starter motor busted?

[vinnY]

start motor makes a tick sound when I hit the ignition

last time this happened, replaced the inside contacts and I was good to go again for the last 2-3 years

ran fine last night when I went to fill up
come this morning I go to start the car and get the dreaded tick again
pull the starter motor out and clean all contacts again, all seems okay

put it all back together, no go :(
hook the battery up to another car, battery terminals hit 13.8v and I try to start again, no go

with the car off, battery reads 12.6v
when trying to crank, dips down to 11.4v
with the car hooked up to life support, it stabilises at 13.8v
when trying to crank while on life support, it dips down to 12.5v

checked the connection from the start motor to the battery and I'm getting the same readings as if I were probing the terminals themselves so the connections solid

anyone have any more ideas I can try? getting pretty desperate here

[dwn_boi]

better pack a hammer with you whereever you go ^_^

I had same problem in my celica, it sucks lol that hammer was a life saver!

I'd just check the wreckers for one, they arn't that expensive there, just make sure you get a warrenty on it if your worried.

[WMD]

the hammer idea isnt a bad one.

try tapping on the starter motor with a hammer as it often will assist in freeing the flywheel enough to overcome the sticking drive (causes the ticking- sounds much the same as a dead battery).

If this does fix it however your starter motor is on its way out. They can be replaced or rebuilt. Rebuilt is usually cheaper unless you can source one from a wreckers etc

[vinnY]

yeah oddly enough I tried the hammer technique first, no go

[dwn_boi]

yea hammer was my choice on the celica as there was plenty of room but if its hard to get to try using a screw driver it works too ^_^

Starter motor is like a tick tick noise but battery is like tktktktktktkt O_o"

Lmfao

[dwn_boi]

yeah oddly enough I tried the hammer technique first, no go

is it manual or auto? sometimes if the hammer didnt work straight away I'd put it in nuetral and kinda rock the car back and forth and hit it after, also if i had another person handy I'd get them to try start the ignition while I smacked the starter motor

[vinnY]

yeah had the missus try starting the car while I attached a piece of wood and hammered that
cars moved a lot and no go unfortunately

[dwn_boi]

hmm, well I guess thats all you can really do, if its nt the battery and its only the tick tick noise it must be the starter, you might want to source one from the wreckers, try hontoys out in smithfield, they helpd me out a bunch ^_^

[dwn_boi]

86 - 90 Percival Rd, Smithfield, 2164
Sydney NSW

02 9729 4400

[WMD]

yeah oddly enough I tried the hammer technique first, no go

did you (or were you able to) give it a decent thump? a light tap can sometimes do it, but if its far gone then a larger one may be in order. Not sledge hammer mind you, just a half decent whack...

otherwise there is little else it can be if you have adequate charge and that noise. It would mean the solenoid is gone, in which case I think a replacement item (either wreckers, reconditioned or replacement new) is your best bet.

[bennjamin]

Check that the ground is securely plugged in. Dont forget
To disconnect the neg terminal before checking ANYTHING to do
With the starter !

[vinnY]

thanks nikki, will give them a buzz
wonder what the odds of having a b18c7 one in stock though, actually will any b series starter motor work?

wmd; seems the solenoids fine, just won't spin for some reason
did the same thing last time and I had to just replace the contacts where the plunger unit is and it was good to go for the last 3 years

benj; roger, though I already knew that ;)
there's a direction connection from the battery to the starter ladies and gentlemen, sparks will be had if it's not disconnected from the terminal first!

[vinnY]

just because I know everyone likes pics
this is the suspect dodgey plunger

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1763/plunger2.th.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1763/plunger2.jpg) http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/4402/plunger.th.jpg (http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/4402/plunger.jpg)

and of course, the relatively fresh contacts(supplied by toyota!)
http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/1701/contactsa.th.jpg (http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/1701/contactsa.jpg)

edit; success! found one from gsi_psi on the forums, picking it up this arvo
will see whether it fixes it or not

[vinnY]

okay so I installed the replacement starter motor, still just a loud tick :(

sounds like a loud relay tick. any ideas on where I should start checking?

[dorikin]

What car is it?

[vinnY]

ek with b18c7

[dorikin]

Have you tried bridging the starter motor terminals (12V to Solenoid) to see if it engages?

[vinnY]

sounds dangerous, how do I pull that off? :p

[dorikin]

Read Steps 3 - 5

http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/1272/44030376.jpg

[vinnY]

hang on I'm supposed to hold a piece of wire from the pos terminal to the little solenoid terminal post?
do I need a large gauge wire to do it?

[dorikin]

No, the Blk/Wht wire you pulled out the from the solenoid is the type of wire you need. The solenoid works as a switch, when its actuated by the ignition it connects the battery to the actual starter motor.

What this test does is bypass the ignition switch and relay to test the Starter Motor itself.

[vinnY]

^all good, pulled it off, same story though just a loud tick
sounds like the starter is hitting the flywheel but not doing anything else

[dorikin]

Remove the starter motor from the car and do these tests

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3552/92639242.jpg

[vinnY]

hm don't have the appropriate wires on hand to perform the tests

I'll check the ignition switch stuff first though

[dorikin]

I usually like to use jumper cables for these tests.

If you have power going to the BLK/WHT wire when cranking than there's no issues with your ignition switch/relay/fuses.

[vinnY]

well you were right, ignition is fine

I heard the starter motor catch and spin a bit but it stopped and just started to have single ticks again
it's as if it has enough juice to make the solenoid function but not enough juice to crank it over

getting a constant 12.72v off and it stops to about 11.3v on start now

so for the out of car tests, it's basically applying the neg terminal where the 12v line usually goes and touching the pos terminal to the starter solenoid to see if it makes the starter pinion pop out?

[vinnY]

wtf just did some testing and it appears my braided clutch line gets super hot while cranking
but it's not touching anything electrical related

[bennjamin]

wtf just did some testing and it appears my braided clutch line gets super hot while cranking
but it's not touching anything electrical related

Well it is directly connected to the slave cylinder which is connected to the gearbox which is connected to the starter ! So it IS part of the ground circuit.

[dorikin]

well you were right, ignition is fine

I heard the starter motor catch and spin a bit but it stopped and just started to have single ticks again
it's as if it has enough juice to make the solenoid function but not enough juice to crank it over

getting a constant 12.72v off and it stops to about 11.3v on start now

so for the out of car tests, it's basically applying the neg terminal where the 12v line usually goes and touching the pos terminal to the starter solenoid to see if it makes the starter pinion pop out?

No that's not right. For the Pull-in Coil Test, positive 12v goes to Solenoid switch and negative goes to the body of the starter motor and the solenoid ground.

Use this to help you:

http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/8223/starter.jpg


Also check the ground strap from the gearbox to the chassis is not loose, damaged or corroded.

[vinnY]

benj; I thought as much, but the thing is only the ss braided hose gets hot, the hard lines aren't affected
dori; ah thanks for that, will check it out when there's light again

all grounding locations seem to be secure, grounds all around seem to be clean and functional too so it's totally got me stumped

[Lukey]

if the plunger isnt staying out it could be the hold in coil?

[vinnY]

well it sounds like the gear comes out but doesn't spin

Actually I'd like to clarify that. The gear comes out and every now and then will give half a whir then retire to just ticking
This is all tested with the starter installed though, not out of the car

[vinnY]

so here's a development.. I test the starter solenoid signal cable.. there's continuity to the gearbox bellhousing/engine mount :(

[Jomsy]

Did you check the brushes in the starter aswell as the contacts, they would also cause it to click but not spin

[vinnY]

figured the whole cranking while hitting the starter motor's(tried two!) would eliminate that

just occurred to me, am I supposed to get continuity to ground at all with the starter motor solenoid wire?

[najdi]

U got voltage drop which has nothing to do with the starter but as for the starter remove it..connect a jumpstarter to it, neg goes on frame most likely a corner where the bolt goes n the pos on the bolt on the head where it usualky connects now expose to ends of a wire place 1 on the pos bolt n the other on the switch/connection/contact make sure u got ur foot on it this method inturn bridges it to see if the gear on the shaft engages or wat not..if u want send me a foto n il help

[vinnY]

^ will give it a shot tomorrow, in the middle of hooking up my alarm again(when it was done 4 years ago, rubbish job)

so just to recap..
1. pos terminal on normal place
2. neg terminal to starter housing I.e. leg with bolt hole
3. jump the 12v to the solenoid terminal

should spin up right?

[vinnY]

after much mucking about it's finally alive

ended up replacing ALL alarm wiring, replaced the negative terminal to chassis, ended up replacing the positive lug(clipped back all wires to expose new wire) and added another ground to my gearbox for a total of two

all this on the original starter motor
fires up immediately now

[Lukey]

i just pulled the contacts out of my starter motor and they are completely shagged to say the least.

[vinnY]

^ what brand is it? mitsuba(sp?) ones can be rebuilt while others can't

[Lukey]

the starter motor has a denso sticker/stamp thingo on it, but the contacts look like theyve been replaced before.

[fatboyz39]

Always thought it would be grounding issue.

[vinnY]

bad news, appears to be back again after working for about 4 days

I can verify push starting works though

[Lukey]

crappy iphone pic.

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/208514_10150492223405696_894625695_17922218_468516 8_n.jpg

[vinnY]

yep I got them bits from toyota, fixed the issues I had
now it's grounding which is my problem
fixed it up with a home made 4ga ground cable