What is this 'HONDA LOCK' module?

[theforce]

Hi guys, first post. I've got a 98 EK CXi, manual. Have trouble turning ON the car. It just cranks. The attached picture is what I want to know about, because when the two connectors (1 from key barrel and other from engine/body harness I think) are not connected into this module, the car won't even crank.


* Located in the panel under the steering wheel


This happened after the old alarm was removed so new can be installed. The green key symbol does not flash on dash.

I think this module may have something to do with car not starting. One wire from the old alarm was connected to this module (the engine/body harness connector), which seemed to be ground wire. This tells me that the alarm needed a ground wire from this module.

Anyone got some info or pinouts or any suggestions??? I have managed to find out that this module is part of honda's factory immobiliser but need more info.

New alarm is on the way, which may fix the problem but I need to be sure.

Thanks



http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9928/dsc00679j.jpg (http://img823.imageshack.us/i/dsc00679j.jpg/)

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/2593/dsc00680wl.jpg (http://img33.imageshack.us/i/dsc00680wl.jpg/)

[bennjamin]

if you are keen and have half an idea - disconnect the battery and cut out all of the old alarm. You can tell what the old alarm wires are as they are alittle thicker and generally solid colour.You should be able to remove all the old alarm and simply cover up the exposed wires with even electrical tape etc. Done properly , and with the immobiliser unit plugged in ( as shown ) the car should start

[theforce]

This happened after the old alarm was removed so new can be installed. The green key symbol does not flash on dash.


Like I said, the old alarm has already been removed along with its wires. The car doesn't start as the old alarm has been completely removed and I suspect this module is the culprit, as I think the factory immobiliser is not letting the car start. That's why I remotely think that the new alarm will bypass the immobilizer (somehow), but I want to be sure.

[bennjamin]

whoops should of read properly. You still should be able to hook that module up and work. Whether this is a loose wire , or missing wiring cant say.
BTW the ecu needs to see both key + immob. unit - its up to your alarm guy to work this out ! (afaik you will need to runt he alarm as a "piggyback" on the existing immobiliser circuit)

[theforce]

whoops should of read properly. You still should be able to hook that module up and work. Whether this is a loose wire , or missing wiring cant say.
BTW the ecu needs to see both key + immob. unit - its up to your alarm guy to work this out ! (afaik you will need to runt he alarm as a "piggyback" on the existing immobiliser circuit)

That's what I'm thinking. The old alarm used a Ground wire from this module for some reason, so I'm guessing the alarm ECU somehow bypasses the immobilizer using this ground wire? That's why I need the pinouts for this module or any info so I can figure this out.

What else could it be? I've checked all fuses, connectors. The fuel pump primes upon ignition but there is no spark, which I'm assuming is controlled by the edu/immobilizer. How can you turn off the immobilizer? I read somewhere that if you Ground a particular wire in a relay, the immobilizer is bypassed? PFGM relay or something.

[bennjamin]

you could try a OBD2 SOHC ecu with the immob. removed....ECUMAN on this forum can do it for you otherwise if you know abit of soldering you can do it yourself

[theforce]

Ben, that sounds like a plan. I'm pretty good with soldering (build PCBs on a weekly basis). After the immobilizer chip/IC has been removed, how do we tackle the problem of bypassing the ignition barrel as there is a connector coming from the barrel to this module? since this module will become useless? Does ECU-MAN have a DIY on this?

Thanks for your help Ben.

[theforce]

so does anyone have any info on removing the immobiliser from ecu and bypassing the igniton?

[bennjamin]

Pretty sure its best to pm ECUMAN (john) about this - he removed the immob. On my old obd2 b18 ecu no troubles. Pretty sure there is a write up in our diy section in regards. Just search in the diy forum , under ECUMAN as the creator

[theforce]

Hey Guys, I cleaned up the wires and installed the alarm which still didn't start the car. So I followed ECU-MANs DIY on IMMO-A0 removal. On the back of ECU I couldn't find J20 so I ended up just removing the IMMO board. The car started fine and no CEL. But an hour later when I changed the oil and turned on the car, the CEL came up and won't go away. I tried shorting the wires in green connector near ECU with a pin, and the CEL disappears but when I remove the shorting pin it comes back on. This all happened on the saturday when this forum was getting fixed so I couldn't get in touch and wanted to start the car bad.

Car still turns on fine.

Does the EK Civic ecu have a J20? I found RP23 and RP24, but not J20.

Thanks guys

[flipfire]

So why was the immobilizer module removed with the old alarm?

Im told theres no need to remove it unless you want to use remote engine start on your alarm.

[theforce]

Old alarm was aftermarket item aswell and was getting replaced by a new one with more features etc. After alarm removal it wouldn't start (don't know why), so removed the Immobiliser board from ecu and car started fine but later CEL came on and won't go away.

[flipfire]

Have you checked which CEL code its throwing out?

[theforce]

I'm guessing the only way to check for error codes is to short the 2 wires in the green connector near the ECU? If so, when I do short the 2 wires the CEL disappears for good and when I remove the shorting pin, the CEL comes back on.

[vinnY]

that's weird, it should stay on when you short the pins

pull your neg terminal and see if the light comes on again
edit; pulling neg terminal will clear ecu codes(it won't clear abs/srs afaik)

once it comes back, turn it off and jump the two pins and check for an error number again

[theforce]

pull your neg terminal and see if the light comes on again


once it comes back, turn it off and jump the two pins and check for an error number again


I'm a little confused when you say remove the negative terminal and turn it off and jump pins? When I remove the -ve battery terminal or turn car off, will shorting work?

[vinnY]

oops should have clarified what I meant

pulling the neg terminal will reset the error codes
plug it back in and replicate the fault
then try jumping the pins and see if that gives you an error result

[theforce]

oh ok, I will remove the terminal now. Any lenght of time it has to be removed? or a few minutes ok?

[vinnY]

yeah 2-3 minutes and whack it back on, should be enough to clear codes

[flipfire]

Yeah a few minutes should do it, if it doesnt try pump the brake pedal a few times. If the time on your clock should reset.

[theforce]

did that still no joy. Going back to my original question, do I have to jump the two pins on the back of ecu and remove another surface mount to get rid of CEL as I've already removed the IMMO board from ECU. Perhaps ECU-MAN can shed some light on this?

[vinnY]

well you've got to find out what the error is first before removing random stuff

are you sure you're jumping the right pins? take a photo of the plug/pins you're jumping before doing anything else

[theforce]

I'll take a photo tomorrow. Pretty sure its the right connector. Near the ECU (passenger kick panel) there is a big green connector housing inside which is a 2-way and a 3-way connector. The 2-way has a orange and black wire, which is what I short.

[theforce]

Can someone please answer me this:

do I have to join J20 and RP23 and remove RP24 for CEL to disappear? The ECU does not have a J20 but has RP23 and RP24.

[theforce]

need to get rid of the CEL otherwise can't get car on road!

[flipfire]

Borrow an OBD reader from a mechanic or something.

[theforce]

I've got a OBD2 reader with me but was told these Honda's don't have the obd connector?

[ECU-MAN]

For the EK1 ECU you have to use my bypass modual to get rid of the CEL, EK1 ECU is different to the ECU in the DIY I made. Check the link below

Your ECU does not have any fault codes in it, theCEL stays on because you removed the IMMO-AO board

http://b16a2.kicks-ass.net/tech/immo/immo-bypass-006.jpg

[theforce]

For the EK1 ECU you have to use my bypass modual to get rid of the CEL, EK1 ECU is different to the ECU in the DIY I made. Check the link below

Your ECU does not have any fault codes in it, theCEL stays on because you removed the IMMO-AO board

http://b16a2.kicks-ass.net/tech/immo/immo-bypass-006.jpg

ECU-MAN - I have seen a bypass board at Doctronics website, do you sell the same? price? and will it work, lol?

[ECU-MAN]

My bypass board is my design and not the same as Doctronics, however they both give the same end result. PM me if your interested in one.

[theforce]

My bypass board is my design and not the same as Doctronics, however they both give the same end result. PM me if your interested in one.


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