Rear sway bar on EK1 - spin out/ going to far?

[Alvis]

Hi guys,

I'm considering a rear sway bar on my EK1 sedan, however I was reading this article below which got me a little worried.

Has anyone experienced a spin out by fitting a thicker rear sway bar?

Here is the article below:


Going Too far?

Most manufacturers of front-wheel drive cars keep the rear roll stiffness fairly soft. But if stiff rear sway bars are good for handling, why do they do this?

Too stiff a rear bar in a front-wheel drive will result in a much higher likelihood of a spin if you lift-off mid-corner. A soft rear bar also results in plenty of understeer – something which is good for safety in the averagely-driven commuter car. However, if you don’t go to extremes, it’s quite possible to gain better turn-in and much improved mid-corner balance with a bigger rear bar. (Or the installation of one where none previously existed!) You’ll also find that the car can be much better throttle-steered – back-off the throttle a little and the rear will come out gradually; get back on the power and the car will follow the cornering line.

The acid test is cornering on a wet road with a load in the back – you don’t want the rear so stiff that a slight throttle lift will cause the car to spin. But to get this effect in an otherwise standard car, you usually have to make a radical difference to rear sway bar size.

Note that a front-wheel drive with an over-stiff rear sway bar (or more correctly, too high a total rear roll stiffness) will feel great up to 8/10ths – turn-in will be sharp and the car will sit flat. But go that extra step and you can be bitten.

[kriZy]

I've upgraded from ek4 rear sway bar to ek9 rear sway bar.. i can't remember how much mm difference they are but ek9 is obviously bigger and never came close to spinning out on spirited mountain drives.

[Alvis]

ok sure, I was getting worried when I read that!

How about in the wet? Oh, and I saw your thread last night where you installed the ASR brace!

Is it worth the improvement going to EK9? I mean, I have no rsb on my EK1 atm... just hope the change isn't 'too' drastic...?

[mugen_ctr]

em1/ek4 rear 14mm vs ek9 22mm... also consider the front swaybar as well... i think most ek/ej run a 22mm up front, an general rule of thumb is to have more under steer than over steer, so really u would need atleast a Em1/ek4 26mm front swaybar if u were going to run a ek9 rear swaybar if u were worried about over steer, but im a firm believer that if u do spin out, u obviously havent learnt how to drive the car...

Im thinking of going a em1 front sway bar since i already have the 14mm rear in place, but i need more info on doing the swap, as both ej8 and em1 use a different style of endlinks on the fronts so yeah....

Go the 14mm rear sway bar, for the time being an save the cash for a asr+22mm later on, dont hold out on this, swaybars make a big difference to how any vehicles handle

Ive also got a 20mm whiteline rear swaybar that ive yet to fit, so im pretty keen on seeing how this will pair up with the ej8 22mm front sway

[Alvis]

Yeh, you're spot on - 22mm fsb on my EK1

I have no sway bar on the rear though - as opposed to EM1/EK4 which have 14mm on rear (still quite small compared to 22mm).

I've read you actually have to factor the sway bar effect to the power of 4:

For example, a sway bar might have a diameter of 22mm and you are considering changing it for one which is 26mm in diameter. 224 (22 x 22 x 22 x 22) give a stiffness factor of 234,256 units. The second bar’s stiffness is 264 which is 456,976. Divide one by the other and you can see that the second bar’s stiffness is almost twice (1.95 times) as high.
Source: http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Rear-Sway-Bars-Improving-FWD-Handling/A_2359/article.html


So, based on this, this is why I'm a little worried as to how it will handle by making such a drastic change to the setup of the car given it has no rear sway bar to start with! Help yikes!

[Riced_Civic]

i up graded my Ek1 to Ek9 rear and ek4 front they feel awesome. both are 22mm and i feel that i get more oversteer entering a corner but thats what i prefer when at the track.

imo if u dont want oversteer and want some thing more understeer get the Em1 rear sway bar. if u can live with the oversteer get the Ek9.

also you shouldnt be getting oversteer or understeer on the streets if u drive sensible, so it shouldnt be a problem with the Ek9 rsb, lols

[Alvis]

Thanks for the advice Riced_Civic and mugen_ctr :)

I don't do track work, so on the street it sounds like it would be fine... sometimes i like to take it for a spirited drive through some corners, so just don't want to change the car setup and regret it, but that gives me some more confidence knowing you've done something similar and are happy with your set up :)

So if I go EK4 on rear - then no need for ASR brace correct?

[mugen_ctr]

yeap, im running one atm, 14mm wont snap the rear subframe at all..... ek4/em1 are the same as any ek/ej, all same chassis, its only ek9 that has had the structural re-enforcement done to it, which has a thicker subframe to support 22mm or larger rear swaybars.... I personally think honda cheaped out heaps on the ek... the only thing really worth mentioning besides the engines is really the suspension given double wishbone design... other than that, u need quite a bit of mods to make it keep up with competitors

And if u do run ASR kit, u cant run a 14mm, as the brackets are too small as well as the bushes, as there only designed to run anything with 20mm or higher if im not mistaken

[Alvis]

Thanks man, appreciate it :)

Yeh, that's not the first time I've heard that - Honda were doing a fair bit of cost cutting during the late 90s and the EK was one of them. But at the time, I don't think there was any other manufacturer making an engine like the b-series with such a high output - it's only today 14 years on that the competition has caught up - not the fact Honda has been left behind IMO

But it's interesting to note that the other day I was reading an article that Honda actually made a loss on every Integra Type R they sold in the US (not sure about elsewhere). Honda believed it was so important for the image of the brand, which I agree with being in marketing, to have the Type R in their product range that they accepted they would make a loss on each unit sold (ie hand polishing the ports in the early models, tightening with a micrometer was all done by hand when they made the Integra at the start etc... after that they went to specialist machines).

I tell you what, no talk of that going on these days... but goes to show companies weren't ruled by bean counters like they are these days and they actually made decent cars.. well the R anyway :) ... and bits of the EK (sussy and engine lol) - the rest you had to rely on aftermarket Mugen, Spoon etc - so they would be happy LOL

So, I guess a 14mm rsb would be something I would have to order through Honda right if I go down that path?

And if so, do you just get the bar or is there any bushes with it normally you have to install as well?

[zeus_civic]

I have the 14mm RSB on my EK sedan. The change in handling wasn't drastic but the understeer was definitely reduced.

Just make sure the bar comes with the end links and D-brackets so you don't have to look for them separately if you buying 2nd hand. :)

[Alvis]

I have the 14mm RSB on my EK sedan. The change in handling wasn't drastic but the understeer was definitely reduced.

Just make sure the bar comes with the end links and D-brackets so you don't have to look for them separately if you buying 2nd hand. :)

Yah, another EK1 sedan lol :)

In your opinion - would you recommend the upgrade to 14mm as worthwhile or are you now thinking of going to a thicker bar?

[Alvis]

Ok, just been doing some more research and was hoping someone can confirm the below.

Scenario: If I go to a CTR rsb and want to maintain a 'balance' in the set-up of the car (ie not too much understeer and not too much oversteer) this would essentially mean I would have to upgrade to a CTR fsb. SO, given this scenario is the below correct in that in order to fit a CTR fsb I would also have to change the LCA's and front fork? QUOTE BELOW:

The Civic Type R and Civic Si front sway bars only work with the Civic Type R or Si LCAs. The LCA are thicker than all other EK Civic LCAs at the strut fork, so the fork will also need to be changed out.

Source: http://www.jdmuniverse.com/forums/view_ekswaybars.html

Interested to know your thoughts on this one...

[dougie_504]

Anecdotal evidence I've heard from a couple of friends who race Hondas is that upgrading the FSB gives you way too much oversteer and just feels like ass. To the extent that my friend with his track-dedicated Gen2 CRX took off his Whiteline FSB and took it to a wrecker and just asked them to swap it for an OEM one lol.

All you need is RSB from what I hear. I'm upgrading from 14mm RSB on my EH9 to ITR RSB (22mm or 23mm). And on my EF8 CRX I'll look into the ASR 24mm RSB. Also subframe braces.

[Riced_Civic]

Anecdotal evidence I've heard from a couple of friends who race Hondas is that upgrading the FSB gives you way too much oversteer and just feels like ass .

FSB?? u mean under steer???

[Alvis]

Oh really... wow I guess it really depends on what driving style you like but yeh, who would have thought that

How come you're upgrading to thicker rsb?

[Tai]

LArger front sway bar usually induces more understeer, not oversteer.

[Alvis]

Yep, think he must have meant understeer...

Anyone know about needing new front LCAs and forks for CTR fsb?

[mugen_ctr]

Yep, think he must have meant understeer...

Anyone know about needing new front LCAs and forks for CTR fsb?

Dont not pay 300-400 for ek9, waste of money, get Em1, same size as ek9, infact there both the same deal 26mm fronts... And i too wanna know if i have to swap my LCA to run Em1 Front swaybars, as on the diagrams they are to differnt setups as said... cheers

[Whiteline]

Hi guys,

Yes Larger front induces more understeer.

We do a front bar but it is to pair with the rear we have and then keeps the nuetral balance.A front on its own would probably be nothing but understeer.

Here is a link to all the parts we do http://www.whiteline.com.au/do_segue.php?make=Honda&model=Civic&

[mugen_ctr]

And also if u were to go that route, u would need to swap out ur LCA, Shock forks and bushes an brackets, with the Em1 units from what i read.... So all that trouble for 26mm on a daily? seems a bit too much, honestly, stick to front oem swaybars i reckon... I was considering the em1 swap sway bar, but now im not soo sure..... if u have 22mm front and rear, that might have a drastic effect on how it turns in as such, mayb f:22mm and r:20mm will be better suited

[Alvis]

Hi guys,

Yes Larger front induces more understeer.

We do a front bar but it is to pair with the rear we have and then keeps the nuetral balance.A front on its own would probably be nothing but understeer.

Here is a link to all the parts we do http://www.whiteline.com.au/do_segue.php?make=Honda&model=Civic&

Thanks Whiteline, good to know :)


And also if u were to go that route, u would need to swap out ur LCA, Shock forks and bushes an brackets, with the Em1 units from what i read.... So all that trouble for 26mm on a daily? seems a bit too much, honestly, stick to front oem swaybars i reckon... I was considering the em1 swap sway bar, but now im not soo sure..... if u have 22mm front and rear, that might have a drastic effect on how it turns in as such, mayb f:22mm and r:20mm will be better suited

Yeh man I hear you, I don't think it's worth it either doing all the work and yep, for a daily, bang for buck it's not worth it...

That's kinda why I was worried about fitting the 22mm at the rear, because most likely I would then have to do the front to have a more neutral balance... I think EK4 14mm on the rear could be the right size for my application :)

In saying that, I got some quotes from Honda this morning - and damn it's not cheap!

The first bloke I spoke to gave me the most expensive friggin price you could think ok - found out the asshole was quoting me the daily/urgent rate and telling me a 2 week delivery time. THEN, I rang back because the prices just seemed ludicrous and I spoke to the Group Parts Manager this time, who I'd dealt with once before, and he said when you order parts we can either charge you the daily/urgent price or the stock order rate - this is what you want if you ever order parts - ask for the stock order rate because it's on average 35% cheaper from what the other dic*head charged me! How ridiculous is that...

Anyway quote is as follows:

EK4 rear sway bar $193.00
D bracket x 2 $ 10.40
Bushes x 2 $ 14.80
Lock bolts x 2 $ 10.21
End links x 2 $ 276.00 :eek:
Mounting brackets x 2 $ 35.20
4 x bolts $ 7.00
4 x bolts $ 3.60

TOTAL $523.90

Can anyone tell me in true honesty why the endlinks are so expensive - I priced up some Hardrace ones (I think that's the brand) at about $90 for the two!

[mugen_ctr]

hahahahahahha stupid pricing.... i picked up my 2ndhand 14mm swaybar with ebay end links (new) all up for 100, best bang for buck mod..... for that price u could gotten a new ASR kit with swaybars LOL

[Alvis]

yeh sounds a bit steep to me - don't worry I haven't ordered it... just a quote :)

I'll have to do some searching I think... imagine how much if they didn't take the 35% off... no idea how Honda justifies its pricing... really don't. Even they told me that too.

Thanks man, I'll have a search around and see what I can find :)

[mugen_ctr]

yea best advice is to keep looking, they pop up every now an than, not common though.... If u cant find one, maybe in the next month, hopefully ill have the white line one in and ill ship up my 14mm rear swaybar with everything, nuts bolts and mounting plates :)

[Alvis]

oh nice! thanks man - well if it all works out with the whiteline just let me know how much you want and sounds like we might have a deal! :)

you still need an answer on those CTR LSA's and forks tho... well according to that website link I referenced on page 1 looks like you do, so that's all I could find atm unless someone here knows more...

The Civic Type R and Civic Si front sway bars only work with the Civic Type R or Si LCAs. The LCA are thicker than all other EK Civic LCAs at the strut fork, so the fork will also need to be changed out.

Source: http://www.jdmuniverse.com/forums/view_ekswaybars.html

[mugen_ctr]

Yeah, Its just the forks thats im not so sure... id rather jus use my old ones than swapping to em1, but i fear we will have to, as ek/ej have different lca to em1 :(

[zeus_civic]

Yah, another EK1 sedan lol :)

In your opinion - would you recommend the upgrade to 14mm as worthwhile or are you now thinking of going to a thicker bar?

I got a white one too :D...

IMO if you are planning to stick with the D16 and no track work then the 14mm is enough. It's worth while only if you can get it cheap enough. $100-150 for the whole RSB assembly is what you expect to pay these days. I got mine quite a few years ago for $150 including endlinks, D brackets and bolts. Happy hunting :)

[mugen_ctr]

Yeah totally agree, a ASR kit with CTR is a bit over kill on a daily car.. 14mm is pretty much spot on

jus letting u know, i will hopefully be getting a em1 26mm front sway bar, lca, an what ever else to make it bolt up so i shall see how this goes :D

first the rear brake conversion now the em1 front sway bar... shoulda brought a em1 from the start LOL

[Alvis]

Yeah totally agree, a ASR kit with CTR is a bit over kill on a daily car.. 14mm is pretty much spot on

jus letting u know, i will hopefully be getting a em1 26mm front sway bar, lca, an what ever else to make it bolt up so i shall see how this goes :D

first the rear brake conversion now the em1 front sway bar... shoulda brought a em1 from the start LOL

LOL - funny how you think that after you bought it - but hey, at least it gives you something to do and you can make it your own and be proud of your work... I mean seriously how long did it take you to get those rear brakes of LMAO lol :D but at least you can say you done it and be proud of it

I wish I had a b series too, but just make the best of it that I can :)



I got a white one too :D...

IMO if you are planning to stick with the D16 and no track work then the 14mm is enough. It's worth while only if you can get it cheap enough. $100-150 for the whole RSB assembly is what you expect to pay these days. I got mine quite a few years ago for $150 including endlinks, D brackets and bolts. Happy hunting :)

I think you're right guys - thanks zeus_civic - and great to hear another white ek sedan out there ;)

From the sounds of it, and the fact I don't want to go overkill, I think 14mm is more than enough for my application.



The prices from Honda tho are really extortion - I can buy an EK9 rear sway bar kit, with ASR brace from JDM Concept for $335 - and they want $500+ for a 14mm rsb. Seriously, who are these guys kidding honestly...

I'd like to know how much commission they work off, parts don't cost that much if an online store can sell it for $335, especially given the strength of the dollar they should be cheaper if anything.

Oh well, appreciate all your help fellas - been a very informative and useful thread for me :)

Keep you updated on how I go!

[kriZy]

ok sure, I was getting worried when I read that!

How about in the wet? Oh, and I saw your thread last night where you installed the ASR brace!

Is it worth the improvement going to EK9? I mean, I have no rsb on my EK1 atm... just hope the change isn't 'too' drastic...?

It is fine in the wet. Mind you the ek4 front sway bar is the exact same mm as ek9. So if you get an ek4 FSB + ek9 RSB and an ASR brace to support the subframe. That is an awesome combo! After I upgraded to the ek9 RSB with the asr brace I noticed a huge dramatic difference and could push harder and the handling was more predictable. It is abit pricey to have the asr + ek9 RSB but I think it is so worth it. It's like going from stock springs + shocks to coilovers. There's a big difference there.

Depending on how Ur tyres handle it is fine in the wet. I had ok tyres firenzas to be specific which is ok for 1 track day and daily street driving and handled Well in the wet spirited drives at the mountains. If u had re001s or something better it would be even better in the wet!!

[mugen_ctr]

hahahahaha yea i get bored at home, an since i dont go out much these days, tend to touch the car, even when its perfecty fine LOL i do hope to track the car some time soon, an i do love the occasional spirited driving, hence why im goin with the em1 front swaybar conversion, atm its all about sorting out the basics....

[Alvis]

hahahahaha yea i get bored at home, an since i dont go out much these days, tend to touch the car, even when its perfecty fine LOL i do hope to track the car some time soon, an i do love the occasional spirited driving, hence why im goin with the em1 front swaybar conversion, atm its all about sorting out the basics....

yeh man you should check out this website - just came across it - looks like they do some pretty good deals on Honda OEM parts

http://www.hondapartsnow.com/

[mugen_ctr]

really good find man :D
must book mark there website.... do they ship out to aust? if only we had something like that here :(

[Alvis]

It is fine in the wet. Mind you the ek4 front sway bar is the exact same mm as ek9. So if you get an ek4 FSB + ek9 RSB and an ASR brace to support the subframe. That is an awesome combo! After I upgraded to the ek9 RSB with the asr brace I noticed a huge dramatic difference and could push harder and the handling was more predictable. It is abit pricey to have the asr + ek9 RSB but I think it is so worth it. It's like going from stock springs + shocks to coilovers. There's a big difference there.

Depending on how Ur tyres handle it is fine in the wet. I had ok tyres firenzas to be specific which is ok for 1 track day and daily street driving and handled Well in the wet spirited drives at the mountains. If u had re001s or something better it would be even better in the wet!!

Yeh, you're definitely right - you need a good pair of tyres or else what's the point - I mean you have to remember the tyres are the only thing between you and the road so if you're not willing to invest in a good set you may as well throw your other mods out the window lol

But sounds you've got a sweet ride set up ;)

I guess money comes into it, and if I have to replace the front LCA, forks etc etc it's not going to end up cheap as you can see by the below AND this is a pretty good website by the way - has the full factory diagrams listed and everything!! Check it out!

http://www.hondapartsnow.com/honda-civic-parts.html


And here you can kind of work out how much it will cost on top of the rsb:

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m579/apalmucci/Post%20Misc%20Honda%20Images/lca.jpg


And here is the diagram Honda sent me this morning of the rear suspension set up of an EK4 - just as an FYI reference in case you ever need to refer to it for some reason :)

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m579/apalmucci/Post%20Misc%20Honda%20Images/untitled.jpg

[Alvis]

really good find man :D
must book mark there website.... do they ship out to aust? if only we had something like that here :(

bummer man - looks like you'll need to have a contact in the States... yeh, we definitely should have something like that set up in Oz

9. Q: Can you ship to my country?

A: We only ship to the 50 United States.

Doh :( http://www.hondapartsnow.com/service/honda~parts~faq.html#9

[vinnY]

don't be too worried about spinning out if you're just driving on the street

only be worried if you're not going street speeds ;)

[Alvis]

Just to clarify before I go ahead with anything:

IF
I fit an EK4/EM1 14mm rsb (keeping in mind the EK1 didn't come with a rsb)
AND +
combine that with the stock EK1 22mm stock fsb
= IN REALITY
I would technially be inducing more oversteer - correct?


SO, if I wanted the car to handle similar to an EK4/EM1 I would then have to upgrade the fsb which would involve the additional cost of nsw lca's and front forks - also correct?

[mugen_ctr]

in theory yes, but even when i have pushed my car on the twisty rds, it seems the back end seems a bit too loose at times...

And yes, to have similar handling characteristics, u do need both the 26mm front and 14mm rear, than if u were to go ek9, since u already got springs, all u will need is the ek9 rear swaybar + ASR and upgrade ur dampers

Remember every driver has different personal suspension preference, it all comes down to how u prefer it to handle, some like the oversteer nature, some prefer a safer option and induce understeer, but as said, its better to understeer than snap oversteer, ive learnt that from my brothers 200sx, scary stuff LOL

My new goal is to out run my mates new skyline R33 on the track now hahahhahaa, time to get more research into suspension done :D

[Alvis]

Yep. 2 key lessons from this thread:

i) no one part works in isolation and it all comes down to the combination of all the elements as to how your car will handle (shocks, springs, tower bars etc)

ii) depends on personal preference how you want the car to handle

I guess the one thing I'm missing atm to complete the puzzle of how my car handles without a rsb is upgraded shocks.

In saying that I have pushed it through a few corners and the understeer is really not that bad at all for street speeds, powers through quite nicely for d-series power anyway (I'm sure track would be different), so the tower bar and springs really have improved it, I guess now it's a question of how far I want to take it with rsb and fsb.

Well, I might head down to the wreckers next week with my day off (YAH :)) and check out if there are any EK4 or EM1's (unlikely lol) in the yard.

Anyone know what size spanners ratchets etc you need to remove bolts from an rsb (I guess I could find out from Honda if no one knows off the top of their heads...)?

[dougie_504]

FSB?? u mean under steer???

Yep, that's what I meant to write, ta.

[dougie_504]

Yeh, you're spot on - 22mm fsb on my EK1

I have no sway bar on the rear though - as opposed to EM1/EK4 which have 14mm on rear (still quite small compared to 22mm).

I've read you actually have to factor the sway bar effect to the power of 4:

For example, a sway bar might have a diameter of 22mm and you are considering changing it for one which is 26mm in diameter. 224 (22 x 22 x 22 x 22) give a stiffness factor of 234,256 units. The second bar’s stiffness is 264 which is 456,976. Divide one by the other and you can see that the second bar’s stiffness is almost twice (1.95 times) as high.
Source: http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Rear-Sway-Bars-Improving-FWD-Handling/A_2359/article.html


So, based on this, this is why I'm a little worried as to how it will handle by making such a drastic change to the setup of the car given it has no rear sway bar to start with! Help yikes!


I did the maths on this the other day (for my plans).


So if I change my EH9 (VTi) standard rear sway bar from 14mm to an ITR 23mm RSB then the figures are:

14 x 14 x 14 x 14 = 38,416
23 x 23 x 23 x 23 = 279,841

So my new setup would have a 'stiffness' rating of about 7.28 times that of my OEM setup? Ouch! I now understand the need for a subframe brace!

[Alvis]

heebee jeebies! LOL 7.28 times!

It's a good little formula which puts things into perspective! :)

[dougie_504]

heebee jeebies! LOL 7.28 times!

It's a good little formula which puts things into perspective! :)


Yeah man, it's an exponential growth obviously. I was quite shocked when I did the numbers and had to re-check like 3 times! Will certainly go with subframe brace rather just a reinforcement kit.

[mugen_ctr]

well hopefully sometime this week ill getting the ASR subframe brace :D But i had no luck in finding D bracket's, an i really dont wanna settle for getting a ek9 CTR swaybar as well... since i got the 20mm whiteline one already :/

The last part of the puzzle.... D brackets to hold the bushes :(

[dougie_504]

well hopefully sometime this week ill getting the ASR subframe brace :D But i had no luck in finding D bracket's, an i really dont wanna settle for getting a ek9 CTR swaybar as well... since i got the 20mm whiteline one already :/

The last part of the puzzle.... D brackets to hold the bushes :(


In that case if I were you I would check out the ASR website and consider their subframe brace + RSB package. About $389 + shipping. I'll probably get one for my EF8, but since I already bought an ITR RSB for my Civic I'll probably consider a Blackworks Racing subframe brace ($235 new) as opposed to the more expensive F7 and ASR options.

[mugen_ctr]

i already brought the subframe for a steal lol, its just the mounting of the swaybar thats the hassle, most likey ill get custom brackets made up.... but Dont touch black works racing... ive been reading about there company, just another off the shelf egay company, i too was gonna buy the Blackworksracing gear, after much much research, seems no one, has ever installed one and given feed back, so im veryyyy skeptical about there product, its worse with there coilovers, lets just say they claim something without proving it, they claim to provide shock dynos, nothing ever came up... and bad customer service as well as product... im not saying there a bad company to say, im just taking this from some one elses word of mouth

[Riced_Civic]

y get D brackets made up when u can get them from bursons for $30

[Alvis]

In that case if I were you I would check out the ASR website and consider their subframe brace + RSB package. About $389 + shipping. I'll probably get one for my EF8, but since I already bought an ITR RSB for my Civic I'll probably consider a Blackworks Racing subframe brace ($235 new) as opposed to the more expensive F7 and ASR options.

I'm almost starting to think if I was to fit a 22mm ASR rsb and brace combined with the 22mm fsb (stock), while it may induce a 'little' more oversteer but might make the car more neutral than say putting an EK4 14mm on the rear (might be more understeery..)

Questions:
i) Does anyone know if I would need new lcas, or any other upgraded parts on the EK1 rear to fit the 22mm ASR rsb?

ii) Do you have the link to the ASR website - I've searched Google and forums but can't find it - so strange...!?

Thanks! :)

[Tai]

Your stock EK1 rear lca will be able to fit swaybars on it.

Just gotta make sure you have all the right bolts and nuts.

[Alvis]

Your stock EK1 rear lca will be able to fit swaybars on it.

Just gotta make sure you have all the right bolts and nuts.

Thanks Tai,

Yep exactly, need to have the right length bolts as well, but if it all comes in a kit should be ok :)

Puts Honda's $500+ EK4 rsb to shame that's for sure... from what I read ASR is a very reputable brand without the bling of Beaks.

I was even reading guys in the US have had Beaks sub frames tear out but no reports on ASR doing this.

[vtecing]

I have spun several times in my old type r. 4 different tyres didnt help but yeah, stiff rsb will make any car lift off oversteer

[kriZy]

I was even reading guys in the US have had Beaks sub frames tear out but no reports on ASR doing this.
Same here

[Alvis]

I have spun several times in my old type r. 4 different tyres didnt help but yeah, stiff rsb will make any car lift off oversteer

jeepers - were you on the road or track?

And what was your setup in terms of sway bars f+r thickness, suspension, shocks, tyre size and strut bars?

[vtecing]

jeepers - were you on the road or track?

And what was your setup in terms of sway bars f+r thickness, suspension, shocks, tyre size and strut bars?

suspension was stock. Both times were from lift off oversteer. First time it happend I was vtecing hard up a steep hill and as it came to a crest it leveled out and turned at the same time and because my interior was stripped there was no weight in the back end so the chassis lifted as the weight shifted, it spun around on me 180 degrees and I paralel parked about 3 inches away from the gutter. My girlfriend was in the car I was over taking and she was horrified and the guy that was in my car thort it was awesome and wanted to do it again... Funily enough just moments ago he was asking if we had hit vtec yet and I told him, you will know when we hit vtec lolz.

Second time It happend was when I was taking a guy for a test drive as he was interested in purchasing the car. He thort it was cool, his dad did not. I suspect it happend on this occasion because of tyre shine and the tyre rolled under the rim enough for the silicone to come in contact with the tarmac.

Lift off oversteer can be dangerous and scary if your not expecting it, but once you learn how to balance a car and drive smoothly it is a rare occurance unless invoked intentionally.


http://i51.tinypic.com/2lbgjcz.jpg

[Alvis]

wow - thanks for sharing your experiences vtecing, sounds like it can bite you in the arse if you're not careful... did he end up buying the car lol? ;)

What thickness rsb were you running - and did you have a fsb as well?

[mugen_ctr]

beaks isnt a true subframe ive seen pictures of beaks tear out, not pretty, the only true subframes are ASR and Function 7, both been proven to work, Whiteline im not so sure, as it doesnt have the back plate support like the asr or function7, but prove me wrong...

[vtecing]

wow - thanks for sharing your experiences vtecing, sounds like it can bite you in the arse if you're not careful... did he end up buying the car lol? ;)

What thickness rsb were you running - and did you have a fsb as well?

Sussy was stock, so 22mm rsb. Dc2r has a beefed up rear subframe with 3 extra braces in the rear alone (all factory eqipment). The asr is actually mimicing the rear subframe of a dc2r

[Alvis]

Just reviving this thread.

If you guys need parts check out this site. All you need to do is set yourself up with a US shipping address.

According to Honda in Wollongong (don't know if anyone else can confirm), but parts are no longer available for the EK4/EM1 rsb except the self-locking nuts, everything else came up on the computer as no longer available when searching the Australian parts database. And the US prices on this site are around 3 times cheaper, compared to what Honda would charge you, if they could get the parts.

For complete rsb setup, including the bar, it cost about $300 delivered to my door. And it's all OEM/ brand new.

I'm sure there are other parts on there too...

http://www.hondapartscheap.com/parts-catalog/honda/civic-coupe/1999/si/5-speed-manual/chassis/rear-lower-arm

[Alvis]

Brand new EM1 rear sway bar (bought from the US) finally installed!

The first two things I noticed after my test drive given the existing suspension/chassis mods are:

1. Front end is much more sharp and pointed in the corners eliminating the vagueness that it used to have

2. The more uneven or bumpy the road, the more feedback you get through the car so a little more bumpy - not sure if pitching is the right word

3. Handling in incredibly neutral which was my goal - no under or oversteer when pushing through the few corners I had a chance to - for a 4 door sedan it feels like a go-cart

4. Extremely happy with the result!

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m579/apalmucci/My%20Civic/FEC19F12-4E15-4029-8715-F3D262798057_zpsccw3z53s.jpg (http://s1132.photobucket.com/user/apalmucci/media/My%20Civic/FEC19F12-4E15-4029-8715-F3D262798057_zpsccw3z53s.jpg.html)


http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m579/apalmucci/My%20Civic/B9FB1C60-A5F4-4EFB-8C55-F3C8F9258A18_zpsfugptsrp.jpg (http://s1132.photobucket.com/user/apalmucci/media/My%20Civic/B9FB1C60-A5F4-4EFB-8C55-F3C8F9258A18_zpsfugptsrp.jpg.html)