worth turboing my D???

[cihanvtec]

okay, so ive done abit of research but im not satisfied and i need some help..
ive got a d16y1 on about 260xxx ks.. its serviced regurlary, and from the feel of the car, i gather that its a healthy engine.. however now and then it does take a thrashing..

i plan on upgrading when i finish my uni and start earning some real dosh, but for the time being i want more power and im ready to go ghetto on with it :P i just want to know if its worth doing?
i have a budget of about 2.5k.. is it possible to do it with this kind of cash? ive found many ebay kits for about 1k.. i know they dont compare to all the greddy nd peakboost kits, but are they bang for buck? i heard i can have my standard ecu reflashed by dr. drift for around $150.. is this possible or just a myth???

i found this on ebay... does that come with pretty much everything i need for a complete install??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120661076732&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:MOTORS:1123#ht_6277wt_964

also i plan on keeping all the stock internals cos im on a low ass budget.. how much gains can i expect with stock internals and an ebay kit??? also brakes etc.. do they need attention? i might upgrade fuel pump and injectors though ;)

im noob as when it comes to boost guys, so any information, anything u think is essential is gold for me and very much appreciated!!

thank,
G

[mugen_ctr]

very doable with that budget! But first off establish a tuner, than work from there... and what ecu they can tune the car on... every tuner will vary with prices and tuning... if a reflash is what ur after a Hondata S100 is the way to go, Status tuning are very reowned for there work, my mates cousin Turbo B18 was tuned there, made 220kw :O

Than theres also RE custom, they down graded to a smaller workshop, but Ray is still good at what he does, but again, talk to em about what can be done an not within a budget

Revzone charge to much ive found charge to much imho

Ebay turbo kits are usually hit and missed, some work mad, some fail, some aint all bolt on, than some will require minor/major mods to fit it, most will require u to weld on a fitting to the oil pan for oil drain... various ways to obtain oil pressure, through t-piecing the oil pressure unit or through using a sanwhich plate, or if ur extreme, drilling into the block lol...

Since its a ebay, it isnt water cooled, so need to worry about water lines

And i must stress, u will also need injectors (310cc minimum), and if need be a fuel pump, but im pretty sure the stock fuel pump is more than enuff for this level of mods/power

power gain will vary again, expect any where from 100 - 120kw, so dont have high hopes for massive power gains, brakes, do pads an ur fine, if drums, again shoes if not than get rear disk brake conversion

Clutch best to upgrade to hd to cope with the greater power, but a stock clutch should b fine if u dont dump it all the time

And before doin it, get a engine compression test, usually at this km, engines have lost quite some compression, a good number is around 180psi with 10-15 percent differential across all 4 pistons

[cihanvtec]

woww!!!! thanks mann!! u pretty much answered everything and way more!!! if i could rep, i would def rep you!!!!

i was told the stock ecu is what gets reflashed??? im guessing thats a no? now the welding on to alow oil drain is putting me off... is that a big jobb???

thanks again man, im still wrapped about the info u gave :D hahah

[Riced_Civic]

oil drain plug is like a 30 min job, if u know how to weld, if not just take it to sum1 who knows.

its such a small job they prob charge like $50

[dougie_504]

okay, so ive done abit of research but im not satisfied and i need some help..

...........

thank,
G

I'm sort of in the same boat. I work full time and have my head-built EF8 CRX but sometimes I just want to do a cheap turbo setup on my daily Civic for sh!ts and giggles. Also because I really want to try out a boosted car to see what the feeling's like - apparently addictive :)

I was looking at this setup (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/92-95-Honda-Civic-CRX-T3-T4-Turbo-Kit-D15-D16-D-Series-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3ca31288f3QQitemZ26043 3938675QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries#ht_4253wt_826) although there are at least 2-3 others out there. It would be great if we could find out who has tried which Ebay setups! I've heard that often the companies BS about the AR ratios of the turbo, and have also read in a magazine article that most Ebay turbos are built according to the design of two particular turbo models. First hand inspection before buying would be nice so you can inspect the proportions, turbine sizing, welds etc but no chance of that I guess...

So I've noticed most Ebay setups come with fuel pressure regulating kits/turbo timers (illegal btw), BOV's (illegal) etc etc ... but no fuel rail/injectors. Some come with boost/pressure/temp gauges but if not I'd strongly recommend getting one.

Also I'm personally not sure how well a regular HD clutch would hold up with 100-120KW. A regular SOHC D-series only makes like 65-75KW ATW so we're talking about quite a jump from standard - I have also heard from my mechanic that his friend's D16Y8 was making 100KW ATW turbo'd and the HD clutch was slipping so you might need something a bit tougher.


Otherwise please let me know how you go so I can keep thinking about it and possibly avoid your mistakes haha :D
Seriously I'm very interested...

[Riced_Civic]

ebay kits are alright, but its better to swap out the turbo and the manifold as they are the main components u dont want to fail.

timers arnt needed if u can drive normal for the last 5 to 10min of you trip ull be fine with out 1.
BOVs who needs 1 when u can save a sick dose, lols.
u dont need a fuel rail if ur stock 1 is fine, but u will need bigger injectors.

imo if u want to have the turbo just for fun for ur daily get a greedy kit its not that much more than an ebay kit and u get better parts.

[mugen_ctr]

me personally, i do want to do the conversion hopefully next year, once i sort out the suspension and brakes, theres a few ways i mite go...

1st. Ebay kit like u guys say, but replace the wastegate with a tial unit or turbo smart unit, and also note, most ebay kits external waste gate arnt designed to be plump back, so u will need to fab up a waste gate dump pipe to merge into the main dump pipe
2nd. Custom kit, run a internal gated T25 off a SR20 with the custom manifold (if there isnt a off the shelf manifold) and dump pipe, the rest will consist of ebay cooler intercooler kit, RC 450cc injectors and a Hondata S100 or if not a haltech piggy back... heard of a few negetive stuff about Greddys emanage so im standing clear of that!
3rd. Off the shelf 2nd hand kit, such as Greddy turbo kit and run a better ecu/piggy back than the greddy emanage

With custom, i know it will be more expensive, as some parts will definite need customizing, such as the dump pipe for the T25, as no one makes a dump pipe for that to fit in a civic d-series, and also the manifold, But also the time needed to fit and fab up will be long!

What will determined a good turbo kit is the tune as well, having a quality tune will lead to less headaches and problems arising in the future, yes parts will fail later on, but a good tune will always keep ur engine alive at the end of the day, the last thing u want is to blow the welds of ur floor pan LOL

If ur finding the clutch is slipping, its cause those HD clutch werent designed for the double power output but more so abusive nature of the car, the pressure plate is incorrect pressure to clamp down on the flywheel and engine power output and cant grip, than comes the issue of the sorta clutch plate/material used, remember although the power maybe be 100kw thats at the wheels, usually tuners will add another 15-20 percent ontop of the power made on the dyno to find a rough idea of the flywheel power... the actual power made will be from the flywheel, so more so 120kw

Once u hit around the 300hp figure if u do chase later on for bigger numbers, u will find urself that the car is alot slower than the other track cars out there, cause only one wheel be spinning, thats when u needa invest in a LSD, the only cheap alternative is the OBX lsd, half the price of a quaife's, but than again, comes the uncertainty of a ebay quality gear

[dougie_504]

ebay kits are alright, but its better to swap out the turbo and the manifold as they are the main components u dont want to fail.

timers arnt needed if u can drive normal for the last 5 to 10min of you trip ull be fine with out 1.
BOVs who needs 1 when u can save a sick dose, lols.
u dont need a fuel rail if ur stock 1 is fine, but u will need bigger injectors.

imo if u want to have the turbo just for fun for ur daily get a greedy kit its not that much more than an ebay kit and u get better parts.


So if an Ebay kit is $950-$1400 delivered (according to the four I looked at today) how much is a Greddy? I thought they were like $5g?

[mugen_ctr]

well give or take, 2-3k from usa, without shipping, but that comes with emanage, injectors an all to make it run, brand new, but from what ive seen, my mate has the kit, its a very basic kit, very heavy...i find that the quality isnt that great.. the only thing worth keeping is maybe the turbo, but other wise, its a cheap kit... but than again my mate got it for 1k all up 2nd hand lol....

Flaws ive found with the kit, the emanage system, dump pipe design is very restricted and of heavy cast iron, no intercooler kit, down pipe which is connected to dump pipe is too small, its only 2inch diameter and thats all i can think of... and oh no boost controller and bov, bov is essential to the longevity of it, my brothers S15 turbo is now whining slightly, when coming on boost... took his bov 3 yrs ago, now this problem is arising cause of it, surge is a bad thing, if any one says its good, think again, why does a race car have one than? why do all factory turbo cars of 90's, 00's, 10's have one?

But bang for buck, u cant really say no to it for a quick simple boost solution

[dougie_504]

This (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Greddy-TD04-Turbo-Kit-Civic-Ex-92-93-94-95-Emanage-JDM-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2c5b033c63QQitemZ19050 5499747QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries)is the only Greddy kit I can find for sale on the internet after a quick searh on Ebay. The Greddy site itself listed no kits for the 92-95 Civic, in fact only for the S2000.

For $1800 US + probably a few hundred shipping, no FMIC, no boost controller, no BOV and a handful of other issues that you've identified then TBH I wouldn't bother with it. If you can score an decent/functional Ebay turbo setup with BOV/FMIC/BstCnt etc for $1000-1400 delivered then all you need to source is injectors and an ECU + tune. Upgrading the backpipe, clutch and brakes are all things that would need addressing with the Greddy also.

So I don't think it's worth the extra $1000 or so when you still need those components addressed. If your Ebay turbo and manifold sucks then surely replacing those two parts won't be too pricey (let's say you go Nissan or Mitsubishi turbo + some other manifold).



Anyway just my opinion. Food for thought...

[honda_zivic]

greddy discontinue the kit for eg civics. its still on ebay every now and then.
i email the guy last year about shipping it here and it was about 2500 on da dot shipped here. so was thining about it all weeks then decided fk it i piece my own kit for that price with better parts.

also turbonetics kits are pretty good stuff they included. its only a tiny bit more than greddy kit. but has way more potential.


once u go boost u dont go back!

[honda_zivic]

also when u lookin at clutch upgrades, dont just determine the hp rating, its the torque rating u shud be lookin at.

torque breaks parts like drivetrain/gearboxes.

[cihanvtec]

what do you guys recomend i need that isnt included in the kitt???

[dougie_504]

ECU tune, larger injectors, tougher clutch, brake upgrade.

[honda_zivic]

what do you guys recomend i need that isnt included in the kitt???

1. 440cc injects
2. clutch
3. intercooler kit.
4.exhaust 2.5inch at least, but go 3 inch for future upgrades
5. best to go stand alone ecu but will cost u arm and leg and left nut
6. get it tuned by hi experince tuner that knows their honda's.

thats about it to get u boosting unless u want xtreme more power go and forged ur engine.

[dougie_504]

1. 440cc injects
2. clutch
3. intercooler kit.
4.exhaust 2.5inch at least, but go 3 inch for future upgrades
5. best to go stand alone ecu but will cost u arm and leg and left nut
6. get it tuned by hi experince tuner that knows their honda's.

thats about it to get u boosting unless u want xtreme more power go and forged ur engine.


It has a FMIC kit, but would you recommend buying a different IC anyway due to size/quality?

Also, would 60mm be an alright size for SOHC D-series running 6-10 PSI do you think?

What's the minimum injector size useable in your opinion, anything 440+ or is something like 390 or 275 manageable?

And clutch...make sure it can handle say...150nm torque at least?


genuine questions, not questioning your competence...
thanks!

[DC2-PWR]

It has a FMIC kit, but would you recommend buying a different IC anyway due to size/quality?

Also, would 60mm be an alright size for SOHC D-series running 6-10 PSI do you think?

What's the minimum injector size useable in your opinion, anything 440+ or is something like 390 or 275 manageable?

Never knew that it was this much job to get the d-series turbo going.

genuine questions, not questioning your competence...
thanks!

Clutch and flywheel like that, around 1.5k? ORC would handle it wouldnt it? or maybe 6puk

Never knew that it was this much job to get the d-series turbo going.

[honda_zivic]

It has a FMIC kit, but would you recommend buying a different IC anyway due to size/quality? i was talking about greddy kit, but wat are u talkin about greddy kit or ebay kit? greddy doesnt have a cooler. it has a loop pipe.

Also, would 60mm be an alright size for SOHC D-series running 6-10 PSI do you think? yes good enuf if ur talking about exhaust size.

What's the minimum injector size useable in your opinion, anything 440+ or is something like 390 or 275 manageable?
i would go 440cc but 390 and 275 is manageable. always leave room for upgrades.

And clutch...make sure it can handle say...150nm torque at least?
stage 1 clutch will do. boost will make more than 150nm.


genuine questions, not questioning your competence...
thanks!


also get a boost/vac gauge, it will tell u if u have leaks and stuff.
and oil pressure gauge, it will tell u wats going on,like exceeding oil press or loss of it
so u dont blow the seals.

[honda_zivic]

Clutch and flywheel like that, around 1.5k? ORC would handle it wouldnt it? or maybe 6puk

Never knew that it was this much job to get the d-series turbo going.

it is when everything adds up. i spent nearly closed to my market value of my car already. lol
and its not even completed also thats me doing all the labor n shit, so imagine workshop labor prices. btw i still need like 6-7k to finish it off.

[mugen_ctr]

Ebay and d series.org is ur friend, dont spend 1.5k for a clutch like orc, this isnt a mega power build, an orc dont do d series, and plz dont single out d series bein to hard to boost, every na to turbz is

60mm is fine, all tuners ive spoken to say 310cc smallest than 440cc recommended

[DC2-PWR]

it is when everything adds up. i spent nearly closed to my market value of my car already. lol
and its not even completed also thats me doing all the labor n shit, so imagine workshop labor prices. btw i still need like 6-7k to finish it off.

wtf.

Could've went K-series :p

[cihanvtec]

thanks for all the help and advice guys!! if i culd, id rep u all!!!
im very close to getting an ebay kit!! ill see far its gna get me :p haha
from what i know, the install is pretty much diy.. if i was to install everything, would it be drivable with the standard ecu for a week or so until i can get some more cash or is that a big no no?? ive got a mate who says he can do the install for me, apparently its pretty straight forward.. from what i gather, the hardest part is going to be the cpu, and guage wiring?? what should i be prepared for? thanks guys :)

[honda_zivic]

wtf.

Could've went K-series :p

lol, i know but fully built turbo d will get me 10s easy. i saw in the trading section k24 full swap for 5k , fuk me wud of bought it if i didn't already boosted this.:angel::(


thanks for all the help and advice guys!! if i culd, id rep u all!!!
im very close to getting an ebay kit!! ill see far its gna get me :p haha
from what i know, the install is pretty much diy.. if i was to install everything, would it be drivable with the standard ecu for a week or so until i can get some more cash or is that a big no no?? ive got a mate who says he can do the install for me, apparently its pretty straight forward.. from what i gather, the hardest part is going to be the cpu, and guage wiring?? what should i be prepared for? thanks guys :)

u can drive it on stock ecu as long as u stay in vacuum and not hit boost. well ( go very easy on throttle) but highly recomend u get base map chip tuned to ur specific setup so u can drive around safely.

installation is piss easy man, if u can use a screw driver u can do it.
with gauges there easy straight forward.
also depends wat ecu u use just get a hondata tbh plugs n play.
if u need help just pm me i still have pics of all my setup progress.

gather up sum tools/misc, u will need:
hack saw/grinder
socket set
screw drivers set
elctrical tape
soldering
anti seize rust penetration and wd-40
good quality metal clamps
gaskets
and many various stuffs.

[dougie_504]

i was talking about greddy kit, but wat are u talkin about greddy kit or ebay kit? greddy doesnt have a cooler. it has a loop pipe.
I was talking Ebay kit because I thought OP was referring to that when he said "what should I buy that isn't in THE kit" but yeah doesn't matter :)

yes good enuf if ur talking about exhaust size.
Sweet thanks

i would go 440cc but 390 and 275 is manageable. always leave room for upgrades.
I was just reading in Hot4's some bloke wrote an article on how to choose the flow rate of your injectors. I'll try to scan it later and post it up. Essentially according to the article a 275 setup would easily suffice provided you don't want to upgrade further. Open to opinion of course but I'll show you later - just food for thought.

stage 1 clutch will do. boost will make more than 150nm.
That's a relief, none of those mega-expensive ones lol

also get a boost/vac gauge, it will tell u if u have leaks and stuff.
and oil pressure gauge, it will tell u wats going on,like exceeding oil press or loss of it
so u dont blow the seals.
Again thanks




Clutch and flywheel like that, around 1.5k? ORC would handle it wouldnt it? or maybe 6puk

Never knew that it was this much job to get the d-series turbo going.

The good part is that it will go better than converting to a B-series. When I look at how much my B16A head build cost (full cams/valvetrain/intake etc) it's not worth it compared to going boost, nor is it worth converting to B-series rather than boosting a D.

Getting N/A power has proven to be quite expensive to me.

[cihanvtec]

thanks man, appreciate all the advice!!will definately hit u up for some help!!!! okay,
okay so im going to suss out a turbo kit, and hopefully be able to get the car running perfectly for around 2-2.5k.. :D

[dougie_504]

Kit + delivery, ECU + tune, injectors, brake upgrade of some sort and clutch. I would budget probably $3g if I were you mate, and $4g to be on the safe side :)

[Riced_Civic]

always over budget, incase something happens

[Lukezen27]

Read

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?79182-GReddy-Kit-D16Y1-SOHC-VTec-E-manage-Untuned-97.5WKW-Not-Bad!!&highlight=EG5+Greddy

Blown D16y1

Read

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?108143-New-Project-EG5-JDM-B16A2-Boost-%2856k-Modem-Warning%29