Who here have moved from a DC2R, DC5R, EP3R to a S2000?

[PeppeX]

I've been searching around, deciding which car i should get. I have read many threads that people change from the Type Rs to S2000 on s2ki and other sites. Everyone seem to love the S2000 and say its better than the Type Rs. I am really stuck between the two.

I don't want to buy a EP3R and end up selling it in under a year because i regret not getting an S2000 or vice versa.

I am willing to pay more for an S2000 if it will stop me from selling the EP3R in under a year. But then i also have the thought that i will sell the S2000 in under a year because of it being impractical only having 2 seats, i will feel bad i can only take 1 person at a time.

The EP3 seems to have a cult going on (Sydney EP3 thread, people recognising each others cars), while i haven't seen much of it from owning a S2000.

I think the S2000 boot will be plenty big enough, especially if i take out the spare tire.

EP3R
Pros
- 4 seats
- EP3 cult
- K20A easy to get power out of it
- After a long drive can put the seats flat and have a rest :)

Cons
- FWD :'(
- Not as sexy as the S2000

S2000
Pros
- RWD
- Sexy and appealing
- Convertible (if only EP3R had a sunroof then i don't really care)

Cons
- 2 Seater
- Can't put seats flat down to have a rest after a long drive


So my real question is why did you guys buy a Type R first then change to a S2000? Why didn't you guys just save up for a few more months and buy a S2000 straight out?

[sae]

I can't really say from personal experience but from the many things i've read over the years a lot of the guy 'can't do just that, 'save up for a few more months' and settle for an R. Others just feel it's more suitable to gain experience from driving a relatively quick fwd within the honda family before moving onto a rwd even though their characteristics are completely different. Additional factors that you might want to consider are the variable costs such as insurance. Have a rest after a long drive? Just bring a mat along and lie on the ground outside hahahaha, you'd be stopping at 'resting' pitstops on long drives anyway.

[euromandeluxe]

as far as the 'cult' thing goes theres a decent s2000 community here, just noone ever seems to want to organise meets down in Melb.

there's also the aus&nz sub-forum on s2ki where theres a spotted thread, etc, etc.

IMO nothing could beat having a RWD 2 seat 9000RPM convertible - I don't think I'll ever sell mine - but that's just me :P

[PeppeX]

as far as the 'cult' thing goes theres a decent s2000 community here, just noone ever seems to want to organise meets down in Melb.

there's also the aus&nz sub-forum on s2ki where theres a spotted thread, etc, etc.

IMO nothing could beat having a RWD 2 seat 9000RPM convertible - I don't think I'll ever sell mine - but that's just me :P

So u just went straight for the S2000? No cars before it?

Don't you ever feel the need to drive more than 1 person :P


I can't really say from personal experience but from the many things i've read over the years a lot of the guy 'can't do just that, 'save up for a few more months' and settle for an R. Others just feel it's more suitable to gain experience from driving a relatively quick fwd within the honda family before moving onto a rwd even though their characteristics are completely different. Additional factors that you might want to consider are the variable costs such as insurance. Have a rest after a long drive? Just bring a mat along and lie on the ground outside hahahaha, you'd be stopping at 'resting' pitstops on long drives anyway.

Love ur DP lol.

What do u drive?

When i said long drives i dont mean highway driving. More like driving scenic roads and once u reach the peak/destination u can just sit back in the car and enjoy the view. S2000 seats don't recline back much so it would be less comfortable :thumbdwn:

[brendan1990]

ok where do i start.... first of all with what euromandelux said about not selling it i have to disagree...i would happily sell my s2 for an ap2 lol actually considering it atm as well XD

anyway being more serious, i cant speak so much for the type r but my previous car to the s2 had plenty room bout the same size an an r, you could collapse seats do whatever, honestly the feeling of an s2 versus a 4 seater to me is just great, you feel more like your one with the car, the rear wheel's are right behind you and you have a fantastic 4 banger engine sitting in front its tight, its quick, and being so light it just feels so lively.

Here's a litte story to put it into perspective from my exp. When i had my previous car which was fwd it had good handling, i would race down to maccas with my mates all the time after exams (all of them having commonwhores) with 2 long straights and 1 large bending corner my little peugeot always got me my 3 cheeburgers first cause i could take the corner at far greater speeds, it was mad, all there boasting about who has the most power didnt mean shit at that point. not long later i sold my pug for an s2, about the 2nd day of owning it i went to that same corner and have to admit i couldnt carry the same speeds through as i did with my peugeot. 6 months later after getting more use to the car all i can say is for god sake why are my seats leather, i cant stay in my seat, you pretty much grip the steering wheel for dear life lol. i guess what im trying to say is, the sheer experience you get makes you forget about not having 4 seats.
And as far as reclining the seats goes, if your going with mates on a long trip just sit in there car, with yours in front, your car will be the view and once again you wont worry about not having 4 seats.

[brendan1990]

i would race down to maccas with my mates.

i shouldnt of said that, i ment we 'accelerated quickly to the speed limit ;)'

[damienm]

thats still illegal lol

[PeppeX]

i shouldnt of said that, i ment we 'accelerated quickly to the speed limit ;)'

LOL!

So why would u get an AP2..... Theres nothing extra, the engine is the same in aus. Unless u got 1999 AP1 model. But even then its only roof, centre console, tweeters in door, headlights, taillights and bumpers. Everything u can from online.

[sae]

y get it from online when you can get it in an ap2 minus the f22c lol :P.

[PeppeX]

Cos AP2 is like 40k. Pretty sure mods aint gonna cos 15k. Assuming he will even sell his S2000 for 25k... Also u can get bumpers that u actually like... the stock AP2 isnt that much better than the AP1.

[brendan1990]

how is it illegal to accelerate quickly?
As far as the ap2 goes i actually asked myself that today at work, and thought if i rocked up to work with a new s2 that i payed 40k for most of the guys would think im nuts, but really i think you have to own an ap1 to understand why an ap2 is that much better, im not saying all ap1 owners would agree but i think some would be on my side, when on the road i occasionally see other s2000 drivers but rarely ap2 owners, and for some reason the first ap2 i saw on the road just looked dead set meen in complete standard form, i dont think pictures do it justice. oh and it has better suspension you left that one out =P.

Little things that only count for me is that my s2 has high k's and some hail damage, which i have repaired half of and cbf with the rest, id rather just sell it for that tiny bit less and save for an ap2 that i would keep for years to come, and plan to turbo it, i raced a turbo s2 in my mates wrx at winton and **** me dead i tore evo's and sti's to shreds, i got goosebumbs everytime it roared past, thing was lethal

[PeppeX]

If u were to turbo ur S2000, i am pretty sure u would have changed ur suspension lol... Unless ur some crazy all for power dude, then u shouldnt really be driving a S2000 :P

[Emre_2144]

Just drive one then you will see how fun it is. You get over the 2-seater thing pretty quickly and now i actually prefer having two seats even for my next car. You have to think about it, how often do you really carry more than 2 people in the car. I used to have a mitsubishi gto and the back seat used to just fill up with junk because noone used to sit there anyways.

[fromdeeeast]

I have a few previous cars, Ive had a 95 Supra as my first car loved it, RWD, comfy cruiser that had balls, had 4 seats and no boot basically until u fold the seats down. I sold that then got a turbo'd DC2 VTiR. Was a bit weird going from RWD ro FWD with alot more power but was more fun imo. I loved how it would stick in corners.

Then I upgraded, I was tossing up between a DC5R or an s2000. The s2000 yes is more sexier and alot more fun to drive, the DC5R is alot roomier and has a bigger boot, 4 seats and is relatively at par with the s2000 in speed wise according to my butt dyno. I have actually been tossing up whether to sell the s2000 and go to a DC5R but I dont know, everytime I drive the s2000 it puts a smile on my face and I forget all, I usually start thinking bout it when I have to take all my shit to uni n back coz it has no room. But to be honest they are both great cars, its all personal preference.

[STAiN MASTER]

When you're in the Integra you're going always ponder about the S2000, but when you're in the S2000 you're going to ponder about the NSX...

[PeppeX]

I have a few previous cars, Ive had a 95 Supra as my first car loved it, RWD, comfy cruiser that had balls, had 4 seats and no boot basically until u fold the seats down. I sold that then got a turbo'd DC2 VTiR. Was a bit weird going from RWD ro FWD with alot more power but was more fun imo. I loved how it would stick in corners.

Then I upgraded, I was tossing up between a DC5R or an s2000. The s2000 yes is more sexier and alot more fun to drive, the DC5R is alot roomier and has a bigger boot, 4 seats and is relatively at par with the s2000 in speed wise according to my butt dyno. I have actually been tossing up whether to sell the s2000 and go to a DC5R but I dont know, everytime I drive the s2000 it puts a smile on my face and I forget all, I usually start thinking bout it when I have to take all my shit to uni n back coz it has no room. But to be honest they are both great cars, its all personal preference.

People just made FWD sound so bad... I think thats the real put off for me on the Type Rs.

I say lets do a RWD conversion on the Type Rs :)


When you're in the Integra you're going always ponder about the S2000, but when you're in the S2000 you're going to ponder about the NSX...

Bahaha NSX will never cross my mine. It will be a long time until i will be willing to spend that much money on a car.

[JamieP]

I don't see the point in spending all that extra cash on an ap2 when you can just get an ap1 and upgrade it. Even if you were to spend the extra cash and upgrade to an ap2 you'd still end up wanting to do upgrades like coilovers etc etc. At least I would anyway.

The lack of space in the s2k can get annoying but you learn to get used to it and the upside is you will no longer get stuck as a designated driver for ur mates on nights out :)

[VeYzZii]

I moved from a dc5r to the s2. Only reason was because it got stolen, and if i went and got another dc5r, it would be like getting a gf that looks exactly like the ex..
I bought the dc5r for 23, 62000 kms on the clock, 03 model and i was in love with it. Totally inlove with it. It was my first real car, other then utes and vans. There is something special about those cars. Maybe it was because i bought from a dealer, and when you buy from a dealer you feel as though the cars brand new, and your the only one that ever drove it. The s2 i bought for 22. If i had my time over again, i would probably go with the dc5.. They where both the same price, but for 23 you get a very decent dc5r, or a close to low line s2000.. If your budget is endless, s2000 all the way. But if you have a budget of around 20-25, i would go with the dc5r or ep3. Everything was so smooth on my dc5r. I hope the thiefs rot. I had insurance, but they took my baby away from me. And there was not many dc5rs as clean and smooth and comfy and clean and smooth as that one.. Fluck i miss it.

[PeppeX]

I moved from a dc5r to the s2. Only reason was because it got stolen, and if i went and got another dc5r, it would be like getting a gf that looks exactly like the ex..
I bought the dc5r for 23, 62000 kms on the clock, 03 model and i was in love with it. Totally inlove with it. It was my first real car, other then utes and vans. There is something special about those cars. Maybe it was because i bought from a dealer, and when you buy from a dealer you feel as though the cars brand new, and your the only one that ever drove it. The s2 i bought for 22. If i had my time over again, i would probably go with the dc5.. They where both the same price, but for 23 you get a very decent dc5r, or a close to low line s2000.. If your budget is endless, s2000 all the way. But if you have a budget of around 20-25, i would go with the dc5r or ep3. Everything was so smooth on my dc5r. I hope the thiefs rot. I had insurance, but they took my baby away from me. And there was not many dc5rs as clean and smooth and comfy and clean and smooth as that one.. Fluck i miss it.

Sorry to heard ur car got stolen. But is it really that common? Didnt u have alarm system or immobiliser?

[foowoei69]

Does an eg with dc2r everything count? I sold that and bought a wrx.. Hahaha. Yeah. Big mistake.. Imo anyways.. I decided to go backto honda.
Actually I wanted my eg back. But that wasn't goin to happen. And besides that.. I really wanted a rwd. Just to add that extra fun factor into it. So the s2k fits the bill perfect. I don't think I can change from the s2k now. I love it too much..
If u have access to another car.. Then the space issue isn't really a problem. Also if u wanna mod the thing or keep it stock? the s2k isn't exactly cheap to mod also there arent so many parts in oz. But then again it depends on how far u wanna go.

[PeppeX]

Does an eg with dc2r everything count? I sold that and bought a wrx.. Hahaha. Yeah. Big mistake.. Imo anyways.. I decided to go backto honda.
Actually I wanted my eg back. But that wasn't goin to happen. And besides that.. I really wanted a rwd. Just to add that extra fun factor into it. So the s2k fits the bill perfect. I don't think I can change from the s2k now. I love it too much..
If u have access to another car.. Then the space issue isn't really a problem. Also if u wanna mod the thing or keep it stock? the s2k isn't exactly cheap to mod also there arent so many parts in oz. But then again it depends on how far u wanna go.

Yeah EG counts, pretty much any FWD honda. But Type Rs are just closer to the price of S2000 so thats what i am splitting up between.

So why did u regret the WRX? Should have got an Evo :D

Well i aint planning to throw a truck load of money into the S2000, but i will definately get exhaust and intake and see how it goes after that.

[Perry]

PeppeX I use to own a s2k before before buying my current ep3, it really depends on what you want out of the both cars.
Keep in mind modding both the cars aren't cheap.

[JamieP]

foowoi69, your the second person Ive met whos had an s2000 and a wrx and hated the rexy in comparison to the s2000. Well unless your infact the same dude who I purchased my rims from a year ago? :P

Its funny, the only people Ive ever heard bad reviews on a wrx from have been s2000 owners. what was it you didnt like about it? I do have to agree with peppex though, I would much rather an evo to a wrx. Their has been many times Ive thought about trading in my s2k for an evo and I still think I may end up doing it one day. I just hate the way they look, their such a boring ricey looking car to look at and the s2k is so beautiful. But the way an evo drives is just insane and the practicality of it is great as well

[PeppeX]

PeppeX I use to own a s2k before before buying my current ep3, it really depends on what you want out of the both cars.
Keep in mind modding both the cars aren't cheap.

So what made u change to the EP3? S2k not practical enough?

Would you say the S2000 is much more enjoyable than the EP3?

[foowoei69]

I found the wrx boring to drive.. U don't drive it. It drives u. U just kinda put ur foot down and it goes like stink then u brake and turn. And itll just go around. Its pretty much idiot proof, or give u that sense anyways. Which makes it kinda boring. Plus the steering feedback sucks. And so is the consuption and the key pad immobilizer. The steering wheel is as big as a boats. The gear stick is at ur ankles. The doors sound like they just gathered all the nuts and bolts and just chucked it in the door so when u close it, it clucks like a tin can. Well. The one I had felt like a tin can. Lol. Dunno. Felt like I was driving just a tractor or something. Hahaha. A really fast one.. I guess i just didnt like the feeling of the car as in the feedback, response and ergonomics of it.. It would have cost me a bomb to make it as fun as I would want it to be.. And if u did manage to get it to that stage. I doubt it would be street legal nor would maintaining it as a daily be feasible for my income. Lol. And besides that.. Every idiot comes up next to u and wants to drag, the police harras u for no reason. Pull u over check for bovs and stuff like that.. Just troublesome. I don't get that with the S
Also you have drive it to get the most out of it. Most cars like the Subaru understeer when pushed too far, for safety reasons. The S on the other hand oversteers when pushed too far.
So it keeps driving more challenging and fun.. Especially on wet days.. Oo. It becomes interesting. :) then sunny day it's like another car.. Roof down. 9krpm. Like a 4 wheeled bike. Lol
Its not the fastest thing out there. But it sure is one of the most fun.

If u often carry passengers or need space for larger items on a regular basis or its the only car u got and goin to have easy access too then get the ep3. I mean I wouldn't recommend the s2k if it's the only car u got. Like in my case I got the misses a rav4 and we usually take that for short trips for food and stuff like that coz I don't have to worry about really steep driveways bigass speed bumps. Little sh!*s with nothing to do and like to slash roofs.. If I need to pick someone up and ur woman wants to come along..lol its one of those cars u need insurence on.
But IMO if its the only car in my house then id have to get the ep3. But coz I got 2 all good. Even if its not my car. Like say my folks are around. The no worries at all. Lol :)

[VeYzZii]

Sorry to heard ur car got stolen. But is it really that common? Didnt u have alarm system or immobiliser?


Yea dude, i know people that came back to their itr's to find the car and everything there, but no seats.. Everything about the itrs are just so... coool.. They got recaro seats, momo steering wheel, k20 engine which just seems to fit in most hondas, hectic shifters and usually have good sound system. I had focal splits and focal coaxials.. there worth about 2g by themself.. It had an immobiliser, no alarm.. Im guessing it was the dealer i bought it off..

[JamieP]

damn man, how can you have all those goodies in your car and no alarm?!?! I hope you have one on your s2k! Ive got a spare alarm system floating around at home somwhere if you dont. itd be a shame to go through that again.

although alarm systems can be a pain at times as well. mine went off the other night when we were having that heavy rain because it some how managed to get wet and woke all my neighbors up

[PeppeX]

@foowoei69

Since u dont like cars that understeer at the limit therefore u pretty much only drive RWD cars and disliked the original EG you had haha

[Perry]

So what made u change to the EP3? S2k not practical enough?

Would you say the S2000 is much more enjoyable than the EP3?

I sold my s2k due to I use to work in the city and I don't drive it enough hence why I sold it. I find the s2k was practical enough for daily use with occasional times I needed a another car to move big items I guess give and take for that part.
Honestly I find both the s2k and ep3 are enjoyable to drive just one is a hot hatch and other a convertible so I consider them both are the top cars to drive in that category. I went to a ep3 just purely because I'm a Civic Type R fan and the price was right at the time.
Stock for stock I like the ep3 more but once modded hands down for a s2k =).

[PeppeX]

I sold my s2k due to I use to work in the city and I don't drive it enough hence why I sold it. I find the s2k was practical enough for daily use with occasional times I needed a another car to move big items I guess give and take for that part.
Honestly I find both the s2k and ep3 are enjoyable to drive just one is a hot hatch and other a convertible so I consider them both are the top cars to drive in that category. I went to a ep3 just purely because I'm a Civic Type R fan and the price was right at the time.
Stock for stock I like the ep3 more but once modded hands down for a s2k =).

What mods did u do to ur S2000?

I would have thought u would like the EP3 better once u add mods to it.

[Perry]

What mods did u do to ur S2000?

I would have thought u would like the EP3 better once u add mods to it.

I only had a intake but I have been in my makes one with intake, exhaust, coils etc the car was in totally different league. Having said that my current ep3 has the usual intake,exhaust and coilovers and having to compare the 2 is hard if I have to i'll take the S.
Have you test drive a ep3 and s2k yet?

[PeppeX]

I only had a intake but I have been in my makes one with intake, exhaust, coils etc the car was in totally different league. Having said that my current ep3 has the usual intake,exhaust and coilovers and having to compare the 2 is hard if I have to i'll take the S.
Have you test drive a ep3 and s2k yet?

I only drive an auto jazz atm. I've driven a manual before but have minimal experience so i doubt i will be able to test either car to their potential. But i will go check out both cars in person after uni exams :).

Where abouts are u in sydney? Take me for a drive :D?

[JamieP]

A jazz to an s2k, now that's a change! Just take some time to get used to driving/handling the car before you push it to it's potential if you buy one

[blk_shadow]

I used to really want an S2k after selling the EK, but then moved to EP3 cos the S2k I want got sold. The EP3 is very good (I got an 04 version) and mod it. The only thing I'm selling the EP3 now is because I want a DC5 cos I've been falling in love with it since ages ago, just never thought of buying one until now.

Thing with S2k is (besides the very limited space) is the engine is too 'perfect' from the factory, therefore when you install bolt ons, it wont respond to them really well. Unlike the K series, they just come 'alive'. Thats to me anyway.

[PeppeX]

Yeah i saw ur car up for sale. Looks pretty awesome. Any buyers interested yet? Probs easier to change it back to stock and sell parts and car alone.

Why do like the DC5? The EP3 got the K20A. Its got nothing on the EP3, except maybe the looks but thats personal preference. I still like the EP3 look over DC5.

[blk_shadow]

Thx bro :)
There are couple who are willing to buy it, but they need to sell their cars first and I can't wait that long.

I've already parted out some parts and sell them separately. But the remaining will be with the car, quite a bargain buy. ppl who knows me can vouch for the car too.

I think I like the DC5 is because personal preference, I want something other than hatch as well. sure EP3 is faster, but yeah, just wanted a different look :)

[Age_S2000]

mate i own an S2K and i regret not getting a DC2 Type R :(

[PeppeX]

mate i own an S2K and i regret not getting a DC2 Type R :(

Elaborate please?

[foowoei69]

@ peppex
Actually I really miss my eg... I wish I didn't sell it.. But I did. :(
I can't explain y I hated the wrx.. There's a few reasons y I didn't like it..
The main reason I guess I just prefer hondas engineering concept over Subarus. I also preffer Light with high rpms. Honda IMO have better feel and feed back.. Everything seems to be made that little bit better too.. And is heaps easier to work on urself. Lol saves u heaps of time in maintainence.. Go try and change the subie spark plugs.. Lol. Or change radiator fluid.
I was planning on building another eg coz I love it so much..maybe i can sell the womans rav4 to build it. Lol.. But this time with a k series coz I want the 6th gear.. Or maybe in auto for her..then I'll use the 2.4 Haha....
Also No one used to look at my old civic. But when I had the wrx everyone wants to drag..
Was kind of a pain.

[PeppeX]

@ peppex
Actually I really miss my eg... I wish I didn't sell it.. But I did. :(
I can't explain y I hated the wrx.. There's a few reasons y I didn't like it..
The main reason I guess I just prefer hondas engineering concept over Subarus. I also preffer Light with high rpms. Honda IMO have better feel and feed back.. Everything seems to be made that little bit better too.. And is heaps easier to work on urself. Lol saves u heaps of time in maintainence.. Go try and change the subie spark plugs.. Lol. Or change radiator fluid.
I was planning on building another eg coz I love it so much..maybe i can sell the womans rav4 to build it. Lol.. But this time with a k series coz I want the 6th gear.. Or maybe in auto for her..then I'll use the 2.4 Haha....
Also No one used to look at my old civic. But when I had the wrx everyone wants to drag..
Was kind of a pain.

If i knew how to build a car i would get an EG too and put a K20 in it, but sadly i dont :(

But once u start maintaining stuff urself instead of going to a shop, its harder to sell the car since u dont have a perfect log book. But i guess the EG is quite a old car and ppl dont really look for log books.

Do u service the S2000 urself?

[brendan1990]

Thing with S2k is (besides the very limited space) is the engine is too 'perfect' from the factory, therefore when you install bolt ons, it wont respond to them really well. Unlike the K series, they just come 'alive'. Thats to me anyway.

i just thought that was jsut with most n/a engines it is a strugle to get alot more power out of them.


When you're in the Integra you're going always ponder about the S2000, but when you're in the S2000 you're going to ponder about the NSX...

omg i could not agree more! mmmmm nsx....


foowoi69, your the second person Ive met whos had an s2000 and a wrx and hated the rexy in comparison to the s2000. Well unless your infact the same dude who I purchased my rims from a year ago? :P

Its funny, the only people Ive ever heard bad reviews on a wrx from have been s2000 owners. what was it you didnt like about it? I do have to agree with peppex though, I would much rather an evo to a wrx. Their has been many times Ive thought about trading in my s2k for an evo and I still think I may end up doing it one day. I just hate the way they look, their such a boring ricey looking car to look at and the s2k is so beautiful. But the way an evo drives is just insane and the practicality of it is great as well

hey just thought i would add my contribution, i work at subaru and wouldnt even trade my s for an sti, i have considered it but have seen s2's demolish wrx's and seen turbo s2's demolish sti's and at the end of the day both evo's and wrx's look ugly in comparison, dunno about evo's but wrx's are pretty poor quality especially interior wise, sti's are slightly better but still meh. there more practical but thats about it and they cant hold there value to save themselves, literally.

[foowoei69]

I didn't have the log books for the civic.. But i serviced it according to the service schedule and I had all the receipts for everything I've done to it, even the oils and filter.. I pulled out a spark plug to show te guy the piston tops.. They were still shiny like new. Lol. When I saw that I wanted to bail out of the sale. Lol but I already had my mind set on the wrx and put a deposit on it already. So I needed to sell the car.. I didn't reallize how much I would really regret it then.. Its hard to find a decent engine these days.. And the k isn't cheap enough for me to consider yet coz u still need more parts after that. Lol.. Besides I don't have the space or time anymore anyways.. And i Don't work as a mechanic anymore..
My S is serviced by mechanic and myself.. My mechanic does every scheduled service to keep the books up to date but I'll do a service in-between if I feel the need for it. I like to keep all fluids fresh as possible. Easiest way to keep the car healthy and running at it's best and for as long as possible is to keep the fluids fresh and clean. Even if u thrash it. Just service it alittle more often. Ud be surprised at how much difference it will make. But isn't worth it in the long run if ur going to a stealership but if u diy oils and filters. It saves u alot and helps the motor live abit longer.. IMO anyways. Especially with my S.. I love it so much I never want to sell it. Later on when the stock motors dead..then I might look at goin crazy with it.. By then I should have normal daily driver.. Or a family car.. Lol.. And this will become my Sunday driver.. So maybe it will be rebuilt for boost.. Or going abit off topic but
I saw the yanks doin a small block v8 from a chevy.. Lol.. The engine actually fits like the f20c does. It sits behind the shock mounts and sits in there quite nicely. Lol
They recon the weight if the engine is only about 100 pounds heavier than the f20c and then they corner weighted the car and it supposidly became truly 50/50 proportions. They reconed the s is actually like 48f/52r. But that was without ac coz it dont fit anymore or abs. If it's all true and I can get that v to rev to 9k(like Audi or Ferrari v8s) to keep the theme.
I wonder how a small block v8 in the S set up properly would be.. It would be crazy if it could handle the same as it still does.. Just with way too much power but atleast it'll still be n/a. Hahaha
Haha how fat would the tyres be to keep traction..

[EVLGTR]

When you're in the Integra you're going always ponder about the S2000, but when you're in the S2000 you're going to ponder about the NSX...


People just made FWD sound so bad... I think thats the real put off for me on the Type Rs.

I say lets do a RWD conversion on the Type Rs

Do what i did DC2R and jump straight to an R32 GT-R...have the best of both worlds....DC2R is, and still, my first car...its fast but still pondered for more speed

One day....possibly one day!...i'll sell both cars and just get an S2000.

This is an S2000 section, im not supposed to be here but enjoy your S2000 guys/gals :thumbsup: :wave:

[Jezzah]

mate, in my opinion get the s2000. Ive had a dc2r, they're fun. but then curiosity kicks in and make you wonder what pleasures a topless rwd vtec machine can give you. Thats right, orgasmic.
And thats why ive sold my R.

[Age_S2000]

S2K pros - topless and the push of a button, head turner, 9k rpm redline, fast.

S2K cons - weak gearboxs, weak diffs, weak driveshafts, VERY expencive to buy parts for (also alot harder then ITR to get parts for ie: wreckers or bursons or repco etc), VERY expencive to mod N/A or Forced,

ITR pros - Fast, reliable, cheap and easy to get parts for, easier and cheaper to mod N/A or Forced and also very nice looking inside and out :D


for those who dont knw i do own an s2k atm :)

[brendan1990]

S2K cons - weak gearboxs, weak diffs, weak driveshafts, VERY expencive to buy parts for (also alot harder then ITR to get parts for ie: wreckers or bursons or repco etc), VERY expencive to mod N/A or Forced,

ITR pros - Fast, reliable, cheap and easy to get parts for, easier and cheaper to mod N/A or Forced and also very nice looking inside and out :D



i didnt know the gearbox was weak what experience taught you this? diff yeah i can agree with that, driveshafts well....s2 rear drive shafts are pretty thick, i would imagine it being pretty hard to break one in stock form. as for modding i think any fi on an s2 is just the bees knees.

[jboi]

S2000
Cons
- 2 Seater
- Can't put seats flat down to have a rest after a long drive


You could actually sleep properly if you position ur head on the centre cabinet, could sleep der for at least an hr without gettin any strains. :D
as for two seats saves you driving around the whole of sydney after a party b4 jumping to sleep

[foowoei69]

So have u decided which one to get yet?
Like age_s2000 said about Gbox, diff and shafts, (well actually It's not the shafts that stuff up.. It's the inner cvs that tend to wear out) bein weak and maintainence and parts are almost double of the teggy.
The s2k IMO will give u more driving pleasure/fun in the long run, purely coz it's rwd. Imo rwd is that little bit more challenging at the limit. And especially fun on wet days.
Butboth cars are great fun and built well.
I suppose it'll be wether u want rwd or u need the extra seats.

[Clio]

Parts for the s2k are cheap I think, I don't feel they are jacked up to any great extent. Typical maintenance bits and bobs are comparable to other jap cars I've owned.

[PeppeX]

I got an EP3. Think i am pretty happy with it :).

[drsilliez]

prelude 5th gen ---->s2000 :D

[euromandeluxe]

this vids pretty interesting, old school top gear EP3R vs S2000 on a damp track

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSHm97xrVCA

don't know why he talks about turning traction control off in the AP1 though.

[AusS2000]

Not me.

I've never been a fan of Honda's FWD econoboxes.

Previous car was a BMW318is.

[VeYzZii]

this vids pretty interesting, old school top gear EP3R vs S2000 on a damp track

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSHm97xrVCA

don't know why he talks about turning traction control off in the AP1 though.

Both total duds..

[r3ckless]

Not me.

I've never been a fan of Honda's FWD econoboxes.

Previous car was a BMW318is.
But that shows how much u know... Plus your bmw 318 is an actual econobox for bmw's...

[AusS2000]

Well, enlighten me. Tell me why Honda makes FWD vehicles then? And why BMW refuses to.

<hides behind his turbo charged S2000>

[Samm928]

DC2R k20/k24 allmotor To a S2000.. so slow.. jhaha its fun though..

[ryan19]

i went from a 2004 euro luxury to a DC5R with cams,after marked ecu,header and the rest to a s2k

i cant comment about the s2k as had it 1 month n never driven it or anyother s2ks

but the dc5r is a really nice car to drive imo and defently has the power and handling to match

i was considering the ep3r but the gear stick posision is wat turned me away

all in all,all 3 are quick na cars hard choise

[vtecing]

Well, enlighten me. Tell me why Honda makes FWD vehicles then? And why BMW refuses to.

<hides behind his turbo charged S2000>

Honda's very first crack as a mass produced passenger car was the s500 which was a very successfull chain driven rwd car. The whole reason Honda started producing FWD cars was because Japan was leading the world with economical, cheap to make, cheap to own small cars, and Honda wanted to keep up with everyone else.

The first type R that was built was a mid engine rwd super car. Then Honda went back to what they do best (making economical fwd small cars) and took an ordinary every day car and turned it into a race car.

I can't say why BMW will only make rwd cars, maybe it has something to do with pride, but at the same time, just because it's rwd doesnt mean its fast

[euromandeluxe]

I can't say why BMW will only make rwd cars, maybe it has something to do with pride, but at the same time, just because it's rwd doesnt mean its fast

Because a lot of purists consider RWD to be the proper drivetrain layout. The front wheels are for steering, the rear for pushing. Most if not all high performance race cars are RWD too. The driving dynamics are much better.
Front drive cars can be very, very good, but they run out of potential fast.

I used to have a euro. I loved it and didnt mind the FWD but i'm in an s2k now and will never look at FWD again.

This sums up BMW's philosophy pretty well:
http://adsoftheworld.com/files/images/Rabbit_0.jpg

[vtecing]

I went from fwd >awd >fwd >rwd>fwd>rwd and back to fwd and id have to say that the fwd cars were a lot more fun when going fast, not as fun for skids though

[AusS2000]

Companies produce FWD cars because it is cheaper. Cheaper = Economy. That is why I describe most Honda's as 'econo-boxes'.

BMW doesn't produce FWD cars because it refuses to sacrifice 'performance' (notice I didn't say 'speed') for cheapness.

All that said, when Honda produce a RWD car (NSX, S2000) they do a damn good job of it.

[Sampson]

I had a DC5 R great car my brother bought it off me and then I bought a S2000 love it. Have owned it for near 4years now can not see myself changing for a very very long time I used to update to different car every 2 years not anymore. The difference is simple the S2000 is a purpose built sports car. Its not based on a mass produced fwd frame. The DC5 R has a great looking body and drives well but the S2000 is in another league, roof down vtec is awesome. Buy the S2000 you will not regret it.

[vtecing]

Companies produce FWD cars because it is cheaper. Cheaper = Economy. That is why I describe most Honda's as 'econo-boxes'.

BMW doesn't produce FWD cars because it refuses to sacrifice 'performance' (notice I didn't say 'speed') for cheapness.

All that said, when Honda produce a RWD car (NSX, S2000) they do a damn good job of it.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/60319/bmw-confirms-front-wheel-drive-model-to-sit-beneath-1-series/

[AusS2000]

Damn, you've proved me wrong. BMW are prepared to sacrifice performance for cheapness after the GFC.

[greek_rambos2k]

i had a dcr2 for a bit before i had my s2k. i have to say i love the s2k much more.

[Hasbeen]

I have just given a Pergeot convertible to my daughter, because ir was front drive, & I hated it.

The first car we got for my eldest was a Prelude, & it was a great car, with great feel, but you could not drive it properly, because the power went to the wrong wheels.

You only have to look at the results of things like Taga Tasmania to see that front drive is never quick. That is why so much quick stuff has gone AWD, on their front drive base.

I knew that a rear drive Honda would be good, but the S2000 may be a bit too good. They have made it so easy to drive quickly that I expect quite a few drivers have no idea how close to the limit they are getting.

[Hasbeen]

AusS2000, would you please advise, is your avatar sitting there, idling a little lumpily with a hot cam,
or is it quietly laughing at everyone.

It does look to have an evil sense of humor.

[vtecing]

Im just a fan of the under dog. I think its great that a fwd with such a little na engine can keep up with the big boys. But I am hoping to own an s2000 track car one day

[PeppeX]

I think i will end up getting an S2000 as a weekend car when i am older. I really prefer to get AP2 because of the interior and rear lights. I still prefer AP1 headlights with amber indicator MUCH MUCH MORE :).

I believe AP2 also has better suspension geometry? Correct me if i am wrong.

FOR NOW i love my EP3R :)

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/czman863/4910975184_0f9fe152a9_b.jpg

[RSKEbaby]

I own a dc2r, and after test driving a few s2ks, I will be selling and upgrading soon 100% !

[doosra]

I just sold my s2k in June and now waiting to pick up my ep3 on Tuesday. S2k is a great car and I miss driving it, but I needed a hardtop as I'll be parking at station and didn't want to park the s2k there. Will let u know my verdict in a couple weeks

[Perry]

I still miss my S after all these years will eventually go back to one.

[Indie]

Damn, you've proved me wrong. BMW are prepared to sacrifice performance for cheapness after the GFC.It's not just 'cheapness' though, as that's over-simplifying the issue. It makes more sense for the corporation to share a platform between the Mini and the 1 Series, for many reasons. It's unfortunate, but how many enthusiasts (the only people who care about RWD) buy BMW 1 Series? Nowhere near enough to justify its own platform.

I always would have bought a Mini over a 1 Series anyway, because the latter is ****ing hideous.

[butterfingers]

Ep3 because a truly clean s2k is hard to find. And even harder to mod.

[doosra]

I'm loving the ep3. So fuel efficient. Just filled up 38L and it got me 380kms :)

[supersaiyan]

in response to OP's CONs - Cant put seats flat down to have a rest after a long drive?

does ep3r rear seats fold down straight 100%?

and doosra what fuel economy did you get from your s2000?

i'm about 180cm+ alot of people say its not for tall people some people say its fine? does any s2k owners wanna comment on that?

i'm still thinking dc5r/ep3r/s2k, it's so hard to decide !!

[beanz]

193cm here, I have bys seat rail to lower oem seat a bit.

[euromandeluxe]

I'm loving the ep3. So fuel efficient. Just filled up 38L and it got me 380kms :)

I usually get 10L/100km from my S.
And I don't drive it like a grandma if you get what I mean.

[euromandeluxe]

i'm about 180cm+ alot of people say its not for tall people some people say its fine? does any s2k owners wanna comment on that?



That depends on if you have long legs or a long torso. There isn't a lot of leg room so if you have spider legs it may be cramped. There's plenty of headroom with the roof up. I'm 183ish cm and I'm pretty comfortable but long boring drives are annoying.

[doosra]

I used to get only 400kms on a full tank with my s2k and I would mainly cruise so I've noticed the saving in the ep3.

Ep3 seats don't fold straight

[doosra]

Is there a boot release button inside the ep3? I can't find it

[EG52NV]

Is there a boot release button inside the ep3? I can't find it

No such thing, boot is unlocked when doors unlocked

[_Dee]

thinking of getting an s2k, found a blue one, abit cheap for what i reckon it should be with 100ks. Only recently bought a dc5r and i love the drive when im sitting in it but once i park it and walk off, it doesnt look any special to me, so i guess kinda a love hate relo for me with my itr, def want an s2k but without logbooks and service history... very sketchy >.> whereas my itr has all

[black8thgen]

i think i know which one ur tlaking about it. the one on gumtree? ive checked that out a while ago (was up for sale 2-3 months back) and it was very very dodgy. shit engine bay, roof was fkd, condition overall was quite poor and the owner was himself not the most straight-up guy. stay away!

[manonastick]

i think i know which one ur tlaking about it. the one on gumtree? ive checked that out a while ago (was up for sale 2-3 months back) and it was very very dodgy. shit engine bay, roof was fkd, condition overall was quite poor and the owner was himself not the most straight-up guy. stay away!

Yes i saw that one too. . .
the engine light was on. . . bumper was damaged and not aligned with the car, roof needs fixing and the interior was in pretty poor condition. . . and no log books. . .
its not on ppsr though lol, you need hell of a bargin if you wanted to buy it.
soo hard to find clean s2k these days lol

[VeYzZii]

thinking of getting an s2k, found a blue one, abit cheap for what i reckon it should be with 100ks. Only recently bought a dc5r and i love the drive when im sitting in it but once i park it and walk off, it doesnt look any special to me, so i guess kinda a love hate relo for me with my itr, def want an s2k but without logbooks and service history... very sketchy >.> whereas my itr has all

Thats true. With the s2ks these days, if it looks to good to be true, it normally is. You cant go buy the KM readings anymore (to many dodgy wound back odos). Your best bet is to check general wear and tear that would go as more kms are put on. Seats, carpet, gear stick, steering wheel, engine cleanliness, how many bugs that radiator has snapped up.. Little shit like that will tell you more about the car than the odo (in dodged up car scenarios).

[butterfingers]

Thats true. With the s2ks these days, if it looks to good to be true, it normally is. You cant go buy the KM readings anymore (to many dodgy wound back odos). Your best bet is to check general wear and tear that would go as more kms are put on. Seats, carpet, gear stick, steering wheel, engine cleanliness, how many bugs that radiator has snapped up.. Little shit like that will tell you more about the car than the odo (in dodged up car scenarios).

Not many car enthusiasts buy s2000. They treat it like a toy/vanity ride and therefore lack the attention to detail. The ones that do look after it obviously love it too much to sell it.

[EVLGTR]

why would anyone in the right mind want to move from a DC2 Type R. come on....

[VeYzZii]

why would anyone in the right mind want to move from a DC2 Type R. come on....

To go faster..

[manonastick]

Anyone movied from a ek?
Im coming from a stock as hell ek to s2k now lol

[butterfingers]

^ big jump

you'll love it lol.

[VeYzZii]

Just ran into this in The Telegraph:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-news/brothers-lucky-escape-from-joyride-gone-wrong/story-e6freuzi-1226453794442

[manonastick]

Not many car enthusiasts buy s2000. They treat it like a toy/vanity ride and therefore lack the attention to detail. The ones that do look after it obviously love it too much to sell it.

Soo.. these days we are left with poor conditioned s2000 to choose from :C
If there not much good condition s2k might as well spend good money bringing it too a better condition

[black8thgen]

or wait for a good condition one to pop up, they do come up, but get snapped up within 2-3 weeks

[doosra]

I sold mine in 3 days but surprisingly only got one phone call in 3 days so first person came saw it and bought it. I would've thought there would be more interest considering how everyone says how hard it is to find a good one.

[black8thgen]

i remember yours, looked like a really good example. 3 day sale is pretty impressive lol

[doosra]

Yeah, was so glad it sold so quickly. Posted it midday, got a call at 8pm, next day viewing and deposit, then the day after took it to mechanic to check over and then sold. My bmw 120I on the other hand, 3 phone calls in one month and no one came to view so I cut my losses and traded in for ep3 :)

[Hasbeen]

I can't agree that good ones go quickly.

My 2001 model had only 27,500 Km on the clock, was in mint condition, & properly serviced.
Sure the owner wanted top dollar, but it had been on the market for over 6 weeks before I decided it was worth driving almost 200Km each way, to look at it.
I had been trying to find a good one in Brisbane, & preferred a quiet grey, rather than a bright yellow, however the only other 2 really good cars for sale at the time had red seats, which I did not like.
I went, I saw, I bought, to paraphrase the old saying, even if it was yellow, but some of those quite nice cars took some time to sell.
There were also some quite nice cars for sale in the low to mid twenties, as it would appear there are now.
Oh, & the car is everything I hoped for, & have got to really like yellow.

[black8thgen]

i think colour has a big thing to do with it. ive noticed yellow and silver don't sell nearly as fast as the good conditioned and reasonably priced white/black/blue cars. even a really clean red one was up for at least 5-6 weeks before it got sold.

[manonastick]

Is buying a s2k with logbooks a must? I seen a few which looked very clean car wise but they dont come with log books. . .

[black8thgen]

if ur referring to the blue one on gumtree... stay clear. i spoke to the owner and asked him how many owners the car has had and he replied with "i dont take notice of little things like that, the car drives really well". He kept reiterating the fact that the car 'drives well'. Seemed in a rush to sell (probably something very wrong with the car), albeit i will admit from the pics it looks clean, but those pics could have been taken 2 yrs ago for all we know =P

i think log books are not a MUST, but definitely a big big bonus and a good sign the car has been treated well. if u do all the mechanical checks (compression etc) and there is no chassis damage, a missing logbook will just mean u get less resale out of it.

[manonastick]

if ur referring to the blue one on gumtree... stay clear. i spoke to the owner and asked him how many owners the car has had and he replied with "i dont take notice of little things like that, the car drives really well". He kept reiterating the fact that the car 'drives well'. Seemed in a rush to sell (probably something very wrong with the car), albeit i will admit from the pics it looks clean, but those pics could have been taken 2 yrs ago for all we know =P

i think log books are not a MUST, but definitely a big big bonus and a good sign the car has been treated well. if u do all the mechanical checks (compression etc) and there is no chassis damage, a missing logbook will just mean u get less resale out of it.

Nah not the blue one theres another blue one listed that one was in good nick, engine bay down to the mods were top stuff just a few i have seen doesn't hav log books. Im going to do a mech inspection so don't you worry about that, I offered the guy with the dodgy blue on 14k and he was happy to take that offer but i was only joking around lol.

[black8thgen]

LOL 14k? wtf.. hahaha goes to show it must be fuked....

is the blue one on carsales or gumtree? cos the one i was talking about was the more expensive one on gumtree

[manonastick]

The 14k guy was the 16.5k on on gumtree. I said i will only take it for 14k after a mech inspection and he was happy so i dont think its that bad. I also checked the more expensive blue one on gum tree and the car outside/inside was in great condition.

[black8thgen]

really? interesting.... but 14k really seems like a sign telling u to stay clear dude... well if u end up getting the inspection let me know how it goes lol. i went to see that one and everything about it seemed terrible... bad condition overall

[manonastick]

really? interesting.... but 14k really seems like a sign telling u to stay clear dude... well if u end up getting the inspection let me know how it goes lol. i went to see that one and everything about it seemed terrible... bad condition overall

Funny thing is. . . his the only guy that has 2 original keys + red key + original manual . . . The way neater ones i checked are like one sets of keys only and not even the manual . . those ones are the ones listed for 20k above. . .

[black8thgen]

weird..........

[VeYzZii]

Funny thing is. . . his the only guy that has 2 original keys + red key + original manual . . . The way neater ones i checked are like one sets of keys only and not even the manual . . those ones are the ones listed for 20k above. . .

You can buy manuals online. You can also buy service logbooks online.

[sae]

i don't think logbooks are always a deal breaker.

My logbook hasn't been touched since i got the car because i do all my own services lol..

[Hasbeen]

Sae I do my own servicing too, however I fill out the log book, & keep the receipts for oil, filters etc, so I have a record of what was used for myself.

This will also provide a record of the maintenance done on the car, when the time comes to sell.

[butterfingers]

in relation to resale, buyers wont like the fact you service it yourself.

they dont know what kind of person you are, whether you have mechanical prowess or not and how meticulous you are at keeping your car mechanically A1.

if i was to buy a car from Robert of Hannys, id trust if there were no log books cos i know who he is and his expertise with Hondas (or do i?)

if i was buying a car off a 21 year old, how can you be sure he even knows how to change oil properly?

log books or not, an inspection and a test drive is the only way you can be sure of the condition of the car.

[euromandeluxe]

The 2-3k you lose from the sale for not having logbooks is more than made up for in the amount of money you save servicing the car yourself.
The issue is how much more difficult it might be to sell. If the car is in genuinely good shape and the buyer is diligent with inspections I don't see why there should be any problem.

[doosra]

Some ppl may not even consider looking at a car without log books so you minimize the buyers market without log books.

[Indie]

I'm sure that some of you can service your car properly, but there's no way for anybody else to know that. I would never buy a car that somebody has "serviced themselves", because more often than not, it means that the car as actually just been neglected.

[beanz]

I service my car. I have the means to pay a dealer but I don't trust them, they know what they're doing but in my opinion they are generally pushed too hard to get the job done quickly rather than properly. I also get a sense of satisfaction from working on my car.
I purchase original parts, keep all receipts and have never had trouble selling cars I have owned.

[Hasbeen]

Indie, saying no way, or never, is a very foolish way to go. In my case you would be robbing yourself of a chance to buy a 32000Km S, which will be much better maintained than would be a dealer serviced car. The fact that you could look at the couple of Triumphs that I have restored should reassure you, as would perhaps the information of the F1 & F11 cars I maintained back in the day.

The only car we get regularly serviced by a dealer is my wife's Mazda 2. I do find I have to keep a close watch on them, as the servicing is not as good as I would like. It is only continued as I can't be bothered with the thing myself.

At least our Mazda dealer does the job, if a little perfunctory, unlike the Ford dealer who had not disturbed the chalk marks my son put on his Ranger before having it serviced. When confronted with the evidence & photos they did at least tear up the invoice.

I bought the car 18 months ago with only 27500Km on the thing. I did get my nearest Honda dealer to do a major service, & change all fluids & hoses for me, an $1,800 job. Unfortunately on the way home, the thing started to get a little over normal temperature. They had under filled the coolant by almost half a litre.

Would you suggest I go back to them? I certainly won't be.

[aozora]

Service log books are "comforting" for people who don't know what to look at. You could send your car to the dealer to service every 500km and still have a pos on your hands if the owner bounces off the rev limiter constantly, clutch dumps at every set of lights or gutter bashes regularly while fish tailing their way to the dealer for this "magical" service. It's helpful to a degree but not the end all answer.

Look at the car now, not just part of their history. Much like girls ahha.

[butterfingers]

i see "never been thrashed" a lot on advertisements as if its a selling point. what is their definition of thrashed?

it seems the majority of people still think WOT/shifting at redline is harmful to an engine or something.

1. your kidding yourself if your buying a performance car and expect the owner to have never hit WOT/thrashed/redlined.
2. its probably in better shape than someone who's always shifted at 2000 rpm all day everyday and/or short trips.

when dealing with this factor, regular maintenance would make a difference.

[DakDak]

i see "never been thrashed" a lot on advertisements as if its a selling point. what is their definition of thrashed?

it seems the majority of people still think WOT/shifting at redline is harmful to an engine or something.

1. your kidding yourself if your buying a performance car and expect the owner to have never hit WOT/thrashed/redlined.
2. its probably in better shape than someone who's always shifted at 2000 rpm all day everyday and/or short trips.

when dealing with this factor, regular maintenance would make a difference.

^ My definition of thrashed is to belt it day in and out and never adhere to service intervals, and when you do you spend the bare minimum, with shitty stuff.
I HAVE GIVEN ALL MY CARS a beating. But they always got the best care in return. 2 way street.

But somethings I never do; like flat changing, 7000 RPM launches, or hectic burnouts where you try to gas everyone out of their homes in the cul-de-sac with oxidized rubber.

[butterfingers]

^ My definition of thrashed is to belt it day in and out and never adhere to service intervals, and when you do you spend the bare minimum, with shitty stuff.
I HAVE GIVEN ALL MY CARS a beating. But they always got the best care in return. 2 way street.

But somethings I never do; like flat changing, 7000 RPM launches, or hectic burnouts where you try to gas everyone out of their homes in the cul-de-sac with oxidized rubber.

i would have the same definition of thrashing as you then. no hard launches or flat shifting.


otherwise the engine was designed and intended to be used in any part of the rpm range between idle and redline. unless it was a shit quality engine, I'm sure manufacturers don't build things that break when used and maintained as intended.

[AusS2000]

Service log books are "comforting" for people who don't know what to look at. You could send your car to the dealer to service every 500km and still have a pos on your hands if the owner bounces off the rev limiter constantly, clutch dumps at every set of lights or gutter bashes regularly while fish tailing their way to the dealer for this "magical" service. It's helpful to a degree but not the end all answer.

Look at the car now, not just part of their history. Much like girls ahha.
Be careful. I believe you can get into trouble for posting well thought out and informative posts on OzHonda. ;)

Seriously though, if my car is ever for sale (perhaps an estate sale?) it will come with a log book. And it will be totally pristine and never sullied by the pen of a dealer. I service my car myself and would never trust it to the trained apes at a Honda dealer.

[Hasbeen]

So true DakDak, there is no point in destroying perfectly good machinery.

There was a beautiful story about Fangio, when he was the best ever. A young thing from a ladies mag was interviewing him, & he was his usual courteous self.
However, when she asked, "Mr Fangio, how do you put your car into a slide"? His response was to step back, & state, "madam I spend my entire time on the track preventing slides, not initiating them" & terminate the interview.

When my son first got his licence he was showing signs of being impressed by some of his acquaintances doing burnouts in their old XD XF Falcons. I told him the Fangio story, then pointed out that although no Fangio, when I was setting Bathurst lap records, I spent my entire time preventing wheel spin, not initiating it.

He got the message, & became quite quick, while displaying plenty of mechanical sympathy. I do let him drive mt Triumphs & my S.

[AusS2000]

He'd be lousy in a drift competition though. ;)