1, 3, 5 's Shifting.

[VeYzZii]

Hey guys. Well this is a simple one i guess.. The 6 speed gearbox in the S's wherent really made for everyday driving as we can tell.. So what i do is a technique called 1,3,5's. Which consists simply of taking off in first, then revving it till about 3.5-4, then taking it from 1 to 3.. Skipping second. My question is, is this any bad?. Does it wear anything out quicker then normal. Note: I dont strain the motor, i only do it on level or downhill roads, lol, and so that the car doesnt bog when shifted.

[Steve695]

Hey guys. Well this is a simple one i guess.. The 6 speed gearbox in the S's wherent really made for everyday driving as we can tell.. So what i do is a technique called 1,3,5's. Which consists simply of taking off in first, then revving it till about 3.5-4, then taking it from 1 to 3.. Skipping second. My question is, is this any bad?. Does it wear anything out quicker then normal. Note: I dont strain the motor, i only do it on level or downhill roads, lol, and so that the car doesnt bog when shifted.

Skip Shifting is bad for your synchronizes. Try and use all your gears. It can also lead to difficulty getting your car into gear.
My friend has an EF manual and his syncros are stuffed from too much skip shifting and when I drive his car I literally have to use all my strength to put it into first half the time.
Best off not to do it, or as little as possible.

[vyets]

The 6 speed gearbox in the S's wherent really made for everyday driving as we can tell.

What makes you think that? lol.

Skipping is fine, I don't see a point in it but and it seems somewhat "lazy"

But you will be fine as long as you revmatch correctly.

[curtis265]

I think you'll wear your synchros very quickly if u don't double clutch slowly..

[DreadAngel]

Synchros are there to match the speed of a gear to that of your shaft, skipping gears is fine as vyets said with good revmatching however you need to use the correct gear when going uphill whether its a small incline or a mountain. Some people use a higher gear and strains the engine... Invariably accelerating engine wear =|

[VeYzZii]

Hmm yea. Thoughtso. I wouldnt expect it to do your synchros. But yea DreadAngel, nah im lazy.. Not stupid :P

[foowoei69]

This topic was on the s2ki forums too. the honda rep there also said that it's bad for the box. Then went on to explain why its bad and what it does in detail. Basically It messes up ur sycros coz they're spinning at different speeds and when shifted into the gear it hits even if u wait a while it still knocks abit. Or something like that and then they start getting sticky gears and so on.

[VeYzZii]

As far as i know, arent synchros engaged when the gear is selected, as in when the gear is being put in, not prior.. So why would it mess your synchros :S

foowoei you got a link??

[foowoei69]

Hey guys
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=237209
This is one of the posts. Not the original one but ull get the gist of it.
There are some pics of a sticky box.

[VeYzZii]

Whoa... Interesting. Very interesting dude. Well done. +1

[foowoei69]

Hey cool. Thanks for the point dude.
I hope it's saved a some ppl a rebuild. I was abit surprised too when I read the post.
I used to do that heaps with all my other cars and one of my friends did that with his is200 coz he changed the fd, that never had issues either.
I Guess it's only with the s2k that u cant do that.
It would suck ass if u changed ur fd to a 4.7 or something like that and cant skip gears.

[vyets]

I have 4.77 and dont skip ;)
And its not just the s2k its all cars if ur lazy to shift get a auto

[catacaustic]

I agree with vyets. If you are to lazy to shift 1-2-3-4-5-6... Then get an auto. sure, S2000's do shift more then a normal performance V8 or something, but personally I prefer having that sort of controll over how the engine ahndlers the power. I drove an auto for years, and I hated it. give me a manual any day! And.. give me mroe then 6 gears!!! i often find myself searching for 7th when I forget just what I've got. :)

[foowoei69]

I do have an auto car and i also dislike it. Hate is such a strong word. Lol..
I never said I was lazy to shift. Im lazy to shift constantly in certain traffic conditions. That y I changed from my civic to the s2k. I like how they've spread the gearing in it. I haven't tried a 4.7 in an s but if I'm not mistaken that the same as the b18crs fd. Obviously the gearbox ratios are different but that was a little too close for my liking. Fun as hell but i cant do that daily anymore. Getting old.. Lol
I used to skip gears hear and here with the civic and it never had any dramas. milage was higher than my s And I treated my eg like how it was supposed to be. And it never had a drama.
I got a 4.4 in the s and I'm happy with that. If i really get lazy ill look at fi.. And taller ratios but im not sure the box will cope. For me a 4.7 would be too close.
Don't u mod to get the car to handle how u like it?
Btw.. I wouldn't mind trying the s with a dsg or something similar. Lol.
Holy crap.. I must be getting old. :)

[migoreng]

I regularly rev high in second gear so by the time I hit 3rd there's really no need to accelerate so I simply go 2nd to 4th...
What's the point of going 2 > 3 when all you're going to do a second later is cluctch in and shift to 4th and continue cruising?

Haven't had a problem for over 2 years.

[foowoei69]

Yeah.. Thats what I used to do in the civic. Apparently that's not good for the s2k box. As many people have damaged their boxes in the states. But as top gear has shown. Alot of yanks can't drive stick. Lol. So like they said. It's hit n miss. Some people will have dramas with that and some don't. Some dudes have had boxes rebuilt numerous times.
Could be that they didn't wait abit before stickin it in the gear. Or purely just can't drive manual.
either way. I've stopped doin that just as precaution. There seemed to be too many of them for my liking. As we also know the European cars had recalls to change an oil valve in the motor for the s but they never did it here. So who knows if it's really the root of the cause. it could just be a bad driver. Or poor maitainece.

[-Tom]

What's the point of going 2 > 3 when all you're going to do a second later is cluctch in and shift to 4th and continue cruising?

From reading the S2Ki post, shifting to 3rd takes off some of the force the engine exerts on the gearbox which, if you shift straight from 2nd to 4th, may 'mushroom' the gear because 4th gear can't handle the extra force.

[JAP-S2K]

Regardless of the car and make, most manual cars are in 4th at 60-80km/h S2K's included. If you so lazy to change gears, and can't understand why skipping gears in torture on synchro's perhaps buying an S2K was bad choice and maybe an auto CR-V is more your thing.

[migoreng]

Regardless of the car and make, most manual cars are in 4th at 60-80km/h S2K's included. If you so lazy to change gears, and can't understand why skipping gears in torture on synchro's perhaps buying an S2K was bad choice and maybe an auto CR-V is more your thing.

When I skip gears I actually wait an extra bit of time for the revs to come down then release the clutch, which makes the shift smooth. Is that the type of force you're talking about?

Redlining 1st, shifting to 2nd and releasing the clutch before the revs go enough down is just as bad right?

[curtis265]

not quite, ur gearbox has a bigger difference in speeds to try and match

[JAP-S2K]

Redlining 1st, shifting to 2nd and releasing the clutch before the revs go enough down is just as bad right?

Actually that's what the driveline was designed to do, providing your not flat changing. Your actually not doing the syncro's any favours by letting the revs drop. Goodluck.

[aznsiko]

WTF?!?!?! This is a wierd thread.. lol...

WHY IS S2000 NOT MEANT TO BE DRIVEN PROPERLY??? 1-3-5??? WTF??? WIERDO!!!! thats like saying lock your car first then put your windows up after....

[migoreng]

Sometimes you have just redlined 1st from the lights, gave a bit of a squirt in second and already hit the speed limit say ,80kph...
What do you do?
-Shift to 3rd for half a second, then 4th for another second then 5th?
-I could clutch in , move the shift to 5th, wait for the revs to drop enough then release the clutch.

[VeYzZii]

WTF?!?!?! This is a wierd thread.. lol...

WHY IS S2000 NOT MEANT TO BE DRIVEN PROPERLY??? 1-3-5??? WTF??? WIERDO!!!! thats like saying lock your car first then put your windows up after....

Nice input aznsiko.. Lot of info there..
PS.. Ive never seen an impure N/A.. Show me some pics..

[curtis265]

Sometimes you have just redlined 1st from the lights, gave a bit of a squirt in second and already hit the speed limit say ,80kph...
What do you do?
-Shift to 3rd for half a second, then 4th for another second then 5th?
-I could clutch in , move the shift to 5th, wait for the revs to drop enough then release the clutch.

i'd doublt clutch letting the revs drop completely in N, and then go into 5th

[migoreng]

So why is skipping a gear bad?

I could go 2 > 4...
What if the 3rd gear ratio was the same as 4th?
I would shift 2>3 (revs would drop more because of the wider ratios) but what would the difference be?

[VeYzZii]

From reading the S2Ki post, shifting to 3rd takes off some of the force the engine exerts on the gearbox which, if you shift straight from 2nd to 4th, may 'mushroom' the gear because 4th gear can't handle the extra force.

Where not flat shifting skipping.. Why would the 'force' have any effect if your speed is in range of the gear? As in, if the speed is right for the gear.. Is the real issue actually the shifting bit, or is the issue the fact that you shouldnt use taller gear at lower speeds..? I still dont get why selecting a taller gear, and shifting will stuff up synchros. Synchros are engaged while pushing in the gear.. Right? And what does your theory say about eg. Going engage clutch in 1st,accelerate, then 2nd engage clutch accelerate, then holding clutch while shifting to 3rd stil holding clutch, not engaging it in 3rd, then moving from 3rd to 4th and then engaging clutch in 4th to accelerate...?

[euromandeluxe]

You guys should go to the first page of this thread, click the s2ki link and have a good read. everything's explained there pretty clearly.

it's not the gear teeth that get mushroomed, it's the synchro dogs that do because they have to absorb a greater force (greater spinning speed difference) when skipping gears.

migoreng, the if 3rd had the same ratio as 4th it's dog would get mushroomed too. that's kinda why it has the shorter ratio.

in any case, this problem seems to hit the 5th and 6th gear synchros the worst.

double clutching for skipped upshifts will allow the falling engine speed to slow the input shaft to the right speed for the gear you're skipping to, but you'll need to shift into it with the correct timing.

rowing through the gears as veyzzii said will distribute the speed matching load among all the synchros, which means no individual synchro will take the brunt of the force, but if you do this at normal shifting pace it's likely the engine speed will have fallen all the way to idle during the time the clutch was pressed in.

in all honesty I don't get it - if it's known skip shifting can cause accelerated synchro wear on the S, then regardless of the questionable synchro design, why do it? the car has a peaky powerband and a close ratio box with a dream shift action, it was made for shifting gears. it's not like it's a huge amount of extra effort anyway.

my 2c.

[VeYzZii]

Y
in all honesty I don't get it - if it's known skip shifting can cause accelerated synchro wear on the S, then regardless of the questionable synchro design, why do it? the car has a peaky powerband and a close ratio box with a dream shift action, it was made for shifting gears. it's not like it's a huge amount of extra effort anyway.


Yea. Thanks. Now starting to make sense abit more. No i agree with you. If it is shown that it does accelerate wear or encourages it, then obviously it shouldnt be done. Thats the reason i posted the thread. All input is much appreciated. Thanks guys !!

[Wez_R]

I don't even realise im changing gears when im driving anymore

its just so automatic for me

[VeYzZii]

its just so automatic for me

LOL.. Pun :)

[gamgam]

Thought I'd add this for further reference...

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=430169&st=0&#entry8821857