do i need a type r bottom end for my b16a

[ninzee]

hey
i tried searching but mayb i didnt use the right keywords becuase nothing came up
just wondering if any b18 bottom end will fit on my b16a head or do i need a type r bottom end to make it work? internals dont really matter much because i will be changing them, i would go b20 but iv herd that they arnt as relyable as b18 bottoms

[R8D R]

ey yeah im pretty sure u can bolt on a b18c block onto your b16a however im pretty sure if its a b18b block you have to run oil from the bottom end to the head which u can get kits for.

if im wrong someone correct me but im pretty sure thats how it goes

[dougie_504]

If you're doing away with the B16A bottom you should probably go with a VTEC B18 bottom for strength and oil setup. B20 takes a lot more work I've heard and it has to be built properly.

[ninzee]

yea thats what i herd to dougie thats why im a little sceptical about doing it cause i need my car as a daily can i use my b16a gear box or will it be too shit

[mocchi]

yea thats what i herd to dougie thats why im a little sceptical about doing it cause i need my car as a daily can i use my b16a gear box or will it be too shit

what did you herd?

[dougie_504]

yea thats what i herd to dougie thats why im a little sceptical about doing it cause i need my car as a daily can i use my b16a gear box or will it be too shit

You're B16A GBox will be fine, direct bolt-on. I think lots of people underestimate the B16A GBox but it's a great box for mixed daily/track driving. If you wanna flog it off let me know! lol



what did you herd?

That the non-VTEC B-series bottom ends aren't strong enough to handle VTEC power, and that a B20VTEC can go very wrong if it's not built properly.

[GSi_PSi]

I think its kinda good people have these myths about b20's, b18b's means more power for us lol

[ninzee]

You're B16A GBox will be fine, direct bolt-on. I think lots of people underestimate the B16A GBox but it's a great box for mixed daily/track driving. If you wanna flog it off let me know! lol.

yea i know that :P apparantly a 4.4 fd will be bad for it. is that right?

[ninzee]

I think its kinda good people have these myths about b20's, b18b's means more power for us lol

how do u figure lol i agree that if made properly b20s can be very good though

[mocchi]

That the non-VTEC B-series bottom ends aren't strong enough to handle VTEC power, and that a B20VTEC can go very wrong if it's not built properly.

hehehe dougie, i was just messing with him because of his spelling. herd as in a sheep herder, herd of cows etc.
hehe.

[ninzee]

lol sorry next time i'll use the right spelling :p

[GSi_PSi]

if your going to upgrade might aswell get a 4.9fd .

[dougie_504]

yea i know that :P apparantly a 4.4 fd will be bad for it. is that right?


Like I said it's fine for somebody who does daily driving and the occasional entertaining drive/track day. My B16A is getting fairly built and I'm sticking with my 4.4 box.

If you want to go further down the racing path then you should consider upgrading your tranny but it's fine mate. 4.4 is fine.

[VT3C]

erm in terms of the boxes themselves they're pretty much as tough as each other..
just the ratios inside are different. in terms of 'strength' a stock B16 box is as strong as AB18 Box.. both use the same bearings, input shafts etc.

FYI when people are talking about the FD (final Drive Ratios) of 4.4 for example.. the higer the number the quicker acceleratuion will come but the top-speed will be lower. the 98-99 Integra Type R has a 4.9 FD.. EG6/EK4/EG2 and 96-98 spec DC2-R all have the same Gear Ratio and Final Drives (4.4FD).

[mocchi]

erm in terms of the boxes themselves they're pretty much as tough as each other..
just the ratios inside are different. in terms of 'strength' a stock B16 box is as strong as AB18 Box.. both use the same bearings, input shafts etc.

FYI when people are talking about the FD (final Drive Ratios) of 4.4 for example.. the higer the number the quicker acceleratuion will come but the top-speed will be lower. the 98-99 Integra Type R has a 4.9 FD.. EG6/EK4/EG2 and 96-98 spec DC2-R all have the same Gear Ratio and Final Drives (4.4FD).

what? it's 4.7 not 4.9
oh and i think it's 96-97, not 96-98.

[GSi_PSi]

1+ mocchi is right

[dougie_504]

Yeah 4.9 FD is an aftermarket mod

[danny_2132]

ay ninz

go b20 if you are replacing all the internals, im guessing you'll be spending roughly the same amount of money on it, and b20= more torque for you daily driving :D

[fatboyz39]

Upgrade to a close ratio box, but if on a budget a 4.9FD will do.

[Bludger]

Like I said it's fine for somebody who does daily driving and the occasional entertaining drive/track day. My B16A is getting fairly built and I'm sticking with my 4.4 box.

If you want to go further down the racing path then you should consider upgrading your tranny but it's fine mate. 4.4 is fine.yep, fine if you want to go slow.

4.4 to 4.9 is like Mercury to Pluto.

have you driven a 4.7 or 4.9 yet Andy?

[ninzee]

wait so wats better 4.7 or 4.9 and which has more fun factor to it

[Bludger]

if you research what those numbers mean then you have your answer

[ninzee]

found this http://www.fatboyraceworks.com/gears/index.php?MaxRPM=9200&TireDiameter=23.07&GearRatio1=3.23&GearRatio2=2.105&GearRatio3=1.458&GearRatio4=1.107&GearRatio5=0.848&GearRatio6=0&FinalDrive=4.4&TireWidth=205&TireAspect=50&RimDiameter=15&MaxRPM_2=8250&TireDiameter_2=23.07&GearRatio1_2=3.23&GearRatio2_2=1.9&GearRatio3_2=1.36&GearRatio4_2=1.034&GearRatio5_2=0.787&GearRatio6_2=0&FinalDrive_2=4.4&TireWidth_2=205&TireAspect_2=50&RimDiameter_2=15&Calculate=Calculate%2FGraph&Compare=1

[Bludger]

good work:thumbsup:

[ninzee]

so bottom line is the high the final drive the more acceleration but at the cost of top speed.
what is the rpm at 100km for a 4.7 fd and a 4.9 fd i couldnt find that out anywhere

[Bludger]

I haven't driven a 4.9fd but in a 4.7fd (stock 98 spec dc2r box) its roughly 3500rpm.

4.9FD in a dc2r box I guess it would be around 4000rpm???

give or take.....

our gen 2 crx with 98 spec b18cr revs at 4500rpm at 115km/h. At 100km/h its just a bit over 4000rpm.

previous owner has insisted its the stock 4.4 or whatever FD but I'm convinced it has a 4.9 FD in there.

never know for sure till we open oit up.

[dougie_504]

yep, fine if you want to go slow.

4.4 to 4.9 is like Mercury to Pluto.

have you driven a 4.7 or 4.9 yet Andy?


Yes, in Andy Le's ground-up rebuilt ED9 with B18C2 (ITR internals, port-job, re-welded combustion chambers, I/H/E and 4.7 GBox). I did notice that I was shifting up about 10km lower than on my B16A box.

I'm building my spare B16A head now and will then get an S300 set up and tuned, but have considered upgrading to an ITR box later down the track to shorten the gears, but I still think the OEM box will make do for now - will also be looking into a SO clutch with LW Fly also, which might help with the longer 4.4 GBox, right?

[Bludger]

I was hoping you would say that you noticed on the WOT accelerations, the revs were building up so fast you couldn't shift quick enough.

If you had all that work done on a b18 then no worries, but since you're under 1600cc then i think its a bit shit with the 4.4 imo.

[dougie_504]

found this http://www.fatboyraceworks.com/gears/index.php?MaxRPM=9200&TireDiameter=23.07&GearRatio1=3.23&GearRatio2=2.105&GearRatio3=1.458&GearRatio4=1.107&GearRatio5=0.848&GearRatio6=0&FinalDrive=4.4&TireWidth=205&TireAspect=50&RimDiameter=15&MaxRPM_2=8250&TireDiameter_2=23.07&GearRatio1_2=3.23&GearRatio2_2=1.9&GearRatio3_2=1.36&GearRatio4_2=1.034&GearRatio5_2=0.787&GearRatio6_2=0&FinalDrive_2=4.4&TireWidth_2=205&TireAspect_2=50&RimDiameter_2=15&Calculate=Calculate%2FGraph&Compare=1


According to that website the CRX SiR's GBox has a FD of 4.266.

I was under the impression that the Y1 box from the Gen1 B16A in the CRX SiR had a FD of 4.4?

4.266 is ridiculous! I thought that FD was from the B18B non-VTEC motor out of the GSi Integra?

[dougie_504]

I was hoping you would say that you noticed on the WOT accelerations, the revs were building up so fast you couldn't shift quick enough.

If you had all that work done on a b18 then no worries, but since you're under 1600cc then i think its a bit shit with the 4.4 imo.


This could be due to a few things.

Since it was his car (which he's spent over $40g on) I didn't do a lot of redline shifts and was driving very cautiously.

Secondly he's fab'd in an S2000 cluster so you gotta figure out all these illuminated rev meters and crap that you're not used to whilst driving a car you're not used to.

So maybe if I put an ITR box on my B16A and was comfortable enough to flog it I would feel this way.



PS: I hit VTEC in 5th yesterday :)

[Bludger]

built high comp b18c2 in dc2 vtir. b16a box
Its crying out, begging, dying to be installed with a dc2r box.

got one, waiting for recon and install.

can't wait.

we have strayed way, way off topic..........


OP, get a dc2r box, will do wonders, get 4.9 FD as well.

[NSPYRE]

http://www.teammfactory.com/gear-calculator

i find this to be a better calculator. more pre-set options and gives accurate revs in relation to speed

[ninzee]

built high comp b18c2 in dc2 vtir. b16a box
Its crying out, begging, dying to be installed with a dc2r box.

got one, waiting for recon and install.

can't wait.

we have strayed way, way off topic..........


OP, get a dc2r box, will do wonders, get 4.9 FD as well.

lol thanks, thats what i wanted to know just plain and simple so dc2r box with 4.9 fd (if i can afford it at the time)
+1

[ninzee]

http://www.teammfactory.com/gear-calculator

i find this to be a better calculator. more pre-set options and gives accurate revs in relation to speed

yea that one is alot better
but according to that the 4.7 fd does 100 at roughly 3.5k rpm and a 4.4 fd does 100 at 4k rpm
isnt that the wrong way around
i used jdm itr and 4.4 fd eg6/ek9/sir

[dougie_504]

yea that one is alot better
but according to that the 4.7 fd does 100 at roughly 3.5k rpm and a 4.4 fd does 100 at 4k rpm
isnt that the wrong way around
i used jdm itr and 4.4 fd eg6/ek9/sir


Yes it should be the other way around.

My 4.4 box from the Gen1 JDM B16A does roughly 3500 rpm and 100 in 5th. 2000 RPM at 60 in 5th.

[NSPYRE]

yea that one is alot better
but according to that the 4.7 fd does 100 at roughly 3.5k rpm and a 4.4 fd does 100 at 4k rpm
isnt that the wrong way around
i used jdm itr and 4.4 fd eg6/ek9/sir

... how did u get that????? i just ran through the exact same and the result i got was that they were more or less the same, only 100rpm between them both in 5th gear...

[ninzee]

i dno i just checked it again and its the same as myn before?
what am i doing wrong