spring rates

[RPMTOY]

hey all just wondering what spring rates people are running in there track cars

i have an ek civic hatch currently with front 9kg and rear 5kg, my car is more for track then street and am looking for something much heavier. I have been told to run like f12 r10 but have seen some coilovers like spoon that come with f18 r16, also seen up to 22kg up front on some setups in japan. Not too sure what to go for, any opinions would be great.

thanks

[Riced_Civic]

dont run 2 stiff, i think a F12, R10 will be plenty. if u want to get rid of roll and be stable in the corners get bigger sway bars.

2 stiff sussy, wont absorb the bumps if the track has bumps on entry/exit to a corner and can put the car out of balance.

[Chr1s]

You need to base your spring rates off your swaybar, and sorry to burst your bubble, you won't be able to work it out by looking at your swaybar and selecting a size to suit, it's alot more complicated than that. Centre of gravity, weight distribution, ride frequency goal, weight transfer, car weight, roll centre, alot plays.

We will be providing a full tuned race setup which can be used on the street to suit each specific Honda, I'm sick of the crap from tein, buddyclub, bc, they are all shit. There is a myriad of dynoplots to prove.

The bottom line is, you cannot produce a suspension setup for every single car out there. Someone might have awesome benefits with teins and 22kg springs, and someone might prefer a softer package.

IMO, ask around like crazy.

[mugen_ctr]

also comes down to the track its being used on, some tracks have some serious bumps, an will require change of spring rates an damper settings to suit the track to achieve best times, but than again, it does also come down the the driver, how the setup suits him/her

As said, F12 R10 is optimum... i think u will find that on race cars, none of em run the same sus setup every track, it has to be tailored to the track, spring rate, camber, damper etc etc

[Riced_Civic]

You need to base your spring rates off your swaybar, and sorry to burst your bubble, you won't be able to work it out by looking at your swaybar and selecting a size to suit, it's alot more complicated than that. Centre of gravity, weight distribution, ride frequency goal, weight transfer, car weight, roll centre, alot plays.

We will be providing a full tuned race setup which can be used on the street to suit each specific Honda, I'm sick of the crap from tein, buddyclub, bc, they are all shit. There is a myriad of dynoplots to prove.

The bottom line is, you cannot produce a suspension setup for every single car out there. Someone might have awesome benefits with teins and 22kg springs, and someone might prefer a softer package.

IMO, ask around like crazy.

i get where ur coming from, i know its alot more then basing it off the swaybar and that theres alot of other factors that contribute to choosing a right spring rate. its depends on where u take the car to race at and u need to find a medium to suit all tracks, unless u have the cash to swap out springs to every track u go to.
im just saying going stiffer isnt always better

[string]

You haven't given enough information for anyone to help. Where does your current setup lack?

If your shocks are any good (+wide range of adjustment) then maybe grab a pair of 12s and 14s, giving you at least 4 viable permutations to try out (9f 12r and especially 9f 14r might be a bit strange coming from 9f 5r). Most race cars are tuned the old fashion way - tweaking parameters, teasting and repeating.

A set of 4 springs will cost less than a single trackday. Race cars are expensive and if you can't afford a few spare sets of springs then perhaps suspension tuning isn't a suitable hobby.


You need to base your spring rates off your swaybar

Then how do you choose your swaybar?!?

[mugen_ctr]

adjustable sway bars, are really the only go if ur looking for flexibility, whiteline usually have 2-3 differ adjustment for sway bars.... i think what he hasnt mentioned as pointed out, his current setup, it mite not be that he needs stiffer coil-overs but more of the smaller stuff done to it before hitting the spring rate

[Chr1s]

Swaybar and spring choice is all about balancing them string. Too big of a swaybar or too big of a spring, make the call in the middle.

Springs are dirt cheap, if you were serious about finding the right spring you would have a set ready to throw in and test with. You'll find each setup will require a different spring.

What shocks are you running?

[fatboyz39]

Quality springs arnt cheap.

[fatboyz39]

Invest in some quality dampers. Most important what kind of tyre you using?

[fatboyz39]

Then how do you choose your swaybar?!?

True, which one will you choose first? Swaybar or spring rate LOL... you'll be chasing your own tail. I like to start from OEM honda swaybar size. We currently the fastest Honda at eastern creek/wakefield and run OEM ITR swaybars. 25mm front and 22mm Rear (*could be wrong). Spring rates cant say too much but it aint no where close to spring rates mentioned.

[fatboyz39]

You need to base your spring rates off your swaybar, and sorry to burst your bubble, you won't be able to work it out by looking at your swaybar and selecting a size to suit, it's alot more complicated than that. Centre of gravity, weight distribution, ride frequency goal, weight transfer, car weight, roll centre, alot plays.

We will be providing a full tuned race setup which can be used on the street to suit each specific Honda, I'm sick of the crap from tein, buddyclub, bc, they are all shit. There is a myriad of dynoplots to prove.

The bottom line is, you cannot produce a suspension setup for every single car out there. Someone might have awesome benefits with teins and 22kg springs, and someone might prefer a softer package.

IMO, ask around like crazy.

So what are these full tuned suspension setup? Seem to say alot but not much happening?

[Riced_Civic]

if it was me my optimum set up would be OEM EK9 swaybars and 10F 8R spring rate with koni shocks.

ive heard that V8 super cars run a soft sussy set up but they have HUGE sway bars.

fatboyz wats ur EG running.

[chargeR]

You haven't given enough information for anyone to help. Where does your current setup lack?

If your shocks are any good (+wide range of adjustment) then maybe grab a pair of 12s and 14s, giving you at least 4 viable permutations to try out (9f 12r and especially 9f 14r might be a bit strange coming from 9f 5r). Most race cars are tuned the old fashion way - tweaking parameters, teasting and repeating.

A set of 4 springs will cost less than a single trackday. Race cars are expensive and if you can't afford a few spare sets of springs then perhaps suspension tuning isn't a suitable hobby.



Then how do you choose your swaybar?!?

I agree once again with everything this guy has said. I think I said a similar thing in the other thread in the suspension forum. Test, test and test again.


Quality springs arnt cheap.

Compared to a lot of other costs involved in track they are pretty cheap IMO, certainly compared to a good damper. I have bought new Swift springs for $200 a pair and used ones for closer to $100 a pair, and used race springs aren't hard to come by.

[Chr1s]

Benny, IMO, springs are cheap. What sprigns are you using?

LOL already bashing the wagon? I'll be happy to lend you a set of them when i'm done and see how you like them. I said soon didn't I? I posted that about a week ago.

[fatboyz39]

if it was me my optimum set up would be OEM EK9 swaybars and 10F 8R spring rate with koni shocks.

ive heard that V8 super cars run a soft sussy set up but they have HUGE sway bars.

fatboyz wats ur EG running.

Well back in its street/track spec was running 14kg/6kg.

[iijjee]

I'm interested in comments as my EG has aftermarket springs (who know what spring rates but pretty soft!) and ITR shocks.

I have been tracking and hillclimbing the car and it had WAY too much bodyroll and plenty of oversteer on corner entry - fun, but frustrating. I have stock EG5 rear sway (14mm?) just changed to a whiteline 22mm front sway. Haven't raced it yet but feels like front bodyroll is greatly reduced, oversteer has been replaced by understeer and although it feels a little more glued to the road, it is definitely less playful and I doubt it would be any quicker through the corners. Not a fan of plough understeer - especially when all the EG's I have owned are so balanced, even with stock EG6 sussy!

I am thinking stiffer springs all round, like 8-10kg front and 6kg rear, and, when the money is there, better shocks. Any observations?

[mugen_ctr]

get a thicker rear sway bar, for the rear, at least a 18mm i rekon, that should even up the understeer, combined with stiffer suspension should make it handle much better

[Fraser]

True, which one will you choose first? Swaybar or spring rate LOL... you'll be chasing your own tail. I like to start from OEM honda swaybar size. We currently the fastest Honda at eastern creek/wakefield and run OEM ITR swaybars. 25mm front and 22mm Rear (*could be wrong). Spring rates cant say too much but it aint no where close to spring rates mentioned.

But are you the best handling Honda, I believe you run a big hp motor which may well make up for any handling deficiencies you may or may not have .Seems like a great idea to start with OEM stuff and go from there with bars but spring rates need to match the type of tyres being used.I believe in getting the utmost out of a chassis before any motor upgrades.Without any more info I'd give the 12 and 10s a go.

[Fraser]

if it was me my optimum set up would be OEM EK9 swaybars and 10F 8R spring rate with koni shocks.

ive heard that V8 super cars run a soft sussy set up but they have HUGE sway bars.

fatboyz wats ur EG running.
The reason V8 supercars run softer springs now is because of the crappy no grip control Dunlop tyres and thats in the rear as they still need something reasonably hefty in the front to take the weight of the motor and gearbox

[MRK20CRX]

I run f: 20kg r:18 swift springs with J's Racing shocks, yes it sounds harsh, but the shock is so well designed and constructed that the ride is quite comfortable even as a daily drive. At the front I run Potenza RE-11 tyres, and KU36's at the rear. If you run higher or lower spring rates that aren't mated to the shocks, you will have problems