Does anyone of you have LPG in your Honda?

[chincho]

Hello all,

I certainly have LPG in my Honda CRV, but I'm really annoyed:
Yes, LPG is the big hype for the masses. Unfortunately every manufacturer/installer forgets to tell us (at least they did to me) the risks of installing it in some (too many) cars. Of course they didn't forget to almost double the price of installation when the government decided to pitch in with financial help to do such conversions.
Anyway, my Honda CRV bought new in 2005 and converted in November 2007 (less han 3 years) is having serious problems. Started last month by getting very sluggish coming out of roundabouts and traffic lights. Backfires and now, specially in the morning, when it is still cold, just stalls 3 or 4 times. Beautiful. Took it to the installers: we've serviced the lpg system but there's an error in the computer we can't fix. something to do with too much gas going into the chambers. You have to take it to Honda. Ah ! here's the bill - $170. Took it to Honda. After leaving it there for a day and a half, they called me: The problem most surelly is the LPG that worn out valves and seals. Not our problem, we won't fix it even if you still have Honda warranty, they said. The manufacturer didn't have the balls to reply to my 2 emails and 1 phone call. The installer never told me I could take an extended warranty if something like this happened. So far, so good: I have a still very good shell of a car with a useless engine that will meet its maker soon. What to do ? Who to complain ? How can I get someone to fix the engine (I'm not paying !!!) knowing I didn't install LPG to wreck the car. Like I don't have a better place to waste my money. Any thoughts?
Thanks.

[bennjamin]

sorry but you installed LPG on a car that is otherwise not designed to run it. So , any issue down the line is not covered. So - that means YOU are paying to fix it no matter what.

Good luck , i suggest you vent your anger somewhere as there is no end to this. You must pay and fix it.

[chincho]

Thanks for your straight forwardness. About me paying will definitely be another issue, since for the 5 years I've been taking the car to the Honda Service, and never heard a no from them when I questioned them about puting LPG and after the LPG was installed and the several services done on the car. If it is Honda to pay or the LPG manufacturer or both, that is still to be seen. Also I still have a Honda extended warranty, so if we need a war to solve the issue, we'll have it for sure.
But, anyway, I'm curious to see if other Honda drivers have LPG in theirs and how is it behaving.
Regards.

[m3ntAL_l2]

prob best chance is get AusHonda to write a statement saying the LPG system or the installation has caused the issue/breakdown.. then u prob can sue the company?

Honda extended warranty isnt going to cover u for a non OEM modify caused issue

[pablos8]

/agree
You should have looked into the issues further before the installation.
YOU should have asked if its covered by warranty after conversion, what problems arise and if they're covered etc.

Don't think any amount of complaining will get you anywhere. This is your mistake and it will cost you money to fix it.

I guess you can take them to court or whatever actions you see fit but I think that it won't end well for you, probably better off just fixing it :(

[chincho]

pablos8, Is not quite like that, I think. I didn't install the LPg thinking that the engine would be wrecked in less than 3 years. Can you believe an engine that normally lasts 15-20 years has only lasted 2 +3 on LPG ? I don't think I made a mistake when I wanted to spend less money with fuel. My mistake was being so naive thinking that using LPG was the same as using petrol minus the price. If even the Government helps people to convert to LPG, why would I think that a certified, standardized LPG kit made specifically for the CRV would wear out a motor in less than 3 years? Wouldn't you be pretty annoyed if your car started to have serious problems if you used the cheapest petrol instead of the premium? Wouldn't you be looking for answers and why nobody ever cautioned you, even if you see thousands of people using it ? I think my frustration is valid and deserves a second look to see where the real problem lies. If the kit made for the car doesn't really work why is it my fault just because I chose to install it?
But what I really would like is to know other people in this forum taht have installed LPG in their cars and how are they behaving.....
Thanks for this healthy discussion.

[kccord]

Just my $0.02, my neighbor have a 1997 odyssey converted to LPG. F23A engine SOHC. 1.5 years and still kicking, although he did had to come back twice for something minor.

[ECU-MAN]

does your engine still run on petrol if so how well ?

your engine is built to run on unleaded thus not requiring lubricant on the valve seats, so LPG should be fine. if the engine for some reson has damaged valve seats you should have been runiing upper cylinder lube to prevent this. ( shouldnt need it )

its very unlikly your entire engine is damaged and would just require valve regrind and valve seat replace, repair, reseat.


LPG system requires a perfect ignition system otherwise you get some of the symptoms you described. Did they tell you the exact fault code that was in the engine ECU ?

[hitoriko]

Similar problem happened to my dad (its not a honda but hear me out)

My dad owns a 1975 HJ Holden GTS (before you ask yes its an absolute gem of a car and has been in my family since new and its all orginal - i still have the orginal engine in my shed)
Anyways my dad wanted to get a new engine and so he went to HMGEM engines and ordered a stock standard 253 V8 Suited for LPG use. After about 24 months he started having minor problems
took it back to our mechanic (who is also the LPG fitter and tuner) and had it checked, serviced and so forth - no problems found and the retune seemed to solve the problem - about 8months later we were coming back from albury picking up a car so we were towing another say 1.5ton (give or take) and the engine started struggling and then just cut out... we pulled over waited cranked it and she fired back up we thought it must ahve just been a blockage in the fuel line and we continued on our way, we got up to 100-120km and it started again. Again same thing. this happened 3 or 4 more times and by the time we got home it was happening any time the car had to idle.

Turned out that the heads provided for the car didn't have stainless valves (something we were told that it had and that was required for the LPG to work properly) HMGEM denied any fault and without proof that it was there wrong doing with recepits etc.. they didn't want to hear what we had to say, we even took the heads back to show them and they said we couldn't prove that these heads were from taht engine blah blah blah (this went on for about 6months) - after much anger and frustration and me being pissed off i took them to westpoint heads had them recoed and new stainless valves and a higher grade of stemseal fitted. Since then not one hiccup in the car.

My advice to you is the following:
- Get all recepits of work for fitting installing etc.. for the LPG system and everything that certifies that the system you ahve is to sui your car.
- If you ahve any emails where you've enquired to your honda dealer (or any others youve contacted about the matter) about fiitting of a LPG system
- Try and get names and dates of who you spoke to and when
- If on your service log recepits there should be work that was carried out and if you mentioned any LPG related servicing via the Honda dealer
All of these kinds of documents and info will help you pled your case to your dealer, the LPG manufacture and the fitter.

But i must stress if you didn't ask the questions " Will a LPG system affect my Honda warrenty" " Will model XXX for the CRV have any negitive effects on my engine" " have there been any problems with this system being fitted to my model of car" etc..etc..

Then you might be shit outta luck - being naive isn't an excuse and you'll get nowhere saying - i wasn't told, they didn't explain to me - unless YOU asked the questions and did your research.

[chincho]

ECU-MAN, despite all, the car still goes reasonably well, both on petrol and LPG. The major problem is cutting out several times when it's cold and the sluggishness when coming out of roundabouts and traffic lights. There's the eventual backfire when going from a stand still or just cutting out when arriving at said roundab. and traf. lights.
The Honda mechanics wrote in the statement the error code was DTC P0172 - fuel metering too rich, which was what the guy who serviced the LPG system told me.
The code error refers to 8 possible problems within the code. Could be one of them, several or all of them. Only by repalcing each part tey could see exactly which part(s) is damaged. And the 8 errors are:
-faulty O2/AF sensors
-faulty pressure regulator
-leaking fuel injectors
-faulty throttle position sensor
-faulty map sensor
-faulty catalitic converter

Also they measured the cylinder compression and saw it was low when cold:
compressions dry 130,150,150,150 cylinders 1-2-3-4 respectively
compressions wet 155,175,178,165 cylinders 1-2-3-4 respectively

Thanks for your input, Hitoriko. If you install a LPG kit, specially made for this car, complying to all rules and regulations for this type of manufacture, and after all que questions asked, how are you gonna imagine you'll have serious problems so early ? Understand that if I knew Honda motors were crap and/or my car was old and worn, I wouldn't make any fuss whatsoever, but with a 5 year old car, 100K Km driven and a less than 3 years LPG installed, I think som thing like this happening is outrageous.

[lzybum]

same thing happen to us,
stalls out of no where
backfires if too much accel is applied too quickly
slow as sh!t

so we just got rid of the lpg system and ran back on unleaded.

[chincho]

Lzybum, did you have to take it for repairs or something? What model car do you have ?

[lzybum]

it was on a mistu pajero.
kept taking it back to the installers to get it repaired,
they tell us its fine now
and its still fuked up when we're driving it
took it back and they took us for a drive in our car and nothing seems to happen when they drove it
so we got rid of it entirely.

[ECU-MAN]

I really don’t think you have any mechanical engine faults.

when running on LPG the Fuel Injector system is disabled so it won’t be that. Pretty much all you getting from the Honda system is Ignition. It appears to me the LPG power valve/Solenoid or control unit for LPG is faulty/ misadjusted or not setup correctly. so the Honda ECU will see a rich fuel mixture and freak out because it cannot resolve the issue by changing the fuel mixture itself.

what is ment to happen if you have this particular setup is, a box that will control the LPG power valve will monitor the O2 sensor and then adjust the LPG mixture accordingly. so you either have a bad LPG control unit, bad power valve solenoid, bad O2 sensor or bad setup/wirning.

Your car could have a non self adjustable power valve, it’s a valve you tune by hand and set it as a one off. ( this is more of the old skool setup for carby cars )

what you should do is follow the gas tube from the throttle body back to the gas converter and in between is a valve and it should have a solenoid and wires coming off it. that itself could be the issue. it controls your LPG mixture. sounds like its running to rich.

[chincho]

Thanks for that ECU-MAN. I really appreciate your input. By the looks of it, you may be a mechanic .... somewehre in Melbourne ?
I will follow your advice. If I have any problems finding that solenoid I have to go to the guys who installed the system, though I think they were just trying to wash their hands when I paid $170 for the car service and they still told me to go to Honda. I should go to another one, probably .....
By the way, 2 days ago I mixed with the petrol with one of those Total Fuel System Cleaner bottles from Nulon and let me tell you, I am very close to swear by it. The car is so much better you wouldn't believe. I will drive it until the tank is empty (another 3-4 days) and will go from there. I still can't get passed that bottle, such a difference it made !!!!! I'm sure it cleaned something that was clogged. your thoughts, please.