Just got suspended and lost my licence for 6mths AND NEED ADVICE PLEASE!!

[deejay]

just got suspended not long ago ffrom having a licence and got a fine = 1,865$$$
and on top of that 6 moths suspention and im on my red p's just wondering what can i doo any advice i was doing about 180km on a 70 zone and yes im a dumb **** i know that save you guys from telling me that
but the cops didnt get my speed cause they came from behind i didnt speed past them they saw me speed and chase me then pulled me over wen i turned left and they asked me how fast i was going and i said i dnt know how fast & wasnt looking soo they got me for 45 and over so really i got done for 125km but i was doing more, any advice ? by any chance can i get a shorter period of suspention or can i make the fine cheaper? go court and fight it or just pay and wait ?

[muzukashi]

Not really just pay it & wait it out and most of all dont do it again

when shit like this happens just think about it and know it could've been way worse learn from your mistakes and move on.

[waix]

just go to court and pay it dude, you're in the wrong here no doubt about that

[im.Kusuma]

ur fukn lucky only 6 months.. i got 16months suspension, $6.5k fine for doing 192km/h on a 100 zone. Lost it 3 days after i got my reds..

Consider ur self lucky and dont ever do it again.

[MWAKU]

how deep are your pockets. the better the lawyer/barista/solictor, the more $$ they cost, the higher the chances of you getting better off (lowering suspension and fine) , MAYBE

otherwise u can voluntarily take the TOIP program hope that magistrate gives u credit for this, and lowers ur sentence.. slightly.

u can also ask to do the payment plan for this, where once u get ur notice of payment (second one) you call SDRO or w/e and ask for a payment plan. but this doesnt lower ur fine, just lets you pay it off over a period of time. and pretty sure you will still have lost ur license since it was immediate (if it wasnt immediate you woulda lost it once u finished paying ur fine)

lol :)

but u should probably take the 6months off the road.. ur an idiot.

[im.Kusuma]

ur an idiot.

:thumbsup:

and op, if u get suspended again, for more than 12 months, u are not eligible to get your reds back unless you go through your L's again, like me.. lol

[deejay]

lol yes im a idiot :) nothing too be proud of :(
any yea dnt think im going too be speeding again do i have too go to court even tho i pay the fine its a first so yea help me out please dnt know much havnt been court before for anything :)

[Nismo3oi]

you probably could of said you weren't speeding, they can't do much when they havn't radared you. I got pulled over once, just kept denying it and was let go. But 180KMPH is just wow especially for a 70KM zone. Just pay the fine and cop it, not point going further as your on your red Ps and will most likely lose anyway.

[deejay]

did you speed past them ? and they got your speed ?

[deejay]

true but that why they just gave me 45 and over they didnt catch my speed just saw me speed down the road and chase after me and i said i didnt see how fast i was going they kept asking me and yea i just said i dnt know i wasnt look and they gave me 45 and over

[deejay]

6.5k? **** why so much ? did you get defected too ?

[deejay]

you probably could of said you weren't speeding, they can't do much when they havn't radared you. I got pulled over once, just kept denying it and was let go. But 180KMPH is just wow especially for a 70KM zone. Just pay the fine and cop it, not point going further as your on your red Ps and will most likely lose anyway.

ue but that why they just gave me 45 and over they didnt catch my speed just saw me speed down the road and chase after me and i said i didnt see how fast i was going they kept asking me and yea i just said i dnt know i wasnt look and they gave me 45 and over

[deejay]

ur fukn lucky only 6 months.. i got 16months suspension, $6.5k fine for doing 192km/h on a 100 zone. Lost it 3 days after i got my reds..

Consider ur self lucky and dont ever do it again.

6.5k? **** why so much ? did you get defected too ?

[deejay]

ur fukn lucky only 6 months.. i got 16months suspension, $6.5k fine for doing 192km/h on a 100 zone. Lost it 3 days after i got my reds..

Consider ur self lucky and dont ever do it again.

did you speed past them ? and they got your speed ?

[deejay]

you probably could of said you weren't speeding, they can't do much when they havn't radared you. I got pulled over once, just kept denying it and was let go. But 180KMPH is just wow especially for a 70KM zone. Just pay the fine and cop it, not point going further as your on your red Ps and will most likely lose anyway.

true but that why they just gave me 45 and over they didnt catch my speed just saw me speed down the road and chase after me and i said i didnt see how fast i was going they kept asking me and yea i just said i dnt know i wasnt look and they gave me 45 and over

[Mr_will]

ur fukn lucky only 6 months.. i got 16months suspension, $6.5k fine for doing 192km/h on a 100 zone. Lost it 3 days after i got my reds..

Consider ur self lucky and dont ever do it again.



proof of fine or it didn't happen.


whoever told OP he will get legal aid is dreaming - he isn't facing a term of imprisonment, so he ain't getting legal aid.

if this is your first traffic offence then there may be a benefit in speaking to a solicitor about the matter and electing to go to court. if you complete the traffic offenders program the magistrate may reduce the monetary penalty and period of suspension, but remember there are mandatory suspension periods for most offences - the magistrate has no power to reduce the period of suspension beyond this.

[im.Kusuma]

6.5k? **** why so much ? did you get defected too ?

lol nah, they just focused more on my driving offences and shit like that..
lol.. Not funny man if u get arrested on the spot and getting a ride on a santa clause's car to his warehouse.. lol

Just good luck in court.

[deejay]

ur fukn lucky only 6 months.. i got 16months suspension, $6.5k fine for doing 192km/h on a 100 zone. Lost it 3 days after i got my reds..

Consider ur self lucky and dont ever do it again.

6.5k? **** why so much ? did you get defected too ?
did you speed past them ? and they got your speed ?

[Nismo3oi]

dont know and you didn't look pretty much says your guilty. They couldnt have proven you were speeding, its too late now just pay and cop it.

[R8D R]

umm if they didnt get your speed on radar then they cant prove how fast u were going and they really shouldnt be able to get you..

i had sped past cops once , got pulled over, they didnt have a radar to prove my speed so they let me off, i got lucky !

[deejay]

lol nah, they just focused more on my driving offences and shit like that..
lol.. Not funny man if u get arrested on the spot and getting a ride on a santa clause's car to his warehouse.. lol

Just good luck in court.

do you have to pay for court ? and do you have to go within 28 days or somthing like that ?

[deejay]

proof of fine or it didn't happen.


whoever told OP he will get legal aid is dreaming - he isn't facing a term of imprisonment, so he ain't getting legal aid.

if this is your first traffic offence then there may be a benefit in speaking to a solicitor about the matter and electing to go to court. if you complete the traffic offenders program the magistrate may reduce the monetary penalty and period of suspension, but remember there are mandatory suspension periods for most offences - the magistrate has no power to reduce the period of suspension beyond this.

yea its my first, so you reckon i should go too see a solicitor? and do you have to pay to go court?

[deejay]

umm if they didnt get your speed on radar then they cant prove how fast u were going and they really shouldnt be able to get you..

i had sped past cops once , got pulled over, they didnt have a radar to prove my speed so they let me off, i got lucky !
thats lucky :) only if i got lucky guess it wasnt my night :(

[Mr_will]

yea its my first, so you reckon i should go too see a solicitor? and do you have to pay to go court?

yes, but costs in the local court are generally $76.

it is possible that you could receive a harsher penalty if the court sees fit.

also keep in mind that getting good representation will cost you around $1500-$2500. Anyone who says they will do it for less than that probably isnt worth paying.

[deejay]

yes, but costs in the local court are generally $76.

it is possible that you could receive a harsher penalty if the court sees fit.

also keep in mind that getting good representation will cost you around $1500-$2500. Anyone who says they will do it for less than that probably isnt worth paying. well if its going too cost like 1.5 to 2.5 is it better just to cop the fine and 6mths ?

[AE092]

I'm pretty sure they speed detection on the fly, i.e they don't have to be stationary to log a speed with a car in front of them. I was clearly caught out by a Highway Patrol and when I received the fine, the indicated speed was almost spot on with how fast I was travelling. In short, you got off very lucky and IMO shouldn't fight it. Take it as a man, you were clearly in the wrong so just pay your dues.

[Mr_will]

well if its going too cost like 1.5 to 2.5 is it better just to cop the fine and 6mths ?

correct.

and yes it's correct to say that a police car doesn't need to be stationary in order to book you, lol.

[deejay]

I'm pretty sure they speed detection on the fly, i.e they don't have to be stationary to log a speed with a car in front of them. I was clearly caught out by a Highway Patrol and when I received the fine, the indicated speed was almost spot on with how fast I was travelling. In short, you got off very lucky and IMO shouldn't fight it. Take it as a man, you were clearly in the wrong so just pay your dues.

thanks for the advice :) guess im paying the fine then i was in the wrong im just lucky i didnt die that night anyways thanks for your help everyone

[im.Kusuma]

Good for admitting it. Pay it.. I didn't bother hiring a lawyer etc etc, just told them what I did so its done and off my back.

[grifty]

looks like ur gonna be getting used to public transport lol

[Troy]

You should go to court, represent yourself and tell them the real speed you were doing. I hope they ban you for at least 12 months... and more fines. Wake up to yourself man! My wife and children go out on those roads.

[flipfire]

Even if you had the a high priced solicitor, you still have no solid defense to stand on so youll end up paying him hundreds to thousands just to plead a case you could have done yourself.

Just go to court on your own, plead guilty and ask to reduce the fine and/or setup a payment plan. His/her honour will go ape sh!t at you for a few minutes then look at your priors (driving history, criminal record) and current circumstances (eg. employment, studying).

Make a sob statement that it was a stupid thing to do and you have learnt your lesson the hard way by being unable to drive.

You cant get the suspension period reduced but you might be able to get that fine closer to $1000.

Just hope you get a female magistrate and that shes in a happy mood cause it all comes down to leniency.

Oh and wear something nice and address the magistrate politely.

[MWAKU]

um.... btw, the magistrate makes the fine on how able you are to pay it back, his not going to give u a massive fine if you state if you cannot pay it back. but by saying this, you actually need to have a lawyer with you, so he can sort it out and tell the magistrate what is your income and what of it you have left after paying bills things like that. trust me, go get a lawyer/solicitor.

ask for a section 10 aswell, but highly doubt you'll get it, but its all up to the magistrate.

honestly, go sign up at the traffic offenders program, go to court, ask for an ajournment so you can complete the course. you will learn a ****ing lot the week when you get the lawyer/solicitor lecture (i had mine tonight, very interesting, tells you all max fines you get, gaol terms, suspension shit like that)

if you have a good driving record, you might get a section 10, but its up to the magistrate. also if you have work commitments that oyu need to drive everyday to work or things like that, you can go to court, pay the fine, but ask for an appeal against the suspension either from the police or the rta.

id honestly not listen to any of these people telling you to go represent yourself, and go and get a solicitor. i am representing myself, and its not fkn ezy, have to prepare so much shit and i dont have the jist of what to say/do to get my sentence reduced.

and i wouldnt even tell em the REAL speed you were doing, if you onyl got booked for 45+ over, with no actual speed recorded, go tell em u were doing probably doing 47kmh or something, though it probably makes no difference, if ur a p-plate, probably going to go REAL hard on ya, just like me (Y).

[act_gooner]

Some advise then. Go online and print off some bus and train timetables and get to know the different routes and stops in your area. If you are a concession you get a pretty solid discount anyway!

[flipfire]

MWAKU how much did you pay your lawyer? cause all he did was fill out forms lol.

You cant get a demerit points reduced even if you need it for work. The only way you can overturn it is if you plead not guilty and win. If you plead not guilty and magistrate doesnt find your argument good enough, you will get your ass reamed with a bigger fine for wasting the courts time because they need to book another court date and summon the police officer.

ps. im not a traffic lawyer but i worked for a court transcription company and listen to this shit all day long.

[MWAKU]

im representing my self

when i say reduced, i mean as in

lets take my case, cause i forgot how long it is for speeding >45km, my first offense for novice range, the suspension 'automatic' is 6months, but the minimum suspension is 3 months, so if i have a good enough case i can get the minimum or inbetween the 3 months and 6 months, otherwise if i just go in and admit and get everything quik and ezy its 6months suspension with a maximum fine of up to 1,100$. see im going to ask for a dismissal under section 10, but i doubt ill get it because ive been done recently for speeding and red light camera, but im praying for a suspension for 3 months and a low fine, but im just praying, praying i have a nice magistrate that reads through my case word by word :)

its his first offense, and if he states things like his, if he is, low income, needs license for work, and without it he will be jobless, or if he has written statements that he drives he mum and dad to here and there an a set schedule's because they cannot get there themselves, or he has some medical problems, its up to the magistrate to see whats fit for him. if his lucky he can just pay the fine and appeal the suspension, but im pretty sure his getting both a police and RTA suspension, meaning that he will get suspended eventually, but for obviously less time, rather then if he doesn't appeal. the thing is that ur chances of him getting a section 10 is pretty low, but its all up to the magistrate.

and isn't it when ur doing 45km+ you have to go court? if so then he NEEDS to get seek legal advice....

i was just sitting in the lecture room with the solicitor telling us everything, and although i dont remember everything 100%, thats what i can recall and yeh.

[flipfire]

sorry yeah your right, i confused suspension period with demerit points. Once the points are there magistrate cant do anything.

[SajadEG]

damn what car were u driving, and where was this???

[Samm928]

goodluck with it all. your lucky doing those speeds without any pedestrians or other drivers werent injured etc.

hope you learnt your lesson and you learn that you can do whatever the FKKKK you like on the track just not on the streets..

[MikeyG]

i was in your shoes aswell champ

i myself got a lawyer and my lawyer droped 3 chargers from 5 she was pro :) reduced fine, judge gave me shit

BUT please do not do the mistake i did and wear nike air max tns to court, judge (female gave me so much shit) but it was my only shoe lol my work shoe was damaged as

but what i recommend is do the driver program i didnt do it but if i did i would of gotten less sentence and less fines, if you dont have cash you have to rep yourself, dont bullshit either the judge know

good luck if you want more help pm me since ive been through this hell your going to face

[sinseven]

not sure if anyone has mentioned this but im pretty sure you shouldnt have gotten done as there was no proof as to you speeding there for they can not claim you were doing that speed limit. yes they may have seen there speedo and saw how fast they were going to get to you but unless they took a photo of there speedo at the time they got you then you shouldnt have got done. reason i point this out as it happened to a mate and they let him off as they didnt have proof at all.

[SiReal]

sinseven, if that was the case, then we may as well all speed. I think you're missing the point here though, that is - to reduce your speed so you don't lose control, crash and die.

I personally have never done 190. I've done 160 but that was on a straight freeway in the middle of nowhere, only for around 4 seconds . But the necessity of having a license in Australia is far too great.

Eitherway, just cop it, learn from your experience and be grateful nothing worse came out of this :thumbsup:

[SHOGUNOVDDRK]

but please do not do the mistake i did and wear nike air max tns to court, judge (female gave me so much shit) but it was my only shoe lol my work shoe was damaged as

bahahahahhahaaa




omg




mikey i can picture you right now!!!


Hahahahahaaaaahahaahhaaa

[sinseven]

SiReal- by all means i am not trying to say that we all should speed. just leave it to the track. all im saying is he had a case of not being done but he has and the fact this is happening is all his fault which no doubt he already knows that lol

[DuffyFD]

curiously, what were you driving?

[Mr_will]

not sure if anyone has mentioned this but im pretty sure you shouldnt have gotten done as there was no proof as to you speeding there for they can not claim you were doing that speed limit. yes they may have seen there speedo and saw how fast they were going to get to you but unless they took a photo of there speedo at the time they got you then you shouldnt have got done. reason i point this out as it happened to a mate and they let him off as they didnt have proof at all.


Um. You seem to have absolutely no idea at all of how speeding fines work. A photo of their speedo? Really?

[Mr_will]

i was in your shoes aswell champ

i myself got a lawyer and my lawyer droped 3 chargers from 5 she was pro :) reduced fine, judge gave me shit

BUT please do not do the mistake i did and wear nike air max tns to court, judge (female gave me so much shit) but it was my only shoe lol my work shoe was damaged as

but what i recommend is do the driver program i didnt do it but if i did i would of gotten less sentence and less fines, if you dont have cash you have to rep yourself, dont bullshit either the judge know

good luck if you want more help pm me since ive been through this hell your going to face


Bad advice. The best OP could get is a reduced fine. The mandatory suspension period for this offence is 6 months. The magistrate cannot reduce the suspension period below this.

[Bludger]

OP - you're an adult now, not a minor/child.

children don't have the experience or maturity to make their own decisions. Thats why there are parents or guardians to make the important decisions for you.
As an adult you have on your own accord decided to get your own license.
On your own will you have gone out in public and decided to speed 170+ km/h in a 70km/h zone? wtf.....

please don't bother us with your consequences that have stemmed from your stupid decisions.
Questions like do i have to go to court, do i have to pay fines, how much fines do i have to pay, can i get off on paying...... etc, etc.

your decisions could have seriously injured or more likely killed someone. ruined the life's of their loved ones.

in my opinion you deserve to never drive again.
you should serve jail time.

piss off dickhead

[Bludger]

I can't believe others are trying to help him.....

[jdm_70y]

OP - you're an adult now, not a minor/child.

children don't have the experience or maturity to make their own decisions. Thats why there are parents or guardians to make the important decisions for you.
As an adult you have on your own accord decided to get your own license.
On your own will you have gone out in public and decided to speed 170+ km/h in a 70km/h zone? wtf.....

please don't bother us with your consequences that have stemmed from your stupid decisions.
Questions like do i have to go to court, do i have to pay fines, how much fines do i have to pay, can i get off on paying...... etc, etc.

your decisions could have seriously injured or more likely killed someone. ruined the life's of their loved ones.

in my opinion you deserve to never drive again.
you should serve jail time.

piss off dickhead

totally agree.

[SHOGUNOVDDRK]

I can't believe others are trying to help him.....

I'm so ON-70-YU Bau

[MWAKU]

ur fukn lucky only 6 months.. i got 16months suspension, $6.5k fine for doing 192km/h on a 100 zone. Lost it 3 days after i got my reds..

Consider ur self lucky and dont ever do it again.

i just read this.. hmm

the on-the-spot fine, you will get is 1,865$ fine. and if you get convicted from the court, the fine is like 2,200$ max, for a first offense. so, if you're on ur reds, you loose ur license for 3 months, for speeding on ur reds, then u loose another 3 months for loosing all your points, then you get the 6 months disqualification from the court, where when you are disqualified, you need to reapply for ur Ls again once its time to get ur license back. so really your looking at 12 months off the road..

which is what OP is really looking at, 6 months disqualification, and 6 months suspension. so he needs to go get his Ls again, once the off-the-road period is finished.

im confused, or did u go court and just get ****ed on?

correct me if im wrong.. but .. yeh

[Mr_will]

i just read this.. hmm

the on-the-spot fine, you will get is 1,865$ fine. and if you get convicted from the court, the fine is like 2,200$ max, for a first offense. so, if you're on ur reds, you loose ur license for 3 months, for speeding on ur reds, then u loose another 3 months for loosing all your points, then you get the 6 months disqualification from the court, where when you are disqualified, you need to reapply for ur Ls again once its time to get ur license back. so really your looking at 12 months off the road..

which is what OP is really looking at, 6 months disqualification, and 6 months suspension. so he needs to go get his Ls again, once the off-the-road period is finished.

im confused, or did u go court and just get ****ed on?

correct me if im wrong.. but .. yeh


ugh. so many bush lawyers.


You don't go back to your L's after a period of suspension.

In the context we're talking about, 'suspension' and 'disqualification' are interchangeable - they are not separate concepts as your post suggests.

OP is fined $1865 and suspended for 6 months.

A lawyer will cost around $1000. It is unlikely that the fine will be reduced. As I have said before, THE PERIOD OF DISQUALIFICATION CANNOT BE REDUCED except in the case of a finding of not guilty (which isn't going to happen).

A section 10 finding is STILL A CONVICTION.

[MWAKU]

u have to go back to ur L's after you have been disqualified....

his getting disqualified if he goes to court, as disqualified means u have been convicted in court.. i never said u go back to ur Ls when u finished ur suspension

disqualified and being suspended is different. i know that

what you mean they are interchangeable. im just figuring it out, once he gets disq, does he undergo the suspension he recieves from the RTA.

[Alexplicit]

currently in the same situation. although not in a public area , not cool about that part. 45 and over. i copped it on the chin and told the police officer straight up i was in the wrong.

seriously buddy dont take this to court. you will fail massivly. the magistrate will punish you so much worse then what you have now. being on your red's and all. you should have a look at the casualty rate of drivers and have a look at how many of those are p platers. this is what the judge will tell you.

i am however curious to know when i get my licence back. i had 4 points when i got my licence taken off me . do i serve 6 months and then get my licence back?

[Mr_will]

u have to go back to ur L's after you have been disqualified....

his getting disqualified if he goes to court, as disqualified means u have been convicted in court.. i never said u go back to ur Ls when u finished ur suspension

disqualified and being suspended is different. i know that

what you mean they are interchangeable. im just figuring it out, once he gets disq, does he undergo the suspension he recieves from the RTA.


arg.
no. you do not go back to your L's if you are convicted in court. that is incorrect.

if he is convicted in court, there is not a period of disqualification, followed by the period of suspension. its the SAME as if OP did not elect to have the matter heard in court - unless the magistrate decides to increase the period of suspension.


please stop talking, you don't know what you're on about.

[MWAKU]

pretty sure if he gets convicted in court and he gets disq. so then needs to go back to his Ls.

[flipfire]

Suspension is the period you cannot drive.

Disqualification means your license is revoked and you need to go to RTA re-apply for it at the end of your disqualification period (not necessarily mean you go back to your L's). Though i have heard of people going back to their L's by order of a magistrate.

So you can get your license suspended by demerit points and then disqualified by a court.


If a demerit point licence suspension period is interrupted by a court disqualification, the unserved suspension period may need to be served at the end of the disqualification period.

If you reach or exceed your demerit point limit during a period of disqualification, you may be refused a licence when you re-apply for a licence at the end of the disqualification period. If you are refused a licence, you may be eligible to apply for a good behaviour licence instead of a period of refusal.

[Mr_will]

Suspension is the period you cannot drive.

Disqualification means your license is revoked and you need to go to RTA re-apply for it at the end of your disqualification period (not necessarily mean you go back to your L's). Though i have heard of people going back to their L's by order of a magistrate.

So you can get your license suspended by demerit points and then disqualified by a court.


no, you can also be disqualified from driving without going to court. and you can have a period of suspension altered by a court (but not lower than the minimum period).

[splintercracks]

true but that why they just gave me 45 and over they didnt catch my speed just saw me speed down the road and chase after me and i said i didnt see how fast i was going they kept asking me and yea i just said i dnt know i wasnt look and they gave me 45 and over

Coz some cops aren't tight arse douche bags. As much as some.

[Zilli]

i have a friend who got caught speeding when disqualified. He went to court, represented himself, got off the fine, but his 12 months stands.

Mr Will, can you provide me with the relevant link to any act which outlines the inability to reduce the suspension/disqualification?

It's just im trying to help him out with some contacts i have, and if i can understand the appropriate act etc etc, then i will stop wasting my time

[steve88]

so what happens if you already have an offence on your P2's (3 demerit points) then you get your license suspended for 6 months? does that mean when you get your license back you loose it for another 3 months?

[MWAKU]

i dont even understand how that would work? when it comes to green Ps, you don't get the auto suspension for speeding. so you only lose ur license from loss of points, or on the spot suspension from the cop, which comes with point loss, depending. (tho not 100% on the on the spot thing)

[MikeyG]

on the spot depends on you have done... mwaku e.g street racing etc

[MWAKU]

so, i still dont get what steves saying, if u have 3 points left, and some how u get suspended for 6 months, when u get off it, u get suspended for another 3, so 9 in total?

i dont think so.

[MWAKU]

the only thing is if, u had 3 points left, then u got an on-the-spot fine, and suspension ordered from the officer, immediately of 6 months, and also a total of more than 2 demerit points, you will loose it for that 9 months

6 months police suspension, then 3 months RTA suspension (for loss of points)

[GSi_PSi]

i had 6 months on the spot for speeding 45+ (200km in 100km zone) , i had lost 2 points already on greens 2 months later i recieved letter for another 3 months

[steve88]

i had 6 months on the spot for speeding 45+ (200km in 100km zone) , i had lost 2 points already on greens 2 months later i recieved letter for another 3 months

yeah thats what i meant, in the p2's you get auto suspended for 30km/h and over suspensions. was that 2 points just something minor gsi_psi? ie.wouldnt of lost your license cause of it?

[Ryan_Chandler]

You cannot fight the law in this case. This happened to a mate of mine only last month and he tryed to make his suspension shorter and the cops just would not allow it. Try to take some good out of this break and think that next time your behind the wheel you might not want to do such a thing... where you can get caught :p

[bennjamin]

so you got busted for a lesser speed , and a lesser fine....and you are asking if you can get off even more ?


GTFO learn a lesson.

Closed.