Rebuilding my own s2k diff

[Age_S2000]

gday all
long story as shot as possible...

back in janurary before i blew my gearbox to smitheriens i had a couple of runs one night at calder and due my shit launching techniques i managed to damage the bearings in the diff.

the noise it was making was a winding noise only on deceleration only up untill yesterday it has been making the same noise so i thort bugger it im taking it out now lol.
i pulled it apart today to discover there is no damage to the gears or the lsd. so now im gonna order a set of seals and bearings from honda and put it back together in my free time :D as a mechanic its actually really easy and i thort after spending $2650 getting the box fully rebuilt, $1000 on a HD clutch and $2700 on new drive shafts and spacers, there was no way i was gonna pay someone to change seals and bearings for me n be charged a fortune again :D

ill upload some pics of it all pulled apart and ill let you all know when its done and installed :)


Edited by ludecrs: no selling for Newcomers.

[Age_S2000]

ok so this is how its looking so far :) the LSD is taped up in masking tape because i had to angle grind the bearing race off as i didnt have the tool specified by honda to pull the bearings off.

i removed all the seals and bearings and gave it all a good clean, i painted the rear housing in heat proof enamel aluminum colour and the front housing in heat proof gloss black :D

iv ordered the bearings and seals from honda so ill find out how much and how long on monday :)
im hoping there not coming from japan or else its a 6 week wait :(

theres a picture below to show what im upto and for those who dont know what the diff looks like inside

[greek_rambos2k]

i have the same thing happening to mine. my LSD is noisy and mechanic said bearings r going. if its easy maybe i should do it myself :P my gearbox is pretty good, makes little noises else its fine. keep putting pics up mate really helpful. Would it be better at all to upgrade the LSD while its out?

[Age_S2000]

if i was planing on keeping the car after its done then yea but im not so just trying to budget.

the way to see if your lsd is working fine is

1. come to a T intersection turning either left or right accelerate when safe to do so a little more then normal you should feel or hear the inner tyre skipping like a mini spool or u will feel the lsd slipping.

2. do a burnout in a paddok ;) if u leave two lines behind its all good :)

3. if its not making wierd noises like winding or crunching noises while turning or going around bends then its also ok.

all seals and bearings will be genuine honda so im no cutting corners there either :)

[S2on20]

so what was wrong with it ? just the seals?

my diff is whinning loudly and makeing clunking noises at the moment so im not driving it till i get it fixed

[Age_S2000]

na just the bearings r noisy.

the bearings and seals from honda were $450 the same brand seals and bearings from burson's are $180 lol will be putting it back together tomoro ill take a few more pics

[Age_S2000]

ok so its finally finished sorry i didnt take pics as i was piecing it together, adjusting preloads and end float took some time and my hands were to dirty to fiddle around in my pockets to reach my brand new samsung galaxy s lol.
everything checked out ok in the end it has 4 new bearings, 3 new seals and a new preload colapsable spacer :D just goto get a bottle of OEM Diff oil tomoro and put it... after tonights gym sesh i cbf lol

second hand diff $1800 - $2300, reconditioned diff $1500 - $2000, brand new diff $5000+
REBUILD IT YOURSELF PRICELESS = $205 :D :D :D :D :D

hears a few pics of my brand new reconditioned diff :D i hav cleaned the red silicone off too btw :)

[YLDS2K]

that is fantastic work and i think it is great you have been able to do this on your own. I am having problems with my diff where i believe my crown and pinion are stuffed and also some bearings could be on they're way. Would u be interested in some cash work? Hoping you are located in melbourne...Let me know if you are

[STAiN MASTER]

Great effort, hope it all works out! well done.

[zhong]

Did it cure your problem? I'm looking at doing the same soon too.. Maybe someone should write a DIY! :D

[boyjkl1111]

s2000 Diff is that easy to break? or may be u r a tough racer lol. just joking. well done mate.

[euromandeluxe]

s2000 Diff is that easy to break? or may be u r a tough racer lol. just joking. well done mate.

the diff seems to be quite easy to break, compared to other RWD sportscars anyway.

[VeYzZii]

Im not to sure, had the s2000 for over 8 months.. The car was bought with hideos 20'' chrome rims (which are for sale... ;), and i do give the car for a bit of a beating, no clunking, no whining.. All sweet on this. The diff has never been changed/replaced/rebuilt..

[sambalam]

Im not to sure, had the s2000 for over 8 months.. The car was bought with hideos 20'' chrome rims (which are for sale... ;), and i do give the car for a bit of a beating, no clunking, no whining.. All sweet on this. The diff has never been changed/replaced/rebuilt..

find the biggest stockpile of wood and spend the whole day touching it lol.

also that is awesome, so much cash saved!

[kimnkk]

Wow awesome thread! Let us know how it goes in your car :D

[Age_S2000]

sorry for the late reply folks but unfortunatly nothing has changed the same noise is still present after replacing all the seals and bearings in the diff :( there was no visible wear to the LSD, crown wheel or pinion so im unsure of what it may be.

im gonna put it back up on the hoist on saturday and try listen to the rear wheel bearings with a stethascope (the thing the docs use to hear ur heartbeat only a mechanics one has a long aluminum rod on the end of it) as the noise now seems to be more auditable from the drivers side and not so much from the passanger seat :( all in all im glad i done it myself it was fun to pull apart and rebuild, im mostly glad i didnt pay for it to be done or id be $2000+ out of pocket lol

now iv come across another delema my radiator is leaking :( lol so if ne one has one would it be great i posted this in the WTB section too.

ill let u know how i go with the rear wheel bearings. as for a DIY goto google n search for an online S2000 workshop manual, same goes for gearbox removal the instructions r all there :)

[Age_S2000]

woooo new radiator is in, car is back on the road now im happy :D the top tank on the radiator had a crack in it 10cm long :S

[kimnkk]

Woot nice that was fast!

About the diff noise, does it happen on acceleration and deceleration? Or just acceleration or even just with speed? if its not in your diff or one of the components you replaced, I wonder what else it could be!

[pilotb777_300]

Sorry to bring this thread up again guys.... but I been having some diff issues of my own. I posted something up on s2ki but havent gotten much back from there... thought maybe I'd try here... this is the post I had up on s2ki



Was wondering if you can clear up something for me.... I've done a bit of searching around on this site and found quite a few topics on diff whine. Most seem to indicate that diff whine thats directly proportinal with road speed is most likely the lead up toa blow diff. In my case I'm getting slight diff whine that slightly noticable with the roof down and quite noticable with the roof closed. The difference with me is it seems to be a specific range or RPM or rd speed. For example in 6th gear at 90KM/h it start to whine under power and by the time I've hit 100KM/h or approx 62mph the whine is gone.... is this normal for the S2000 ? it happens in all gears I'm guessing at specific RPM/load. IF you exceed that range or go below it in that specific gear the whine stops.... I'm not sure how long its been happening for (maybe 6 month)... the car has so many noises with the roof closed that I cant tell whats normal and whats not !

Thanks

Can anyone help me with this ? I was driving around yesterday trying to replicate the noise again....it only happnes under power when accelerating in pretty much every gear through 3000rpm under moderate load and disapears once I've gone past 4000rpm.... well it either disapears or the engine noise is masking the whine so I cant really hear it. but under 3000 rpm there is def no diff whine... I have also tried rolling to a stop from about 70km/h in neutral and again no diff whine.... the car was serviced at honda approx 7000km again for the 80K major service so I assume they have changed all the diff and gear box oil with OEM stuff.

Any ideas ?

[greek_rambos2k]

sorry for the late reply folks but unfortunatly nothing has changed the same noise is still present after replacing all the seals and bearings in the diff :( there was no visible wear to the LSD, crown wheel or pinion so im unsure of what it may be.

im gonna put it back up on the hoist on saturday and try listen to the rear wheel bearings with a stethascope (the thing the docs use to hear ur heartbeat only a mechanics one has a long aluminum rod on the end of it) as the noise now seems to be more auditable from the drivers side and not so much from the passanger seat :( all in all im glad i done it myself it was fun to pull apart and rebuild, im mostly glad i didnt pay for it to be done or id be $2000+ out of pocket lol

now iv come across another delema my radiator is leaking :( lol so if ne one has one would it be great i posted this in the WTB section too.

ill let u know how i go with the rear wheel bearings. as for a DIY goto google n search for an online S2000 workshop manual, same goes for gearbox removal the instructions r all there :)

hey mate iv got a copy of the s2000 service manual PDF if you want it. its got how to pull the diff apart and stuff if that helps you.

[sambalam]

hey mate iv got a copy of the s2000 service manual PDF if you want it. its got how to pull the diff apart and stuff if that helps you.

Id love a copy of that

[ludecrs]

Id love a copy of that

http://www.vtec.net/

From memory has the link there.... somewhere..

[greek_rambos2k]

Id love a copy of that

sure mate. PM me ur email and ill send it to yaaa

[Age_S2000]

lol thanks man i already got it with out it i would not hav been able to set the tensions and clearances in the diff.

im still getting a whining/humming type noise while crusing between 60 and 80kmh, and on decel i get a noise the same as when u put a piece of cardboard between the spokes of ur bmx lol (only way i could describe it) that only happens from 20kmh - 0

i have a 16month old clutch, a 5 month old gear box, 10 month old NEW drive shafts with spacers, and all the bearings in the diff r new. may i remind u this noise only started after a bad night of launching at Calder Park Raceway..............

[greek_rambos2k]

maybe its the axle not the diff.... just thinking out loud.

[Age_S2000]

the axles are the drive shafts, the tailshaft is the one that goes from the gbox to the diff ;)

[greek_rambos2k]

oh. my bad. but yeh that :P

[nickk]

does the tail shaft on an s2k have a center bearing / uni? check that.

[Age_S2000]

na it doesnt :(

does ne one have a tail shaft laying around i can borrow for an hour or so im in west side of melb

[zhong]

Have you checked your wheel bearings? Since your sound is mostly noticeable at 20-0, it makes sense that the wheel bearing spins slower coming to a halt. There is really nothing in the axle/tailshaft that could make flicking sounds, if there was, you'd feel it.

[Age_S2000]

yea im looking on ebay n ringing around wreckers for a hub assembly i havnt even quoted a wheel bearing from honda yet i could do it its not hard just a pain pressing it in and out lol

[s2kjn]

I can only forewarn those who have diff whining issues that YOU SHOULD NOT DRIVE YOUR CAR until you get the diff properly inspected.

The whine that I heard in my diff lasted for 2 days, then suddenly, at a set of lights, launched a bit more than normal, then heard this massive clunk noise, sounded like an expolosion!

Had to replace crown & pinion + labour, costed me well over $2k!

[dc2r-0636]

have you guys thought about Cryo Treating your diff ? i know people who have done this and had no problems so far *touch wood*

more on cryo treating can be found here: http://members.ozemail.com.au/~mtce/coldinfo.htm

[pilotb777_300]

I can only forewarn those who have diff whining issues that YOU SHOULD NOT DRIVE YOUR CAR until you get the diff properly inspected.

The whine that I heard in my diff lasted for 2 days, then suddenly, at a set of lights, launched a bit more than normal, then heard this massive clunk noise, sounded like an expolosion!

Had to replace crown & pinion + labour, costed me well over $2k!

Just to update everyone on this, I stopped driving my car as I didnt want to do anymore damage to the diff, if it was infact damaged. Last night I decided to drain the diff out and see the state of the oil as it can be a good indication as to the state of the diff internally.

Let me say this, anyone that leaves their diff oil for the recommended 40K is asking for trouble ! I know my diff oil was changed by honda just under 10 000km ago and what came out of the diff shocked the crap out of me ! This black sludge/mud foul smellling oil slowly started sipping out ! it was so thick and even with the diff being warm that I had to leave it for a good 45 mins to get every last drip out. On the plus side though, I didnt find any big chunks of metal in there or any indication that something is broken. There was a thin film of metalic shavings on the magnetic drain plug which I belive is normal. I decided to use some Nulon SAE90 to replace the old fluid.

Anyways 30 mins later I had the car back on the rd and the whine is still there :( although its less noticable under power but more noticable when slowly coming to a stop in neutral. For some reason it tends to become even less noticeable after the car has been driven around for a bit. I also took it to an empty car park and did a few tight figure 8's under power to see if I get any cluncking which may indicate a problem but I heard nothing. Was as quite in the turns as it was on the straight line. So I've decided to drive around for amybe a week or 2 with the current diff oil, then drain it out again to make sure the diff was properly flushed of any crap that was in there and then I might fill it back up again with a slightly thicker redline oil such as the 75W110 and see if that quitens it down.

I dont think diff whine automatically means ur diff is gonna blow up at the next traffic lights lol I mean it might if its very noisy which could indicate something is broken in there, but slight whine may be occuring due to some of the gears wearing out and the tolerance stack up between the meshing gears going out of wack slightly. I think if that is the case, thicker fluid may mask the noise to some extent.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but thats what I found from all the reading I have done on the net and after taking to a few reps from Torsen in the states.

Once I get the thicker fluid in there I will let you guys know if theres any improvment... or if my diff blows up in the meatime, I'll be sure to tell you about that as well :)

[s2kjn]

I guess every case is different, but still a common problem for the crown & pinions for s2k's. I had the exact same issue as you, the whining noise was variable, until I found that the pinion had a massive chunk taken out of it.

[pilotb777_300]

I guess every case is different, but still a common problem for the crown & pinions for s2k's. I had the exact same issue as you, the whining noise was variable, until I found that the pinion had a massive chunk taken out of it.

hmmm the thing is if you go to a diff specialist to get ur diff inspected, how would they know whats wrong with your diff without taking it apart ? and I would think u wont get much change of 1000 bucks labour to take one of those things apart and put back together again....

[s2kjn]

Thats true, but either risk 1k, and fix the problem for another 1.5, (if you had the same issue as I did) or spend 5k on a new diff

[dc2r-0636]

is that a diff from honda price $5,000 ? seems a bit steep lol.

cant you just upgrade ur diff to a cusco diff or something ?

[JAP-S2K]

Age..... sounds like a wheel bearing to me. Can't believe while you had the diff apart, you didn't change your final drive. Super easy mod to do.

Also thought i'd mention, that though Crown and Pinion wheel failure is common in our cars, don't blame them directly for failing, and changing them alone isn't the way to fix the problem, as there's more to it than just that. Like most cases, for every failure there's a reason why crown or pinion (sometimes both) wheels fail. This all starts from the OEM crush collar being a bit weak and they collapse over time and/or through consistent abuse (this being the main cause), This then leads to excessive float which causes/is backlash, which applies more stress to both crown and pinion wheels as neither are correctly aligned when under load. And in most cases premature wearing start's on the edges of the teeth, when this begin's naturally you have plenty of metal matter in the oil and this travels though your bearing thus causing even faster wear, thus where the diff will by now be whining, by this stage it's all too late, and you'll be up for a full rebuild. Now most diff specialists will replace or make a new collar when they rebuild your diff. My hats off to those that choose to rebuild it themselves, just remember to check the collar, better still replace it, replace all the bearing and have the LSD chemically cleaned of all existing oil and matter. Otherwise your home build will be pointless.

Also, i've known of plenty of rebuilt S2K diff's including my own, a full rebuild should not cost you more than about $500-$600, this will include all bearings, seals, remove and check LSD centre, replacement pinion collar, and fluids. This wont include new crown and pinion wheels.

[pilotb777_300]

Age..... sounds like a wheel bearing to me. Can't believe while you had the diff apart, you didn't change your final drive. Super easy mod to do.

Also thought i'd mention, that though Crown and Pinion wheel failure is common in our cars, don't blame them directly for failing, and changing them alone isn't the way to fix the problem, as there's more to it than just that. Like most cases, for every failure there's a reason why crown or pinion (sometimes both) wheels fail. This all starts from the OEM crush collar being a bit weak and they collapse over time and/or through consistent abuse (this being the main cause), This then leads to excessive float which causes/is backlash, which applies more stress to both crown and pinion wheels as neither are correctly aligned when under load. And in most cases premature wearing start's on the edges of the teeth, when this begin's naturally you have plenty of metal matter in the oil and this travels though your bearing thus causing even faster wear, thus where the diff will by now be whining, by this stage it's all too late, and you'll be up for a full rebuild. Now most diff specialists will replace or make a new collar when they rebuild your diff. My hats off to those that choose to rebuild it themselves, just remember to check the collar, better still replace it, replace all the bearing and have the LSD chemically cleaned of all existing oil and matter. Otherwise your home build will be pointless.

Also, i've known of plenty of rebuilt S2K diff's including my own, a full rebuild should not cost you more than about $500-$600, this will include all bearings, seals, remove and check LSD centre, replacement pinion collar, and fluids. This wont include new crown and pinion wheels.

I drove the car again today and the whine is still the same no better and no worse... it just whines through 3000-4000rpm and then either stops or the engine noise drowns the sound to the point where I can no longer hear it. Also when I changed my oil there wasnt much in terms of metal particles in the oil. There was a small film of shavings on the magnetic drain plug but thats it. I couldnt see anything unusual in the oil other than it being very thick and very black.

What would be ur recommendation now ? should I keep driving and see if the noise gets any worse or get it off the rd till I have someone look at it ? I'd also like to add that the whine is only noticable with the windows up and radio off... its not loud enough (yet) to be heard with the roof down unless ur really listening out for it. Also Its been like this for 2 or 3 month now without anything blowing up ! Mind you though, I never change gears hard at high RPM and I've never launched the car before...

[JAP-S2K]

Without actually hearing the whine or how loud it is? There's no way I could give you an accurate answer. However your saying the whine is noticable between 3 to 4 and not noticable after...... TBH it doesn't sound like what i was talking about. When the final drive gears are worn, the whine is very noticable and usually more noticable with the roof down, and only gets louder as you increase speed. So if it's only just noticable, i wouldn't sweat to much just yet. How many km/s has your car travelled? Also if it's rpm related (eg. does the noise between 3-4 in any gear), it ain't your diff.

[pilotb777_300]

Without actually hearing the whine or how loud it is? There's no way I could give you an accurate answer. However your saying the whine is noticable between 3 to 4 and not noticable after...... TBH it doesn't sound like what i was talking about. When the final drive gears are worn, the whine is very noticable and usually more noticable with the roof down, and only gets louder as you increase speed. So if it's only just noticable, i wouldn't sweat to much just yet. How many km/s has your car travelled? Also if it's rpm related (eg. does the noise between 3-4 in any gear), it ain't your diff.

Car has 85K KM on the clock. it definetely doesnt get louder as I increase speed lol. It will wine in any gear between 3000rpm and maybe 5000 rpm then will stop whining. For example in 6th gear on the freeway I can hear the whine accelerating from 90-95km/h then once I've hit 100km/h no more whine.... its really weird... !

I changed the gear oil today to Nulon 80W140 to see if it helps but really it made no difference. I could sometimes hear the diff whining a little while slowing down in neutral but that has now disapeared with this new oil. Not sure yet if I will keep it long term in the car as I dont know how good/bad it is for the diff...

As far as volume goes... with windows down and music on I can only hear the whine faintly in the back ground...

thanks again for all the replies ! if you have any more suggestions please let me know

Cheers

[Age_S2000]

jap-s2k i didnt change the ratio because the car is forsale after summer and i ordered the wheel bearing so i pick it up monday n we will c how we go :) fingers crossed :D

[JAP-S2K]

it definetely doesnt get louder as I increase speed lol. It will wine in any gear between 3000rpm and maybe 5000 rpm then will stop whining. For example in 6th gear on the freeway I can hear the whine accelerating from 90-95km/h then once I've hit 100km/h no more whine.... its really weird... !


It ain't your diff. Diff noises are generally speed related, not rpm related.... so i guess it's a good thing. Also there's nothing wrong with using a slightly thicker oil in a diff that's seen higher km/s.

Age, i've got a problem with one of my rear wheel bearings ATM, i've changed it twice in the last 6months and it's gone again. I torqued it as per service manual, yet it still fails....... i think it's time for a new hub assembly.