i45, a threat to euro?

[tron07]

Do you think so??
I think its very tempting indeed....


First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata 2.0T brings turbo power to Main Street, America

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/07/sonatakorea0801opt.jpg

We've watched with a sense of awe as Hyundai has gone from a discount also-ran brand into a genuine industry powerhouse in startlingly short order. But we've also long suspected that its vehicles have gained so much ground by being among the best values in their respective segments – not because they've necessarily been the best vehicles to drive. The addition of the Genesis Coupe may have served notice that Hyundai isn't content to just be the industry's value leader (see Battle of the Sixes), but the keystone draw of most of the brand's offerings has remained their affordability. Which is not to suggest this is a bad thing – Hyundai's steroidal growth speaks to the inherent soundness of its strategy. But as enthusiasts, we've been waiting for the company to not only out-value, but to categorically outsmart and outplay its rivals. With introduction of the 2011 Sonata, Hyundai appears to have done exactly that.

We admit that we weren't sure whether the Sonata's outré styling would play in that most milquetoast of markets: the family sedan segment. When the sheet was pulled on the 2011 model, it was as if Hyundai had strolled into a Sunday morning prayer breakfast with Kathy Griffin on its arm – we didn't know exactly what was going to come of it, but we knew it was going to be fun to watch. Thankfully, the Sonata has proven to be far more than just a styling stunt. Packing big space, a rock-solid chassis, accomplished handling and unmatched power and fuel economy from its 2.4-liter four-cylinder engine, the Sonata has gained widespread acceptance and acclaim in a historically conservative slice of the market.

But while the normally aspirated sedan got our attention, the promised 2.0-liter turbocharged model had our enthusiast hearts bound up in anticipation. The specifications revealed at this spring's New York Auto Show were enough to have visions of a proper cut-rate sport sedan dancing in our heads: 274 horsepower and 269 pound-feet of torque plunked into a chassis that's among the very lightest in its class. So when Hyundai invited us to hop a plane to Seoul to sample their new force-fed family schlepper, we had our bag packed and were at the airport before you could say "pass the Kimchi."

The Sonata 2.0T's new Theta II engine is obviously the main attraction here, and it deserves top billing because it's loaded with meaningful tech. Hyundai has utilized costly bits like a twin-scroll turbo and an electric wastegate actuator, the latter of which precisely governs boost pressure to improve efficiency and trigger quicker exhaust catalyst light-off for reduced emissions. All-in, the package is good for a staggering 137 horsepower-per-liter – a figure that was reserved for motorsport use just a few years ago. To put that metric in proper perspective, the Theta II turbo positively obliterates its rivals in this category, from the 220-hp 2.0T Buick Regal (110 hp/liter) to the 263-hp Ford Fusion V6 (75.1/liter) and everything from Japan Inc. – regardless of their cylinder counts. And it does so while sipping regular fuel. Outsmart and outplay? Check.

Officials tell us that because the company chose to go with a four-cylinder-only lineup, the Sonata's engineers were able to optimize other components because they didn't have to cope with an optional V6 package's larger dimensions and mass. That sort of focus has resulted in a best-in-class power-to-weight ratio of 12.2 pounds per horsepower, a figure just .1 horses shy of Ford's lauded 2011 Mustang V6. Its closest in-class competitor is actually the similarly feathery Nissan Altima V6, which chimes in at a commendable 12.4. Naturally, light weight also pays dividends in fuel economy, so it should come as no surprise that the 2.0T is estimated to return 22 miles per gallon in the city and 34 out on the highway. That's just two mpg shy of the 2.4-liter on the urban cycle and one on the freeway, and both numbers are still well ahead of the competition. Those figures strike us as a small penalty for an extra 76 horses, and besides, the normally aspirated Sonatas we've driven have actually served up fuel economy numbers well above EPA estimates, and we wouldn't be surprised if the turbo manages the same trick.


http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/07/lead2hyundaisonata20tfd2011.jpg

But enough technical talk. How does it drive? Well, our time behind the wheel in Korea was extremely limited and conducted in 2.0T prototypes that didn't yet have their final calibrations dialed-in, so consider these observations to be tentative. We drove Limited-spec models (18-inch alloys, panoramic roof, dual exhausts) on Hyundai's Namyang high-speed banked oval as well as on a handling course, but didn't manage to score any time on the region's public roads, That's just as well, really, as they were traffic-choked to the point of eroding any hopes of actual dynamic assessment.

Like most direct-injection engines (including the naturally aspirated 2.4-liter in the base Sonata), the Theta II turbo doesn't make the most sonorous of noises at tickover, but inside, noise is well controlled in both volume and tone, no matter the speed. All 274 horses gallop in at a rather lofty 6,000 RPM, but the 269 lb-ft of torque pushes in at just 1,800 RPM and hangs out until 4,500 is showing on the tach, at which point the power begins to taper off. Burying the pedal while getting up to speed on the big 2.8-mile bowl, we not only observed strong acceleration that would seem to jibe with Hyundai's 0-60 mph estimate of 6.5 seconds, we also noted impressive high-speed stability at speeds in excess of 140 miles per hour.

Hyundai's Namyang proving grounds offers more than 45 miles of roads spread out over 34 different test tracks of all varieties, with 71 different types of surfaces. In other words, it's a massive facility – 408 acres of research and development, all in. Beyond the four-lane oval, we were limited to stints on a mid-speed handling course where we found ourselves in the engine's wheelhouse more often than not. Doing so was easy, and not just because Hyundai has fitted the same spoke-mounted paddle-shifters (right tab up, left tab down) used on the 2.4L SE to all turbo Sonatas. There's no Sport mode to cut down on the cog-swap time and nobody is going to confuse the A6LF2 six-speed auto for a quick-shifting dual-clutch unit, but Hyundai's Shiftronic tech is still a useful piece of kit. Left to its own devices, the all-new internally developed six-speed is a model of civility, easily a match of other gearboxes in the class.

Since suspension and steering tuning has yet to be signed off on, it would be imprudent to make sweeping judgments about handling. But so far, we like what we see. With so much power funneled through the front wheels, we were concerned that torque steer would be a real liability, but at least on the track's smooth surfaces, it wasn't a distraction. Even when we intentionally stomped on the gas in a haphazard fashion coming out of the corners to provoke the condition, we didn't notice an objectionable amount of torque steer from the MacPherson strut-suspended front end. Steering effort and feedback is still on the lighter side, but the same thing can be said for most of the Sonata's challengers.

Like the exterior, the cabin of the 2.0T is all but identical to that of the 2.4, which is to say that it offers straight-forward ergonomics, plenty of space and storage, and sadly, surprisingly hard and flat seats. If you're wondering what dining room chairs are doing stuck in a sport sedan, it's because Hyundai doesn't actually have truly athletic aspirations for the 2.0T– it views this model as a straight V6 replacement, not a performance entry. Yes, you will still be able to get the modestly improved dynamics in the 2.0T SE model (monotube shocks, 20 percent firmer springs, larger anti-roll bars and 18-inch performance rubber), but at the end of the day, Hyundai has elected to point the barrel of its bat at the meat of the market, not dish out a red in tooth and claw special that targets a few thousand enthusiasts.

From a business perspective, that's smart thinking, but it also leaves the door open for a more focused future performance variant – something that officials we spoke with refused to rule out. We think there's plenty here to work with: an astute chassis that can clearly handle high-horsepower applications, aggressive styling and a team of talented engineers that has already proven they know how to build a bona fide performance car. Still, the plain-Jane Sonata 2.4 is already at or near the top of the heap dynamically, so if you're getting the impression that the turbo is all soft and squidgy, you've got it wrong. In our brief drive, we noticed no unwelcome additions to the Sonata's dynamic portfolio, so there's really no reason to be disappointed – we've just been left wanting more.

While we'll withhold a firm verdict until we can get a production model back on U.S. soil, for the moment, the Sonata 2.0T appears to be an almost supernaturally accomplished entrant in the family sedan sweepstakes. Daring lines paired with unmatched power and freakishly impressive fuel economy has shown that the Korean automaker isn't afraid to innovate. The 2.0T may not yet be the affordable sport sedan of our dreams, but if Hyundai can deliver on its projected price point of under $25,000, it will add untouchable value to what's already shaping up to be a class-leading proposition. If the Sonata nosed ahead of its rivals when the 2.4 came on the market, this new 2.0T is poised to eclipse them completely. Outsmart and outplay indeed.

[onlykillzz]

and its a Hyundai........ good right up though sounds like it would be zippy

[aaronng]

Did I read it right that the 2.0L twin turbo puts out 274hp (204kW)?

[tony1234]

Sounds good.It'd go hard but it probably handles like crap.

[integral90]

Looks like a nice car, kind of between a Euro and an Audi A4! I'm with Tony; I seriously doubt it would outhandle the Euro if it's in the same segment - and I'm not sure I buy the 274hp...

[rayd]

that is one ugly mofo!

[aaronng]

that is one ugly mofo!

It reminds me of :
http://i.eprci.net/div-zero-house-1

The lines on the body try to make the car look like it is fast, even though it is at standstill.

[m3ntAL_l2]

lol it looked so good in the commercial on its side...

then i saw it on carsales and was like wooooaaah?!

[Type R Positive]

Well, to be perfectly honest, yes, it is a competitor.
We only get the 2.4l with 148kw / 250nm at the moment, don't know if we'll get the turbo.
The pricing is competative, and all the specs seem to hit the mark.
Will people consider it?

[CU2 Euro 09]

Well being a Hyundai it will be falling apart in less then 2 years. Maybe a competitor, but no chance

[buddah51au]

If you read the road tests journalists are complaining about steering rack rattles, harsh suspension & other NVH issues, as well as poor performance under 4000rpm. Add to that it's a Hyundai so no thankyou

[tron07]

If you read the road tests journalists are complaining about steering rack rattles, harsh suspension & other NVH issues, as well as poor performance under 4000rpm. Add to that it's a Hyundai so no thankyou

I think the performance issue is with the 2.4 version... not the 2.0T. They might come out with a sport version, equivelant to a TypeR in the future.

[blabla]

Herd a few reviews saying its like the forgotten sonata the euro mazda 6 and the suzuki kizashi have been said to better vehicles all around

[biee2]

to be honest i think even if it was a good car (not saying its a crap car or anything), i reckon not many people are interested in hyundai's.

[euro1603]

I'm sure we have all seen this new hyundai ad like a million times during the world cup coverage, yes i agree that hyundai has gone a long way in terms of styling and brand name, never have owned one so can't comment on quality and performance but i don't think its a threat to to the likes of honda euro mazda 6 and even the new suzuki, at the end of the day its still a hyundai.. i know that car designers of all makes copy each other but it seems like hyundai don't know how to do it discretely i mean look at the front, its peugeot headlights with honda city front grill, those side body lines running along the door handles are straight from an e class, as for the rear its a lexus is250... yes i mean the car features and overall may even stack up better then its rivals but its still a hyundai for now...

[antony]

I looked at one before buying my Euro,but thought it looked fugly,the interior plastics felt cheap,and its a Hyundai.
Would have been a downgrade from a VW.

The local reviews have not been all that good either.

[Type R Positive]

to be honest i think even if it was a good car (not saying its a crap car or anything), i reckon not many people are interested in hyundai's.times seem to be changing. Look at i30 for example.

[buddah51au]

There is no doubt Hyundai's have come a long way over the years, but the I45 is still not up with the leaders in their class. They don't compare with the Euro, Mazda 6 or Liberty, more like opposition for the Camry.

[tron07]

Herd a few reviews saying its like the forgotten sonata the euro mazda 6 and the suzuki kizashi have been said to better vehicles all around

I wouldnt buy either a Hyundai or Kizashi now if I were to get a car... but I wouldnt write off hyundai as they are improving heaps in the near future.

[denot]

There is no doubt Hyundai's have come a long way over the years, but the I45 is still not up with the leaders in their class. They don't compare with the Euro, Mazda 6 or Liberty, more like opposition for the Camry.

Yo mate! What about Santa Fe? :p

[buddah51au]

A Santa Fe would be hi on my list in that class of vehicle providing you were prepared to update every 5 years or so. The new diesel with 6 speed auto gets good reviews. My only major concern is that the 6 speed auto is a sealed unit meaning it can't be serviced. That has to mean long term problems in that area.

[raffyboy]

Did I read it right that the 2.0L twin turbo puts out 274hp (204kW)?

Please confirm cause this is going to be WOW!

[raffyboy]

THis is going to be interesting - TBH i havent not owned a hyundai before so I dont know what to expect - the only knowledge i have with Hyundai is that they are crap cars and thats pretty much it - Also sis inlaw bought a getz and for me its not too bad but yes you can tell that it is cheap as - just looking at the interior and engine bay

[denot]

LOL... where's the 200++kw comes from? Well the current one doesnt have turbo at all...

Prices: $29,490 (Active manual); $30,990 (Active auto); $34,490 (Elite auto); $37,990 (Premium auto); $450 (metallic paint)
On sale: May 24
Engine: 2.4-litre, transverse, 16-valve, DOHC 4-cylinder
Power: 148kW @ 6300rpm
Torque: 250Nm @ 4250rpm
Transmission: 6-speed manual (Active only), 6-speed auto
Brakes: 300/284mm ventilated discs
Dimensions (mm): 4820 (l), 1835 (w), 1470 (h), 2795 (wheelbase), 140 (clearance)
Kerb weight: 1506kg (man), 1528kg (auto)
Suspension: McPherson struts (front), multi-link (rear)
Safety: 6 airbags, active front headrests, stability control, ABS, hill start assist
Wheels: 16-inch alloys (Active), 17 (Elite), 18 (Premium), full-size spare
Economy: 8L/100km (man), 7.9 (auto)
CO2: 191g/km (man), 188 (auto)
Fuel tank: 70 litres

[djpro1]

times seem to be changing. Look at i30 for example.

yeh times are changing. but the i30 is a different class to the euro. i45 is aimed at the mid market family car and being a cheaper substitute for them supposedly without compromising looks and handling~

All cars have problems, for the CU2, its been the auto pinging and a whole lot more we haven't even come across yet. Don't judge a car by its brand! All cars run into problems eventually

[Type R Positive]

LOL... where's the 200++kw comes from? Well the current one doesnt have turbo at all...
read the reviews Denot. They got a 2.0 turbo model too!

[denot]

read the reviews Denot. They got a 2.0 turbo model too!

Next year that is mate :) not this year...

[Type R Positive]

yeh times are changing. but the i30 is a different class to the euro. i45 is aimed at the mid market family car and being a cheaper substitute for them supposedly without compromising looks and handling~ I think you missed my point completely......

[Type R Positive]

Next year that is mate :) not this year...
Supposedly. Will be interesting to see if they actually release it here. We still waiting for the Euro diesel too!

[aaronng]

LOL... where's the 200++kw comes from? Well the current one doesnt have turbo at all...

US gets 2.0 twin turbo. We get 2.4 NA.

[denot]

Supposedly. Will be interesting to see if they actually release it here. We still waiting for the Euro diesel too!

Honda wont even release CRV diesel (the last 3 compact SUV that hasnt offered one in AUS), I dont think they will release any other Euro model here

[tony1234]

US gets 2.0 twin turbo. We get 2.4 NA.

Typical.

[minircc]

i45, a threat to euro?
you'd get biased opinions in this forum.. but are you serious.. LOL

[Lukey]

Well being a Hyundai it will be falling apart in less then 2 years. Maybe a competitor, but no chance

your an idiot.


times seem to be changing. Look at i30 for example.

indeed, i30's are fantasic cars!


Don't judge a car by its brand! All cars run into problems eventually

:thumbsup:

[aaronng]

indeed, i30's are fantasic cars!

I rented an i30. Was not impressed. Very rough engine, an auto gearbox that could not decide what gear it wanted to be in and it was very wobbly at freeway speeds. Preferred the base corolla hatch to be honest.

[evolution]

Guys, we are Honda enthusiasts that look for certain aspects in a car ie handling, looks, power(well to a certain extent). In the end we are a minority, most other ppl look at stuff like "ooooo it's shiny" and "wow it's got a lot of buttons" and tend to look past other things. At the end of the day if it is priced right, looks ok, drives ok, full of gadgets, I beleive it will sell well and will be a compeditor against the Euro.

I believe the new KIA Optima, which is based on the same platform as the i45, would be more of a threat if it goes as well as it looks.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/63705/2011-kia-optima-coming-to-australia/

http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/AUS2010040140701_ALT-625x415.jpg

http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/AUS2010040120757_ALT-625x462.jpg

[Lukey]

I rented an i30. Was not impressed. Very rough engine, an auto gearbox that could not decide what gear it wanted to be in and it was very wobbly at freeway speeds. Preferred the base corolla hatch to be honest.

was it diesel or petrol?

i had to do a fuel comsumption test on a diesel (manual) one at work (fill up, drive 50km one way, turn around and drive 50km back, fill up again) it was nice and quiet and felt very sturdy on the freeway doing 110km/h. the gearbox is so nice and smooth

[aaronng]

was it diesel or petrol?

i had to do a fuel comsumption test on a diesel (manual) one at work (fill up, drive 50km one way, turn around and drive 50km back, fill up again) it was nice and quiet and felt very sturdy on the freeway doing 110km/h. the gearbox is so nice and smooth

It was the petrol version. Picked it up at Melb Airport and then did the freeway at 100 km/h into the city. Have done the same thing with the Aurion, Falcon XR6, Camry, Corolla and Yaris. Worst was the i30, Yaris and Falcon XR6. The XR6 was planted but the gear ratios were weird and the car felt huge for some reason (I drive a commodore daily, so the falcon is not much bigger than my own car. Must be the way the bonnet slopes down).

[antony]

That new Kia Optima looks hideous IMHO.

[CU2 Euro 09]

your an idiot.



indeed, i30's are fantasic cars!



:thumbsup:

Lukey, The post is about the car, if you can't keep on topic then don't post. Hyundai's are at the lower end of the market for build quality. They don't compare to Honda.

[tron07]

Guys, we are Honda enthusiasts that look for certain aspects in a car ie handling, looks, power(well to a certain extent). In the end we are a minority, most other ppl look at stuff like "ooooo it's shiny" and "wow it's got a lot of buttons" and tend to look past other things. At the end of the day if it is priced right, looks ok, drives ok, full of gadgets, I beleive it will sell well and will be a compeditor against the Euro.

I believe the new KIA Optima, which is based on the same platform as the i45, would be more of a threat if it goes as well as it looks.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/63705/2011-kia-optima-coming-to-australia/

http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/AUS2010040140701_ALT-625x415.jpg

http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/AUS2010040120757_ALT-625x462.jpg

Kia looks too cluttered... I think i45 looks nicer and classier.

[tron07]

Lukey, The post is about the car, if you can't keep on topic then don't post. Hyundai's are at the lower end of the market for build quality. They don't compare to Honda.

Thats the same thing they say about Jap cars previously... now their quality is heaps better then some european cars. I think Hyundai's will improve and will be a threat, just a matter of time.

[burak213]

Do you think so??
I think its very tempting indeed....


First Drive: 2011 Hyundai Sonata 2.0T brings turbo power to Main Street, America

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/07/sonatakorea0801opt.jpg


http://www.carandmotorsports.com/articles/images/2009-Mercedes-CLS-63.jpg

[MikesVtec]

Lol! Spot on

I don't mind how the i45 looks. It's on par with the current Nissan Maxima. Nothing beats the Maxima for value in the segment in reality. The Euro still did it for me though, its handling, beastly yet sophisticated looks and the H badge.

[zubin]

I have owned 2 accord euros (CL9s) and recently bought a Hyundai ix35. The quality of the Hyundai is as good as both the euros. The interior and exterior etc is terrific. I've only owned it for less than a month - but the fact that you get a 5 year unlimited KM warranty and my dealer added 3 more years to that gives me confidence in their quality.

I do love and miss my Euros - but the ix35 is a great car.

If I was going to buy another sedan today, i would have considered the i45. I think it looks better than the Euro and Mazda6 - but yes, the reviews have not been too good.

[sk3103]

I had a chance to drive the i45 (while doing a photoshoot), and the engine is pretty ordinary. Not as smooth as Honda's nor refined. I will go for the Honda.

[antony]

I think the Euro is the mid sedan benchmark,and the rest have a bit of catching up to do.

I think the all new 2011 VW Jetta will be a serious threat next year though...

[Type R Positive]

I think the Euro is the mid sedan benchmark,and the rest have a bit of catching up to do.
It's not a mid sedan any more. It's just as big as a falcodore. And the benchmark will never be Japanese.

[praja6]

It's not a mid sedan any more. It's just as big as a falcodore. And the benchmark will never be Japanese.

Remember Type R in USA and Canada our Euro Cu2 is marketing with the name as Accura TSX, which is same as luxuary line of Lexus from Toyota. Over there they compare the TSX(our Euro)with AUdi A4, BMW 3 series and Mercedes C class...

[Type R Positive]

You just proved my point Raja! The benchmark will never be Japanese!

[cbol55]

You just proved my point Raja! The benchmark will never be Japanese!

I agree to a point...firstly never say never. Japanese cars have gone from being perceived as absolute rubbish to a position similar to where the koreans are now . making excellent copies without much innovation but good manufacturing quality using less than top quality material....now to a quality of build and material that is the best for its price...ie for the target market and with as much innovation as the europeans these days ..things change....but more importantly depends on what the "parameters" of the benchmark are...because if money for purchase, service, parts and maintenance are no object then one car would be the benchmark..whereas if those ecomomic factors have weight in determining best than the result could be a different benchmark. For example RACV and others often complile cost of ownership tables in each category where the best car in equipment and performance is the least desirable to own in a practical sense. Having said all that I bought the cl9 because it ticked the most boxes for me in my economic and practical needs.

[Type R Positive]

Having said all that I bought the cl9 because it ticked the most boxes for me in my economic and practical needs.So did we all...... :)

[tron07]

Remember Type R in USA and Canada our Euro Cu2 is marketing with the name as Accura TSX, which is same as luxuary line of Lexus from Toyota. Over there they compare the TSX(our Euro)with AUdi A4, BMW 3 series and Mercedes C class...

In US M3 is less then USD$80k, the 25aniversary limited edition mattle version M3 is price below $80k. Here the normal M3 is already $180k.
Big price difference....

[[[d a n n y]]]

the jetta is a higherclass car isnt it?
the euro is a good car
but the i45 is a damn good car as well
i dunno about the australian versions
but in korea they sell like hot cakes

[tron07]

];2805425']the jetta is a higherclass car isnt it?
the euro is a good car
but the i45 is a damn good car as well
i dunno about the australian versions
but in korea they sell like hot cakes

the horror stories I heard of VW put me off...

In Korean its probably a whole lot cheaper, no import tax/etc hence they sell like hotcakes. I have a few korean friends here, and they stay away from Koreans as well and go for japs, but not for the quality but more for the sake of the badge/prestige. lol...

[TypeG]

Come on.... you are comparing one of the best Honda with a ..... Hyundai
Not a chance.. and it costs... $43k... why not get a Euro then LOL or get yourself a second hand C class or 3 series.. OMG..... and some stupid aussie still buy it LOL

[TypeG]

and true... Korean will never get a Hyundai so you should know why
it falls apart after the warranty

[antony]

[QUOTE=tron07;2805514]the horror stories I heard of VW put me off...

I actually had a 2007 Jetta for 3 years before the Euro,and it was outstanding.
They both have plusses and minuses,but it beats the Euro in rear legroom,boot space,and the amount of toys for the money.

The Euro is better looking,but I think both are good looking inside and out,dealers are probably better with Honda,and hopefully build quality is better.

But I would consider VW again...

[Nairda]

The new Kia lines look promising. They look like good cars, seem to listen to the european market and improved their styling. Not to mention we have given korean car companies many years to get their stuff right. Hopefully they have learned a lot and they're not as flakey as they once were but....its a 20K investment...not sure i would want to bet 20K on a shoddy history (Xcel's of old).

But although the new kia cars are really good looking, and hyundai also stepping up their game, i dont think they're on the same level as Honda...when you buy honda there is a premium of quality you pay, the automotive history of honda has been legendary especially in terms of reliability.

Also the Euro has kept up quite a reputation for being the best...iono midsized or mid luxury car whatever you want to call it, but it has won many awards, won many "car of the year" titles...Until korean car companies put as much passion, care and precision as Honda and toyota, i cant say for sure it will steal any customers from the Euro market.

[SPQR]

lol! To buy a VW in Darwin, you have to go to the only Honda dealer in Darwin.

[Lukey]

Lukey, The post is about the car, if you can't keep on topic then don't post. Hyundai's are at the lower end of the market for build quality. They don't compare to Honda.

and im saying ur genrealising as the new hyundais are top notch quality

[praja6]

My neighbour, they are elder couple in their early 70s, they got a hyundai Elantra. They got the car since brand new for the past 6years. They have no problem at all and they are happy with it. I never drive Hyundai, but the quality may be good now...Their warranty is much better than Honda,
Don't forget Mazda is also a good car. direct competion for our Accord EUro is Mazda 6.

[ultimatekenz]

I've had a few experiences with hyundais and they've definitely improved a lot lately especially with their style. Parents had a brand new sonata about 7+years ago which was alright until all the electricals shat itself. I've hired a santa fe about 4-5 years ago and i thought that was a decent car. I quite like their new range.

[[[d a n n y]]]

the horror stories I heard of VW put me off...

In Korean its probably a whole lot cheaper, no import tax/etc hence they sell like hotcakes. I have a few korean friends here, and they stay away from Koreans as well and go for japs, but not for the quality but more for the sake of the badge/prestige. lol...

that is quite trute it's all about the badge.
for my self i wont be getting a hyundai except for 1 if they do decide to bring the genesis coupe down here wth a V8
I45 a car that is trying to step away from the old sonata badge and image.
as for me i probably wont be getting a new model honda either. the quality is getting worse with honda (since they dont make it in japan no more)
our odyssey has had it's fair share of warranty work done. nothing major but just interor trim rattles and bits falling off etc maybe it's just my luck
but our previous odyssey has had the same issues as well

[praja6]

as for me i probably wont be getting a new model honda either. the quality is getting worse with honda (since they dont make it in japan no more)
our odyssey has had it's fair share of warranty work done. nothing major but just interor trim rattles and bits falling off etc maybe it's just my luck
but our previous odyssey has had the same issues as well[/QUOTE]

Mate, the one made in Thailand are the big accord, CRV and civic, the Accord EUro still made in Japan and i would say the quality is still good compare with Thailand one....

[[[d a n n y]]]

as for me i probably wont be getting a new model honda either. the quality is getting worse with honda (since they dont make it in japan no more)
our odyssey has had it's fair share of warranty work done. nothing major but just interor trim rattles and bits falling off etc maybe it's just my luck
but our previous odyssey has had the same issues as well

Mate, the one made in Thailand are the big accord, CRV and civic, the Accord EUro still made in Japan and i would say the quality is still good compare with Thailand one....[/QUOTE]

well thats a good thing to hear. least the accord is safe.
our odyssey is getting worse and worse
and it's only a 07 model

[Irving]

I hired a Sonata V6 (previous model) in the US and had it for close to 1 month. Took it up to Mt St Helen and did lots of driving on scenic N American roads. Travelled over 2500 miles.

It was absolutely brilliant to drive. Nice handling and nice ride. A bit lacking in power but left me with a grin on my face.... Pulled into a Gas station (petrol station) and a lady at the servo drummed up a conversation asking how I found the Sonata. Said she had one and absolutely loved it....


I have just returned from the UK where I hired a VW Golf TDI (only had 1500 mile on the clock). Took it up to Scotland and travelled a total of 3500 miles. Nice car, plenty of space for 4 adults with luggage. Nice acceleration and handling. Nicely torqued engine, cars pulls from idle speed in just about any gear. Being a Diesel, the economy was outstanding. However, I did hear that dreaded PCS from the engine and was able to decipher it over the normal diesel rattle. So, is PCS the norm for getting more power????

Having extensively driven many other cars during my travels, there is little doubt that the Euro is a class leader (for the Jap and Korean brigade) but does it come close to the Germans?

Well, my brother used to swear by Honda!!!!! He had three of them (Integra and two Preludes).
He then traded up to BMW, he has two of them at home (325 and a X5). Won’t go back.

Look, the Euro is a good car for the price. If only the Mob supporting it got their act together and properly fixed the known PCS issue, it could then be considered a great car because it ticks almost all the other boxes.

[buddah51au]

Here is an interesting comparison between the I45, Mazda 6, VW Jetta & the Suzuki Kizashi. As one would expect the 6 comes out in front in this comparison & the Hyundai last. Just a pity the CU2 wasn't included, but we all know the CU2 beat the 6 for car of the year. Therefore the CU2 is still the leader in this market segment.

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=69705

[antony]

The suprising thing for me in that comparison was that the Jetta and Mazda actually tied for fitst place,which was good for the Jetta,as its allready a 4 and a half year old car on the market.

Shoes how good it was when launched in February 2006...

[buddah51au]

VW have generally produced reasonable to good cars although they do have problems with trims distorting / cracking with age. I think you could blame our hot climate for that. The thing that doesn't make sense to me is the Jetta is a much smaller car being a sedan version of the Golf which in reality puts it in a different market segment. To me it belongs in the Mazda 3, Civic, Ford Focus segment of the market as those cars are of a similar size.

[raffyboy]

Honda will be honda hyundai will hyundai no threat depends on peoples taste and lets say budget

[Rudy]

honda need to start making lighter cars again... the CU2 weighs as much as a standard accord...shame.

[Irving]

Hyundai have come a long way. Take a look at the new iForm....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX577KxMFhw&NR=1

[denot]

^^^ LOL! A new full bodykit for Mazda 3!!! Oh hang on... did you say its a Hyundai?

[Type R Positive]

honda need to start making lighter cars again... the CU2 weighs as much as a standard accord...shame.
Yeah, but that is directly related to the high tensile steel safety shell.
It's a heavier car, but my fuel usage is heaps less than my old cl9. Go figure....

[Irving]

The mere fact that die hard Honda fans are contemplating comparing Honda to Hyundai would have been unthinkable a few years ago. Does this show how much Honda have fallen in status or does it show a narrowing by the Korean competition?

My personal experience with the Mob at Honda Australia leaves me with very little/no confidence in them. I would surmise them as a bunch of Smart Alec's who play with words to shrug their responsibilities under the Warranty as stated by the Laws of this Land.

The future for these guys is bleak. While they sit around in their offices, drinking coffee and getting paid to shrug off their responsibilities, the competition is catching up. In the mean time this Mob have done their utmost to piss of the very customers who have bought their products. The extent of dissatisfaction is extreme to the point many will go to extreme lengths to publicize their horror stories on the www. Through this negative publicity, enough has been done to instill doubt about the product. This doubt is not superficial but deep in the phychi of the consumer.

The burning question these guys need to ask themselves is that are they likely to have a job in a few years?

[denot]

The mere fact that die hard Honda fans are contemplating comparing Honda to Hyundai would have been unthinkable a few years ago. Does this show how much Honda have fallen in status or does it show a narrowing by the Korean competition?

My personal experience with the Mob at Honda Australia leaves me with very little/no confidence in them. I would surmise them as a bunch of Smart Alec's who play with words to shrug their responsibilities under the Warranty as stated by the Laws of this Land.

The future for these guys is bleak. While they sit around in their offices, drinking coffee and getting paid to shrug off their responsibilities, the competition is catching up. In the mean time this Mob have done their utmost to piss of the very customers who have bought their products. The extent of dissatisfaction is extreme to the point many will go to extreme lengths to publicize their horror stories on the www. Through this negative publicity, enough has been done to instill doubt about the product. This doubt is not superficial but deep in the phychi of the consumer.

The burning question these guys need to ask themselves is that are they likely to have a job in a few years?

I think its the same as comparing Hyundai/Kia to Toyota/Mazda. They have been compared in several occasion (i30 even beat Mazda3) and yet... we still see Mazda and Toyota around... The result will be the same as Honda. Its not Honda (and Toyota/Mazda/etc) drawback... its Korean car maker catching up with the rest. same as Apple vs Microsoft 10 years ago and compare to them now...

[Type R Positive]

The mere fact that die hard Honda fans are contemplating comparing Honda to Hyundai would have been unthinkable a few years ago. Does this show how much Honda have fallen in status or does it show a narrowing by the Korean competition?

My personal experience with the Mob at Honda Australia leaves me with very little/no confidence in them. I would surmise them as a bunch of Smart Alec's who play with words to shrug their responsibilities under the Warranty as stated by the Laws of this Land.

The future for these guys is bleak. While they sit around in their offices, drinking coffee and getting paid to shrug off their responsibilities, the competition is catching up. In the mean time this Mob have done their utmost to piss of the very customers who have bought their products. The extent of dissatisfaction is extreme to the point many will go to extreme lengths to publicize their horror stories on the www. Through this negative publicity, enough has been done to instill doubt about the product. This doubt is not superficial but deep in the phychi of the consumer.

The burning question these guys need to ask themselves is that are they likely to have a job in a few years?if everybody went on your reasoning, no one would ever buy a holden or ford.....

[Irving]

if everybody went on your reasoning, no one would ever buy a holden or ford.....

10 years ago they were compairing Honda with BMW. Now you guys are compairing Honda with Hyundai. O' how the mighty have fallen....

[buddah51au]

Some people might compare but to me that tells me a lot about their knowledge when it comes to cars. The I45 is not in the same league as the Euro, 6, or Liberty, those 3 vehicles are definitely the top 3 cars in their class. But if you want to cross shop the I45 with the Camry or Epica that's another story.

Just ask Denot who traded his CU2 for a C200 Merc (I think that is the model he got) & he has said the CU2 is more of a drivers car, while the merc has more toys & is built for comfort.

[praja6]

10 years ago they were compairing Honda with BMW. Now you guys are compairing Honda with Hyundai. O' how the mighty have fallen....

In USA and Canada the Accord Euro is called Accura TSX and over there they still compare the TSX with Merc C class, BMW 3 series and Lexus IS250...Depends on Country to Country.

[Irving]

In USA and Canada the Accord Euro is called Accura TSX and over there they still compare the TSX with Merc C class, BMW 3 series and Lexus IS250...Depends on Country to Country.

Well, I lived and worked in USA for 5 years. Speaking from experience, Acura is definitely not considered in the same class as BMW, Lexus or Merc....

More like, Acura, Infinity, Hyundai, Camry....

[praja6]

Well, I lived and worked in USA for 5 years. Speaking from experience, Acura is definitely not considered in the same class as BMW, Lexus or Merc....

More like, Acura, Infinity, Hyundai, Camry....

Ah ok, i never been to USA or Canada, but i am just telling it by the reviews..Seems like you are having lot of problems with your Euro, sorry to hear that and thats why you are having always negative opinion about Honda...For me i am happy with the car so far.

[chunsa]

Also to add to the fact the Acura TSX has more standard options than our Accord Euro too! Their Tech package sure beats our Sat Nav version.

Hyundai has improved and there's no doubt about that. However as a threat to the Euro? Still not yet!

Hyundai's primary focus is value for money and their target will probably be people looking to get the most bang for buck - not really focus on brand/driver's car etc.

If I remember correctly, the i45 was in the movie Inception? Or was that some other Hyundai?

[CU2 Euro 09]

Also to add to the fact the Acura TSX has more standard options than our Accord Euro too! Their Tech package sure beats our Sat Nav version.

Hyundai has improved and there's no doubt about that. However as a threat to the Euro? Still not yet!

Hyundai's primary focus is value for money and their target will probably be people looking to get the most bang for buck - not really focus on brand/driver's car etc.

If I remember correctly, the i45 was in the movie Inception? Or was that some other Hyundai?


Yeah I thought I saw it in the movie too. Didn't look too bad. Definitely had a Hyundai badge...

[antony]

I have lived in the US as well,and think the Acura TSX gets cross shopped with the Audi A4,definatly NOT the Camry.
The normal daggy Accord and the Camry are arch rivals in US,Canada,and Mexico.

[SPQR]

Yeah I thought I saw it in the movie too. Didn't look too bad. Definitely had a Hyundai badge...

The Hyundai in the movie "Inception" didn't look like an i45 (Sonata). I think it might have been the Genesis; which probably fits-in better with the idea of the movie: The begining of original thought: Genesis-Inception.

I could be wrong. It was a fast moving movie in parts (the car parts!) and I might have to see it again.

[Irving]

I have lived in the US as well,and think the Acura TSX gets cross shopped with the Audi A4,definatly NOT the Camry.
The normal daggy Accord and the Camry are arch rivals in US,Canada,and Mexico.

Well, I worked with a lot of guys in USA who bought new cars and the choice for "trouble free motoring" was to pick between Accord or Camry. Bear in mind that the Acura TSX is nothing more than a "rebadged" Accord Euro. Compaing to Audi A4 is a bit of a streach in terms of prestige.

[Irving]

Also to add to the fact the Acura TSX has more standard options than our Accord Euro too! Their Tech package sure beats our Sat Nav version.


What I fail to understand is why poeple pay $50k - $60k for a Euro when the base price is $35k????

Look, if you want a performance car for 60k, then why not buy a EVO or WRX?
The Euro sits nicely in the 35k price range and compaires favourable with similar vehicles in that price range. 50k - 60k is just over the top....

[Irving]

Another car which is a very worthy contender is the Ford Mondeo. If you travel in Europe, you will notice the popularity of the Mondoe over the Accord.

[yfin]

Bear in mind that the Acura TSX is nothing more than a "rebadged" Accord Euro

It is more than just the badge - there are quite a few differences.

[Irving]

It is more than just the badge - there are quite a few differences.

Yep, change the grill, badge and add a few gadgets. Then, hey presto, we have a "luxury brand" NO Sir, that just doesn't cut it with me....

[yfin]

Yep, change the grill, badge and add a few gadgets. Then, hey presto, we have a "luxury brand" NO Sir, that just doesn't cut it with me....

What about the gear ratios, optional V6 engine, different suspension, instrumentation, in 2006 there were variations to the intake and engine that we never saw, the list goes on.... Of course there are similarities but it is not just a rebadge and a different grill.

[Irving]

What about the gear ratios, optional V6 engine, different suspension, instrumentation, in 2006 there were variations to the intake and engine that we never saw, the list goes on.... Of course there are similarities but it is not just a rebadge and a different grill.

Yes, those extras are available in the Australian versions of the Accord. I don't think that would "qualify" it to be a "prestigious brand"

[aaronng]

Yes, those extras are available in the Australian versions of the Accord. I don't think that would "qualify" it to be a "prestigious brand"

Those extras are NOT on the Australian version of the Accord Euro.

[praja6]

What I fail to understand is why poeple pay $50k - $60k for a Euro when the base price is $35k????

Look, if you want a performance car for 60k, then why not buy a EVO or WRX?
The Euro sits nicely in the 35k price range and compaires favourable with similar vehicles in that price range. 50k - 60k is just over the top....

THey may pay 50-60k mark for the luxuary leather seats? I bought base model Euro under 35k drive away out from my pocket which is i am happy. If i am ready to spend 50-60k i would definately consider BMW 3 series or Merc C class...I doubt anyone here in this forum paid 50+ for an EUro and sure all of them paid around early to mid 40k range for luxuary Euro which is reasonable.

Camry is rrp price is close to Euro, however you can buy brand new camry altise with reverse camera, lip spoiler and 16inch alloy for 25k drive away easily....I wouldn't definately compare Euro with camry.

[Type R Positive]

What I fail to understand is why poeple pay $50k - $60k for a Euro when the base price is $35k????

Look, if you want a performance car for 60k, then why not buy a EVO or WRX?
The Euro sits nicely in the 35k price range and compaires favourable with similar vehicles in that price range. 50k - 60k is just over the top....
I couldn't have said it better myself! If I wanted to spend that kind of money, subaru liberty gt would have been it. It shits all over the Euro Lux......

[praja6]

Do you guys think Merc or BMW or Audi never comes with mechanical/electrical issues? Is that why they are more expensive... For me personally our EUro CU2 more looks like a luxuary car and drive like it as well..

[SPQR]

The Hyundai in the movie "Inception" didn't look like an i45 (Sonata). I think it might have been the Genesis; which probably fits-in better with the idea of the movie: The begining of original thought: Genesis-Inception.

I could be wrong. It was a fast moving movie in parts (the car parts!) and I might have to see it again.

Back on sort of topic; the Hyundai in the movie "Inception" (which I just saw again) is definitely not an i45 (Sonata). It is definitely a "Genesis" which comes with a 3.3V6 (192kW), a 3.8V6 (213kW) and soon a 4.6V8 (275kW).

In the movie, the words "Inception" and "Genesis" are mentioned within seconds of each other and in the same context in one of the early scenes of the movie: Obviously trying to plant an idea into viewers minds; reinforced by the actions scenes with the Hyundai Genesis: All lost on the Australian public as I don't think we will get the Genesis but it probably means something in the target American market.

[zubin]

Yep - definitely Genesis - there is a scene where you can read "GENES" on the back of the car (saw it yesterday - great movie)

[Irving]

Those extras are NOT on the Australian version of the Accord Euro.

The point here is that Accord/Accord Euro etc engine & transmission variations are too numerous to list here.
The Accord Euro in the UK has a smaller 2.2ltr engine and I even saw the Diesel version with the same Euro body.
Another version is being marketed as Acura TSX in USA. This is “re-badging”. I can’t explain it any more simply than that.

[Type R Positive]

The point here is that Accord/Accord Euro etc engine & transmission variations are too numerous to list here.
The Accord Euro in the UK has a smaller 2.2ltr engine and I even saw the Diesel version with the same Euro body.
Another version is being marketed as Acura TSX in USA. This is “re-badging”. I can’t explain it any more simply than that.
Re-badging is like the Nissan Tiida (Renault), Holden Rodeo (Isuzu), Pontiac GTO (Holden)....... they have litterally swapped badges.

You can hardly call Acura re-badging, just like Lexus (Toyota) and Infinity (Nissan), they are totally higher spec cars.

[Irving]

Re-badging is like the Nissan Tiida (Renault), Holden Rodeo (Isuzu), Pontiac GTO (Holden)....... they have litterally swapped badges.

You can hardly call Acura re-badging, just like Lexus (Toyota) and Infinity (Nissan), they are totally higher spec cars.

This may well be the case. However, they are essentially the same car with most of the "higher spec" options available to the lower end market. You are simply paying for the "pretend" prestige badge.
Not the same as a BMW, Merc or Audi.

[Type R Positive]

why? Because they use the same shell?

[Irving]

why? Because they use the same shell?

Below is the spec for the 2010 Acura TSX

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Spec_Glance.aspx?year=2010&make=Acura&model=TSX&trimid=-1

In it's basic format, it is the same as the Euro. Then add the "options".

[Irving]

Have a look through these pics and tell me that this is not a EURO. If still in doubt then take a look at the spec in my previous post.

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Model_Photos.aspx?year=2009&make=Acura&model=TSX&trimid=106982&familyid=&action=&picturetab=&pictureid=0

It's a EURO I tell you.....

[denot]

Acura is what Lexus is to Toyota...

[Irving]

Acura is what Lexus is to Toyota...

You can call it what you like. The bottom line is if it Walks like a Duck and Quacks like a Duck, it certainly ain't no Swan...:honda:

Anyway, how come if Acura is soooo prestigious, it is NOT marketted in Europe???? Co's only the D*** Yanks will buy it....LOL

[denot]

You can call it what you like. The bottom line is if it Walks like a Duck and Quacks like a Duck, it certainly ain't no Swan...:honda:

Anyway, how come if Acura is soooo prestigious, it is NOT marketted in Europe???? Co's only the D*** Yanks will buy it....LOL

It's just a question of marketing. Acura is the luxury line of Honda, just like Lexus is to Toyota, and Infiniti is to Nissan. In Europe they don't tend to split up the companies like how America has Ford, Mercury and Lincoln for example. In the UK a Ford is a Ford is a Ford. All that said weirdly they still have Lexus over there.

It all boils down to what they believe will be profitable to them. Each country and each market is different. Certainly in England where gas is $6 a gallon there may not be much of a market for the specific Acura cars they sell here. By British standards almost all the Acuras are too thirsty. They would likely be sold as Honda's with smaller engines.

Taken from: http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060913073937AA5gpTT

By the way they said they will launch Acura in Europe next year alongside the new NSX. but since they decide not to produce it, I'm not sure if they going to go ahead with Europe Acura

[denot]

According to Wikipedia:
"The TSX is badge engineered from the CL-series Accord (also known as the European Accord or JDM Accord) sold in Europe, Japan, Australia and New Zealand. The TSX initially had a restyled interior and different suspension tuning than the European Accord when it was introduced; however since 2008 the interior is now standardized for all three markets."

[Irving]

I just love that ad on TV for the Ford Territory, where the young lad covers his (dad's) car with paper to make it look like a Territory.

With the Acura TSX, It's the Badge and Grill. Just look at the specification, the same as the Euro.

[Nairda]

Let me give you guys something to think about.

Your car..your second largest investment after your house or business or whatever....or wife
Anyway you want to spend lets say 40K on a new car. Would you rather spend your 40k on something you know will give extraordinary return for your money, have good quality and will last for (i know someone before mentioned something about elantra) not just 6 years but will in fact drive for more than 15 years? Yes the car will be old and possibly a bomb by then but we are talking about value and return.

My experience: We migrated here in something like 1994. We bought our first car - Second hand Silverstone metallic Honda Civic ED3 Sedan. Made in 1990. I just got a new car (my dads CL9) and in the process of paying it off. but the car i drove before was the family heirloom ED3, that has gone through not just 2 but all 4 drivers in the family. All of us have driven it for years.

It is now 2010, the car is 20 years old (more like 20 and a half now) and although the starter motor needs replacing, burning oil due to age, it has done over 295,000kms.
It still drives, it still goes you can drive it for a while. The old faithful civic has seen better days, its been smashed by hail, hit by careless drivers, tranny has been thumped by speed humps, suspension has been abused with aggressive cornering, bumper has been hit on kerbs since its so low(bro lowered it when he drove it) but the heart of it all is a 20 year old civic that still runs and can get you to the shops.
I have seen rusted out 1970-1980 honda accords still being driven on the roads today.

Until you get that kind of feedback from people driving hyundai's or kia's im sorry - it just doesnt compare.

Sure honda's are plenty more expensive to buy, insure, maintain....but is it worth it?
well i don't think we would be on OzHonda if we didn't think so...

Honda cars have the stamina that most cars just dont have. They last and will keep going until you drive it into a wall...and after that probably and then some..
Im sure many of you have seen the top gear feature on the toyota hilux..honda is one of those companies who have kept that same old school attitude of making cars that just don't die.

Im also not saying that korean cars suck, they have improved a long shot from what they used to be..but imo
Hyundai has a long way to go before they restore peoples faith into buying one...or at least make good reliable cars until the generation of people who have bad experiences with them phase out.
I am one of those people who used to believe the only reason you would buy a korean car is cause you couldnt afford anything else. But now with the Kia's new Cerato Koup im not so sure.

[praja6]

Re-badging is like the Nissan Tiida (Renault), Holden Rodeo (Isuzu), Pontiac GTO (Holden)....... they have litterally swapped badges.

You can hardly call Acura re-badging, just like Lexus (Toyota) and Infinity (Nissan), they are totally higher spec cars.

Is it Accura TSX is a rebadging of Accord EUro or other way around, Honda Accord EUro is a rebadge of Accura TSX.. As you can see our Euro more looks like luxuary look, compare with normal accord. I think its other way around, Accord EUro is rebadge of Accura TSX..

[SPQR]

Is it Accura TSX is a rebadging of Accord EUro or other way around, Honda Accord EUro is a rebadge of Accura TSX.. As you can see our Euro more looks like luxuary look, compare with normal accord. I think its other way around, Accord EUro is rebadge of Accura TSX..

Absolutely not! The Accord Euro is the Accord in Japan and in Europe. The larger Accord we get here is the American Accord. The TSX is a rebadged Honda Accord (world version) which we call the Euro here and in New Zealand.

[denot]

The Thai Accord (THAICORD) we get here not even an Accord! It supposed to be called Honda Inspire!!!

[tron07]

What I fail to understand is why poeple pay $50k - $60k for a Euro when the base price is $35k????

Look, if you want a performance car for 60k, then why not buy a EVO or WRX?
The Euro sits nicely in the 35k price range and compaires favourable with similar vehicles in that price range. 50k - 60k is just over the top....

I recall that when I was buying the euro, the lux version was just 10k plus more then the based euro... so max also around 50k