EP3R Gearbox Issue pleasehelp

[Antv]

Hey everyone

problem:
So everytime i i try shift to 2nd gear(and 3rd gear too) it feels like it doesnt want to go in forcing me to reclutch a couple of times and really push it into gear :(

And once i do get it in 2nd gear and i shift to 3rd it does not feel like a smooth shift at all, it feels like its just popping out from 2nd and into neutral.

My clutch is fine its not slipping or anything. Could it be worn synchros? or something else? Where should i go to get my gearbox checked up?

EDIT: sorry, forgot to mention that whenever i redline in 1st and try to shift to 2nd its impossible to get in, it always crunches or gets stuck somewhere halfway not allowing me to engage in 2nd gear

Any help will be greatly appreciated :thumbsup:

[bennjamin]

Possible failure of clutch master and or slave cylinder -

Go to Adrian at TODA PERFOMANCE in thornleigh - give him a call on
0401 869 524 and book it in for a quick look and test

Tell him bennjamin sent you !

[Antv]

thanks alot mate

ill give him a call

open to more responses keep them coming guys :)

[L0Ki]

So seriously guys...could it be synchros? Thats what i was thinking all along.

After reading abit up on the EP3 gearbox it seems like its a fairly common problem. Well atleast 2nd gear is, i even think it was a recall under warranty for some time in england, but now its no longer. http://type-r-owners.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?49381-gear-box-problems-on-2004-type-r

Not that you'd be able to claim it under warranty cause a you dont have one and b its an import.

[wynode]

How many kms on the box?

Sounds like your clutch is not disengaging properly.

[Antv]

61,000kms on gearbox. its a heavy duty clutch or so not exactly sure but the friction point is really close to the floor.

[iQQ]

i had the same problem when i was at around 60 000 km, crunched at high revs n fells like its gonna pop out of gear. people told me it might of been my syncros but i just changed my clutch and gearbox oil and it was all good again

[Nepolian]

There is a common issue with the master/slave combos. Hard to tell over the net sometimes! But if your car has had an easy life, I'd go the master/slave cylinder!

[Antv]

how much will it cost for master/slave cylinder? sounds like im up shitcreek lol

[Poeter]

i had the same problem when i was at around 60 000 km, crunched at high revs n fells like its gonna pop out of gear. people told me it might of been my syncros but i just changed my clutch and gearbox oil and it was all good again


lol if this helps +1 REP PLEASE! need to sell shit!

What gearbox oil are you using now?

[iQQ]

What gearbox oil are you using now?

redline

[bbds]

i had the same problem when i had my ep3, when shifting from 1st to 2nd i had to really slide towards the left a lil more, where as if u just go straight down it wont engage properly. but gears never really popped out. Before i bought the car i did test drive other ep3s and they were exactly the same, one with 40,000km and the other 70,000km. i doubt its a synchro problem.

[bennjamin]

how much will it cost for master/slave cylinder? sounds like im up shitcreek lol


about $450-500 for parts and labour. Sucks , but thats a fault with honda parts. Need replacement apparently every 80-100,000ks. Even less if thrashed or non-honda fluid used

[Antv]

thats alright i guess....

will give Adrian a call soon

[SuperSteve]

im currently having this issue. Got new master and slave not long ago and that did help me with getting car into gears but still the crunch when high reving gear changing. I have a clutch ready to go on but just need time off to get it done. Will do a post to let yas know if it fixes this 1st to 2nd throw crunch problem

[Malenic1981]

Boys I had same problem with my car when I first got it, after lots of research it came down to wrong oil in gearbox, we put in redline oil and it was mistake, those gearboxes are very sensative and you should use honda gearbox oil (the one they sale at dealerships), hopefully none of your 2nd and 3rd synhros are farked.
I was lucky I didn't drive car much, as soon as I saw the problem I stoped driving it until we found out what it was and did oil change, we changed it ones than I did around 1000km, than we changed it again so we get all the little bits of redline out, apperantly the tend to stick to gearbox and that's why it's important to get it all out.
Ever since than my gearbox has been perfect
good luck mate

[onevia13]

highly likely clutch dude.

[Poeter]

Boys I had same problem with my car when I first got it, after lots of research it came down to wrong oil in gearbox, we put in redline oil and it was mistake, those gearboxes are very sensative and you should use honda gearbox oil (the one they sale at dealerships), hopefully none of your 2nd and 3rd synhros are farked.
I was lucky I didn't drive car much, as soon as I saw the problem I stoped driving it until we found out what it was and did oil change, we changed it ones than I did around 1000km, than we changed it again so we get all the little bits of redline out, apperantly the tend to stick to gearbox and that's why it's important to get it all out.
Ever since than my gearbox has been perfect
good luck mate

For my jazz, i put in valvoline mtf. The gearbox felt crap and I was paranoid.

Changed back to Honda MTF, it was back to normal except a slight diff whine :( So it does seem true that Honda gearbox are quite sensitive to what fluids are used.

And because the Ep3 has a LSD, i think Honda has a separate MTF for gearboxes with LSD as well.

[Lukezen27]

For my jazz, i put in valvoline mtf. The gearbox felt crap and I was paranoid.

Changed back to Honda MTF, it was back to normal except a slight diff whine :( So it does seem true that Honda gearbox are quite sensitive to what fluids are used.

And because the Ep3 has a LSD, i think Honda has a separate MTF for gearboxes with LSD as well.

My box whines a bit too but gears and clutch seem fine.

I'll be changing oil soon so fingers crossed she quietens up a tad afterwards

Anyone actually know what the whine is?

[SuperSteve]

My box whines a bit too but gears and clutch seem fine.

I'll be changing oil soon so fingers crossed she quietens up a tad afterwards

Anyone actually know what the whine is?

is the whine noise when ur clutching is engaging and ur riding the clutch just b4 it makes its full engagement ?? could b clutch bearing

[spyda00]

i had this issue and have heavy duty clutch my release point was near the floor you u need to bring the release point out further to give the clutch more spring to engage and disengage the clutch. the adjustment is on the pedal :)

my syncros have 160,000km's on them and been running 300hp at wheels for 70,000km's and still are not showing signs of wear last time the box was out 15,000 km ago. i change the gear oil every 20,000 using endless so they seam to last :)

[bennjamin]

My box whines a bit too but gears and clutch seem fine.

I'll be changing oil soon so fingers crossed she quietens up a tad afterwards

Anyone actually know what the whine is?


Could be input shaft bearing - a ep3 I checked on here had a major whine that was in every gear and disappeared as the clutch was released.
FYI Luke , my ep3 does not whine at all

[Poeter]

I thought isb produces more of a rumble noise like shattered marbles.

[bennjamin]

I thought isb produces more of a rumble noise like shattered marbles.

When it is totally destroyed - yes it does. Like shaking a aerosol can.

But if it is lacking sufficient lube ( low fluid level) or is wearing it will whine. Also the bearing on the opposite end of the input shaft could be bad too

[damoqupak]

I'm actually going to try that and use the honda oil for the gear box. I also got told to use honda's engine oil as well.
I've used mobile one for 10,000k which made a diff in the engine and also elf full synthetic for 5,000k.
with the gear box i bleed it out and used elf bleed it out again and used elf one more time.
it was sweet for about a month now its sort of doing the same thing.. it's like the clutch doesn't release it but no other gear has issues..
I'll try the honda gear box oil.. cheers Malenic and thank God for Honda forums..

[Poeter]

Let us know how you go with the honda oil for the gearbox.

I thought Honda would had a seperate oil for gearboxes with LSD but I just asked yesterday they told me they only have one.

I'm guess with a LSD we just gotta change gearbox oil more frequently than a gearbox with an open diff??

[damoqupak]

I think it may all come down to how often you hammer your beauty. I may look at getting it changed every 50,000k but for sure I'll let you know how i go with the honda gearbox oil..

what engine oil you use?

[Antv]

thanks alot for your responses guys. hope to hear how your new clutch fixes the problem SuperSteve.

im using elf 10w40. i hardly hammer it at all just vtec once in a while :)

[damoqupak]

dude gotta give it a hammer now and then... love the sound it makes... the way a real engine should sound..
yeah i heard that elf fully synthetic is the best to use but some do recommend honda's engine oil..
I'll let you all know..

[bennjamin]

Guys - any Honda that comes with a standard LSD is a torsen type - it is mechanical / cog type and requires no special fluid.

Please use only MTF 06 Honda transmission fluid for all standard or lightly modded transmission applications

[damoqupak]

cheers Bennjamin I'll give it a shot..

[bennjamin]

GL dude should be no issues. Anyone that tells you redline or other brands FIXED their crunching or feel - are just feeling the mask of additives ( doesnt fix bad driving that caused the bad synchros in the first place!) and ofcourse a lighter wallet :-)


I too am doing my clutch as soon as I can get a solid day off and will use OEM Honda fluids.

[damoqupak]

true..

where do you get your car looked after?

[bennjamin]

true..

where do you get your car looked after?



Do all work myself - have been for years ! A plethora of ozhonda members know too :-)

[damoqupak]

lol... i thought so.. cheers

[Poeter]

Guys - any Honda that comes with a standard LSD is a torsen type - it is mechanical / cog type and requires no special fluid.

Please use only MTF 06 Honda transmission fluid for all standard or lightly modded transmission applications

Thanks for the clear up. I'll trust you on that.

When you mean OEM fluids, I'm taking that you're using OEM engine oil + OEM brake(clutch) fluid too?

[bennjamin]

Thanks for the clear up. I'll trust you on that.

When you mean OEM fluids, I'm taking that you're using OEM engine oil + OEM brake(clutch) fluid too?


Me - personally - yes I run all Honda oem fluids. First thing I did once I got
This car was change bleed and drain everything- from the black unknown bob Jane special fluid back to OE glory.

[damoqupak]

where you buy it from Ben?
just any honda dealership?

[Poeter]

Cool. Good to know that all the Australian Honda OEM Fluids still works with the ep3.

[bennjamin]

everything except australian fuel works ! I find alittle pinging with our 98 under light load on the odd occasion.

[Poeter]

Yea, same here. I'm hearing a bit of pinging after turning off the car.

[damoqupak]

i assume all of you use BP Ultimate? I have found it as the best fuel to get for the EPs due to the high revs.. plus most Honda enthusiasts recommend BP ultimate..

i must admit the elf gear box oil is working real well in my car. this week has been a pleasure to drive the car and shift gears.. this is the second time I've used it. I'm still going to try the Honda OEM fluids and see how i go.

[Jibz]

yeah id definitely be interested to know how OEM compares to the Elf stuff..

Ive had the crunching since I got the car (55k KM) and have bought ESMM inserts, shifter bushings, gear box oil change (to Martini) and more recently did the Master and Slave cylinders.. None of it helped get rid of the inability to put it in gears (usually from a stop, sometimes while driving hard) so really, its just the clutch left to change (and I'm crossing my fingers that the gearbox isn't the cause).

All in all, spent WAY too much money to fix this problem, all the while putting on undue wear onto the box (whenever the issues come up) because sometimes, the gearbox is absolutely perfect, though that only lasts for a few hours or days of driving..

[Lukezen27]

is the whine noise when ur clutching is engaging and ur riding the clutch just b4 it makes its full engagement ?? could b clutch bearing

Sorry for the late reply Steve...

Slight whin while nothings engaging and shes in nutral.. nose goes complely once the clutch is engaging..

Just changed my box fluid, man pain in the ass compared to the B lol

[DR HONDA]

yeah id definitely be interested to know how OEM compares to the Elf stuff..

Ive had the crunching since I got the car (55k KM) and have bought ESMM inserts, shifter bushings, gear box oil change (to Martini) and more recently did the Master and Slave cylinders.. None of it helped get rid of the inability to put it in gears (usually from a stop, sometimes while driving hard) so really, its just the clutch left to change (and I'm crossing my fingers that the gearbox isn't the cause).

All in all, spent WAY too much money to fix this problem, all the while putting on undue wear onto the box (whenever the issues come up) because sometimes, the gearbox is absolutely perfect, though that only lasts for a few hours or days of driving..

Sometimes it pays to have a correct diagnosis on the issue at hand before hundreds get thrown out the door on replacing everything without fixing the issue. I have rarely seen a clutch/slave cylinder fail unless it has been inadequately bled in the first instance. Which gear/gears are giving you issues?

[Antv]

Dr Honda,

its 2nd and 3rd gear for me...what could be the problem?

[DR HONDA]

Dr Honda,

its 2nd and 3rd gear for me...what could be the problem?

Without test driving and knowing the history of the car this would only be a net diagnosis. 2nd and 3rd gears are notoriuos culprits and extremely common in any K 6 speed box. Id recommend the replacement of 1st/2nd syncro hub and second gear & 3rd/4th syncro hub and third gear and inspect all lubrication passages for debris. PM me if you need more assistance.

[Jibz]

A Honda specialist said after driving the car that it "felt like the clutch was disengaging at an angle". It has good bite and all so perhaps was never installed properly (by the previous owner) or for whatever other reason. I did all the other stuff because I had read about people having various problems and I employed each solution in order of cost. Engine mounts were an upgrade to other areas, as were the shifter bushings. Clutch master and slave cylinders people said could give the symptoms I was experiencing, as could a clutch.

At least in terms of what the problem could be coming from, I can rest assured its not from any of the areas that I have already gone through and the next thing to do is change the clutch. I'm hoping thats the end of it, as going into the gear box is going to be ridiculously costly for me.

Grinding occurs occasionally in the lower gears (when the problem is at its most apparent) and I'm talking normal daily driving, shifting into a gear slowly with the clutch fully depressed. In general, its just REALLY hard to put it into gears when the problem is bad.

[Poeter]

Does it occur for both upshifting and downshifting?

[Jibz]

yeah. any gear shifting.

[damoqupak]

I got the gearbox drained and replaced the elf with oem Honda fluid. So far so good but its hard to tell. The elf before was good at the start but later on got worse.

[damoqupak]

ok its been 5 days now since i drained my gearbox oil and put in Honda's OEM..

its getting better each day i will drain it again after 10,000km to make sure all the elf is gone but so far it's better than what i had when i first bought the car and later when i filled it with elf..

[Poeter]

Good to know OEM is working for you.

With OEM, you can't go wrong. A friend of mine gone to motul but shift quality has decreased. He is going to replace it back to OEM soon.

[damoqupak]

Good to know OEM is working for you.

With OEM, you can't go wrong. A friend of mine gone to motul but shift quality has decreased. He is going to replace it back to OEM soon.


yeah man highly recommend it. also if you do a search on google you'll pretty much see the same answer in most forums across the world about the EP3 gearbox. took me ages though but i found a few of them all saying OEM is mostly recommended even the oil filters but so far I've been using the mugen filter.

[SuperSteve]

im currently having this issue. Got new master and slave not long ago and that did help me with getting car into gears but still the crunch when high reving gear changing. I have a clutch ready to go on but just need time off to get it done. Will do a post to let yas know if it fixes this 1st to 2nd throw crunch problem

Hey guys just a update.

I recently got my clutch replaced and now my gbox problem is gone. Problem end up being that my clutch was not disengaging properly. O the joys of flat changing :)

[damoqupak]

Hey guys just a update.

I recently got my clutch replaced and now my gbox problem is gone. Problem end up being that my clutch was not disengaging properly. O the joys of flat changing :)

steve how much did that set ya back and where u got it done hanneys?? PM me where you got it done, i still want my clutch checked out and may replace it while its under warranty..

[Lukezen27]

Hey guys just a update.

I recently got my clutch replaced and now my gbox problem is gone. Problem end up being that my clutch was not disengaging properly. O the joys of flat changing :)

Yeah how much?

i need a clutch to handle about 210wkw soon

[damoqupak]

Yeah how much?

i need a clutch to handle about 210wkw soon

wow! nice man! when i done some research the standard gearbox on the ep3 is solid and can handle 500bhp which i think is 370kw..

[Lukezen27]

wow! nice man! when i done some research the standard gearbox on the ep3 is solid and can handle 500bhp which i think is 370kw..

Not yet, still looking at the best SC to use but soon

[damoqupak]

I think I spoke to soon.
I tried to hammer it yesterday night it was prime cool weather at 11pm launched it off the lights and still it's hard to slam it into 2nd but casual driving has improved since the OEM gearbox oil. maybe the gearbox is still warming up into the we'll see.

[TOUGE-ITR]

Hi guys,

Sorry im new to owning an ep3r and was just wondering how much oil the gearbox takes as mine is having a similar problem.

Thanks.

[Nepolian]

oh another of those 'special' cars that takes normal fluids. About 2 litres mate :)

[TOUGE-ITR]

haha..thanks buddy. I thought id give it a go, ill probably run NEO gear oil though.

is there a difference in the gearboxes between the jdm ep3r, aus dc5r, uk delivered ep3 and us si?