CIVIC EK4/EK9 VS TOYOTA AE111 Levin BZR

[davidvtec]

Im having a discussion with my mate about which is better and faster and has a more variety of brand parts to buy from. he wants to buy a AE111 BZR and his reason was because there faster and qiucker than my or other EK4/9 out there.

and to back his reason up, he showed me this youtube clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5le-OcHFt0

and i was honestly suprised the AE111 beat the EK.

so im not sure which is actually better :S

in terms on looks, i reckin the ek4/9 shits on the bzr !

I WANA HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS ! which is better overall

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af2/David_Vtec/1999-ae111-bzr-100k.jpg

VS.

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af2/David_Vtec/ek9-11.jpg

[DNYALL]

it was only the b16a though. doesn't surprise me. b16b prob would of beat it. or a b18c. But anyway, i would guess that aftermarket support for the EK would be a lot bigger than the AE111. But the AE111 would be a rarer car too see in Aus which is a always good to see. Plenty of EK's out there so i guess to stand out a little bit, get the AE. EK looks a lot better though imo but then i am Biased :p

[~Sp33~]

AE111>EK9

They're quicker, better engine, rarer and unique.

Only the Honda Fanboys will say otherwise, and that's obviously who this thread is appealing to being in a forum like this.

[fabezzz]

Id take the AE111 over a ek4 but i like the look of the ek9 better.

[davidvtec]

wow im suprised you guys prefer the AE111 ! altho they are really overpriced these days so maybe thats why we rarely see them, especially the ones with sunroof are probably 11k + D: i guess my mate probably was right about the BZRs, damn !

[jdm_kid]

EK has more styling ..

[blabla]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9A8NaZ5FuA&feature=related

[Riviera]

lol i grew up in nz so lookin at a AE111 aint much chop show me one with a turbo sitting out the bonnet like i seen in christchurch legally driving around, then i'll be impressed lol

honestly most of the EK's are trashed around here if theyre costing the same price get the toyota, all comes down to what you want out of it...
both are mildly aggressive lookin cars in standard form just takes rims and a set of wing lifters to change that with a EK9 though...

cams in a B series is a alot of fun though, more parts readily available.... do some research make ur AE111 the head turner build and soon enough
might have everyone doing the same...

[davidvtec]

lol i grew up in nz so lookin at a AE111 aint much chop show me one with a turbo sitting out the bonnet like i seen in christchurch legally driving around, then i'll be impressed lol

honestly most of the EK's are trashed around here if theyre costing the same price get the toyota, all comes down to what you want out of it...
both are mildly aggressive lookin cars in standard form just takes rims and a set of wing lifters to change that with a EK9 though...

cams in a B series is a alot of fun though, more parts readily available.... do some research make ur AE111 the head turner build and soon enough
might have everyone doing the same...

i agree with you Rivera, hondas these days are getin thrashed to the days haha, and the toyotas are a rare car and kept sensibly (Y) i gota admit, ever since the turbo law came out here, vtec cars became so much more popular evn the lebos are driving it to replace there rexii's hahaha

[mugen_ctr]

Just to throw fuel to the fire, how about pulsar VZ-R? its faster than ek9, more power, same weight

ae111 hands down, factory itbs make it that more appealing over ek9, appearance wise, both are quite good looker, so its up to what u call is good looking, both are equally good on the track and, ek9's are rare, and not talking about the rebirths as ek1's, but rego as ek9, so really both are rare lol

part wise, rare as! importing parts is only the real way as my brothers mate has one, but ae101

[davidvtec]

hey ive never seen a pulsar VZ-R rollin in NSW before ! but importing one would be a hassle.. and expensive..

[mugen_ctr]

well not expensive, around the 10-13k mark, give or take, there were a few imported in aus already, they are available for import since 07 or 08, but very few ppl know of them, and there potential... but same said with ae111

[eg5civic]

AE111>EK9

They're quicker, better engine, rarer and unique.

Only the Honda Fanboys will say otherwise, and that's obviously who this thread is appealing to being in a forum like this.

You really think so, i find the ae111 to be quite ugly, and with rear end that looks like an unappealing s15
As for quicker, yeah maybe, better engine? how?

Rare and unique yes, but i've been in a 20v ke70, and it wasnt that quick.....

[DC2-PWR]

Levins are slow man, looks good tho.

I'd say your EK would chop it :).

Good luck on info,

[~Sp33~]

You really think so, i find the ae111 to be quite ugly, and with rear end that looks like an unappealing s15
As for quicker, yeah maybe, better engine? how?

There's just something about having more power, more valves, and more throttle bodys. Seems to make an engine better in my eyes.


Rare and unique yes, but i've been in a 20v ke70, and it wasnt that quick.....

Personal experience vs actual data. *shrug*

[pablos8]

I've driven both cars and much prefer the ae111, love the shifter, styling, handling and it goes pretty hard

[eg5civic]

so you've driven an ek9?

a b16b pulls way harder than a b16a, trust me on that.

ITB's and more power just mean it was more performance oriented from factory.....

As for my personal experience, he has weird gearing (so he says) and its running rough (so he says) but to compare, my stock tune is nothing great and he still has some sort of tune.

End of the day, its personal preference, but i think vtec pulls way harder and is alot more efficient than vvt at making power

[davidvtec]

wow im suprised with how many people would prefer the ae111 ! cant wait to test drive my mates one !

[davidvtec]

End of the day, its personal preference, but i think vtec pulls way harder and is alot more efficient than vvt at making power

plus vtec sounds sexy.. :)

[eg5civic]

as for more power... they are rated at 170hp and the b16b at 185hp are they not?

Put quads on the b16b and a better tune and where will the ae111 be?

Call me a vtec fanboy, but i remember the first time i saw an ITR hit vtec and fly [ast it made me say i want VTEC.
VVT does have a good sound, but nowhere near the same crossover sound.

[grifty]

wow im suprised you guys prefer the AE111 ! altho they are really overpriced these days so maybe thats why we rarely see them, especially the ones with sunroof are probably 11k + D: i guess my mate probably was right about the BZRs, damn !

so you dont think ek9's are overpriced?

[davidvtec]

so you dont think ek9's are overpriced?

meant the ek4 compared to the ae111 on that post (Y)

[VT3C]

I was driving home on Friday and came past one of these - i thought it was an S15 that was washed with hot water LOL.. but it had a nice set of Work rims, dumped on it's a55 and had a nice under-axle f@rt cannon.. Looked quite good I thought but dont really know anything about them untill I read this thread this morning :)

nobody has REAL specs on them ??

My friend had an AE86 with the 20V in it and man that thing would definately give any DOHC VTEC a run for it's money in terms of SOUND but it only seemed to be as quick as my D16Y1.. ?? and i'd say an AE86 would be lighter ? but then that's RWD...

[TheSaint]

Toyota Caldena GT-Four ftw

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/2002_Toyota_Caldina_02.jpg

[davidvtec]

those Caldina's gt-four go hard, but not my kinda style tho.. and theres not actually many of these in australia i think.. ive never seen one in nsw

[RR-04-RR]

AE111 for sure!! i mean. the EK9 is alot better but dont expect one for sale anytime soon

i've driven an EK4, EK9, AE111 but not the VZ-R (in NZ)
the AE111 def give a EK9, DC2R a run for its money
I find the AE111 sexy as, def prefer that over an EK4, but also living in NZ 2 years ago, i noticed that the AE111 are horrible sounding once an exhaust is put on

also VZ-R can be found a some import dealerships

[DNYALL]

woh, didn't know that pulsar even existed :O sweet car. I just checked carsales and there is one for sale in QLD, modded pretty terrible though...

I reckon the Ae111 looks pretty ugly also :/

[davidvtec]

same hahaha i didnt noe the pulsar existed until it was mentioned here, the pulsar actually looks qiute good ! i wuldnt mind drivin it

for those who havnt heard of the Nissan Pulsar VZ-R. its basically a 2-door version hatchback N15 Pulsar with some real power in it, here are some pics of it:
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af2/David_Vtec/nissan_lucino_13705.jpg
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af2/David_Vtec/vzr.jpg
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af2/David_Vtec/21288120001_large.jpg

enjoy (Y)

[~Sp33~]

ITB's and more power just mean it was more performance oriented from factory.....

Perhaps that's why i like it. I can see why you're partial to the b16b.

These threads just make everyone get on their B-andwagon and whinge about why everyone else doesn't like what they do. OP, buy the EK if you're in to Hondas, buy the Toyota if you like Toyotas.

[mugen_ctr]

Vzr would give any ek9 owners a run for their money, sure it may not have that rawness from a b16b, but the sr16ve is still a good motor as b16.... As much as the ek9 is a good looking, an fast hatch back, id take the vzr any day, yea im a sucker for nissans :P

But at the end of the day, as said, if u like honda, go ek9, nissan for vzr and toyota for corolla

[TheSaint]

isnt there an AWD SR20DET bluebird and pulsar variant?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Nissan_U13_Bluebird_SSS_ATTESA.jpg/800px-Nissan_U13_Bluebird_SSS_ATTESA.jpg

http://www.sunrisejdmmotors.com/images/cars/fvA6pjwqyx6d.jpg

[dc292177917]

i would be a bit more fair to compare EM1 with AE111
anyway i would prefer the look of AE111
but then if u want to build it up EK/EM would be a better choice since the parts are readily available (Y)

[ninzee]

the ae111 for sure
looks and sounds great ( the ones iv seen driving)
just outa curiosity what wheels are on the a111 in the original post and would they be 4x100 or 4x114
if they are 4x100 where can i get some lol

[AE092]

Quit your hating on Toyota's! Kudos to those that actually know something about an AE111. For starters, the BZ-R is the last of the Levin's to sport the latest generation 4AGE's (black top 20 valve with quad throttle bodies from stock, supposedly makes 127 flywheel kw). The earlier gen AE101's had silver top 20 valves with around 121kw. BZ-R's, aren't such a bad car for the money you pay, you get decent sized brakes (twin piston calipers front), susperstrut suspension and if you look hard enough, a close-ratio 6 speed transmission with the option LSD from factory.

The Pulsar VZ-R is quite docile, it's has the SR20 in N/A form that revs to about 8500rpm and has VVL, very similar to VTEC.

[AE092]

the ae111 for sure
looks and sounds great ( the ones iv seen driving)
just outa curiosity what wheels are on the a111 in the original post and would they be 4x100 or 4x114
if they are 4x100 where can i get some lol

Ninzee they look like Wedsport wheels to me, AE111's have a stud pattern of 4 x 100.

[vampzzz]

trung, the vz-r pulsar have sr16ve NA.

[davidvtec]

Quit your hating on Toyota's! Kudos to those that actually know something about an AE111. For starters, the BZ-R is the last of the Levin's to sport the latest generation 4AGE's (black top 20 valve with quad throttle bodies from stock, supposedly makes 127 flywheel kw). The earlier gen AE101's had silver top 20 valves with around 121kw. BZ-R's, aren't such a bad car for the money you pay, you get decent sized brakes (twin piston calipers front), susperstrut suspension and if you look hard enough, a close-ratio 6 speed transmission with the option LSD from factory.

The Pulsar VZ-R is quite docile, it's has the SR20 in N/A form that revs to about 8500rpm and has VVL, very similar to VTEC.

some very useful info there ! you definitely know your toyotas haha but yeah the vz-r has a sr16ve NA like vampzzz pointed out :)

[davidvtec]

qiute a few people here preferring the ae111, which reallly suprises me haha i still prefer the EKs and honda OVERALL. the ae111 kinda it looks like a baby version of an s15 lmao

[ninzee]

qiute a few people here preferring the ae111, which reallly suprises me haha i still prefer the EKs and honda OVERALL. the ae111 kinda it looks like a baby version of an s15 lmao

thats different to what your asking lol
i prefer honda over toyota
but i prefer the ae111 over the ek

[AE092]

trung, the vz-r pulsar have sr16ve NA.
Yeh my mistake, it was late when I typed it. Also, it red line starts at 7500rpm and not 8500rpm as I said.


some very useful info there ! you definitely know your toyotas haha but yeah the vz-r has a sr16ve NA like vampzzz pointed out :)
Yeh I'm a Toyota man and it's good rivalry when racing at the 'tracks.

[mugen_ctr]

Em1 cant match the speed an handling of ae111, as ae111 is simply better well equiped over all, using superstruts an all other stuff to make it handle as good as ek9, but my god they sound terrible with a full exhaust system, maybe its just my ears, its a shame, cause i would opted to buy a ae111, but insurance was just to much, sense they are imports, and there aint many around, i was looking at paying closes to 4-5k!!!!! annually, way too much lol

sr16ve vs b16b, i think thats what most ponder about, lol, for me b16b hands down, overall package, Vz-R

Btw, ae101 came supercharged as well, yet the newer 4age with itb makes the same power, food for thought lol

[DreadAngel]

Ladies n Gents, lemme give you a headsup... Having been on both sides of the fence ;)

Factory Engine Battle - Firstly AE111's 4A-GE 20V aka Blacktop claimed to make 165PS/162HP but it's known that it puts out only about 152PS/150HP if in good condition. Honda however to my knowledge didn't overrate their engines, they were actually quite accurate with the B16A 170PS/168HP and B16B 185PS/182HP. Torque however, 20V has more torque low, mid and at peak too making daily driving much easier and easy on the wallet too. You can smack the 20V all day and still achieve ~9.0L/100km, can't do that with a B16A/B though ;)

Stock Comparo

AE111 v EG6 - You'll be surprised or might not be surprised, but the very first AE111 came out the same time as the last EG6 SiR-II. On the track, EG6 can't compete simply because of the AE111's better chassis and footwork. I can't remember a comparison on the drag strip.

AE111 v EM1/EK4 - EM1/EK4 loses out in every aspect to the AE111, both on the track and on the drag strip. I think this has to do with the B16A2 and the weight (especially the EM1) and how the AE111 BZ-R is more focused?

AE111 v EK9 - AE111 BZ-R v EK9 is a close comparison with both cars having comparable chassis and footwork imo, yes I've driven an EK9 before thank you. EK9 plays ball with you, more nimble/agile and light on its feet, AE111 a little more planted I suppose you could say though I suspect Hatch v Coupe ie Weight distribution and wheel base is a key factor too. The biggest difference is the 4A-GE 20V Blacktop v B16B, the power difference makes the difference here, EK9 simply outpowers the AE111 BZ.

AE111 v DC2R - Funny comparison actually... AE111 is NOT a competitor to the DC2R however having had DC2R owners drive my car, they say it feels and behaves like their car except engine power and torque obviously no where near the same, then again B18C kills any 4A-GE/B16A/B in all aspects anyway.

Aftermarket Support - Honda wins hands down, taken in around the world (Both EG/EK Chassis + B16A I'm talking about here) while the AE111 is exclusive to the JDM market only, you might find some parts for the Blacktop outside of Japan but almost all parts for the AE111 needs to be sourced from Japan itself. If you're smart though, you'll find Kiwi love their AE111s and you'll find nicely priced 2nd hand parts ;)

Hope that clears it up ;)

Btw OP, that's a very gingerly quarter for the AE111... You'll find most stock AE111 BZ-G/BZ-R doing low 15s with an average pilot though it is possible to go lower if you get it right... high 14s territory.

[davidvtec]

^^ whoa mate, did ya homework didnt ya LOL thats some good info right there mate good work (Y)

[AE092]

^^ whoa mate, did ya homework didnt ya LOL thats some good info right there mate good work (Y)

He owns an AE111

[mugen_ctr]

pricing for ek9 is still in 20k mark! and not the rebirth ones... as opposed to ae111, mid 15k an lower... which is priced match to ek4/em1, but in reality no one would pay that much for ek9, unless ur some hardcore fanatic lol

[davidvtec]

i dont actually know how a ek4 b16 goes cause i never drove one. i own a ek4 that has a rebuilt b18 engine that flies. thats why i was suprised the ek4 was defeated in the video. now i understand why

[mugen_ctr]

for a good one, 120,000kms or below is still around the 10-13k, em1s still fetch higher premium, around 12-15k last time i checked....

[shadou]

He owns an AE111

wouldn't have been a black ae111 bzr with blue front fenders trolling box hill would it ?

[DreadAngel]

Nope...

I'm located in Sydney with a White AE111 BZ-R ;)

EK chassis, isn't as light as the EG chassis so a B16A2 won't move it with much guts at all. EK with B18 minimal if you want to get a hustle on ;)

[ninzee]

I think I see you around broadway sometimes usually near ultimo tafe

[DreadAngel]

^^^

That's my friend's car or his ex-car ;)

My 111 has a simple lip kit and TRD Spoiler =)

[ninzee]

ohh lol
thats a nice 1 my jaw dropped when i saw it i was like i fukd up

[davidvtec]

^^^

That's my friend's car or his ex-car ;)

My 111 has a simple lip kit and TRD Spoiler =)

:O where do you get your TRD spoiler from? my mate is after one of thosee

[DreadAngel]

I got mine from NZ but the seller doesn't do it anymore...

[SuperJDM.]

Yoey knows his cars :)

[davidvtec]

Reviving my old thread.

My friend who has a AE111, apparently his done his research and because the car is 'super-strut' it wont allow the car to run any sort of camber kit. Front or rear. I'm just wondering if you guys know anyone or seen anything, AE111 camber kits available. Then please notify me asap!! Ive emailed a number of manufactures like Hardrace and such and they seem to dont make em for this model, only for the AE86 only.

Thanks

[AE092]

I just sold my Cusco AE92/101/111 camber tops today. The AE111's run Super Strut suspension but can run the camber tops - it's a pity as I sold the camber tops for stupidly cheap

[davidvtec]

I just sold my Cusco AE92/101/111 camber tops today. The AE111's run Super Strut suspension but can run the camber tops - it's a pity as I sold the camber tops for stupidly cheap

Ohhh okk, damn.. Any idea where i can get these parts from?

Cheers man

[EG52NV]

I found it odd people said an ae111 would give a dc2r a run for it's money, the 2 cars aren't even in the same league

[AndreaCivic]

looks wise BZ-R cant hold a candle to the dc2r or em1, to compare it to the ek is like comparing apples with oranges, purely from a styling stand point.
there is some good standard equipment on the BZ-R in a mechanical sense. i've never read or heard anything about this car before, it's hard to deny that the dc2r has achieved such high acclaim locally & internationally.

[immigymp]

Go the vzr n1 .... Fast practical and a sleeper

Just some food for thought

There is not that much aftermarket support for that variant of engine as there would be with the Honda s .

The 2 ltr of that engine with a Nissan "type r" cam makes around 130-135kw atw, these engines don't have forged internals and are not polished and ported from factory. The 2 lr only runs 10.3 :1 compression as well

I had a friend pick up a vzr for 6k the other day a well...

The vzr also comes in the autech version which is a 2nd without the vtec but is apparently still good.

Hope this helps

[immigymp]

I meant 2 ltr for the autech..

[GSi_PSi]

that video ek4 vs levin 16 seconds quarter mile ? ive seen stock ek4 in australia go low 15's...

[shake]

I must admit I didn't bother reading all the pages of this thread, but I've owned a 99' Trueno BZR.
They are quite quick, with the factory close ratio 6 speed, LSD and black top 20v (123kW). I have known them to run 15.3-15.4 sec quarters stock paper air filters etc.

In respose to the above it does show a levin doing a 16 sec quarter. But unless its a BZR its got no close ratio 6 speed, no LSD and no hope against a CTR or ITR.