Koni yellow owners? What were your damper settings?

[dee-y]

Hey guys,

As the title says, I'm most likely going to get them with eibachs on my cl9 euro. What damper setting should I set it to, considering I'll only be doing everyday driving.

D

[e240]

EG Civic - about 3~4 on the street, afterwhich it gets too harsh and my poor bones ache

[EG30]

I would start with 1/2 turn from the softest setting and go from there.

As with most dampers the turn vs damping isnt linear and the last 1/4 turn from the firmest setting yield the largest difference with the yellows I find. Koni recommends the adjustment to be used as a wear compensation device; ie once you've found the sweet spot to suit your car and springs leave it there till the rebound ( stock koni yellows adj for rebound only not bump ) weakens due to wear and tear.

[Mikecivic78]

Good thread.

Info will be helpful as I'm getting Koni Yellow and Eibach pro kit for my Em1.

Cheap as from ebay atm. I'm looking at only $1000 for both brand new shipping incl.. Gonna do the install myself with a mate. Great bang for buck mod IMO.

[dee-y]

Was gonna do it with a mate, but don't have a spring compressor unfortunately. Place called southside suspension, they quoted 300 ish including wheel alignment. Not bad I guess.

[vinnY]

putting it out there, depends on your spring rates too
rocking a h&r kit(the use koni yellow dampers with their own springs)
as far as I know the springs are around 330/280lbs or 5.9/5kg progressive

running about 0.75turns from softest at the front, and 0.5turns from softest at the rear
16x7 wheels with 205/50/16 tyres, 38psi front cold and 36psi rear cold

[Mikecivic78]

Was gonna do it with a mate, but don't have a spring compressor unfortunately. Place called southside suspension, they quoted 300 ish including wheel alignment. Not bad I guess.

You need springs compressors. 2, not just one.

You could get a mate to drive you to a shop and give them the springs and shockies. They can compress them for you in a spring compression press. Shouldn't cost much. 50 bucks or so at a guess.

[dee-y]

Ah k. I know Ken at accurate does awesome sussy jobs, he quoted 430. I'll keep my options open.

[dee-y]

putting it out there, depends on your spring rates too
rocking a h&r kit(the use koni yellow dampers with their own springs)
as far as I know the springs are around 330/280lbs or 5.9/5kg progressive

running about 0.75turns from softest at the front, and 0.5turns from softest at the rear
16x7 wheels with 205/50/16 tyres, 38psi front cold and 36psi rear cold

Not sure what the spring rates are for eibach off the top of my head, but think I'll just start with .5 to .75 turns from fully soft. I'll be running 18X8 225/35/18

[dee-y]

Getting these put in tomorrow!

[Mikecivic78]

nice, don't forget to post pics

[dee-y]

Just drove home with my new setup. Liking it so far! Bout 1 turns from full soft and so far it feels pretty smooth! I'll post up pics on the weekend.

[dee-y]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5136/5478343991_371ef55623_b.jpg

[Mikecivic78]

Have you got any other pics? Your pic is too dark, I can't see the tops of the tyres, let alone the gap :-S

Also, did you use the stock perches, or the lower perches on the shocks? How many inch drop was it?

[dee-y]

Haven't got a good close up of the wheels, but this might help. Sorry bout the crappy iPhone pic, but I think you can make it out.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5258/5479755779_2d12abe958_b.jpg

I'm not sure on the inch drop, but it's about 120mm off the ground.

I used the lower perches.

[Mikecivic78]

Wow, it's nice and low. Good stuff.

[marquee]

I found a sweet spot to by koni yellows and eibach springs and koni yellows for about 800 from the states not including shipping im awaiting an email from them for postage costs not sure if can advertise on here so will not do

[marquee]

Sorry guys can't go ahead against forum rules which I do understand

[vinnY]

I'm pretty sure you can tell people where you bought stuff from, not so much about their service or such though

[Mikecivic78]

Can anyone tell me if it wise to keep the same firmness front and rear? ATM, I'm running 50% front and rear.

Don't mean to sound like a noob, but some people have said that it's better to make it softer at the rear.

[vinnY]

well if you think about it the rear's softer already since it's got lower spring rate springs

[Mikecivic78]

well if you think about it the rear's softer already since it's got lower spring rate springs
So since rear spring rates are lower there is no need to make rear damping softer right? I imagine that making the rear softer would make the car understeer more since putting in a thicker rear sway bar (hence making the rear firmer) improves turn in and makes it oversteer more. Am I right about that?

[vinnY]

we talking about the street or track?

I personally run 1/2 turn from soft on the front and same at the rear

[Mikecivic78]

Street and track really. I haven't had a chance to take it out on the track yet, I know that pro kit are made for the street but I want to give it a go @ Lakeside or QLD raceway.

I find one whole turn from soft front and rear quite acceptable on the street. I've tried 1 and a half turns from soft but it was a bit too much for Brisbane's crappy back streets.

[vinnY]

unfortunately no middle ground between street and track
just adjust it softer for street
firm it up if need be whilst at the track

[Mikecivic78]

On the track, should I dial them up to max firmness? Or slightly less?

[vinnY]

depends what the track demands
start from a reference point and move from there

[Mikecivic78]

Cheers mate. I'm still getting a feel for things, hopefully I'll work it out eventually.

[Mikecivic78]

vinny, just out of curiosity, what springs are you using with your Konis?

[p33r]

i think without any sway bars, the front should be left a little softer than the rear due to the slight understeer biased nature of our cars. I think mine's 0.25 turns from soft at front and 0.75 turns at rear. That's pretty soft but feels pretty balanced for what it is, you could go stiffer.

[vinnY]

I'm running a h&r sport cup kit with dc2r top hats
the springs appear to be somewhere in between the sport and race springs

[Mikecivic78]

Interesting. Is it true that H&R shocks are actually silver-painted Konis?

Could I ask why you are using DC2r tophats? Actually I don't even know what car you have. I was imagining an EK.

[vinnY]

yeah pretty much, made by koni for h&r is engraved into the side

dc2r top hats as they have a solid bushing compared to the rubber/washer combo of the normal ones

and yes ek hatch :)

[Mikecivic78]

Hmmm, maybe I should look into getting DC2R tophats. Maybe it might help with the creaking I'm getting at the front, or maybe not, I'm still deciding what to do about that. It's nothing major, so I've decided to leave it for the moment.

[vinnY]

yeah they probably won't, I just have them because I figure after changing every other bush why leave the top hat one
dc2r ones appear to be the toughest

[Mikecivic78]

ahhh, bushes. It's something that needs to be done on my car. I think worn bushes might be the source of the creaking.

I've noticed the rears have been done at some stage by the previous owner, but the fronts are still original.

Doeable DIY do you think, or nightmarish work?

[vinnY]

if your ek has one-piece front lca's then it's a nightmare, managed to press 2 on each out on my own but the third one I just took it to a shop
couldn't get the angle right

[EG30]

With the Koni damper settings, the adj range is non linear; I find the last 1/4 turn makes a huge difference in the rebound damping and that would cause jacking down problems ie the spring cant extend fast enough to give you the travel you need for the next bump. With full firm setting on my eg and on 7.5kg spring it was causing jacking down problem at the rear so if you have say 4-5kg spring I anything more than 1/2 turn from firm is a bit much.

Best to trial an error to your taste, and why not softening the damping one end at a time till it feels floaty and then wind it back up 1/4-1/2 turn.

[Mikecivic78]

With the Koni damper settings, the adj range is non linear; I find the last 1/4 turn makes a huge difference in the rebound damping and that would cause jacking down problems ie the spring cant extend fast enough to give you the travel you need for the next bump. With full firm setting on my eg and on 7.5kg spring it was causing jacking down problem at the rear so if you have say 4-5kg spring I anything more than 1/2 turn from firm is a bit much.

Best to trial an error to your taste, and why not softening the damping one end at a time till it feels floaty and then wind it back up 1/4-1/2 turn.
Cheers for the input. I have tried putting my Konis on 75% firm and (with Pro kit) it's too much. Bouncy as hell and unstable. Definitely the jacking down problem you have mentioned.

I've found that 50% (1 full turn) firm front and rear works the best for me ATM. I wound them back to 25% (1/2 turn) firm for a day, but found it a bit soft (is that what you mean by floaty?). Perhaps I should of gotten springs with more aggressive spring rates. Reason I got pro kit was for a modest drop as my driveway sucks.

I haven't, however, tried different settings front and rear.

@vinny, yes my EM1 has one-piece front LCAs. I guess when I finally get round to doing them, I'll do the doeable ones myself, and get a shop to do the hard ones.

[EK1.6LCIV]

full hard, perfect for anything

[EG30]

Cheers for the input. I have tried putting my Konis on 75% firm and (with Pro kit) it's too much. Bouncy as hell and unstable. Definitely the jacking down problem you have mentioned.

I've found that 50% (1 full turn) firm front and rear works the best for me ATM. I wound them back to 25% (1/2 turn) firm for a day, but found it a bit soft (is that what you mean by floaty?). Perhaps I should of gotten springs with more aggressive spring rates. Reason I got pro kit was for a modest drop as my driveway sucks.

I haven't, however, tried different settings front and rear.

@vinny, yes my EM1 has one-piece front LCAs. I guess when I finally get round to doing them, I'll do the doeable ones myself, and get a shop to do the hard ones.

My set of konis started off fitted on king low springs on my eg to start off with ( around 3.5kg front and 2.8kg rear from memory ), and the suspension left the dampers at full soft which really suited those springs at the time. I would imagine your Eibach Pro Kit wont be much firmer that the Kings being OE fitment designed to work well with a range of dampers incl stockies ( perhaps up to 4kg front or therabouts? ) hence your 75% firm previously felt way unsettling to the car and its occupants.

I later fitted Ground Control sleeves over the konis and tried various spring rates started off with 6kg/4kg which was too soft for track work and in its last config I had 600lb (10.7kg) front springs which was the max the koni yellows could cope without revalving. They worked great in competition events, I since changed to Tein Mono Flex expecting another step up but they were only marginally better in terms of performance and the ride wasnt as good ( still much better than the usual riceovers though ).

I had my Konis+GC lying around for a while and finally got around to fit them to our dc2r last week, and I'm going thru the same as you ie fine tuning the damping F+R. For the street I'm going to leave them 1/2 turns from firm F+R, any firmer the ride starts to get jiddery. At the point the car is far from unstable or unsettled over bumps or jacking down, but the stock SR3 seats are too soft over the fast rebound damping rates and the occupants really feel it. With firmer seats eg: bucket seats one can afford to go more agressive in damping without being bounced on top of the seat cushions; comfort and practicality/legality of the buckets however aren't for everyone.

I'm sure you'll find a setting that is the best compromise for you, and down the track there is always the option of fitting coilover sleeves on your konis.

[Mikecivic78]

I changed the damper settings again today.

I dialed down the front to half a turn from soft (rear is still one whole turn from soft) and the difference is quite good. The fronts had been too firm, it was bouncy and ability to corner was suffering. Now it feels like I have installed a thicker rear sway (I have CTR rear sway btw) and turn in and cornering stability has improved noticebly.

It's interesting to note that stock EK9s and DC2rs run the same spring rates front and rear 250lb for the CTR I believe. My pro kit rears (and many aftermarket springs) are much softer than the fronts. Why is this?

[liberx]

In short - probably to meet ride quality aims.

Type-R rates are quite unique with similar or equal Linear rate fronts and progressive rears. Normally in a FWD car you'd expect fronts to be much firmer rate (OEM) as that's where most the weight is to provide similar riding (comfort/control) properties front to rear.

As the Eibachs are progressive front and rear, this may be part of the reason they have a more standard bias. Also keep in mind that the aims of the engineers may be quite different too - Prokits are aimed at moderate drop, firmer than standard (non type-r) while maintaining good ride to be daily streetable. Majority of ride quality seems to be a function of the rear.

The Type-R engineer's brief was more along the lines of "Make it responsive, controllable, no understeer and to hell with the ride". Again this is unique, as usually the roles are the opposite between OEM and aftermarket.

Having said all that, I can't find any reference as to HOW spring rates are measured for progressive springs, as the rate changes under load (is it max, min, average or at static load for the vehicle???). The manufacturers probably prefer not to let on about these properties anyway for competitive advantage and all that...

[Alvis]

^ I'm not sure how spring rates are measured for progressive springs, but the below might help.

ALSO, does anyone have the rebound and compression data ie kg per force for KONI yellows?



----------------------------
For 96-00 Civics

Front (kgs/cm)~ Rear (kgs/cm)

96-00 EX 2.9~ 1.4
99-00 Si (EM1) 3.6~ 1.8
CTR 4.3~ 4.3
Spoon Progressive Lowering Springs 6.5~ 5.5

H&R OE 5.0~ 3.4
Eibach ProKit 5.2~ 3.4
H&R Sport 5.9~ 5.0
Eibach Sportline 5.5~ 4.9
Gold-line GL 5.7~ 3.4
Gold-line GPS 4.9~ 2.9
Koni RSK Suspension kit 2.75 - 3.66~ 4.8
Neuspeed SofSports 4.6~ 2.7
Neuspeed Sport 5.0~ 3.2
Neuspeed Race 8.7~ 7.1
Skunk Coilovers -old 7.1~ 5.4
Skunk2 Coilovers - new 8.9~ 7.1
Spoon Full Coilovers 5.4~ 4.3
Spoon Progress Coilovers 6.3~ 4.5
Spoon Progressive Lowering Springs 6.5~ 5.5
Ground Control Coilover 6.8~ 5.0
Tein RA/RE/RS 14.0~ 10.0
Tein HT 20.0~ 8.0
Tein HG 6.5~ 2.3 - 3.5
Tein SS 8.0~ 4.0
Tein Flex 9.0~ 5.0
Tein S. Tech 4.2~ 2.5
Tokico Illumina Kit 4.5~ 2.2
APEX'i WS 8.0~ 3.2
SSR Cup 7.0~ 5.0
SSR S1 8.0~ 8.0

http://www.ek9.org/forum/suspension/1335-ek4-springs-ek9.html