Clutch not engaging

[dougie_504]

Have searched but can't seem to find this specific problem.


Last night:

I went to start my car and I couldn't get it into 1st gear, car on, clutch in, from neutral.

Turned car off, put in 1st, started with clutch in and the car lurches forwards.

So not engaging properly?

Car on, in neutral, pumped the clutch a few times before depressing it and it finally goes into gear and then drives normally all the way home from work.


This morning:

Same problem, can't get it into 1st from neutral with car on and clutch in.

Still lurching when starting car in 1st gear, clutch in.

Car on, pumped the clutch several times until it finally engages (took many more pumps this morning) and then again it drives normally.


- No wierd noises
- Pedal feels normal, heavy and engaging low
- Gear shifts feel normal, no strange crunching or reluctance to shift

I had a new OEM clutch installed in October 2009 so it's not even 18 months old.
Before then I hadn't changed tranny fluid since mid 2008 and was planning to do it soon. Could this be the issue?

Just seems strange that it won't engage at all but then drives normally and feels perfect...


Thanks guys

[ECU-MAN]

your clutch master cylinder is leaking, causing loss of fluid in the resivor create an air pocket inthe hydraulic line.

you need to rebleed the cluch system to get going properly again, then consider replacing your clutch master cylinder.

you can confirm the failure of the Clutch MC by looking above the clutch pedal with a torch, you will see the end of it and it will be damp with fluid.

[dorikin]

Yep it definitely sounds like a problem with the hydraulic system. Check your clutch fluid reservoir to see if you're low on fluid first, if yes look from reservoir to master to slave for leaks.

But as above most likely clutch master is leaking.

[Vvvtec]

Yeah, I've been keeping an eye on my clutch fluid, and the more it is going down (I have this problem too) the more the feel of the gears/clutch is changing.

I heard a new master cylinder is over $200 from Honda?

[dougie_504]

Thanks guys you're all real stars. I'll just try to drive it tonight and tomorrow to work, but tomorrow arvo I should have a chance to look at things. Otherwise I'll just drive my EF8 :D

[DLO01]

What the guys said above. Also 'clutch in' as pushing the clutch pedal is disengaging the clutch, not engaging the clutch.

[Mikecivic78]

Yeah, I've been keeping an eye on my clutch fluid, and the more it is going down (I have this problem too) the more the feel of the gears/clutch is changing.

I heard a new master cylinder is over $200 from Honda?

GEt down and look behind the clutch pedal. If there is gunk there, then you master is leaking. I had to do the same Master cylinder DIY on my EM1.

[Mikecivic78]

Hope you can get it fixed Dougie :)

[dougie_504]

Well I wanted to try to get it home but when I went to drive it last night the pedal has lost all pressure and just felt slack. MC is empty but I haven't had a chance to get underneath and look.

Unforunately I don't have a day off until Wednesday so it looks like the EF8 is getting a daily run for a few days...

I'll see if I can find a DIY on how to change it or maybe try to find a workshop manual to download.


Also do you just use brake fluid or any hydraulic fluid to fill the MC? IE DOT3 or DOT4

[mocchi]

yea brake fluid. i think its dot 4.
swapping cmc is quite easy, just gotta make some room so you can lie down. (like remove driver seat).

[dougie_504]

Thanks man, but unfortunately I just don't really know anything about the MC, don't even know where it is/what it looks like. I thought it would be in the bay near the re-fill bottle.

So it's a cylinder thing near the clutch pedal? Probably a good thing to take my driver seat out anyway because I want to disconnect that wire that makes the beeping sound when you put your ignition on without the seatbelt done up :D

[dorikin]

its on the opposite side of the clutch pedal in the engine bay

use "honda" brake fluid

[dougie_504]

its on the opposite side of the clutch pedal in the engine bay

use "honda" brake fluid


Ah, so opposite as in down on the firewall or around that area, on the driver's side? Or do you mean opposite as in on the passenger side? Ta

[Lukey]

cmc should be next to the bmc closer to the fender

[dorikin]

clutch master is connected to the clutch pedal
so if you go into the engine bay and figure out where your clutch pedal is you'll see it.

[dougie_504]

Okay thanks for clearing that up guys. I'll have to try to figure it out and fix it in the street outside my GF's place :(

I'll see if I can grab one from the wrecker too, pretty sure they have a Civic there for parting...

[mocchi]

manual for you bruh get it jiggy.
also need 8mm spanner for bleeding clutch on the slave cylinder nut.

http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/breadbaconncheese/EG%20DIY%20and%20Manuals/cmc1.png

http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/breadbaconncheese/EG%20DIY%20and%20Manuals/cmc2.png

http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/breadbaconncheese/EG%20DIY%20and%20Manuals/cmc3.png

[Lukey]

try topping it up first, pump pedal, top up and pump pedal til its good.

this should get you along while you look for a cmc

[dc2r-0636]

when i changed mine i was going to do a DIY but you need special type of pliers for one of the parts and i cbf with it.

so bought the parts from honda and got them to change em over. i got clutch master cylinder AND slave done at once. all up including labour came to the $300 mark

[Vvvtec]

GEt down and look behind the clutch pedal. If there is gunk there, then you master is leaking. I had to do the same Master cylinder DIY on my EM1.

Yeah, it started a couple months ago, I'm losing pedal feel. And yup, the other day I had a bit of a look, and surely enough there is gunk down behind carpet and on the firewall.

Was it an easy DIY? What did parts end up costing you?

[Mikecivic78]

Was it an easy DIY? What did parts end up costing you?

Very doeable DIY. 1.5 hour job.

All OEM Honda - clutch master was 88.95, and 8 bucks for brake fluid.

[dougie_504]

Thanks guys. Will rep points when I get home (at work)

[simmy]

clutch master cylinder from honda is 90 bucks

[dougie_504]

Yeah, might not even be worth the effort of driving to a wrecker, removing it, paying for it and wondering if it will sh!t itself again.

[Mikecivic78]

yea man, 100 bucks for new master and fluid is peanuts.

[dougie_504]

Here's the culprit! So ECU-MAN's and everybody else's suspicions were correct, the clutch master cylinder is leaking behind my clutch pedal. Poor photo quality but you can see the glistening of the brake fluid from my phone's flash, as well as some gunk built up around the components above it in the picture.
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k158/dougie_504/230120111872.jpg


I decided to take Lukey's advice and top up the system with some spare fluid I found in my dad's shed. It's DOT3. At about 12:30am this morning outside my GF's house I got her to pump the clutch repeatedly while I topped it up. I could clearly see the air coming out of the system. I was surprised by how little fluid it took. All in all I'm glad it's driving again and I'll keep the fluid in the car with me for now.
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k158/dougie_504/23012011190.jpg


I was so happy with my baby that I decided to give her a wash.
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k158/dougie_504/23012011186.jpg
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k158/dougie_504/23012011194.jpg


For those of you wondering this is where you can find your CMC.
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k158/dougie_504/23012011196.jpg
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k158/dougie_504/23012011195.jpg


Today my dad and I went to Pick-A-Part to grab the CMC off an EG4 wreck that I had previously visited for some nuts and bolts. I love going to Pick-A-Part because even though you have to spend time taking it apart at least you can learn how to do it in a 'safe environment' IE your car won't get damaged if you stuff up the first time. It cost me $7 and since I can't get to a Honda dealer until Thursday I think it'll do the job. Took about 30-45mins to get out - the cotter pin was a b!tch.
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k158/dougie_504/23012011192.jpg


So things are looking good except that I accidentally scratched my door with my tool box (the second mark from the bottom up, small I know...). It's supposed to be my daily but I still get shattered every time something goes wrong and I'll probably feel down about it for the rest of the day...
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k158/dougie_504/23012011193.jpg

[dougie_504]

Oh, and once again a huge thanks to everybody who provided information and advice :)

[Lukey]

does your eg run both clutch and brakes off the one master cylinder? that looks like the brake master cylinder to me..?

in this photo of my engine bay the cmc is the small one on the left and bmc is the big one on the right,

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/4048/p1190031.jpg

[dougie_504]

No they run off separate just like your's. I'm not referring to the brake fluid reservoir, but clutch fluid one isn't in the picture lol.

[Lukey]

ahhhh lol

[Woozeh]

yeah i had the same problem with my car, got a new clutch master cyclinder for about 90 (oem one) installed and bled the lines works fine now. it was leaking from inside the car behind the clutch.

[steeeven]

i had the same problem with my teg, It won't go in gear, turning off put it in gear so on. So i changed the clutch master cylinder got a new one and still have that problem turned out it was my pressure plate was broken when i was replacing the clutch

[dougie_504]

I'm hoping to fix mine this afternoon after work. Will need to adjust the pedal too because now there's this very light 'dead space' at the top before you feel any resistance. Can't wait to have it fixed...

[dorikin]

Let me know how you go with the pedal adjustment... I have the same dead space on my pedal but haven't had a chance to take a look yet

[markismaximus]

ahhh shoulda just converterd it to cable operated like the CRX dougie.... lolol :p

but seriously, how often do you hear of people needing to replace the gearbox cable in ED/EF/DAs?

[dougie_504]

ahhh shoulda just converterd it to cable operated like the CRX dougie.... lolol :p

but seriously, how often do you hear of people needing to replace the gearbox cable in ED/EF/DAs?


Exactly. Never. Though sometimes I hear people compaining that their GBox feels like crap 'because it's cable not hydro' but I don't think they know what they're on about...


Just about to go do it now. So tired though from work lol. But it's driving like crap. Have to pump it 50-100 times to get the air out before I drive, and even then it's a little crunchy until it's warm and got some pressure...

[Lukey]

my cmc has been leaking at my pedal for a couple of years now, if i keep an eye on it and make sure its topped up i dont have any problems lol

[markismaximus]

my cmc has been leaking at my pedal for a couple of years now, if i keep an eye on it and make sure its topped up i dont have any problems lol

wheres all that fluid leaking to though? eating away all the paint and carpet underneath where its dripping!!!

[dougie_504]

All done. Was a bit of a PITA - getting to that damned top nut from underneath (when you're lying on your back looking up), that clumsy cotter pin, getting the BMC lines out of the way to pull the old one out, fixing the new one in a fashion so that it won't push itself back into the bay so you can't do up the nuts on the threads, bending a new cotter pin over the other little pin...

...and omg I reckon I was pumping that empty clutch pedal for half an hour? Ended up kneeling on the ground and laying my head on the seat while I pushed/pulled the pedal probably over a thousand times...


Otherwise it wasn't too bad considering it cost me $7. Works fine now. I had to take the seat and steering wheel out like mocchi said (I'm 6'1 and 105kg so not enough space) but it was a good opportunity to disconnect that cursed wire that makes your sh!t beep because your ignition is on and your seat belt isn't in! Now I can prime my fuel lines while I do up my belt :D



Thanks everybody for your help. You all deserve a second +1 IMO but I have to 'spread the love' first :)

[Vvvtec]

Glad to hear it's all fixed, and you now know your CMC inside out :D Good work man

[dougie_504]

Ok, little bit more of a problem.

Have driven the car 4 times since I fixed the CMC and what I've found the last 3 times is that my pedal has lost some pressure again and won't disengage.

Pumping the pedal fixes it, like previously. CMC does not appear to be leaking. Fluid staying at 'Max' consistently.


Anybody have any ideas? Or maybe will this smooth out after a while?

Ta

[dorikin]

did you bleed it properly?

[90LAN]

change your clutch rubber hose too while your doing this

[dougie_504]

did you bleed it properly?

I hope so. Just filled up the CMC reservoir (from empty) and pumped and pumped the clutch until it was firm and disengaging properly, then made sure the reservoir was at the MAX level. Is this right?



change your clutch rubber hose too while your doing this

Which one is this? The one from the CMC reservoir to the side of the CMC?

[ECU-MAN]

you still have to bleed the air from the system

[dorikin]

I hope so. Just filled up the CMC reservoir (from empty) and pumped and pumped the clutch until it was firm and disengaging properly, then made sure the reservoir was at the MAX level. Is this right?

Nah that's not bleeding it. Thats just topping it up.

Once air gets into the reservoir or lines you need to bleed the system to get rid of the air pockets. Top it up full, pump the pedal few times then loosen the nipple on the slave cylinder. You'll see air bubbles and abit of fluid come out. Tighten the nipple back up and repeat this process until theres no more air bubbles.

Easier to do it with 2 people, one inside pumping the pedal, one outside at the slave cylinder

[mocchi]

so you dont waste your fluid:

http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/breadbaconncheese/P1010772.jpg

but on the CMC.
some say dont need to bench bleed cmc, but i do it because i have the hose and its easy (1 person).

[dougie_504]

Can't say I'm fussed about wasting a few ML of brake fluid, but thanks I'll give it a go. I'm a bit of a noob TBH but I have no problem trying something new.

Popping over to my mechanic's place to say hi in a moment so I might just ask him to show me while I'm there anyway.


Otherwise...nipple on the SMC. Thanks guys.

[90LAN]

I hope so. Just filled up the CMC reservoir (from empty) and pumped and pumped the clutch until it was firm and disengaging properly, then made sure the reservoir was at the MAX level. Is this right?




Which one is this? The one from the CMC reservoir to the side of the CMC?

in front off your gearbox to your chasis rail

[Bludger]

so you dont waste your fluid:

http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/breadbaconncheese/P1010772.jpg

but on the CMC.
some say dont need to bench bleed cmc, but i do it because i have the hose and its easy (1 person).how to bench bleed a BMC & CMC????

[Lukey]

wheres all that fluid leaking to though? eating away all the paint and carpet underneath where its dripping!!!

on the floor, i dont run any carpet so thats fine but it was eating into some of the rubber heat shield under the pedals but ive since pulled that out to, it seems to be dripping onto the sound deadener on the floor so as to not eat into the paintwork and metal. lol

[mocchi]

how to bench bleed a BMC & CMC????

when i did auto-manual conversion, i had to use a second hand cmc (dried up i think) and also swapped to a 1" bmc (dry too). definition of dry: nothing comes out when you pump it.
all i did was cut up some hard line from wreckers, plug it up to a clear hose so i can see fluid and thats it.

connect them like in the pic so bubbles goes to reservoir when you pump it and simply bubble up to atmosphere.

i had to mount them on the car, not literally 'bench' bleed because i need that torque multiplier on the pedal.
im just too weak to pump it by hand.

is that what you wanna know?

[dougie_504]

Thanks guys. When I dropped in to say hi to my mechy he pointed out the SMC nipple and just said to loosen it so it bleeds and re-fill the reservoir like 2-3 times once it's gone down. Did it 3 top-ups worth. Will see how the pedal feels tomorrow as the problem I was having was when I'd left the car for a while.

He also said the air would eventually work its way out with regular driving?

Anyway, wait a see for now :)

[Bludger]

If you bleed it properly then you should have no problems Andy.

2 ppl.
loosen nipple and step on the clutch & hold.
tighten nipple and let go of clutch.
Repeat till steady stream of brake fluid comes out.
just like bleeding your brakes.

Do it right and you will have no trouble.
No need to wait till a few days later to see, it should be right.

[dougie_504]

Ta, will attend to it. Wanna give me advice on the RSB thread now? lol

And what the hell are you doing up? o.o

[ECU-MAN]

Thanks guys. When I dropped in to say hi to my mechy he pointed out the SMC nipple and just said to loosen it so it bleeds and re-fill the reservoir like 2-3 times once it's gone down. Did it 3 top-ups worth. Will see how the pedal feels tomorrow as the problem I was having was when I'd left the car for a while.

He also said the air would eventually work its way out with regular driving?

Anyway, wait a see for now :)


that is not the proper way to bleed the system. you will not get rid of all the air from the system unless you bleed it properly

[dougie_504]

Yeah I'll bleed it properly as Bao said tomorrow morning, thanks mate.