have similar if not lower power ratings, hyundai, toyota corollas, barinas, lasers, the list goes on and on. do any of those drivers suffer serious life threatening issues from lack of power??
in all honesty, what do u want the car for, u live in sydney, u will spend the majority of the time in medium density traffic, the liklihood of u being able to open the car up is limited. unless ur a hoon, then u wont have much chance to vtec.
ive owned a few hondas, never had an issue with the lack of torque, my driving style nowadays means that i spend most of the time in 4th and 5th gear and rarely get above 4k rpm. ive learnt to live with traffic, and my car is transport for me
just ask what u want from the car

[PeppeX]

in all honesty, what do u want the car for, u live in sydney, u will spend the majority of the time in medium density traffic, the liklihood of u being able to open the car up is limited. unless ur a hoon, then u wont have much chance to vtec.

I think i am after a car for a bit of fun.

U said exactly what i was thinking, since Hondas a kinda built to have fun in the high rev range and we live in sydney we wont be able to open the car up to that range hence why i am questioning if i should get a Honda.


well if you think a commodore will beat a vtec? think again

I know VTEC can beat commodores... lol I would never get a commodore anyway


"Getting pushed back into your seat feeling" is really a trait of a forced induction car...

Your complaining about "Honda" cars not having enough low end power...merely because Honda = VTEC in your world( sorry if im jumping to conclusions).. but in reality Honda is the same as any other car manufacture..

If your saying Honda is not the car for you, just because you have to be in "VTEC" to have power... then what about all the other companies out there.. Like toyota,mazda, mitsubishi, hyundai, kia, suzuki etc etc just to name a few which like Honda engines wont give you a "push feeling back into the seats" in lower rev range. Of course with the exception of some V6 variants made by those companies.

Even more realistically, in the real world.. honda's and the forementioned cars are probably the " most " practical on the road because they are fuel efficient and relatively good performance when you need it...


If your looking for that " push back into seat" feeling, and something practical.. consider something like a golf gti mkv ( full boost around 2k rpm), and you definitely wont get that "ricer driver" look.

Honda isn't for you

I was actually in my friends Golf GTI MKV the other day.... The push back was very nice and was continuous throughout the rev range. But like u said it is a turbo so u cant compare it to that.

Really want to stay with JDM :'( but my friend told me to look at a VW bora 4motion which is cheaper than EP3R/DC5R has the same amount of power, more torque and AWD. I have to say the look of the bora isnt as appealing as the Hondas, but u can make them look quite good

[e240]

Never had a problem...Can potter around quietly at low rpms when needed and when you want to take it on boil, just keep the revs up.
I think the issue is that alot of people are "old school" - where cars don't rev past 5~6K and are uncomfortable taking the car up till 8K/9K rpm.

Infact, while you don't really have the push in seat feeling, the rush of speed at 8K rpm on a backroad can be very very exhilarating...

[curtis265]

If the car's merely transport for you, perhaps you should consider something cheaper than a type-R, perhaps even something light and easy. You're not cop bait compared to a commodore driver, or a silvia/skyline/wrx/evo driver, unless you get yourself noticed.

By dropping 2 gears to overtake, you'll fly past! Is that really what overtaking is? You're bound to exceed the speed limit accelerating lke that in any car!

If you're scared of being called a ricer, then honda simply isn't for you. Ricer is a very overused term, and for most, it's what you call something when you dislike it...

oh, and test drive it first, a 'lack of torque' is very subjective, reading alone won't help you decide.

[lsvtec]

a honda is good and petrol, looks good and also goes good.

[grifty]

a honda is good and petrol, looks good and also goes good.

except for uphills lol

[e240]

except for uphills lol

Not if you keep the entry speed up..LOL

[JohnO]

mate be realistic do you really need vtec to overtake someone? i know i dont all its takes is just abit more throttling. power wise i can say its good enough for the street for a n/a engine you'll never use it to its limit unless your tracking the car alot. if your looking for power, should just get yourself a evo or sti lots of power/potential outof the box. i agree with you the feeling of boost is more thrilling, after driving an evo i just wanted one. but the choice had been made and im satisfied with the ep3 being my daily, its fuel efficient and i know the powers there when i need to let loose. i stick to the limit majority of the time to save money on fuel and possibly getting fined! got a liberty tuned by sti sitting at home and occasionally take that out so got the best of both worlds.

if you wanna go fast and feeling the rush i suggest you get a bike.

[PeppeX]

Thank you all for constructive comments

I think my heart is kinda split now cos i think theres something i like about every car

EP3R its unique and its rare. Dislike it cos of the gear knob and price

DC5R looks more aggressive than the EP3R, price is pretty good. Dislike it cos its kinda ricer and ppl look down at u when u drive one

VW Bora 4motion it has AWD, VR6 sounds amazing, sunroof, leather, CHEAP, not cop bait! Dislike it cos its Euro, dont look as good as the Hondas

[anzai]

EP3R its unique and its rare.

mate i see at least two ep3's a day everywhere i drive now.

they're the new ek. everyone has it now. not fun anymore.

[mnc]

Don't forget that when you overtake you must stay within the speed limit. hehe.

[JohnO]

euro styling on luxury cars look good. there was once a time when it was rare to see an ep3 on the road now its having a fd2r being the rarest of them all. who cares what others think of you? if you dont want to be called a ricer or get that look of pity, why not go luxurry bimmer benz or audi! then when people look at you you could atleast feel better about yourself in rolling in one of these...

as for dc5r and ep3 it depends what you like a coupe or a hatchback...it was too common to see a dc5 so i went and bought a ep3 early this year. have you even driven an ep3 the gearing is great, made for track,better control good for quick decisions, you get so much space in the car/secret compartments everywhere mate. price is roughly the same for both cars.

everything is cop bait its all about the revenue buddy greedy pigs just cant get enough of it.

[Cavebob]

you'd be surprised at how much pull u get from around the 3.5k range. I would call that the overtaking zone, 5.4k and up (vtec) I would call the trash the crap outta them zone. I do most of my over taking at 3.5k. That throw back in your seat feeling all comes down to yourself as well and how sensitive you are to acceleration. Keep in mind that engines are all relative. At the end of the day, if u ignore the numbers next to the lines, redline is redline, 1/4 revs is 1/4 revs.

[euromandeluxe]

IMO you're wasting your time making a thread like this. this is a honda board after all. :P

get out there, test drive the cars you're tossing up between, see which ones feel 'fun' and 'practical' in real world driving conditions, then make judgement. personally, i kind of like having a peaky powerband (but that doesn't mean i'm not considering FI for the future :) )

[Premature Vtec]

Dislike it cos of the gear knob and price


You can always change the gearknob ......... You sound like a nissan driver

[andiiso]

y not try the Integra Type S ? .. nice n comfy, doesnt need to be stomped on to overtake or gain a lil torque .. sunroof, looks nice as standard etc etc .. and also debatable to say that its possibly faster then the Integra Type R on the straight depending on driver (slightly different setup in power n torque wise, more "luxury drive" in terms of powerband etc then the Type R) and also on paper the Type S has more power.

[Zilli]

damn fanboys... ffs why does everyone here get so damned defensive so quickly... yes we all love Honda's, thats why we are here, but the bloke is asking for real world opinions, not for a bunch of kids with their backs to the wall screaming Honda for Life...

Mate, your best bet is to get a nice solid 1hr drive of each car you are thinking about... i find with my DC2R these days it just sits in 5th, and it will comfortably do everything i ask of it, rarely needing to downshift.... i come into 90 degree corners at low speed in 3rd gear and cleanly pull away...

Are you thinking of towing anything at all, or do you envisage you will be carrying more than 2 people a lot of the time? if not (and it doesn't sound like it because you mentioned you want a toy) you will be fine!

The matter of "ricer" or people looking down on you, i don't have anything to say about that TBH, but if you are worried about hat, then maybe you need a spoon of cement to build your confidence... who gives a **** what anyone thinks?

[Menzy]

+1 for Zilli
"who gives a sh!t"

It seems like your speaking like you haven't behind the wheel of a honda.

Drive it!

[HondaPie]

ep3 its lighter then dc5 - only my 2 cents ;)

[dougie_504]

If you're gonna get all self-conscious and worried about what people think of you because of your daily driver's chassis then you're fudged either way.
Get a Honda, you're a ricer.
Get a commodore, you're a commowhore.
Get a Ferrari, and you may as well walk around with a $100 hanging out of your jock-strap and a window-shopper on each arm.
Get a hummer and you're compensating for a small penis.
So on...

Somebody willl dislike any car you buy mate. As for Hondas IMO there are two reasons why somebody will call you a ricer:
1. You have a bodykit to rival an old English wedding dress, twin 4" cannons to suit your twin-carb, 22" chromies with elastic band tyres, 3 separate retractable rear spoilers, etc.
2. You're 4-cylinder is actually faster, more economical and more reliable than whatever they're driving.


Just get a car that you like mate. Forget about 'lack of torque', a K20 has no trouble getting up the revs quickly.

[PeppeX]

mate i see at least two ep3's a day everywhere i drive now.

they're the new ek. everyone has it now. not fun anymore.

Umm u must be a lucky guy!

I actually saw one myself to! 2004 FL EP3R! So sexy, but it was a old man driving it... and he stalled it on a hill lol!


If you're gonna get all self-conscious and worried about what people think of you because of your daily driver's chassis then you're fudged either way.
Get a Honda, you're a ricer.
Get a commodore, you're a commowhore.
Get a Ferrari, and you may as well walk around with a $100 hanging out of your jock-strap and a window-shopper on each arm.
Get a hummer and you're compensating for a small penis.
So on...

Somebody willl dislike any car you buy mate. As for Hondas IMO there are two reasons why somebody will call you a ricer:
1. You have a bodykit to rival an old English wedding dress, twin 4" cannons to suit your twin-carb, 22" chromies with elastic band tyres, 3 separate retractable rear spoilers, etc.
2. You're 4-cylinder is actually faster, more economical and more reliable than whatever they're driving.


Just get a car that you like mate. Forget about 'lack of torque', a K20 has no trouble getting up the revs quickly.

Ur right, there will always be haters no matter what u get.

I think overall it will really depend on the price of the car and resell value. I got a feeling that a EP3R will be harder to resell than DC5R

[Zinyo]

school/uni holidays...pointless thread?? go and test drive see what you like. The moment you stop caring what anyone else thinks the better you'll enjoy it. Scared being called a ricer? harden up

[fish]

Like others mentioned go test drive one, i think you'll be suprised how they perform.
and type R with their short gear ratios makes it a joy to drive.

[V73C]

I haven't read all the post, but your comparing a EP3R with a commo ? so its not practical enough and has no torque. Maybe test drive one and see how you go. You drive a jazz so don't judge it too soon. Cos if a close ratio 6speed/LSD and a high revving engine with a brilliant chassis isn't doing it for you then i don't know what is.

[PeppeX]

I haven't read all the post, but your comparing a EP3R with a commo ? so its not practical enough and has no torque. Maybe test drive one and see how you go. You drive a jazz so don't judge it too soon. Cos if a close ratio 6speed/LSD and a high revving engine with a brilliant chassis isn't doing it for you then i don't know what is.

No i aint comparing it to a commo

I am comparing it to a VW bora 4motion

Maximum power 203.8 PS (201 bhp) (149.9 kW) @ 6200 rpm
Maximum torque 270.0 Nm (199 ft·lb) (27.5 kgm) @ 3200 rpm

I've been in my friends GTI MKV and i really like how u can just step on the gas and it will push u back into ur seat. I havent driven a type r, but i have been in a type s and VTEC was amazing.

[Killa From Manila]

l2 downshift

[Euro08Jaz]

Most cars should able to overtake easily, particularly the Honda you mentioned. And i personally think your more likely to get pulled over in a dogey commodore with a bit of work on it than a moderately worked DC5R

[EVLGTR]

LOL so much exaggeration to the title itself...

I drive a DC2R as my daily for almost 9 years, theyre (B-series) known to lack torque at low-end but ive never had any problems driving like a normal law abiding citizen

[RtN]

Yeh i've never needed needed to hit vtec to overtake someone lol. You won't need to unless your one of those people that like to go on the left lane and rip it past as many people.

[dougie_504]

For daily driving they're fine. If you're upset about it put a light weight fly in the box so you can get the revs up faster. They're supposed to be driven this way, it's 4 cylinders lol.

[ekay1]

Dude, just test drive it first, dont worry about what others think. As long as your happy, its all good. IMO, i reckon that hondas are a decent car for their price and they have potential. Go for whatever suits your needs!