water to air intercooling

[mooshie]

Hey guys looking for some opinions here, I have a '91 integra with a B18C and am currently looking to turbo one question thet lingers in my mind is- intercooling. now benefits would include, less intake tract length= better response, still cools well while idling or standstill, no huge shiny fridge in the front bumper attracting cops and, its too ****in hard to figure out how to route the piping into the front bar. on the other hand not as good because-more expensive however the piping is simpler=cheaper, more complex(if you are an idiot), heavier not that it makes much diff with the extra power, and no big shiny fridge in the front bumper attracting oohs and ahhs...! my only doubt is the cooling capacity, but since this type of intercooling is used on a lot of serious drag cars it must be ok right? any opinions people?
btw, i intend to run 6-8psi at first and hoping to bump that up with a rebuild in the future and i was thinking of the pwr barrel coolers which are about $1200 for the right size kit for my car which includes everything but piping. Thanks!

[LO_N_SXC]

I Know what you mean! I'm at the moment trying to get my mind made up if I should Turbo or not??? but if you do I would go for the Water to Air Due to many Reasons wich you have Already Explained, and like your self I also own a DA9 and if you ever get the chance to look between the front Bar and the Radiator it doesn't look like you have much room for a cooler anyways!!! So I would go for the Water to Air may cost more but the car will look much cleaner without a BIG Fridge Sticking out the front!!! :D

[Weq]

if u want 6-8psi, just get a small sidemount, similar to that run the on the stock nissians. much cheaper.

[LO_N_SXC]

But he is thinking of bumping the boost up later on, I rekon that if he has the Water to Air now he wont have to change stuff around, yet again it depends on how much $$$ Clolones he is willing to spend??????

So y dont you tell us our friend! How much are you willing to spend and how far do you see your self going with, such setup????? like are you going to build it with fully done internals and all????

[poid]

i would think for drag racing it would be fine, but for daily driving unless you have a way of cooling the water down it would heat soak quite quickly and then not do much in the way of cooling your intake charge.

If you size the FMIC pipes correctly and size the FMIC properly there wont be much lag anyway

[shecomb]

Im with Weq on that 1. Get a second hand supra,skyline,180 cooler and mount it somewhere off to the side. Will be good for 10psi easy. Save alot of expense there

[Ronin 09]

Plus an R33 / R34 skyline side mount can be had for about $100!

People have fun up to 14psi through these coolers and have been fine on the 2.5 nissan RB sixes :)

[urtwhistle]

hey alll check out the lextreme webby which im a member of because im actualy gonna join the very humble boosted toyota v8 bandwagon as sooon as i can get my loan.
there is a huge amount of knoledge on this website
http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2298

also the heatsoak problem with w2a is mainly solved buy using a very small water radiator in the front bar

[poid]

im actualy gonna join the very humble boosted toyota v8 bandwagon
lol you arent alone there, planning my project as well ;)

yeh i've thought about the small radiator as well, just not sure whether or not the cooling capacity will be the same as a good FMIC for normal applications. Most of the documentation i've seen suggests that the air to air will outperform in the situations we usually drive in. At speed or on a circuit, simply because it is difficult to keep the water as cool as an air to air cooler can get.

The data ARE suggested is about what i have seen as well, with around 22 degrees ambient i was seeing 31 degrees intake temps. I think thats pretty good considering the cooler i have isnt the best shaped out there, and this reading was after quite a bit of fanging around on boost.

Not sure the air to water would get that cool, even with the radiator keeping things cool. However on a drag car i would certainly consider the air to water, as you can use artificial means to keep ther water very, very cool for a single run.

[LO_N_SXC]

LOL might as wel attach some kind of FMF (Front Mounted Fridge) LOL just kiding!
I'm still with the water to air and yes the water radiator in the front bar sounds very good, I think there seem's to be some sort of equipment you can buy from the states but I forgot where I saw it??? I shall post with details as soon as I find out for yall.

[PhatSol]

I don't see why a large frount mount radiator can't dissapate as much energy as a large FMIC? And thermofans are always good at sorting out heat soak when you stop at the lights, etc....

[crx_16x]

i would think for drag racing it would be fine, but for daily driving unless you have a way of cooling the water down it would heat soak quite quickly and then not do much in the way of cooling your intake charge.

If you size the FMIC pipes correctly and size the FMIC properly there wont be much lag anyway
The PWR kit comes with a radiator thermofan etc.

http://www.pwr.com.au/pwr/index_new.html

[poid]

thing is, to me it makes more sense just to mount a FMIC if you are going to mount a radiator of that size anyway?

Dont get me wrong, i'm not against water to air and i think they have their place, but it just seems to be too much expense and complexity and not necessary for the street, if you get me.

[mooshie]

thanks for the replies guys after a bit more research and looking at quite a few personal experiences online this is now what i think. water to air seems to be better for the strip but as a daily driver thing it does not cool the air as efficiently. water can 'soak up' about 4 times more heat than air but the problem lies in getting rid of the heat again, a radiator in the front bar does this but still cant get the water back down to ambient temperature so it is warm water going back to the heat exchanger resulting in less temperature drop for the charge air. I am not real keen on the idea of a side mount cooler just cos it leaves no options in the future and remember that the cars mentioned were designed for japan an not hot australian conditions, i dont think that a sidemount would save much piping length to make it worthwhile may as well just go a frontmount. anyway might have to head out to a few workshops and get their opinions.

[mooshie]

if anyone has pics of intercooler pipe routing on their 2nd gen teg would be good if you could post them up too.

[urtwhistle]

um water is can move heat 14x better than air.

im looking for the pic i had with a pro w2a intercooler that basicly had a potential to keep the boosted 4l v8 just above ambient even at city traffic. the radiator wasnt that large more like 40x20x6 somthing close to that.

it is true tho a both types of intercoolers have there benifits. but a well desighned w2a will be beter then a huge fmic probly the same sort of weigh tho. the main problem with w2a is that there about 2x the price of fmic. have a read up on the lextreme webby i put a link to the guys on there have quite a bit of experience with turbo and supering the lexus v8's. and if they can keep them cool a honda shouldnt bee too hard either.

[Boost]

Are you sure about water being 14x? I think its only 4x.

The Subaru RS liberty uses a water to air cooler as stock. Water to air setup would be more expensive and heavier cause of all the addition exquipment needed to circulate the fluid in order to cool the air and cool the heated water.

Maybe have a A2A cooler with water spray?

Or something funky would be to re direct the air con vent from inside the car back into the engine, build a box for the A2A cooler and then feed the cold air con air into the box with an outlet so the hot air can then escape.. :P

[LO_N_SXC]

Here Bro check this link it has plenty of info on cooler piping and much much more!
http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/g2icturbo.html#Pipe

I Hope that Helps???