engine work

[Lukey]

hey guys. i couldnt really think of a proper thread title so that will have to do. anyways onto the questions.


so my headgasket is seeping oil down the block behind my headers, and im got a 300,000km service to do in about 12,000km so im gonna wait to do the headgasket til then if it doesnt get to bad.

on to my questions.

1. is it worth replacing all(?) gaskets and seals within the engine whilst ive got it all stripped apart (as i intend on inspecting everything whilst i got the head off)
2. is it worth doing any basic internal engine mods?
i dont have a full exhaust, intake, t/b, i/m so i dont think it would be worth it?

car is a dc4 w/ standard b18b2

umm thats all i can really think of atm, thanks all.

[dougie_504]

If the block is healthy I would recommend a VRS kit (all the head gaskets etc). Finish your I/H/E before you do anything internal IMO. As for building the B18B I don't really know what kind of potential it has for an N/A build. Ask Stevo what he thinks of his built B18A he'll probably advocate for it :)

[grifty]

just get a vrs kit, its comes with every gasket that connects to the head (except for valve stem seals, im not sure if im right), u gonna machiene the head aswell brah? dont forget new head bolts aswell, i would also change the valve stem seals if the engine has done 300k.

u going to be pulling the engine out? if so do the rings and bearings while ur at it.

what about throwing in a b18c2, u can get em cheap these days

[dougie_504]

Yeah as above, if the bottom end is healthy I'd leave it but if it's not I would suggest putting in a B18C2. Will cost you hardly much more, but it won't need to be engineered or anything.

[Lukey]

thanks dougie (andy?) not really looking for much more power, slightly higher revving would be good but doesnt really bother me. ive been speaking to steve a bit but will have to speak to him further.

so i take it there is quite a few different gaskets around the head and not just the main one between the head and the block.

what would machining the head achieve for me? and what sorta prep work do i need to do on the mating surfaces of the block & the head before putting in new gaskets?

ive been told my car blows a bit of blue smoke at times so vavle stem seals might me a good idea?

i was thinking of just leaving the block in the engine bay and pulling everything else off. or should i just pull it all out?

not interested in another engine as i dont want to throw out a perfecting good engine that takes a flogging every day.

rings? as in around the piston? and where abouts are said bearings?

[brybry]

Hey Luke, its bry from stanceworks :>

Machining head will ensure head/block surfaces are both flat so that when you slap new headgasket on it so it actually seals, otherwise it's a waste of time - this is extremely important if you are already experiencing symptoms of a blown head gasket such as chronic overheating which often results in a warped head or block. Machining/Shaving head's are 2 different things that get confused alot, shaving head will raise comp ratio, like how a thicker headgasket will lower comp ratio. Headstuds are throwaway item's and will need to be replaced with new ones via ARP or Honda.

Blue smoke will be either valve stems or piston rings (yes, around the piston) or a combination of both. Google for a few tests on how to rule one or the other out.

Main bearings live between crank and block

Con rod bearings live between big end of con rod and crank

Bearings are made of softer metal then crank/block/con rods so as to not wear them out instead - everything pretty much floats between a oil filled gap of anywhere between 0.001 and 0.0015mm in most cases.

For a motor approaching 300km, there's unfortunately little point in spending much time/effort on it as you will forever be fixing failures because these motors were never intended for such high KM's..you will be better off in the long term (or even short term depending on condition of things) by throwing in a lower km motor thats in known good condition :)

[Lukey]

hey man.

so machining the head is a must, do i need to do any prep work to the surface on the block? like give it a quick whirl with emery tape? only symptoms im getting is my idle is starting to hunt a tiny bit, and obviously losing a bit of oil. and headstuds are a must, ok. are there any other gaskets & seals i should replace whilst i got most the engine apart?

will have to look into those tests.

is there any easy way to see if the bearings are shot and need replacement or not? and are they easy to replace?

ahk so wont worry about any internals. thanks all!

and if the teg is ever gonna receive any form of engine swap it would be a j32 :)

[dougie_504]

Just go full VRS kit. I did one when I built my head. Cost me $600 but it's a very good quality one though. ARP head studs are a bargain.

[GSi_PSi]

You can pick up a low km's B18B2 without gearbox with 3 month warranty for around 250 bucks at the wreckers here
if you dont want headaches just swap it out, otherwise if your intent on freshening it up go ahead.
OR you can be different or go for a non-vtec B20B8 from a crv (can pick up for 350-500) , wack it straight in, will have loads better torque downlow, with a
good short ratio gearbox like B16a will be quite a nice package.

[androo]

Yeh I was just about to suggest - B18B2's are heaps cheap. I'd say - buy another one and get that one freshened up with new gaskets (since it's already out of the car - but not neccessary. Inspect the engine to see how the gaskets are - if they aren't leaking, etc. then you can wack it straight in. I'd change it just for peace of mind). Drop it in and you'll have a really cheap, low km, somewhat fresh engine compared to your current one getting new gaskets.

To GSi_PSi, you make it sound so easy! What else is involved?

[TODA AU]

What else is involved?

B18 intake manifold must be re-used for bonnet clearance.
Change rocker cover too so top crank case breather lines line up.
Use B18 fuel rail, Injectors & engine loom.
Use adjustable fuel reg or Hondata.

[anjin]

I bought a complete gsr gasket kit - top and bottom - and headbolts for 120 us. Postage was high - 80 plus, but it arrived in four days.
It has everything, including valve stem seals, oil pickup seals, thermostat rubber seal, etc.

Look on ebay.

[AE092]

I had pretty much the same issue only my engine was rebuilt approx 50,000 or so before the head gasket suddenly broke. Note that this applies to a Toyota 4AGE engine.

Anyway, I bought a replacement head and had it bead blasted, ports cleaned up and valvetrain refitted and clearances check. I also had mild cams installed and the head machined. The head was 300, head work 600, cams 50 and a VRS kit was $260. You'll need/want a head gasket if you're going to replace the valve stem seals and other gaskets along the way.

The head was then fitted with strengthened reinforced head bolts and greddy Timing belt and TODA 1.0mm head gasket for slightly raised compression. I also replaced all the other ancillary belts and replaced the water pump with a new GMB item. T/Belt and bolts cost $260, Head gasket $90, belts approx $110 and w/pump was $60. Labour to fit head and all other parts was about $780.

So I guess you have to weigh up your options on which route you want to go, essentially you could save up abit more and replace the entire engine but I felt mine was in rather good condition and did not really need anymore power as is. Hope that helps

[Riced_Civic]

ahh, didnt know u had cams trung.

[AE092]

The cams are from the earlier 'Big Port' 4AGE with 240 degree duration and 7.56mm lift, stock is 232 and 7.1mm - only cost me $50 inc. regrind and postage haha

[GSi_PSi]

shoulda just wacked in a low kms 20valve and called it a day,

[AE092]

20 valves, especially the black top series are known for conrod failure. They took out some weight and ultimately strength in the rods to make it rev harder, raised compression makes for an explosive outcome at the end of the day. If I really wanted power, I'd go 4AGZE or GTE but I don't need power to track race.

[dougie_504]

4AGE is an awesome motor anyway.

Isn't it like 86kw standard? Nice for a little DOHC...

[mugen_ctr]

thats the old 4age... the newer ones from ae101 an especially from ae111, make much more power, same as b16, around 121kw, an id say far more better engine... 5 valves per cylinder, ITB's, 6 speed short ratio gear box... cant beat that combo, macthed with a good chassis, u have toyotas answer to the ek9

[u mad?]

the engines an unreliable pos. plus its already got itb and 20v, so theres not really too much more improvement to be made, and theres no where near as much aftermarket support as you'd get for a b16a/b


i agree 4agze is pretty hectic though.

[dougie_504]

How much does one of these 121kw 4AGE's cost?

[mugen_ctr]

Last time i checked... around mid 2008

front cut of ae111 is around 3 - 5k

Engine alone was still worth around 1.5 - 3k

Though prices woulda changed by now

The older super charger 4agze i think was around 2 - 4k or might of been more

[GSi_PSi]

look on gumtree , theres people selling 20valve engine with the car (corolla whatever shape) for around 500-2k

but +1 on being unrealiable and seeing every second rolla blowing shit load of blacksmoke

my mates used to be rolla freaks, getting into to the honda engine swap scene now they dont look back,

[dougie_504]

Interesting, so cheap. But I love my Hondas, even more so because I know them...

[AE092]

The one's selling cheap on firesport/gumtree/carsales are mainly the flogged out ones. People purchase and thrash them and once they start to deteriorate then buyers become sellers. It's really not worth fixing it unless you're ready to spend some coin and face a lost at the end of the day. Everyone's always on about power but how much of it can you use anyway?