Leaking clutch master?

[fromdeeeast]

Hey guys I am just asking something here. In my s2000 I have been having difficulties. Basically what I mean is when I shift from first to second sometimes it crunches. And well this is really annoying. So I have searched the forums and all I have read is get the gearbox fluid replaced and see if there is even clutch fluid in the master which are fairly obvious. When I first had this problem I bled the clutch and it made a difference, clutch pedal was firmer and was overall better and it did reduced the crunching(I usually get it a few times every drive). So my question is mainly could the clutch master be leaking air into the system which is causing it to crunch? Also if that's not it then what could be the problem?

Thanks guys

[zhong]

Are you driving an early model AP1? Their gearboxes are known to have crunching issues (especially 1-2), in which Honda recognised and fixed it for later models (forgot exactly from which model, but I think it was the 03+). If your CMC is leaking, you'll see damp areas under your pedal, so check that and keep an eye on your fluid levels. Although, there are a few things you can do to see whether it helps:

- Bleed CMC
- Change Transmission Fluid
- Change Clutch Fluid
- Adjust your clutch/seat position
- Inspect your shifter rod and check for wear
- Inspect your Clutch Slave Cylinder for leaks

Atleast most the above improved my driving/shifting but I do still get the crunch every now and then - usually when it's cold cold, but I think I have adjusted to a perfect-shifting-technique so it's less now. lol

Peace

[fromdeeeast]

The clutch master isnt leaking any fluid, I am 100% sure, my first car did so its nothing new to me.

What I'm mainly wanting to know is that could air somehow get into the clutch from a leak or something and cause the clutch issue (spongy at times, n that).

Because after I bled it, it went back to before after a week.

Because the thing is, it only happens every now.

[zhong]

I'd say faulty Clutch Slave Cylinder - It's cheap to replace anyway, so that's what I'll replace first if it's an interminient problem. And correct me if I'm wrong, if air can get in, air/fluid can get out right? So inspect all your lines I guess, if all else fails just replace it.

PS. How did you bleed your clutch?

[fromdeeeast]

Bleed valve under the car near the box.

[Engin09]

this happened to me, its going to happen either way i swear itll never disapear. Just try change your style of shifting, maybe your gear knob fits shitty in your palm try different shapes? i did, i find a circle gear knob works really good for me compared to the long thin ones :)

[fromdeeeast]

Fml! Yer I have realized that shifting style does make a big difference but that's what I have been using as a temporary fix for now. I knew it was a common problem i didn't know there was no fix for it. Mmmm

[Engin09]

well there is a fix, like upgrade your box etc.. but to much $$$, every one i know who has a s2k has the 1-2 little notch problem, when my engine heats up i dont get it tho.. which is good, and probably because of my shifting style? i changed my oil like 3000km ago which also helped.. try holding the knob in different ways lOL and when shifting try not sliding it against the left wall of the box, instead try going straight down from 1 etc.. i performed little random tests for like months LOl

[lzybum]

i duno about you guys
but i seem to always have to top up my clutch fluid every 10k km's
by 10k km, the bottle is like full empty!
leak somewhere? cant seem to find it...and its not wet under the pedal or under the car lol :S

[zhong]

i duno about you guys
but i seem to always have to top up my clutch fluid every 10k km's
by 10k km, the bottle is like full empty!
leak somewhere? cant seem to find it...and its not wet under the pedal or under the car lol :S

Try checking for leaks on your actual gearbox itself.. The lines go right to the Clutch Slave Piston. My bet is that it either drips while you drive or your just not looking hard enough! Do a test, fill up your fluid, then run the engine for about 5 minutes (I'd put a big peice of cardboard/newspaper under the suspicious areas) and see if you get any drips.. If no drips, then I'd follow the entire line and check, it has to go somewhere!

[lzybum]

i always park in the same spot at home, and in the mornings i start the car up for at least 3-4mins before i go
in that same spot theres not a drip of fluid no where lol

[9large]

Are you driving an early model AP1? Their gearboxes are known to have crunching issues (especially 1-2), in which Honda recognised and fixed it for later models (forgot exactly from which model, but I think it was the 03+).

/snip


Could you elaborate? I'm not sure on what grounds you base these comments on.



Hey guys I am just asking something here. In my s2000 I have been having difficulties. Basically what I mean is when I shift from first to second sometimes it crunches. And well this is really annoying.

/snip


Were there previous owners to your car? What is its history like? If the car has been subjected to conditions or modifications outside of its design parameters or just plain shit driving, then you can expect that sometimes things will break sooner.

Hopefully, you'll get your car sorted out soon, if not already.

[zhong]

Could you elaborate? I'm not sure on what grounds you base these comments on.

Why certainly.

1 SHIFTING

Technical Service Bulletin 00-055 (Transmission/Driveline) for Grinding When Shifting into 2nd Gear. Honda says this applies for certain �00 S2000's, this revision changes applicability and parts and warranty claim information. Some owners that have had this repair claim it doesn�t always work. Other owners report shifts being notchy going into 1st and 3rd gears as well. It�s unclear at this time if the reported improvements in �02 S2000s have corrected the problem - it would appear not. Several owners report the grinding condition may be trigger by hotter weather, i.e., 100 degrees +. Some owners report a transmission fluid change has improved the notchy feel.
Demands on the S2000 syncro�s as explained by a Honda engineer, and his suggestion for taking care of them: Since the engine revs to 9000 rpms, it means the transmission mainshaft and clutch disk are also revving to 9000 rpm. When you push in the clutch pedal to disengage the clutch and shift from 1st to 2nd the engine and the transmission are disconnected. At the same time, the engine slows down from compression as you lift off the throttle. The transmission mainshaft, no longer connected to the engine, is freewheeling in the transmission. Given enough time the mainshaft will slow down but not as fast as the engine. The countershaft is connected to the rear wheels and the speed stays constant during the shift. When you shift into 2nd gear the 2nd gear synchro must �slowdown� the transmission mainshaft to match the engine speed when the shift is completed and the clutch is engaged. The transmission mainshaft and the clutch disk together weigh 19.75 lbs. (not including the pressure plate and flywheel that are connected to the engine) When you shift from 1st to 2nd at 9000 rpm the engine speed drops to 5900. That means that the little brass synchronizer rings have to push on the 2nd gear to slow the mainshaft from 9000 rpm to 5900 rpm. It not only has to slow down the mainshaft it has to do it in the time that it takes you to shift. So if you have a tendency to shift fast you may be making the sleeve blow past the synchro rings before it has a chance to do it's job and it will smash into the 2nd gear.

The early '00 cars needed a little change to the sleeve to make the synchros work a little harder. That is what the new parts in the service bulletin are for. Cars after VIN VT006255 already have the new parts. Grinding in a car produced later than 6255 is possible if the synchros have been damaged and now are not able to slow down the mainshaft properly.

Shifting without the clutch, or, shift too quickly and not letting the synchros do their job may permanently damage the gear, sleeve and synchros and make the 2nd gear grind more often. It makes sense that if your shifting at 6000 rpm, it makes the engine speed drop 1700 rpm or 4300 rpm then you should give the 2nd gear synchro twice the time to do the shift from 9000 rpm. If your car does grind once in a while you may not want the transmission removed, disassembled and a new 2nd gear put in. If it does it quite often, show it to the dealer and have it replaced. If you hesitate for another 1/2 second while putting constant pressure on the shifter while the 2nd gear synchro does it's job, I'll bet many of your cars would not grind any more.

When the owner of a new 2002 S2000 questioned the notchy feeling between 2nd and 3rd gear he was advised all was normal: � Transmission shift mechanism inside has very short throws with rods and detents. These shift rods are held into correct position by detent balls with stiff spring pressure to prevent transmission from slipping out of gear during acceleration. Transmission function is correct at this time and no repairs are recommend by Honda Techinical Assistance. The 2002 S2000 Transmission was assembled with update parts. No updates or TSB's apply to this vehicle."

Honda put out this letter in February 16, 2000 in Portugal. Subject: Honda S2000 Gearbox
Dear customer, Honda has detected that, in some Honda S2000, the gearbox may malfunction. The symptom is difficulty in engaging 1st or reverse. This situation may occur due to a deficient lubrication inside the gearbox. Normally, this deficient lubrication only happens after driving for sometime at high speed. To correct this situation, we would like to install a modified gearbox in your vehicle, so that we can ensure the correct operation of the transmission. [This is a situation that affected early S2000s] .

For the actual TSB, click here. (http://http://www.s2ki.com/stor/library/TSB/A00-055.pdf)

Peace.

[9large]

Thanks for posting that. I believe this was the original post from s2ki: http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=56948&st=25.

So it appears the grinding issue may have affected some early AP1 models (pre-2001), not all.

[s2kjn]

Well i fall into the "some" category then!

[fromdeeeast]

Ok I have narrowed down what's wrong. I have realized that if I press clutch faster than usual and harder it will shift smooth and perfectly. However if I shift normal once in a while I will get a notchyness as I shift. So basically it's pressure related so it's either the clutch master or the slave master. So how do I tell which one is failing and does this sound right at all.

[tomS2KAP1]

i always park in the same spot at home, and in the mornings i start the car up for at least 3-4mins before i go
in that same spot theres not a drip of fluid no where lol

slave is leaking (eventhough, there is no sign of fluid leak on the car spot). Remove and check the slave. When I changed slave, it makes sense to change the master too.

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=671997&st=0&#entry15397569

[philipminge]

i had same problem and it got pretty bad. i put a post up not long ago about it asking same question. was s**t as when it was cold... n about 80% of time when it was warm.... it got bad.

for me, my clutch was fair worn...so i put a new clutch in anyway n light weight flywheel.... problem still there.... SO

i replaced clutch master cylinder and bled the line and put genuine honda gearbox oil in.... feels like a new car.

problem gone............for now.....

it only did it at lower rpm... neva when revin her hard.... sometimes i have missed a gear because i got too excited n stuffed up my shift n crunched but u soon learn the limits of the car.

now she slides into gear like no tomorrow and i can change stupidly fast with no issue or crunch or rejection from gearbox.... it loves it!!! lol ..... i have a 2002 ap1 (55,000km).

i thought i was gonna go rebuild the gearbox but problem is ok at the moment.... c how it goes i guess... but maybe try what i did.

cheers