AUDM vs USDM K24 in Euro

[Fredoops]

I was looking into upgrading from CL9 to a CU2 today... I was research for the possibility for some USDM Acura front grill/bumpers to be put in (cause I just cant get over the looks of the CU2... what the hell were they thinking when they deisgned that thing...)

Anyway, I found something interesting for the USDM vs AUDM K24Z engine... Everything else seems identical... except...

1. Power: USDM K24Z produces 147kw instead of 148kw on the AUDM K24Z
2. Fuel: USDM K24Z recommands 91RON (can even use mid-grade 89 RON), while AUDM is 95RON min.
3. Fuel consumption: USDM 10.69/7.59Liter per 100km (City/Highway) | AUDM 12.3/6.9 Litre per 100km (Urban/Extra Urban) *

*There is differences between EPA and ADR on fuel consumption, EPA (USA) tend to calculate less for "City" compared to ADR "Urban" and EPA (USA) tend to calculate higher consumption for Highway compared to ADR "Extra-Urban", the difference is +/- 10% it appears over all.

So.... I can jsut imagine how much money I can save with the 91 Ron... LOL.

[furythree]

just buy a civic if you want fuel economy and since u hate the cu2 so much lol

[Rudy]

I'ts different units. They use AKI. 91 AKI = 95RON. 87 AKI = 91 RON. The fuel econ figures are prob due to variations in the testing method between countries.

[Fredoops]

just buy a civic if you want fuel economy and since u hate the cu2 so much lol

It;s just the front grill, something about it just dont work for me. the acura with the chome mustache and more rounded foglight spacings is much better imo.

[Kwangstuhhh]

just buy a civic if you want fuel economy and since u hate the cu2 so much lol
+1 to that.

It;s just the front grill, something about it just dont work for me. the acura with the chome mustache and more rounded foglight spacings is much better imo.
No need to hate =P But have you considered looking at the optional Modulo Sports grill/Mugen grill for the CU2?

As for fuel consumption think about this:
Full tank of 91RON into my GD3 (1.5L) - not sure on the Fuel tank capacity: ~$45 -> 400-500km Highway and City driving -> Averaging about 7.0L/100km (Auto)
Full tank 95RON into my CU2 (2.4L) - 65L: ~$90-100 -> 800-900km Highway and City driving -> Averaging about 10.0L/100km (Auto)

So if you think about it you don't save much more with 91RON and a much less powerful engine...95RON is "better" for the engine in the long run anyways. Having said that, I've also read that 95RON also increases the fuel consumption of the car. That's my point of view of it anyways :)

[Fredoops]

No need to hate =P But have you considered looking at the optional Modulo Sports grill/Mugen grill for the CU2?

I saw the face lift coming out, the problem seems to be the sharp edges with the facelift didn't seem to address, so many of them make the styling a bit fuzzy.

I FINALLY found what exactly the front end is bugging me... it is the side and shape of the grill... Gotta go for work, i'll explain it later with pics when i came back.

[aaronng]

As for fuel consumption think about this:
Full tank of 91RON into my GD3 (1.5L) - not sure on the Fuel tank capacity: ~$45 -> 400-500km Highway and City driving -> Averaging about 7.0L/100km (Auto)
Full tank 95RON into my CU2 (2.4L) - 65L: ~$90-100 -> 800-900km Highway and City driving -> Averaging about 10.0L/100km (Auto)

So if you think about it you don't save much more with 91RON and a much less powerful engine...95RON is "better" for the engine in the long run anyways. Having said that, I've also read that 95RON also increases the fuel consumption of the car. That's my point of view of it anyways :)
If you drive 20,000km a year, then that is 1400L of 91RON or $1820 if the price was $1.30 per litre. In comparison, the CU2 would use 2000L of fuel for the same distance and if it was $1.45 per litre for 95RON, then it will cost $2900. So the difference in a year is $1080. For some people that is a lot of money, and for others, that is nothing compared to their ciggie cost (4 packs per week, $15 a pack = $3120).

[antony]

The funny thing is that the only thing criticised on the Acura TSX is the grille...everyone in the US seems to prefer our Euros front.

You can NEVER keep everyone happy,personally I like all the chrome and bling.

[CU2 Euro 09]

The funny thing is that the only thing criticised on the Acura TSX is the grille...everyone in the US seems to prefer our Euros front.

You can NEVER keep everyone happy,personally I like all the chrome and bling.

:thumbsup: +1

[Fredoops]

OK, Back from work.... I dont have an art degree so explaning the issue with the front grill might take a while... so bare with me.

Now Look at the picture below, i've made a few markings.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/silverster/CU2_STOCK.jpg

Notice the RED line running below the head lights to the centre of the car, you see the grill is bascially a continuation of the line below the light perfectly, this i believe is honda trying to get this whole "angular" styling working.

However. the headlight was not a full flat shape, but the edge of the headlight towards the grill has a "kink" in it. See the area indicated by the BLUE lines. it effectively made the headlight very narrow on the inner edge, so you have part of the headlight connecting with the grill and the bottom which isnt connected with the grill. The flow of the angular shape is borken, it's made worse by the size of the grill, which is you see the black line's i've pointed out, it's full 1/2 of the height of the front bumper. That wouldn't be bad if the proportion is good.... but it isnt. the headlights for the CU2 are thin and narrow, the grill is huge and bulky. a stark contrast, and not a good contrast at that.

Lots of cars have large sized front grills, like Mercedes, but they have large headlights to complement it, this one doesnt. This is like someone with a very narrow eye but a HUGE nose, and a shinny nose at that.

[furythree]

the grill aint that big in real life
just replace it if u dont like it, u got mugen or modulo or DIY russian style if you want. (cut off the centre bar) plenty of choices

[praja6]

HI guys,

How about this look, i just modify the picture in paint with red line as the grill and blue line as the headlinghts? Does this look propotion? Why Honda can't make like this way of nice looking?

[Fredoops]

HI guys,

How about this look, i just modify the picture in paint with red line as the grill and blue line as the headlinghts? Does this look propotion? Why Honda can't make like this way of nice looking?

Then they'll either look like Mercedes or Lexus LS series sadly

The guys at mugen know their stuff, look their kit, note how the grill follows the 'kink' of the headlight
http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/a472/maximus_pan/TSXclub%20TOTM/IMG_6613-2.jpg

[praja6]

If you look both Lexus and Merc, pretty much same shape.. Why can't honda do same way of design like that?

[denot]

the acura with the chome mustache and more rounded foglight spacings is much better imo.

Are you on drugs when you said this? :zip:

The one that attract me most when I purchase a CU2 is the front grill and the sporty looks. CL9 is like an oldie-person car for me (er... yeah same as my current car :( ). But to think that there's a person out there that says TSX grille is better...

[CU2 Euro 09]

OK, Back from work.... I dont have an art degree so explaning the issue with the front grill might take a while... so bare with me.

Now Look at the picture below, i've made a few markings.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/silverster/CU2_STOCK.jpg

Notice the RED line running below the head lights to the centre of the car, you see the grill is bascially a continuation of the line below the light perfectly, this i believe is honda trying to get this whole "angular" styling working.

However. the headlight was not a full flat shape, but the edge of the headlight towards the grill has a "kink" in it. See the area indicated by the BLUE lines. it effectively made the headlight very narrow on the inner edge, so you have part of the headlight connecting with the grill and the bottom which isnt connected with the grill. The flow of the angular shape is borken, it's made worse by the size of the grill, which is you see the black line's i've pointed out, it's full 1/2 of the height of the front bumper. That wouldn't be bad if the proportion is good.... but it isnt. the headlights for the CU2 are thin and narrow, the grill is huge and bulky. a stark contrast, and not a good contrast at that.

Lots of cars have large sized front grills, like Mercedes, but they have large headlights to complement it, this one doesnt. This is like someone with a very narrow eye but a HUGE nose, and a shinny nose at that.

Looking at the modulo grill, the lines fit this logic.

[Kwangstuhhh]

If you drive 20,000km a year, then that is 1400L of 91RON or $1820 if the price was $1.30 per litre. In comparison, the CU2 would use 2000L of fuel for the same distance and if it was $1.45 per litre for 95RON, then it will cost $2900. So the difference in a year is $1080. For some people that is a lot of money, and for others, that is nothing compared to their ciggie cost (4 packs per week, $15 a pack = $3120).
Good point +1! lol

But I guess the thing people have to consider is -> you're paying extra for more luxury and power...if you're willing to pay an extra 5-10kfor that then you "should" be willing to fork out the extra $1k a year :P


Are you on drugs when you said this? :zip:

The one that attract me most when I purchase a CU2 is the front grill and the sporty looks. CL9 is like an oldie-person car for me (er... yeah same as my current car :( ). But to think that there's a person out there that says TSX grille is better...
i LOL'd...I concur...the TSX grille gives me the shivers just looking at it =\

[CU2CU2]

My personal taste = Full Module Kit

[Tekkenforce]

^ nuf said

lol

[antony]

tHE HEADLIGHTS make the Euro look unique,and BETTER than all of its competitors.

Also much sportier than the CL9.

I hope Honda does NOT change that,it will then look like the front of every other mid sized sedan in the world...

[Fredoops]

Are you on drugs when you said this? :zip:

The one that attract me most when I purchase a CU2 is the front grill and the sporty looks. CL9 is like an oldie-person car for me (er... yeah same as my current car :( ). But to think that there's a person out there that says TSX grille is better...

Each to their own mate.
The chrome bit breaks the grill up. so it appears narrower, an the chrome bit can be easily replaced with other things (like body color panel/CF/Aluminum etc)


Good point +1! lol

But I guess the thing people have to consider is -> you're paying extra for more luxury and power...if you're willing to pay an extra 5-10kfor that then you "should" be willing to fork out the extra $1k a year :P
If that is true then no one would be buying i-DTEC Accords in Europe (which outsells petrol 4 to 1 or something), and Honda wouldn't be selling accords in Europe with a 2.0 Liter as standard

The point I was trying to make.... *If* the USDM TSX can match the AUDM Accord in power/output while using 91 RON... Then why dont we get the same spec, was it a marketing ploy?
Sorry to sound like a skeptic but Honda Australia's been ripping consumers off on parts etc for the last X number of years they've been here.

Besides.... $1000 is like... a crap load of carbon offsets.

Considering the US uses AKI instead of RON I suspect it's a moot point.

[Type R Positive]

The point I was trying to make.... *If* the USDM TSX can match the AUDM Accord in power/output while using 91 RON... Then why dont we get the same spec, was it a marketing ploy?
Sorry to sound like a skeptic but Honda Australia's been ripping consumers off on parts etc for the last X number of years they've been here.

Besides.... $1000 is like... a crap load of carbon offsets.

Considering the US uses AKI instead of RON I suspect it's a moot point.
same engine same fuel mate. The last CL9 in the states had a different engine than ours, well the head with bigger valves anyway. The output was the same as the CU2's is now. They were crying that their CU2 had no power increase lol!

[denot]

Another point that I remember about the minimum 95 RON for our Euro is when the "pinging" issue just out. Honda Oz (or Jap) quickly assumes that its caused by our "bad quality" 95 RON and ask us (who complaints to the dealer) to refuel with 98 RON...

If TSX can use 91, then perhaps people who build TSX is "smarter" than the one who built CU2?

[praja6]

If TSX can use 91, then perhaps people who build TSX is "smarter" than the one who built CU2?[/QUOTE]

Denny, I thought our Accord Euro CU2 and Acura TSX is excatly the same identical body and engine, except the badge is different.. I do believe they both build in same factory and badge is different..

May be the Ron 91 petrol in USa is equal to our RON 98 fuel in Australia?

[Fredoops]

4
Another point that I remember about the minimum 95 RON for our Euro is when the "pinging" issue just out. Honda Oz (or Jap) quickly assumes that its caused by our "bad quality" 95 RON and ask us (who complaints to the dealer) to refuel with 98 RON...
If TSX can use 91, then perhaps people who build TSX is "smarter" than the one who built CU2?

Typical Honda, blame the users. Considering the WHOLE WORLD had the issue back in 09.... Then almost 2 yrs later they decide to do a recall...

PS: it is known that Acura TSX can use 87AKI octane rating fuel (considering that is mid-grade in the states) which translates to 9 RON (some people claimed it helped with the 'pinging' back in 2009...), since USA don't really get 98 RON fuel. 95RON/91 AKI is about as high as you go Premium wise. So *IF* the engines are indeed identical between Acura and Honda Euro... then you "should" be able to use our 91RON petrol on our Euros.

This leads me to another point, assuming the engine tune between TSX and Euro are the same. then We in Australia should get no benefit whatsoever from 98ron Premium fuel, since the engine is only tuned for 95? So When HONDA AUSTRALIA told us to use 98 instead of 95... didnt they actually made the matter worse?


If TSX can use 91, then perhaps people who build TSX is "smarter" than the one who built CU2?

Denny, I thought our Accord Euro CU2 and Acura TSX is excatly the same identical body and engine, except the badge is different.. I do believe they both build in same factory and badge is different..

May be the Ron 91 petrol in USa is equal to our RON 98 fuel in Australia?
US uses AKI rating. so their 91 AKI Octane = 95 RON Australia

I think it will be VERY interesting when (not an IF since he's from the Corn-Ethanol Heart Land) Obama Mandates Ethanol (E15 or E20 or something) across the states..

[Type R Positive]

Another point that I remember about the minimum 95 RON for our Euro is when the "pinging" issue just out. Honda Oz (or Jap) quickly assumes that its caused by our "bad quality" 95 RON and ask us (who complaints to the dealer) to refuel with 98 RON...

If TSX can use 91, then perhaps people who build TSX is "smarter" than the one who built CU2?
1: it's the same car, different interior trim.
2: our fuel is shit. Their 91 = our 95 when measured in our way. They use Ron + mon / 2. We just use Ron. Mon is always lower than Ron.
We don't need 98 octane fuel, we just need better quality fuel. Our 98 is better quality than our 95. My car runs fine on 95 by the way...

[Fredoops]

1: it's the same car, different interior trim.
2: our fuel is shit. Their 91 = our 95 when measured in our way. They use Ron + mon / 2. We just use Ron. Mon is always lower than Ron.
We don't need 98 octane fuel, we just need better quality fuel. Our 98 is better quality than our 95. My car runs fine on 95 by the way...

Funny you said that, I was looking the other day and apparently a good bulk of Australian fuel is refined in Singapore... that's a like a week of transport away.
I heard that refined petrol is like milk, it goes off with time... by the time we get it in the pumps, it's like a month old aint it?

[praja6]

1: it's the same car, different interior trim.
2: our fuel is shit. Their 91 = our 95 when measured in our way. They use Ron + mon / 2. We just use Ron. Mon is always lower than Ron.
We don't need 98 octane fuel, we just need better quality fuel. Our 98 is better quality than our 95. My car runs fine on 95 by the way...

Did you notice our same car with Acura TSX badge is selling for 29500 us$ in USA, which is close to Lexus IS250 32000 us$ and BMW 3 series or merc around close to US$34000... here subaru liberty is pretty much close to our Euro price in Australia, however in USA subaru legacy(same liberty) is selling for 21000 US$..

What i am saying is the same car accord euro cu2 compare here with mid size normal sedan like subaru liberty, mazda 6 and price is pretty much same as them. However in USA the same car with acura badge compare and selling close to the price of lexus is250, BMW 3 series, Audi A4...

[Fredoops]

Did you notice our same car with Acura TSX badge is selling for 29500 us$ in USA, which is close to Lexus IS250 32000 us$ and BMW 3 series or merc around close to US$34000... here subaru liberty is pretty much close to our Euro price in Australia, however in USA subaru legacy(same liberty) is selling for 21000 US$..

What i am saying is the same car accord euro cu2 compare here with mid size normal sedan like subaru liberty, mazda 6 and price is pretty much same as them. However in USA the same car with acura badge compare and selling close to the price of lexus is250, BMW 3 series, Audi A4...

And Audi A4 is bascially a VW Jetta or something.
Some Lexus is basically a Toyota Camry or Landcrusier underneath

It's Badge engineering 101.
Nothing new there.

[praja6]

And Audi A4 is bascially a VW Jetta or something.
Some Lexus is basically a Toyota Camry or Landcrusier underneath

It's Badge engineering 101.
Nothing new there.

hangon so A4 is based on VW jetta? I know lexus is a luxuary version of Toyota like acura from Honda.. So why those badge people pay more..

Seems only unique one is BMW and Mercedes.... One thing is true when you see the EUro cu2 either base model or luxuary model, you can say it looks more like a luxuary car design.

I don't know why subaru don't want to compete with the luxuary market..they still unique with the all wheel drive..

BTW, does your CL9 got electric steering or hydrolic steering. CU2 got electric steering

[Kwangstuhhh]

hangon so A4 is based on VW jetta? I know lexus is a luxuary version of Toyota like acura from Honda.. So why those badge people pay more..

Seems only unique one is BMW and Mercedes.... One thing is true when you see the EUro cu2 either base model or luxuary model, you can say it looks more like a luxuary car design.

I don't know why subaru don't want to compete with the luxuary market..they still unique with the all wheel drive..

BTW, does your CL9 got electric steering or hydrolic steering. CU2 got electric steering
Never going to buy an Audi A4 after I drove a "new" hired one when I was down in Melbourne...the CU2 seriously sHxxs all over the A4 lol

[MKI4EVA]

HI guys,

How about this look, i just modify the picture in paint with red line as the grill and blue line as the headlinghts? Does this look propotion? Why Honda can't make like this way of nice looking?

the missing corner in the blue highlight for the headlights is an intentional representation of hawk eye.

17749

much like angular eye browes represent 'intent' ......the eye browe headlight theme are used often on the c-class mers.........and running lights on Audi A5 platforms are directed in the same marketing space.

I wish the dam thing was 150-200kg lighter.............

[Kwangstuhhh]

the missing corner in the blue highlight for the headlights is an intentional representation of hawk eye.

17749

much like angular eye browes represent 'intent' ......the eye browe headlight theme are used often on the c-class mers.........and running lights on Audi A5 platforms are directed in the same marketing space.

I wish the dam thing was 150-200kg lighter.............
Totally agree with the 150-200kg lighter thing haha

[Fredoops]

hangon so A4 is based on VW jetta? I know lexus is a luxuary version of Toyota like acura from Honda.. So why those badge people pay more..

Seems only unique one is BMW and Mercedes.... One thing is true when you see the EUro cu2 either base model or luxuary model, you can say it looks more like a luxuary car design.

I don't know why subaru don't want to compete with the luxuary market..they still unique with the all wheel drive..

BTW, does your CL9 got electric steering or hydrolic steering. CU2 got electric steering

Correction, the Audi A4 uses the Volkswagen Group B platform, it's the B8 platform to be exact, which is an modified VW Passat platform, and they share the engines.
Audi A3 is using the Golf platform as we all know.

[Type R Positive]

Hey Praj, you can't compare what we pay compared to USA. It'll only get you wild.
Evo's are $30k, 370z's are $35k, GTR's are $70k over there.....
No f***ing way would I be driving a CU2 if we had the same pricing as USA, that is for certain.

[praja6]

Thats correct mate, if i were in USA, i would definately go with Lexus IS250 than going for Acura tsx for sure :)

[gen2 CRX]

Maybe they say to use 95 to cover there a#% from people f$&*ing there euros by using e10 as 91 is very rare nowdays

[antony]

The all for new 2011 VW Jetta looks VERY much like the current Audi A4.

I think it will once again give the Euro a run for its money,but they are both the best medium sized sedans in Australia,and I have owned them both....

[praja6]

The all for new 2011 VW Jetta looks VERY much like the current Audi A4.

I think it will once again give the Euro a run for its money,but they are both the best medium sized sedans in Australia,and I have owned them both....

But i bet you, the EUro more look like a luxuary car than Jetta and better handling as well... am i rite anthony?

[natnat]

Jetta vs CU2... it all depends on what aspects you compare them at.

One aspect I find, VW Golf (118tsi and GTI) vs CU2, driving both on the same road / twist at the same speed, CU2 feels faster yet the Golf feels slow.

Handling.. it depends on which Jetta you are comparing it to, if you compare CU2 to Jetta with sports suspension, no doubt CU2 has much more body roll on hard cornering.

Torque... the 2.4L CU2 has much less torque to weight ratio compared to VW 1.4L 118TSI.

Luxury... German cars are marketed with often 10+ options which can bump up the price of the car by 30-50%.

The CU2 is a nice car, perfect for its intended design and function, comfy and quiet ride.. to the point i often feel sleepy driving it :p

[Fredoops]

Jetta vs CU2... it all depends on what aspects you compare them at.

One aspect I find, VW Golf (118tsi and GTI) vs CU2, driving both on the same road / twist at the same speed, CU2 feels faster yet the Golf feels slow.

Handling.. it depends on which Jetta you are comparing it to, if you compare CU2 to Jetta with sports suspension, no doubt CU2 has much more body roll on hard cornering.

Torque... the 2.4L CU2 has much less torque to weight ratio compared to VW 1.4L 118TSI.

Luxury... German cars are marketed with often 10+ options which can bump up the price of the car by 30-50%.

The CU2 is a nice car, perfect for its intended design and function, comfy and quiet ride.. to the point i often feel sleepy driving it :p

Only thing tho, the VW DSG makes the Euro Auto feel...ancient, and the fuel consumption is not comparable... 1.4 TSI is just amazing. I'd rather compare CU2 with the Skoda Octavia (which is bascially a Jetta without the options).

STILL the base model euro is a VERY good buy. It's the Lux and Lux Navi thats getting squeezed by VWs (and not the jetta, rather the Passat/Superb, which is only $2000 more, the price difference will pay for it self in fuel savings 2 years if you do city driving)


Maybe they say to use 95 to cover there a#% from people f$&*ing there euros by using e10 as 91 is very rare nowdays
Euro is 10% ethanol tolerant, TSX is probably E15 tolerant, considering the size of bioethanol industry in the mid-east of the USA

[antony]

Raja,there are pros and cons to both cars....

The Euro handles so well,but I think the Jetta handled just as well.
My Jetta was the 2.0 FSI NON turbo model,so the Euro IS more powerful,but is also heavier on petrol.

The Jetta had a 6 speed automatic,the Eueo has a 5 speed...but the Euro feels far smoother.

I think overall the Euro is better looking,with a nicer interior,both were very solid,but the Euro feels better built.The Jetta was better equiped for the same money,but the Euro is/and certainly feels like a bigger car.

Eueo has bigger seats,more headroom and width in the front,but fae less legeoom in the rear.

Another point is that the Jetta has a much better boot.My Grandmother uses a walking frame,and you could fit 2 of them in the Jetta.I was shocked because I struggled to get it into the Euro.

Overall,I would say that the Jetta was VERY similar to the CL9.

The CU2 would get my vote again over the A5 VW,but the A6 platform might make VW more competitive again ???

[Fredoops]

Raja,there are pros and cons to both cars....

The CU2 would get my vote again over the A5 VW,but the A6 platform might make VW more competitive again ???

I"m actually exchanging my CL9 for either a Skoda superb or the post facelift Passat (coming in June).

And yes, the CU2's boot is shockingly bad. Gotta say the current pre-facelift jetta isnt the best looker around.

I saw the new Kia Optima today.... All I can say is.... HOLY SH** this is a KIA?!?!?!. The build quality is up there with the euro, if not better.
Haven't driven it, and I don't expect it to be better than euro to drive, since it's a larger car (longer anyway)

[praja6]

Skoda is another VW.....

How about VW passat? Its a bigger and more luxuary look car than jetta.....

[Fredoops]

Skoda is another VW.....

How about VW passat? Its a bigger and more luxuary look car than jetta.....
I know skoda is VW, in fact, Skoda Octavia = VW Jetta, Skoda Superb = VW Passat.

Look at price and equipment. Passat is like $43k for a base model with no leather or anything. So it is a different class

BUT. the Skoda Superb dilemma I'm facing at the moment exists the same for Passat.

CU2 Lex Navi is 47k RRP (in special at the moment. apparently)

Passat 118TSI Highline with sunroof and GPS option (so it's same as CU2) is $52k full price RRP
Skoda Superb 118TSI Elegance with Sunroof (GPS standard) is $51K full price RRP
and. Citroen C5 2.0 HDI Comfort with GPS and Sunroof is also $52k full price RRP

In another words, for less than 10% more than the Euro Lux Navi you get a FULL SIZE sedan with same luxury features, but with less fuel consumption (you are looking at 30-40% less fuel consumption in the urban cycle) and a German/French badge.

Then theres new players like the Kia Optima... I'm seriously impressed by it.

[natnat]

I know skoda is VW, in fact, Skoda Octavia = VW Jetta, Skoda Superb = VW Passat.

Look at price and equipment. Passat is like $43k for a base model with no leather or anything. So it is a different class

BUT. the Skoda Superb dilemma I'm facing at the moment exists the same for Passat.

CU2 Lex Navi is 47k RRP (in special at the moment. apparently)

Passat 118TSI Highline with sunroof and GPS option (so it's same as CU2) is $52k full price RRP
Skoda Superb 118TSI Elegance with Sunroof (GPS standard) is $51K full price RRP
and. Citroen C5 2.0 HDI Comfort with GPS and Sunroof is also $52k full price RRP

In another words, for less than 10% more than the Euro Lux Navi you get a FULL SIZE sedan with same luxury features, but with less fuel consumption (you are looking at 30-40% less fuel consumption in the urban cycle) and a German/French badge.

Then theres new players like the Kia Optima... I'm seriously impressed by it.

have you thought of the major service costs on the VW? It's quite common to spend around $2k on a major one, i know someone spent $3k on a 60kms service on a 2008 GTI. you may want to calc this into the petrol savings equation :)

And, I had engine replacement on my 118TSI, but it was the 1.4l twin charged version on a Mk6 Golf.

Just for your info, I paid $46k for my CU2 lux navi with extended 5 yrs wty before they had any special and price cut in Nov10. So, I would not pay more than $44,500 for a new one now, esp if it's a 2010 plated one.

Buy CU2 for trouble free motoring despite of old K24A engine, light steering feel and auto transmission tech, buy Skoda for fun, solid steering feel (but minor rattles may appear) and the AWESOME DSG (although the DSG oil is expensive) :) Especially if it comes with paddle shifters which can be replaced with this:
http://www.s2tpp.com/files/QuickSiteImages/VW3.5_011.jpg

Pity, there appears to be no one making aftermarket all aluminum alloy paddles for CU2...

Btw, have you considered a used Passat R36? This car will put smiles on your face when you revv the engine with the 3.6L V6 sound.

[antony]

I think the Skoda Superb is butt ugly,and a very poor seller.

I would rather have a Passat,but IMHO,the Euro is still better,as has the best buld quality,excellent reliability,great resale,and looks HOT.

The curse of all modern VWs is that they seem to be plagued by rattles and squeeks,which would drive me insane.

And avoid French cars,they are hoffific to own and maintain.

[tony1234]

I think the Skoda Superb is butt ugly,and a very poor seller.

I would rather have a Passat,but IMHO,the Euro is still better,as has the best buld quality,excellent reliability,great resale,and looks HOT.

The curse of all modern VWs is that they seem to be plagued by rattles and squeeks,which would drive me insane.

And avoid French cars,they are hoffific to own and maintain.

+1 for avoiding french cars.I've heard some horror stories.Stay away from them!

[praja6]

+1 for avoiding french cars.I've heard some horror stories.Stay away from them!

I think thats correct, my previous boss's daughter got a Peugeot 207, she always had to spent lot for servicing, once she told me that they charged 500+ something just for changed the right hand side headlight globe. When she asked why its expensive, the dealer told her the globe is a special one for the car.. FInally she got rid of the car and around 6months ago she bought a Civic Type R.

Also BMW is another expensive one, my friend's mom's 07 BMW 5 series needed to change new battery and dealer charged $1200 for it..

This is the main reason i gave up idea buying BMW 3 seris and was tossing between lexus IS250 and Euro, i could not justify paying 57K driveaway for brand new IS250 for a Toyoda based and ended up with accord Euro.

[Dr P]

I love my french car.

Renault Megane Sport....its unique in its attitude

[Fredoops]

I think the Skoda Superb is butt ugly,and a very poor seller.
I would rather have a Passat,but IMHO,the Euro is still better,as has the best buld quality,excellent reliability,great resale,and looks HOT.
The curse of all modern VWs is that they seem to be plagued by rattles and squeeks,which would drive me insane.

And avoid French cars,they are horrific to own and maintain.

Beauty is to the eyes of the beholder, I personally think a Black Superb with extra dark tint = gangster.

After owning a CL9... Although it gave me no trouble, the dealer experience had been sub-par at the best.

I don't believe this whole "reputation" thing anymore, I mean... A Toyota has got a reliable reputation... then it kills you because the brake or gas fails.:thumbdwn: Skoda had a horrid eastern European reputation, then the Germans took over.

At least with VW dealers I'll know they'll be using VW extended service oil... Not Castrol GTX or some other cheap s*** that comes in a barrel.

Part prices from Honda Australia are matching European cars, thank god for eBay...

The new VW 7spd DSG uses 1.7 ltr of DSG oil, compares to the 7ltr of the old 6spd.

AS to the servicing cost thingy below are some interesting data from carservice.com.au, I took the high end of cost spectrum.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/silverster/Servicing.jpg



I love my french car.

Renault Megane Sport....its unique in its attitude
The new Megane Sport Cup... in yellow... thats not a car... thats an orgasm.

[natnat]

I love my french car.

Renault Megane Sport....its unique in its attitude

here is a review of Renault Megane RS250 Trophee by someone who I think is very well respected on VW forums, he's written many useful and technically serious postings.

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f112/golf-r-v-golf-gti-45833-121.html

".....Renault Megane RS250:
The true driver’s hot-hatch. Delivers fun in spades and definitely the pick for a back road blast or mountain climb. Despite the rudimentary chassis design, the tuning of the chassis is second to none and the LSD coupled with Revo-knuckle is a revelation for lifting the game in outright fwd grip and absence of torque steer. ......."

[natnat]

I think the Skoda Superb is butt ugly,and a very poor seller....


your opinion is obviously in opposite of Top Gear and other UK magazine writers..

http://www.caradvice.com.au/57886/skoda-superb-top-gear-uk-car-of-the-year/

http://www.skoda.com.au/skodaaustralia/awards.aspx

[CU2 Euro 09]

Doesn't really matter about the Skoda, it's doesn't look bad but IMO looks like it's in the same market segment as the Honda Accord (old persons segment), not the Euro. So if that's your type of thing go and get one. Doesn't look as good as the CU2.

[Type R Positive]

your opinion is obviously in opposite of Top Gear and other UK magazine writers..

http://www.caradvice.com.au/57886/skoda-superb-top-gear-uk-car-of-the-year/

http://www.skoda.com.au/skodaaustralia/awards.aspxBut in the real world, skoda is crap. Very poor resale, very unknown brand.

[Type R Positive]

At least with VW dealers I'll know they'll be using VW extended service oil... Not Castrol GTX or some other cheap s*** that comes in a barrel.don't kid yourself. I test oil at work, as long as it's still got anti-oxidants, the oil is good.

I'll be doing a write up soon when I get some more recip engine testing sample tubes in. I want to find out how good this castrol edge 5w30 is after 10k kms. Not sure where you live, but the company who supplies our equipment, have an office and lab in Sydney and Perth.

[tony1234]

But in the real world, skoda is crap. Very poor resale, very unknown brand.

True.Might be a good car and a nice drive but if retained value is shit then it's not a good buy.

[Type R Positive]

True.Might be a good car and a nice drive but if retained value is shit then it's not a good buy.Its like a Saab. I'm sure it's a nice car, but no way in the world would you own one!

[Fredoops]

don't kid yourself. I test oil at work, as long as it's still got anti-oxidants, the oil is good.

I'll be doing a write up soon when I get some more recip engine testing sample tubes in. I want to find out how good this castrol edge 5w30 is after 10k kms. Not sure where you live, but the company who supplies our equipment, have an office and lab in Sydney and Perth.
It's not about the oil mate, it's about the dealer post-sale experience, its shocking, they put up advertising in the damn service rooms about "Genuine HONDA" parts and charge you mercilessly... yet in the workshop they don't even use the "Genuine Honda" parts they talk to death and charge you to death about.

also I'm in Brisbane, I'd love to send you some samples for a test, but I've just got car serviced with Mobil one EP a mth ago, so it dont need another oil change for 15k or so.
- I am in your camp about the Castrol Edge... I Just dont trust Castrol. But thats just me.

About the oils, it's not all about the oxidation. It's the other additives in the oil and how it reacts to the engine and engine wear.
In fact heres the API testing results form 2008.
http://ultimatelubes.com/API-Comparative-Motor-Oil-Testing.php
Mobil One faired pretty well considering the cost of Amsoil.


Its like a Saab. I'm sure it's a nice car, but no way in the world would you own one!
People said that about Japanese cars 30 years ago, and Korean cars 5 years ago.
Europeans said that about Kia 10 years ago, and it's now surpassing Peugeot and Citroen in the small car segment.


But in the real world, skoda is crap. Very poor resale, very unknown brand.
Not meant to be rude and I certainly don't want to get into an argument. but the published data disagrees.
Wheelsmag Goldstar rating back in 2009 listed Octavia having retain resale of 67.6%, Roomster retain resale of 67.4% It's not what any reasonable person would describe as "very poor".

Besides, my car's registered under a business name, I don't give a damn about resale, less resale = more tax credit.

[Type R Positive]

It's not about the oil mate, it's about the dealer post-sale experience, its shocking, they put up advertising in the damn service rooms about "Genuine HONDA" parts and charge you mercilessly... yet in the workshop they don't even use the "Genuine Honda" parts they talk to death and charge you to death about.

also I'm in Brisbane, I'd love to send you some samples for a test, but I've just got car serviced with Mobil one EP a mth ago, so it dont need another oil change for 15k or so.
- I am in your camp about the Castrol Edge... I Just dont trust Castrol. But thats just me.I trust castrol, just want to see how spent the oil really is after 10k kms. Some of the best turbine oil we got is Mobil, but I don't want to pay twice the price for something when I don't have to.

I know what you mean about Honda servicing, I get my car serviced at K-Mart lol! It's not just Honda, they are all shocking.


About the oils, it's not all about the oxidation. It's the other additives in the oil and how it reacts to the engine and engine wear.
In fact heres the API testing results form 2008.
http://ultimatelubes.com/API-Comparative-Motor-Oil-Testing.php
Mobil One faired pretty well considering the cost of Amsoil.It might suprise you, but yes it is. With anti-oxidants, we measure the Amines and Phenols. When these are gone, your oil is too. They do everything from preventing bearing corrosion, free redical elimination, peroxide elimination, stop sludge and varnish, and corrosion protection. Everything is relative to these two things. Everything! It is a 17 second $15 test to measure this, as opposed to a $500 6 week turn around to measure everything else to get the same answer. I'll explain more on the chemistry side of things when I get my own oil testing sorted.


Not meant to be rude and I certainly don't want to get into an argument. but the published data disagrees.
Wheelsmag Goldstar rating back in 2009 listed Octavia having retain resale of 67.6%, Roomster retain resale of 67.4% It's not what any reasonable person would describe as "very poor".

Besides, my car's registered under a business name, I don't give a damn about resale, less resale = more tax credit.LOL! Take a look on carpoint. New Octiva DSG's are going for over $40k. Second hand '09 models are going for $22k. As I said, POOR!

Leyland P76 won COTY too.....

[natnat]

............Also BMW is another expensive one, my friend's mom's 07 BMW 5 series needed to change new battery and dealer charged $1200 for it...

I think if a person can afford a 5 series, which is around $100k new, the person should have accepted the fact that it is an expensive car to maintain, else a Yaris with capped servicing is the cheapest way to go :p


But in the real world, skoda is crap. Very poor resale, very unknown brand.

Skoda was established in 1859, as an arms manufacturer, I'm sure a lot of Europeans know this brand well... Honda was established in 1948, around a decade younger.


True.Might be a good car and a nice drive but if retained value is shit then it's not a good buy.

I wonder how much $$,$$$ an AMG C63 depreciates in the first year.... yet I see some many of this car around. A good buy? I guess these AMG buyers don't care too much on resale values and spend most of their time making a lot more $$$$$$

In many boys toys, there are products for each market segment.
Budget segment: Kia, Hyundai - these buyers look at cars as a mean of getting from A to B, for them a car is a car and are quite happy to join goget.com.au, a carshare rental, if they live close enough to a council provided car pod.
Middle segment: Honda, Skoda - these buyers like getting from A to B with some fancy, some luxury, some comfort, some excitement; without breaking the bank
Premium segment: Lexus to Bentley - these buyers want to travel from A to B in Hollywood / Mafia / Yakuza style :p

[Fredoops]

LOL! Take a look on carpoint. New Octiva DSG's are going for over $40k. Second hand '09 models are going for $22k. As I said, POOR!

Leyland P76 won COTY too.....
WHICH DSG are you talking about? they all come with DSG's... for 40k you are looking at a RS version (aka GTi on the cheap).

A brand new MY11 Octavia is $30.5k drive away RRP with DSG.
Back in 2009 the 1.8 Turbo Octavia with DSG is only 33k

And that 22k car you refer to on carpoint is a fraud, and the photos are stock/press photos from caradvice.com.au.

even if thats a real deal, it only presents a which is a 30% depreciation, $11k Dep

You can get an 2009 Euro Auto Std for $28k when it's $36k RRP new back then, a 24% depreciation. $8k Dep

Difference of 6%.

According to Fuel cost calculator http://www.ahgwa.com.au/fuel_calculator.php
If both cars travel 20000km per year, 15000km(288km/w) on city and 5000k(96km/w) on highway, assuming petrol is 140ct /ltr
The Skoda 1.8TSI will save you $615 every year
Also See my spreadsheet above on servicing costs... and tyres (16 inch vs 17 & 18 inch...)

The cost difference aint that great if you taken in all the factors.

...Not to mention the savings on greenhouse emissions.

Used to be an accountant.... I can bang on all day throwing numbers around

[boleh]

Fredops

What car are you getting to replcae ur 03 CL9?

What do you think of a Calais V V8? RRP is scary but you really pay around $50k driveaway for a brand new unit. Leather, sat nav, etc. & 260kw/510nm can't go wrong. ADR81 FC: 12.2l/100km. Happy with RON91.

EDIT: Example of a brand new MY10 $48k driveaway (damn.. getting close to Euro Lux Navi): http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/bncis/details.aspx?R=9733702&__Qpb=true&Cr=1&__Ns=pCar_PriceSort_Decimal|0||pCar_RankSort_Int32 |1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&keywords=&__N=1216 1246 4294965857 4294965739 246&SearchAction=N&silo=1011&seot=1&tsrc=allcarhome&__Nne=15&trecs=75&__sid=127D7BD39756

EDIT (Again): Redline Series (Brembo brakes!) $51k driveaway: http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/bncis/details.aspx?R=9525054&__Qpb=true&Cr=6&__Ns=pCar_PriceSort_Decimal|0||pCar_RankSort_Int32 |1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&keywords=&__N=1216 1246 4294965857 4294965739 246&SearchAction=N&silo=1011&seot=1&tsrc=allcarhome&__Nne=15&trecs=75&__sid=127D7BD39756

[Fredoops]

Fredops

What car are you getting to replcae ur 03 CL9?

What do you think of a Calais V V8? RRP is scary but you really pay around $50k driveaway for a brand new unit. Leather, sat nav, etc. & 260kw/510nm can't go wrong. ADR81 FC: 12.2l/100km. Happy with RON91.

EDIT: Example of a brand new MY10 $48k driveaway (damn.. getting close to Euro Lux Navi): http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/bncis/details.aspx?R=9733702&__Qpb=true&Cr=1&__Ns=pCar_PriceSort_Decimal|0||pCar_RankSort_Int32 |1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&keywords=&__N=1216 1246 4294965857 4294965739 246&SearchAction=N&silo=1011&seot=1&tsrc=allcarhome&__Nne=15&trecs=75&__sid=127D7BD39756

EDIT (Again): Redline Series (Brembo brakes!) $51k driveaway: http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/bncis/details.aspx?R=9525054&__Qpb=true&Cr=6&__Ns=pCar_PriceSort_Decimal|0||pCar_RankSort_Int32 |1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&keywords=&__N=1216 1246 4294965857 4294965739 246&SearchAction=N&silo=1011&seot=1&tsrc=allcarhome&__Nne=15&trecs=75&__sid=127D7BD39756

I"m looking at either the new VW Passat or the Skoda Superb.
Something larger inside than the Euro but drink less and emits less greenhouse gas.

as much as I like the GM Gen V8's, commodores or falcons just isnt my thing.

[natnat]

I"m looking at either the new VW Passat or the Skoda Superb.
Something larger inside than the Euro but drink less and emits less greenhouse gas.

as much as I like the GM Gen V8's, commodores or falcons just isnt my thing.

Fredoops, you should find some useful info on the Skoda here:

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f86/

I'm currently watching Top Gear and Jeremy Clarkson gives a lot of AAAA on a Skoda Yeti (a Tiguan in Skoda face I think).

[CU2 Euro 09]

Topgear review was very tongue in cheek. Hammond and May nailed it when they both said the Skoda is an old mans car. Though if a Skoda can race against an ancient Ferrari and win it must be fast right. Though if it's better than a $500,000 pound Maybach you'd be mad not to buy it. A Skoda would appreciate in value as you drive it out of the dealer. With better economy and cheaper to run than a scooter. There'll be a rush on them soon, so don't miss out and go get one

[Fredoops]

Im not buying a yeti, speaking about the Yeti, its better than any softroader Honda/Toyota/Nissan can throw at it. It leaves CR-V dead in just about every category.

Back to topic about the Euro, unless Honda brings the 2.2 turbo diesel type-s into the country, I see no benefit of my getting a Cu2 what-so-ever at my price range.

[natnat]

............

AS to the servicing cost thingy below are some interesting data from carservice.com.au, I took the high end of cost spectrum.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/silverster/Servicing.jpg




I just rang Rick Damelian to get my CU2 first 6mths/7,500kms service quote, $303 with semi syn Catrol Magnatec (they use $35 oil which can be bought at Supercheap).

I paid $420 for my 118TSI first year/15,000kms service using full syn Castrol SLX Professional II (>$100 the oil alone and only sold at VW service / parts).

[Fredoops]

I just rang Rick Damelian to get my CU2 first 6mths/7,500kms service quote, $303 with semi syn Catrol Magnatec (they use $35 oil which can be bought at Supercheap).

I paid $420 for my 118TSI first year/15,000kms service using full syn Castrol SLX Professional II (>$100 the oil alone and only sold at VW service / parts).



Hmm Honda dealers buy their oil in huge barrels, so it's like $15 dollar worth of oil at most.

Get Honda dealer to quote you service with the Honda FEO ultra syn..... it's $70 extra or so (read: even if you are using your own oil, we'd still charge you for the Castrol Magnetic which we will not be using).

Honda wants you to see the dealer twice a year. Its like going to see the in-laws which you hate... twice a year.... only that the Honda dealer will cost you more.

[praja6]

Fredoop,

I asked the HOnda dealer why honda service is every 6months interval and other car such as Camry are like 1yr or 15k... The dealer told me, especially for Accord Euro its made in Japan and its made for japan and other european good standard roads, not designed for australian rough roads.. Thats why the service interval is every 6months or 10k. However for Camry and Falcodore made in Austalia for the Australian tough roads condition, thats why it has longer service interval. He even pointed out me, Corolla made in japan is 10k service interval and BMW and Mercedes are now change the service interval with tricky term "COndition Based" not 20k interval anymore..

I said hmmm, ohh okk, but still i feel like Honda try to rip off from customer...

I don't know it may be true for aussie built vehicles like camry/aurion/falcon/commodore they made for local conditions... hmm..

[SPQR]

But in the real world, skoda is crap. Very poor resale, very unknown brand.

I think that any car that isn't sold throughout the country is doomed to poor resale. The importer probably thinks it's a "niche" market brand that only certain types in the population would buy. There are other factors at play as well; such as how often the car is in for a warranty claim etc.... On the other hand, they have to develop a market slowly.

Skoda isn't sold in the NT. But the local Honda dealer sells VW. They're becoming more popular but if you talk to the service personnel and ask which brand has the lowest warranty claims, they'll tell you that Honda has by far less claims.

[SPQR]

Fredoop,

I asked the HOnda dealer why honda service is every 6months interval and other car such as Camry are like 1yr or 15k... The dealer told me, especially for Accord Euro its made in Japan and its made for japan and other european good standard roads, not designed for australian rough roads.. Thats why the service interval is every 6months or 10k. However for Camry and Falcodore made in Austalia for the Australian tough roads condition, thats why it has longer service interval. He even pointed out me, Corolla made in japan is 10k service interval and BMW and Mercedes are now change the service interval with tricky term "COndition Based" not 20k interval anymore..

I said hmmm, ohh okk, but still i feel like Honda try to rip off from customer...

I don't know it may be true for aussie built vehicles like camry/aurion/falcon/commodore they made for local conditions... hmm..

I think service interval has more to do with the tolerances used by the manufacturer. The German brands use the onboard computer to assess from 'car use data' when the next service should be. If you drive within certain parameters then you can expect longer service intervals. Things that reduce the service intervals include stop-start traffic, short trips, cold ambient temperatures, hot ambient temperatures, long periods idling, extended periods at high revs in low gears, extended periods lugging the engine in high gear, etc. Honda has selected the lowest common denominator 10K/6 month service interval to cover all and introduces 5K/3 month intervals for extra poor treatment.

I think that in Europe, Honda come with the same 'condition based' servicing as do the German cars. We just don't get that option here; just like we don't get many other gadgets/devices that Honda sells in overseas markets.

[natnat]

But in the real world, skoda is crap. Very poor resale, very unknown brand.

Toyota Inova & Isuzu Panther are very unknown in OZ either :p

[tron07]

Get Honda dealer to quote you service with the Honda FEO ultra syn..... it's $70 extra or so (read: even if you are using your own oil, we'd still charge you for the Castrol Magnetic which we will not be using).



I use my own oil al the time and I am not charged for oil... I am sure many will also tell you the same thing.

Another thing, the price figures in that chart are way more excpensive than what I had been charged by the dealers. :p

[Type R Positive]

Toyota Inova & Isuzu Panther are very unknown in OZ either :pDifference is we don't get those in Australia.....

[Type R Positive]

I think that any car that isn't sold throughout the country is doomed to poor resale. The importer probably thinks it's a "niche" market brand that only certain types in the population would buy. There are other factors at play as well; such as how often the car is in for a warranty claim etc.... On the other hand, they have to develop a market slowly.

Skoda isn't sold in the NT. But the local Honda dealer sells VW. They're becoming more popular but if you talk to the service personnel and ask which brand has the lowest warranty claims, they'll tell you that Honda has by far less claims.Exactly! Skoda? Skoda who? Lol!

[Fredoops]

I use my own oil al the time and I am not charged for oil... I am sure many will also tell you the same thing.

Another thing, the price figures in that chart are way more excpensive than what I had been charged by the dealers. :p

I did mention in my post that's the high end of the ranged pricing.

[Fredoops]

Exactly! Skoda? Skoda who? Lol!
Just because you haven't heard it doesn't mean it's bad.
No one knows Honda/datsun back in 1970's. Does that mean it's "bad"?. It took Japanese cars over 20 years to get rid of those prejudices. Jesus a 1600cc datsun 120y can out run a 4 liter hq.

Besides, anyone who's been in Europe knows skoda, in fact my cousin has a VRS wagon with a YETI on back order.

How many more deathes and mass recalls before people would understand Perception and reputation don't mean s***. The merit is to the car and car itself.

You buy a Toyota because it's reliable and you buy a Honda because it's economical... All those common perceptions are now false

[Type R Positive]

Just because you haven't heard it doesn't mean it's bad.Never said it was bad. Just called Skoda crap for very poor resale value, and very unknown brand.


No one knows Honda/datsun back in 1970's. Does that mean it's "bad"?. It took Japanese cars over 20 years to get rid of those prejudices. ....by forging a reputation for quality and reliability over the decades past. Same thing any manufacturer has to do.


Jesus a 1600cc datsun 120y can out run a 4 liter hq. 120Y's were 1200cc. Mine used to do 80km/h flat out, down a hill, with a tail wind.


How many more deathes and mass recalls before people would understand Perception and reputation don't mean s***. The merit is to the car and car itself.Perception and reputation don't mean shit hey? You'll find out the hard way when you try and sell your Skoda, just like everyone else trying to now.....


You buy a Toyota because it's reliable and you buy a Honda because it's economical... All those common perceptions are now false
Says who? You?

[praja6]

Personally when ibuy a car, i will go for a known brand and model here in Australia, eventhough the new or recent model her was reliable and popular in other Countries.. I bought Honda accord euro as i know the honda brand and if any case going to sell my car soon or later, i will get more response for buyers than trying to sell a car whieh has been released into Australian market for sometime, eventhough it is popular in other countries.

Have a look, eventhough Toyota got so many recalls, still corolla still sold most car of 4000 last month. This is because people buy corolla will know its not only economical or reliable or cheap, but can also sell it quicker.

[Type R Positive]

Have a look, eventhough Toyota got so many recalls, still corolla still sold most car of 4000 last month. This is because people buy corolla will know its not only economical or reliable or cheap, but can also sell it quicker.Toyota just don't take any chances, and will recall if any problem is found. Unlike other manufacturers who will do everything not to recall a car.

The bull bar mounts on my Prado were recalled, after it was found that a very few examples had cracked when used over great distances driving on corrugations. Mine were fine, never knew there was an issue untill the dealer rang and told me. They could have just replaced the ones that had an issue case by case (sound familiar?), but perception and reputation is everything.

Toyota have the best manufacturing standards in the world, and sell their business practices to every other industry. All build the perception and reputation of Toyota, something that Fredoops says doesn't mean shit lol!

[praja6]

Toyota have the best manufacturing standards in the world, and sell their business practices to every other industry. All build the perception and reputation of Toyota, something that Fredoops says doesn't mean shit lol![/QUOTE]

YOu are absolutely correct Matt about Toyota standard. I think anywhere in the world most people knows the Toyota brand and will buy with a trust and reliability. However the interier in Toyota, especially when i look at camry or aurion are not the same standard as our Accord Euro..

Just a fact, if any of the toyota car got the ping issue like many of you talk about here in accord euro, i am sure toyota would have already recalled those models voluntarily to fix the issue..

[buddah51au]

The main reason Toyota do so well with sales figures is they offer huge discounts to fleet & rental companies. Overall Corolla is number 1 seller, but if you look into private sales Mazda got the nod last I read.

[SPQR]

Toyota have the best manufacturing standards in the world, and sell their business practices to every other industry. All build the perception and reputation of Toyota, something that Fredoops says doesn't mean shit lol!

If you wish to find out how Toyota got to be that way read up on the American, Dr. W. Edwards Deming at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

and then:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Production_System

A lot of it stems from the American decision after WW2 not to absolutely crush and vanquish Japanese society, but rather rebuild it into a powerful democratic constitutional monarchy and to help its industries and people; who at that time had been reduced to severe poverty and so amongst the lowest living standards of any industrialised nation. The Americans did a similar thing for Germany and Italy after WW2 and each of these three economies rank in the top 7 in the world.

[Fredoops]

People do forget things easy don't they.

Can remind all you folks Toyota holds the record of the worlds largest safety recall. And it only happened after a number of fatalities which resulted in US legislators forcing Toyota to act, Toyota promply ignored the issue until shit hit the fan.

The law suit for this is ongoing. This whole debacle went down in 2009-10.
The recall was for EIGHT models built over a 5 year period.

**kluger is the only car to ever flip in a Wheels test for stability control effectiveness (2007 city)
**Lexus GX460 (prado based) one of only 2 cars in the past decade to recieve a NOT SAFE - DO NOT BUY by US consumer reports

Reputation leads to complacency. THAT is the problem. It is the consumer who will pay for the car-maker's complacency. As to the guy who's brainmatter went through the windscreen because his gas pedal jammed, he paid it with his life.

Like it or not, it is up to us consumers to keep carmakers on their toes. At the end of the day any carmaker is still a corporation. Whose sole purpose is to make money. Down to the core the only difference between car maker like Honda/vw/Toyota and a company like BP(who's oil spill ruined gulf of Mexico) is the product they sell.

[Type R Positive]

**kluger is the only car to ever flip in a Wheels test for stability control effectiveness (2007 city)Come on man, tell the whole story.


**Lexus GX460 (prado based) one of only 2 cars in the past decade to recieve a NOT SAFE - DO NOT BUY by US consumer reportsBeen recalled and resolved. But don't worry man, you can't buy one. Left hand drive only.

[praja6]

To tell the truth in subcontinent community mostly in average people(people from India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Bangladesh) blindly go for Toyota, mainly based on their reliability and popularity. Thats why people started calling Camry and corolla as a "CUrry" car.
This is the main reason i don't want to buy a Toyota and wanted something different with under 35k budget. Within the decent car i found was our Accord Euro, not only it fit my budget, also it has a luxuary car look.

Still its a question, does Honda hold same quality as Toyota? We will see...

If i personally buy an european car, i would either go for Mercedes or BMW thats it. If i buy a car in another 5years time and my finance situation permit i will definately go for the BMW 5 series.

[Fredoops]

Come on man, tell the whole story.
Read up wheels 2007 Car of the year edition. and then Toyota's response in writing on the very next issue.

[natnat]

Toyota, I've owned 3 Toyota's in the past. 2 x 2006 Yaris & 2001 Rav4. Impressions: they're just basic reliable cars, cheap to run and cheap to service and can use E10 petrol

Mitsubishi, I owned a 2001 Lancer 1.5L, impression: it was a very basic car and bought it without much thinking. Only lasted 1.5 year.

Honda, I've owned 2 Honda's in the past and 1 current. 1996 Civic VTi / EK sedan, 2006 Accord Euro Lux / CL9 sedan, and 2010 CU2. Impressions: the EK was a fun first car and being 1.6Ltr SOHC and petrol was 56cents / L back then, I spent only $25 a week to travel 400-450kms. CL9 was a nice car, great for its intended function but it was no sports sedan as advertised on the brochure. CU2, also great for its intended function and comfy, but again it's not a sports sedan and slow and heavy. Have to revv above 5000rpm to get rush. CL9 and CU2 recommended petrol is 95 ron, so it's been quite costly to run for average of 10L-12L/100kms in Sydney.

VW Golf GTI, it's a hot hatch and it's HOT yet easy for a daily drive and average 8L/100kms despite frequent on boost rush :p

IMO, it's not good to say bad things about a brand which you have not had before. It's like a Mazda salesperson who says to you bad things about Honda and vice versa. I'm sure a Rolls Royce / Ferrari salesperson would never use such sales tricks cos it's cheap trick.

[Type R Positive]

Read up wheels 2007 Car of the year edition. and then Toyota's response in writing on the very next issue.So some idiot rolls a kluger being an idiot, Toyota is shit? Come on man, post what the idiot did!

[CU2 Euro 09]

[QUOTE=Type R Positive;2955290]

120Y's were 1200cc. Mine used to do 80km/h flat out, down a hill, with a tail wind.

QUOTE]

I got my 76 model 120Y up to 160km/h once. Had a 5 min runup down a long straight gradient coming back from Giru to Townsville. Talk about having a feeling of floating.

[Type R Positive]

I got my 76 model 120Y up to 160km/h once. Had a 5 min runup down a long straight gradient coming back from Giru to Townsville. Talk about having a feeling of floating.LOL! I know that road well! Too many pot holes there now, as well as too many cops.... 160km/h is a bloody good effort!!! But quicker than a 253 HQ? ROFL!

[Fredoops]

So some idiot rolls a Kluger being an idiot, Toyota is shit? Come on man, post what the idiot did!

First. I never said Toyota was shit.
Mate you've completely, utterly missed the entire point I was trying to make.
- There's no point arguing, and no point turning this thread into a my brand vs your brand, USDM vs JDM, iphone vs android, ATi vs Nividia, GTR vs 911 turbo sort of crap, so this will be my last post in this thread.

The entire point I was trying to make (I gonna sound like Michael Moore... but that fat-ass' got a good point):

ALL car companies, after all is just another corporation, whose core purpose is to make a profit for shareholders
All companies/corporations place shareholder return ahead of corporate social responsibility (and sometimes, the company comes before ethical standards (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704625004575089803880464096.html) )
ANY brand can produce a lemon or an unsafe vehicle, regardless of reputation
ALL car manufacturer are looking for various ways to cut cost and increase margins.
The history have many examples of car companies ignoring warnings which resulted in deaths (Ford Pinto/Crown Vic, Toyota last year etc)
Reaction of ALL companies (cars or not) when faces with issues that could be damaging to the brand is to go on the defensive regardless of whether they are right or wrong (those CU2 owners who brought the car when it first came out with the pinging problem had experienced this first hand).
PR departments sole purpose is to "influence" the public to the benefit of the company, call that whatever you like, I call it deception.
Past performance does not predict future performance... Otherwise Bernie Madoff would still be a free man.
Finally, your compensation from the libel lawsuit against any company.. Is a tax deductible. Look up James Hardie and the Asbestos compensation fund.


Excuse me for treating all car companies with contempt. They are, like all corporations, a necessary evil for this world, just don't treat them like Mother Theresa, they are not.

[SPQR]

People do forget things easy don't they.

Can remind all you folks Toyota holds the record of the worlds largest safety recall. And it only happened after a number of fatalities which resulted in US legislators forcing Toyota to act, Toyota promply ignored the issue until shit hit the fan....

I'm no great fan of Toyota mobile appliances but their production systems are cutting edge. You might recall a recent news story that NASA had been tasked with investigating if the Toyota "drive-by-wire" computer code was at fault in the 'jammed accelerator' cases in the USA (why these things only happen in USA?). NASA reported that Toyota's DBW computer code was faultless and the the fault, if any, would have been of a mechanical nature; such as the accelerator cable (the part that goes to the BBW unit) or that a car floor mat accessory had jammed the accelerator pedal.

[antony]

Toyotas are very good,but are also bland and boring,Hondas have far more personality.

IMHO Toyotas are on a par with Mazdas,and Hondas are slightly up the ladder,more on a par with Volkswagens...

[Type R Positive]

Toyotas are very good,but are also bland and boring,Hondas have far more personality.
Even Honda boring now..... but the money is in the boring.
Toyota knows they're boring, hence the FT-86 project! I'll be getting one if they are 1/2 decent.

[tony1234]

Even Honda boring now..... but the money is in the boring.
Toyota knows they're boring, hence the FT-86 project! I'll be getting one if they are 1/2 decent.

True.Honda don't have anything exciting in their current lineup of cars.Volume is where the money is and boring cars are the product of this.The masses don't like anything a bit different.