EG carb to efi swap now no fuel light!

[FastFwd]

Ok sorta confused atm. My low fuel warning light hasn't been working for quite some time now on my EG, Since i got my b16a installed 6 years ago or so. I was going threw some Service manuals to find the wire from the sensor to the dash to test and the manuals i have dont indicate that the EG has a warning light. But im prety sure i remember mine having one. I might have the wrong manual but i got a EG4 so if anyone can confirm the EG has a low fuel warning light and if they might have a manual they can link or send me that would be great.

Thanks

EDIT: Ok ive done some light reading on a few forums and have found that there is 1 wire missing from the three pin connection on the fuel pump that needs to be added back to the dash, fuze box or wiring harness on a CARB to EFI EG convesion. I actually dont know which wire or where it goes as of yet but i think this is my issue and this is how i solve it. I just need minor details so if anyone knows that would be great.

[bennjamin]

6 years and you have only decided to fix it now lol ?
Could be as simple as faulty/ broken bulb
In the cluster.
Check fuel sender unit and associated wiring to and from above the fuel tank. Easy to check , take off the fuel tank cover and have a look. Plug may even be loose/ disconnected

[aznstyler]

How do you know if its working or not haha

[ninzee]

How do you know if its working or not haha

bring a jerry can full of petrol around with u when ur close 2 empty and wait till u run out of fuel if the light comes on u know lol

[FastFwd]

Nah hahaha i have a 1000hp Wallbro fuel pump that as soon as the tank starts to get empty you can here it very loud. I use that as an indicator HEHHEHEHEEHE

i dont drive the car enough guys...once a fornight if that so small things like this isnt an issue with driving very rarely

[IBOOST]

best way to check if u have the warning lights is take youe cluster out, inspect and resolve.

maybe bulb is blown otherwise back to the EG service/operating manul and check then.

[FastFwd]

My complete interior is out. Everything, carpet, seats, dash door trims the lot.

Is there an easy way to just test if the bulb is blow?

[tylerjames]

Does the EK have a fuel warning light? come to think of it, I've never seen one in mine either.. haha.

[FastFwd]

My Eg deffinatly does. I had a look at the guage cluster and they light is defiantly there. How do i tell if the bulb is blown or not? do you identify it the same way you would a house globe? cos it looks fine to me.

[NEE]

Just buy a new bulb... if its blown you can tell by looking at it. If the gauge still works then the warning light should still work as they both work off the potentiometer on your fuel sender. In saying that its most likely a dead bulb.

[FastFwd]

Just buy a new bulb... if its blown you can tell by looking at it. If the gauge still works then the warning light should still work as they both work off the potentiometer on your fuel sender. In saying that its most likely a dead bulb.

Ohh so if the fuel guage is working then the bulb should work also as they are on the same circut (sender)?

bulb doesnt look blown but ill go to honda and get one tomorrow and see.

[VT3C]

I cant see why it wouldnt work just from your swap etc.. unless you switched from carby to efi tanks and lines etc ?

the good news is that USDM EG's dont have the fuel warning indicator light THAT is why you wont find them in US-spec manuals and wiring diagrams :(

[zachge]

Swap the bulb with a known working bulb from your cluster...... GO from there... process of elimination.. start with the easiest thing.

[FastFwd]

I cant see why it wouldnt work just from your swap etc.. unless you switched from carby to efi tanks and lines etc ?

the good news is that USDM EG's dont have the fuel warning indicator light THAT is why you wont find them in US-spec manuals and wiring diagrams :(

Actually i did. I went from D15b4 (twin carb) to b16a2 JDM

what does this mean? do i need to get a fuel level sensor from a efi? how can i get this working

[FastFwd]

Ok ive done some light reading and have found that there are 1 wire missing from the three pin connection on the fuel pump that needs to be added back to the dash on a CARB to EFI EG convesion. I actually dont know which wire or where it goes as of yet but i think this is my issue and this is how i solve it. I just need minor details so if anyone knows that would be great.

[jdm_b16a]

Ok ive done some light reading and have found that there are 1 wire missing from the three pin connection on the fuel pump that needs to be added back to the dash on a CARB to EFI EG convesion. I actually dont know which wire or where it goes as of yet but i think this is my issue and this is how i solve it. I just need minor details so if anyone knows that would be great.

It's not that hard!

If you have the following then you should be able to make this work:

1. EFI tank with fuel pump and low fuel warning light sender, plus a cluster that has a warning light.

The fuel pump is earthed (BLK wire) and powered by 12V when the IG1 is switched at the key for 2 secs. You hear the pump prime then switch off unless you turn the key to ON. The power wire is usually YLW/GRN and this runs from the pump to the under dash fuse box. The plug is a large grey one mounted on top of the fusebox.

The low fuel warning sender: When the fuel level drops the warning light comes on. How this works is that the sender unit generates a signal (resistance) that is cooled by the fuel. When the sender is exposed (low fuel) it heats up and the light comes on in the cluster.

An alternative to this is the mechanical sender that is a float. When the fuel level drops the float sends a signal - that's why if you watch the light it comes on gradually rather than just "popping" on, and it can go ON/OFF depending on the level of the car.

If you have connected the cluster to the harness (you're indicators work, lights, hand brake light, etc) and all your other wiring is in place then you can test the low fuel warning light by emptying the fuel tank (get underneath and remove the plug from the tank). As the fuel drains the light should gradually come on.

If you want the fine details I will post up the exact locations of the wires inc. their colours and PIN locations tonight when I get home.

UPDATE:

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s40/infotechplus/EFHonda/IMG_0259.jpg

In the above photo you can see the fuel pump. It is connected by the brown/orange two pin plug. The other rubber-covered connector is the three pin connector for the Low Fuel Warning Light.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s40/infotechplus/EFHonda/IMG_0023-4.jpg

In this photo you can see I've converted the carby tank to EFI. The fuel pump is at the back. I swapped in the LFWL where the green connector is at the front of the tank. I used a sender out of an EK. It was a perfect fit.

Here's the connector for the fuel pump:

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s40/infotechplus/EFHonda/IMG_0029-6.jpg

In the photo below on the left is located the fuel tank drain plug. I think its a 17mm. This is an ED6 tank but the plug is usually in a similar location on other Civics and early Integras.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s40/infotechplus/EFHonda/IMG_2228.jpg

Here's the wiring diagram cross-referencing a number of clusters: The two pins you can check are B1 and A7. B1is the fuel gauge itself whilst A7 is the LFWL. When doing the install I had to join the B10 (YLW/BLK) wire off the EK/CRV cluster to the B1 (YLW/WHT) wire on the EG. Also the A7 (GRN/RED) to the B8 (GRN/YLW). If this is confusing remember I'm using an EG VTi harness generally but an EK/CRV cluster and EK LFWL in my ED6 project car.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s40/infotechplus/EFHonda/WiringChart.jpg

Peter

[FastFwd]

Hey peter thanks for the massive ammount of detail. Im currently trying to wrap my head around all of it.

To my knowledge when i got my conversion done 6+ years ago they changed my EG carb tank to a EFI to make it work. They had some issues at the time also from what i remember. Thats the time i lost my warning light. All my cluster lights and guages work becides the fuel warning light. I got a little confused in your details as to which wires are the fuel sender and which are just pump power/ign1 wires. And also where the sender wires need to travel to eg Dash, cluster, fuze box..

If you could help me out with the fine detail. Maybe step by step what i should check first and go from there i can take quick pix also if you need.

Thanks for the help peter much appreciated.

[seihoa]

Maybe ur not driving near the E enough to get the fuel light to come one ? LOL happened to me once i had to drive right on the Empty line just to get the light to turn on.

Why be so fussed about it? u still have the gauge to look at so just fill up when its near empty.

Its just a warning light at the end of the day.

[FastFwd]

Maybe ur not driving near the E enough to get the fuel light to come one ? LOL happened to me once i had to drive right on the Empty line just to get the light to turn on.

Why be so fussed about it? u still have the gauge to look at so just fill up when its near empty.

Its just a warning light at the end of the day.

Ive driven the car empty twice with no fuel light warning. This was 3+ years ago but with my currently walbro pump as its soo loud when it's not submerged i know the fuel is very low as the pump sounds like a damn jet engine.

I'm only fussed atm because my complete interior is stripped out, getting few things painted, new carpet, got a new dash and getting it trimmed in suede etc.

Plus while its out ive got all new trim/interior clips, bolts, screws and wire clips etc to stop those old rattles here and there the EG's get. Remember they are 15+ years old now and now im onto making sure all of my wiring is 100%. Some how my car had 2 alarms in it and 3 immobilizers. So ive gone and removed the unused items and modules and now im onto making sure all my lights, guages, indicators are working.

My car isnt daily remember so i have the time to make sure and be fussy

[jdm_b16a]

Hey peter thanks for the massive ammount of detail. Im currently trying to wrap my head around all of it.

To my knowledge when i got my conversion done 6+ years ago they changed my EG carb tank to a EFI to make it work. They had some issues at the time also from what i remember. Thats the time i lost my warning light. All my cluster lights and guages work becides the fuel warning light. I got a little confused in your details as to which wires are the fuel sender and which are just pump power/ign1 wires. And also where the sender wires need to travel to eg Dash, cluster, fuze box..

If you could help me out with the fine detail. Maybe step by step what i should check first and go from there i can take quick pix also if you need.

Thanks for the help peter much appreciated.

No problems. I'll make up a simple schematic for you ASAP.

Peter

[FastFwd]

Excuse the poor pix quality, just using my iphone4 for a quick snap and upload

Ok so in the mean time ive done some reconnaissance and here are some pix of my current situation.

Figure this is the fuel pump wires (yel/?? and Blk)

http://imgur.com/rXHrx.jpg

And this is the sender unit wires correct? (yel/wht, red/grn, blk)

http://imgur.com/WV9Ec.jpg

Fuel sender unit plugged in

http://imgur.com/xD9G5.jpg

Pic of my fuze box

http://imgur.com/CqHRh.jpg

Followed the wires from the tank and down the right side of the chassis on the drivers side to the kick panel under the bonnet pull switch and ive separated the fuel sender wires to the right of the bunch in this picture (yel/wht, red/grn). Blacks in there also but thats just a ground obviously?

http://imgur.com/hrmeH.jpg

Pic of my cluster from the front

http://imgur.com/PYdKr.jpg

Pic of my cluster from the back

http://imgur.com/UjLrb.jpg

Clusters fuel light hole.

http://imgur.com/FajXb.jpg

and the bulb which looks like the filament is still in good condition

http://imgur.com/wG9QZ.jpg

[FastFwd]

hope that makes things a little easier

[FK-1337]

FASTFWD!

you are my man

im doing an EG carb to efi conversion as well..
and this thread.. omg thank you :)

[FastFwd]

No worries man

I did my conversion over 6 years ago and had a dodgy garage do the job which after blowing my motor on the first drive home and finding 100 issues with the conversion they filed bankruptcy before i could claim anything. Since then ive pretty much redone the conversion myself and fixed almost all of the issues over time but small things like this fuel light i haven't bothered with until now. The conversion from dual Carb to b16a2 was pretty much the biggest mission so best of luck.

The fuel system conversion from carb to efi im fairly light on info myself. All i know is you have to change the fuel tank to EFI or make the conversion by editing the Carb fuel tank making it compatible like "jdm_b16a" has done. I know most other mechanical issues with the conversion though so let me know if i can help you with anything.

[FK-1337]

No worries man

I did my conversion over 6 years ago and had a dodgy garage do the job which after blowing my motor on the first drive home and finding 100 issues with the conversion they filed bankruptcy before i could claim anything. Since then ive pretty much redone the conversion myself and fixed almost all of the issues over time but small things like this fuel light i haven't bothered with until now. The conversion from dual Carb to b16a2 was pretty much the biggest mission so best of luck.

The fuel system conversion from carb to efi im fairly light on info myself. All i know is you have to change the fuel tank to EFI or make the conversion by editing the Carb fuel tank making it compatible like "jdm_b16a" has done. I know most other mechanical issues with the conversion though so let me know if i can help you with anything.


hmmm..,

im doing just a budget GLi conversion on my carb

i got the motor in, used jdm b16 loom engine bay and under dash..

i checked by turning the key to reds, it worked and cranked but no fuel so i cant start it..

my only problem right now is wiring up the fuel pump to the fuse box and ecu etc?

You think you can guide me with that? :S

[FastFwd]

You have the OEM EFI tank with internal fuel pump? I think both EG/EK tank and pumps are the same.

Well so far im currently having issues with the fuel sender unit so i cant help you with that until ive resolved my own but the fuel pump...what you might want to do is see if the one you have is working? maybe get 12v batt wire and a ground wire and connect them to the prongs on the fuel pump plug like in my picture and see if you can here/feel the fuel pump turning on. If it is then its your wiring....

Yel/??? and Black wires for the fuel pump follow them to the fuze box.

They run right along the tube under the carpet im pretty sure along the drivers side door. If not maybe under the passenger side. They will go to the fuzebox

But i think the problem lies with the wiring harness power to your fuze box. If everything else is working but that it means that there is no EGN1 power to the fuel pump. If you turn the key once to IGN you should here it prime then turn off. If its not then its power issue.

If it is then its a pressure issue.

[FastFwd]

if this helps theres is some EG service manuals on there

http://hondatech.info/downloads/Auto/Manuals/Civic/

only issue is they are USDM so few small things are different.

[FK-1337]

Gosh.. Jesus thank you for the info man!!
Do u know which pin to plug the wires to on the fuse box?
I haven't actually connected it though lol just dummy fitting everything

[FastFwd]

The wire is yellow and green that goes to the fuze box. I'll have to look tomorrow exactly where it connects to at the fuze box and ill take a pic for you.

[FK-1337]

The wire is yellow and green that goes to the fuze box. I'll have to look tomorrow exactly where it connects to at the fuze box and ill take a pic for you.

thanks alot man, that will help so much :)

other than that, if the fuel pump is in working condition, it'd just pump fuel to the system right? and once i crank it, the engine will start?

[FastFwd]

thanks alot man, that will help so much :)

other than that, if the fuel pump is in working condition, it'd just pump fuel to the system right? and once i crank it, the engine will start?

Not necessarily...

Like i said if the pump isn't putting enough pressure it will try to kick over but might not.

Do u have an aftermarket fuel pressure reg with gauge? or just running stock on the b16a?

EDIT: btw how you know its working 100% u tested?

[jdm_b16a]

OK. Let's start from the beginning.

You have an EFI engine with an EFI fuel tank and standard fuel pump (FP), with a Low Fuel Warning Light (LFWL) on the dash.

The LFWL is an electrical device unlike the sender on say an ED6 which is mechanical. On the ED6 the float moves down as the fuel level drops; not overly precise but enough.

Here's the mechanical float (from an ED6 on the left) vs the EK (or EG) electrical unit (2 pin vs 3 pin)

http://i44.tinypic.com/zv975t.jpg

On the EK LFWL sender when the fuel drops it exposes the sensor that heats up (it is cooled by the fuel when the tank is full) and this sends a signal to the cluster. That's why the light comes on gradually. The fuel can still move around and changes, for example, if you drive uphill/downhill. As the tank empties the light on the dash stays on.

http://i44.tinypic.com/zy8qxh.jpg

You have an OBDI ECU - it has three grey plugs?

http://i45.tinypic.com/245fpte.jpg

At the tank you have a rectangular connector covered by a rubber hood.

What you want to do is check all the wires are operational and in the right place. You will need a multimeter that can test for "continuity", that is, one end of a wire is connected to the other end of the wire. You do this by placing a probe at one end (on some bare wire or push the point of the probe gently through the casing), setting the MM to "continuity" and then touching the other end of the wire with the other probe. The MM should emit a continuous "BEEP". Here's my MM set - the display shows 0L.

http://i54.tinypic.com/34f166h.jpg

Wire colours: to read a wire colour, say YLW/GRN, this means the main colour of the wire is YELLOW and that it has a GREEN stripe.

Here we go ...

Here's the five wires at the fuel tank

1 BLK --> that is your EARTH wire or NEGATIVE wire for the FP
2 BLK/WHT --> that is your EARTH for the LFWL
3 YLW/GRN --> that is your 12V PWR wire from the EFI Main Relay
4 YLW/WHT
5 GRN/RED --> these two wires send the signal to the LFWL on your EG cluster

Here's the five wires going into the rubber grommet at the Fuel Tank. The plug is underneath.

http://i55.tinypic.com/10sbpsp.jpg

These wires run along the base of the rear seat and then turn towards the front of the car in the harness. At the base of the driver's seat, you will see a bolt on the cross-brace:

http://i54.tinypic.com/dbnk7q.jpg

That's where your EARTH point is. Notice the several BLK wires and the BLK/WHT wire. To test for continuity of EARTHs for your FP, place one probe on the connector at the Fuel Tank on the BLK wire and the other on the EARTH point on the cross-brace. You should hear a "BEEP". Do the same for the BLK/WHT wire. Make sure the MM is set to "Continuity".

Everything check out OK so far?

Now the next test is for PWR on your FP. That is the YLW/GRN wire. It runs along the harness to the twin grey connectors under the dash on the driver's side. One connector is slightly smaller than the other but they are linked together by a sliding clip.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2nlwbyv.jpg

Don't be concerned about the GRN/YLW wire in my photo. I've used some offcut wire to lengthen the connection. Yours will be YLW/GRN.

This YLW/GRN wire is connected to the EFI Main Relay (EFI MR). That is a small box mounted under the dash. It has 8 connections and some are doubled-up.

http://i54.tinypic.com/25owcxd.jpg

Here you can see the wires at the EFI MR. The YLW/GRN is coming from the FP. The GRN/YLW goes the ECU

http://i51.tinypic.com/16krgc7.jpg

To check that your FP is working do a "Continuity" test on the wiring, one end at the fuel tank; the other at the grey connector above and then again at the EFI MR.

To have everything working, the YLW/GRN wire goes off to the ECU. This is connected at pin A7 although on the JDM B16A harness there is a duplicate connection at A8. If you only have A7 that's fine; A8 is a backup and is actually spliced onto A7 further up the harness. Go figure!

Now the last two wires are the YLW/WHT and the GRN/RED.

These both go the EG cluster. The YLW/WHT goes to B1 (the larger of the two connectors with 12 pins) and the GRN/RED to A7 (10 pins)

Connector "B" - reading from left to right the YLW/WHT wire is at pin 1 (far right)

http://i52.tinypic.com/2r6gkyh.jpg

Connector "A" - reading from left to right the GRN/RED wire is at pin 7

http://i54.tinypic.com/2rfdlef.jpg

They get there by passing through the large blue connector that sits atop your under-dash fuse box. You can see the two wires in the photo below:

http://i55.tinypic.com/312y4q9.jpg

To test for continuity, place your probe at either the blue connector or at the cluster connector (or both to do a full test), and then the other end at the fuel tank.

So, these are all the wires you should have to make the FP and the LFWL work.

Good luck. Any questions, post away.

Peter

[FK-1337]

Not necessarily...

Like i said if the pump isn't putting enough pressure it will try to kick over but might not.

Do u have an aftermarket fuel pressure reg with gauge? or just running stock on the b16a?

EDIT: btw how you know its working 100% u tested?

er.. everything is just stock ?

im using a GLi motor with a standard EG EFi fuel tank and a standard EG EFi fuel pump o____o

[na-118]

good info peter should help heaps

[FastFwd]

Ohhhh? so everythink just remains as stock? i thought there might need to be some conversion to get the damn light working or something. In that case things will be alot easier as i can just check all the stock settings.

One more thing peter in doing this do you think i should skip the FP test as thats working fine. So is my fuel gauge on the cluster. Only thing that isnt working is just the LFWL which from my knowledge now is either the yel/wht or grn/red wire.

[jdm_b16a]

do you think i should skip the FP test as thats working fine.

Yep.

Check the two wires running to the cluster as outlined above.

Good luck.

Peter