dont know what engine to go for..

[cihanvtec]

hey guys, i cant decide whether i should go for a b16a2 or a b18c2.. was going to go for a jdm b18c, but it was pushing my budget.. ive got around 4k to play with. how much should i expect to pay for each of these swaps assuming the car they are going into is an efi eg..

is it worth doing any of these swaps? or is the b18cr only really worth it? what type of cars can i expect to keep up with, with a b16 or vtir b18. (just to make it clear, im not a street racer or anything, i just want to put it into context and get an idea compared to other cars)

[mugen_ctr]

go B18 route, more displacement = more power/torque and everyday driving is much better, u can keep up with traffic without revving it lol, b16 feel very similar to d16 down low, but power, 160hp is quite a match for any eg/eh shell....

[davidvtec]

^as above

[Vvvtec]

B18c hands down without a doubt. Especially in the eg, you'll absolutely love the torque.

[Frosty-Civic]

b16a, for the loud cross over :D

[MWAKU]

ive always thought of it like this...

the b16a came in a eg6.. stock.. and so as an EK4... and this are quick..... but are still came in stock, so they aren't incredibley fast

if ur going to do a conversion, might as well do the b18c2... better for its worth? and if u were deciding b18c7/b18c, u can always slap on a pr3 head later on down the track.

i dont know, would u rather convert your car, to another stock car, or convert your car to something that doesn't belong in that shell?

[Vvvtec]

i dont know, would u rather convert your car, to another stock car, or convert your car to something that doesn't belong in that shell, but begs to belong there?

Fixed ;)

[.k.]

get the best of both worlds. b18c2 motor and b16 gearbox :D

[eren]

B18c7 For Sure :D

[mugen_ctr]

hahahahaha... well that can be said for alot of cars out there, honda or no honda.... AE86 with rotary anyone??? lol.... But it really comes down to how u view it i guess... given the budget, as its just the engine swap and no actual suspension, brakes or chassis mods, it will never compare to a real R badge car, given the money, id say go for a half cut, that way u get everything to make it work as a whole

Its one thing to have a Type-R engine, another to make it as good or better than a Type-R

[grifty]

B18c7 For Sure :D

did u even read what he posted? he said he can only afford up to 4k.....

B18c2 would be good but you gotta consider upgrading the brakes.

are you going to be doing the conversion or a workshop?

[cihanvtec]

thanks for all the feedback guys.. im thinking b18c2 at the moment, but im gna be missing the nice crossover :(
in terms of budget, from the research ive done, ive gathered that both the b16a and b18c2 are roughly the same price??? correct me if im wrong. if i was to pay for labour, what should i expect to pay?



get the best of both worlds. b18c2 motor and b16 gearbox

is this possible? arent the gear ratios different? would this enhance the cars performance and would it require a tune to accomodate the b16 gearbox on a b18 engine??

appreciate the help guys :)

[cihanvtec]

B18c2 would be good but you gotta consider upgrading the brakes.

are you going to be doing the conversion or a workshop?


yeah will definatrely upgrade the brakes.. will most likely go vtir integra breaks. not to sure about thr conversion yet, i would love to do it myself,but i have no experience and i only have a few basic tools to do little things.. havent decided yet, but ill most likely be looking at getting it done professionally.

[mrmango]

i was in this situation (also had 4k) and i got myself a B18c2 and a 5 stud :) stud isnt on.
but the motor is in and im loving it :) ive also owned a EG B16A,but this B18c2 is much faster consideriing my car is stock apart from CAI.

if you can find a B18c2 go for it :)

[MWAKU]

the b series gearboxes are interchangeable. ofc the gear ratios are different, which is why u'd probably wanna swap it. if ur going turbo keep the c2 gearbox

[babiiiiiiiiiii]

b18c all the way , put in this way, built b16a only just keep up with b18c, and its way over ur 4k if u chosen b16 in the first place, so more likely save a bit more might be all you need is 1k cash on top make it 5k then i believe someone in here will let go their b18c for you , and all you need is a bit here and there and labour then you get a b18c swap eg , and resell also better then b16a, even tho a built b16a wont go over 7-8k trust me

[cihanvtec]

ive done abit of research on the b16 gearbox going on a b18 engine.. so the shorter ratios allow the car to sprint a little quicker?? i read somewhere that even earlier model type rs had a gear ratio of something like 4.4.. 98+ model type rs adopted the 4.7.. so the pre 98 itr ratios were closer to the b16?? very interesting if its true..

so im pretty convinced on going with the b16 gearbox, just need to find an engine to go with it. can this be done with 4k?? i dont want to be wasting an everyones time if 4k isnt enough.. ill start a new thread when i get more cash otherwise XD haha

[dougie_504]

Forget about messing around with GBox's IMO. If you're going to get a GBox get a B18C7 or JDM B18C box. Isn't such a big deal for what you want out of the car.

For $4000 try to get a B18C2 full conversion with the standard GBox included (does the job fine seriously). Might pick it up for around $2500 or so, put aside $500 for mounts, another $1000 for labour minimum, and then consider that you might need another $500-1000 for fluids/other issues that arise.

[dougie_504]

@OP: I thought you were going to try an Ebay turbo setup anyway?

[cihanvtec]

thanks for the advice and the figures dougie. and yes i was after an ebay turbo setup, but after alot of thinking, i decided that i like my hondas na.......
nd plus a white eg with what im pretty sure was a b16 stole my heart.. best crossover ever!!!! XD

[TheSaint]

sedan love

check out my thread man =)

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?127680-TheSaint-s-Civic-Ferio

EG8 D15b7/D16a6 Cam/D16z6 IM
rocks hard for how much i spent

but no where near as good as a B =p

[phatty]

b18c2 for sure. Just save up a little bit more as i've been in an eg with a b18 in it.. And trust me the sound of the vtec crossover would be enough for your ears, and how quick it is in an eg shell. I never expected how loud the crossover was from outside and inside as my friend was driving. This was literally the sound. *mmmBARPP* People may emphasise on that sound but thats exactly what it sounded like in my ears. Also the pull is great (Y).

[DC2-PWR]

ive done abit of research on the b16 gearbox going on a b18 engine.. so the shorter ratios allow the car to sprint a little quicker?? i read somewhere that even earlier model type rs had a gear ratio of something like 4.4.. 98+ model type rs adopted the 4.7.. so the pre 98 itr ratios were closer to the b16?? very interesting if its true..

so im pretty convinced on going with the b16 gearbox, just need to find an engine to go with it. can this be done with 4k?? i dont want to be wasting an everyones time if 4k isnt enough.. ill start a new thread when i get more cash otherwise XD haha

Your probably talking about the Japspec B16A gearbox ratios, which are worth over 1.5K
S1/J1 JDM B16A X-Si
1. 3.230
2. 2.105
3. 1.458
4. 1.107
5. 0.848
REVERSE. 3.000
FD 4.400

They have shorter ratios because of the lack of torque the JDM B16A has. But if you compare both of the gearboxs with all the numbers, ITR gearbox overall has shorter gear ratios. Mainly because of the 1st - 4th - 5th gears are lower than the JDM B16A gearbox.

You'll love the ITR box over the stock B18C2 gearbox. Gears are so much smoother to use, and with that LSD you can notice that grip and pull within every gear. And LSD only works when your going full on. They call it helical LSD. And car will rev so much quicker,
ITR gearbox:
1st gear 8000rev --> 2nd gear drops to 6800RPM, then accelerate to 8000rev --> 3rd gear drops to 6300RPM.. havn't tried other gears yet.

With the old C2 gearbox:
1st gear 8000rev --> 2nd gear drops to 5100RPM then accelerate to 8000RPM -->, then 3rd gear drops to 6000RPM.

Thats gearbox information.

Stick to B18C2. My close mate has a B18C2 EG. It's completly stock even with stock clutch. EK4(B16A with 155K) with I/H/E HD clutch & light rims can't even keep up after him when EG passes 3rd gear. Now the EG has got stage 4 clutch, I/H, were hoping for mid - high 13's.

Good luck, hope info helped.

[integragsi96]

b18c sir-g engine with a b16a gearbox sounds like the go for his budget!
more powerful than the b18c2 but less power than the b18c type t/b18c7
its the middle of them two roads and is a good engine.
well worth the thought!

oh and if your wanting a lsd down the track you can pick one up second hand for like $400-1000 depending on brand and quality!

[cihanvtec]

wow thanks for all the info DC2-POWER yeah i think it was the jap spec b16 i read about. thats a huge drop in revs in second gear for the c2.. does it drop out of vtec??

@phatty
cheers mate i just need to be reassured that im not going to be dissapointed with a b18c2 vtec crossover!! lol ive been in a b16a (loved the crossover) and been in a b18c7 ( loved that crossover aswell)
the b18c7 crossover felt a little less agressive than the b16 (most likely because of the smoother torque curve on the b18), but the vtec pull was just amazing. lovely raw power :p

oh and hopefully ill be putting it into an eg hatch.. kinda over my sedan. i want to swap it for a hatch, so if u guys know anyone interested in a sedan, hit me up.. :)

[DC2-PWR]

wow thanks for all the info DC2-POWER yeah i think it was the jap spec b16 i read about. thats a huge drop in revs in second gear for the c2.. does it drop out of vtec??

@phatty
cheers mate i just need to be reassured that im not going to be dissapointed with a b18c2 vtec crossover!! lol ive been in a b16a (loved the crossover) and been in a b18c7 ( loved that crossover aswell)
the b18c7 crossover felt a little less agressive than the b16 (most likely because of the smoother torque curve on the b18), but the vtec pull was just amazing. lovely raw power :p

oh and hopefully ill be putting it into an eg hatch.. kinda over my sedan. i want to swap it for a hatch, so if u guys know anyone interested in a sedan, hit me up.. :)

Not really droped out of vtec, just depends on what rpm you shift at, its all accuracy. But 1st crossover is 4500RPM, and 2nd gear is the tallest and it drops to 4900-5000RPM when shifting from 1st @ 8000K rev.

My mate had a EH Sedan (meatball). He had the B18C2 with B16A gearbox. His car was a complete weapon, I/H/E and a few other stuff, and DC5R's with Toda goodies couldn't keep up. It was a weird car but was very powerful. PM him, his username meatball. 89lude built his car.

Good luck though, brainstorm a good combination of parts (i.e. if you want more topend or mid range power etc), and you'll be ahead of your plans.

Good luck.

[Vvvtec]

You could save yourself all the trouble and buy a nice, ready-made example :P

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?146231-PRICE-DROP-1995-White-EG5-w-B18C2

[dougie_504]

IMO if you want torque just go B20, dw about B16 or B18. If you want crossover go B16.

[TheSaint]

u can get B20 blocks pretty cheap at most wreckers - buy a b16 and do the conversion with a B20 block lol

[DCZ 18C]

i was just bout to say consider the B20 route..but was beat to it...
they are a weapon if done right.. and can be a cheap engine upgrade

and as for the Eh with b18c2 repping just i/h/e beating DC5Rs with toda set up.... i find that kinda hard to believe.... :S

[DC2-PWR]

i was just bout to say consider the B20 route..but was beat to it...
they are a weapon if done right.. and can be a cheap engine upgrade

and as for the Eh with b18c2 repping just i/h/e beating DC5Rs with toda set up.... i find that kinda hard to believe.... :S

I think it was either keeping up or winning, something along those lines. And those boys don't lie usually, and they don't tell anyone like there topshit either. It was also advertised when he was selling the car too.

Yeah its hard to believe, but it was all proven they say.

B20 blocks are really good, another mate has EG B22B that HPR built with Jun headers and what not did 13.0seconds. Pretty impressive stuff from Ivan and Johhno.

Like dougie said about B20 is a good idea :)

[TheSaint]

and as for the Eh with b18c2 repping just i/h/e beating DC5Rs with toda set up.... i find that kinda hard to believe.... :S

iv seen this - even the sedan can do it if modded and stripped the right way

[DCZ 18C]

yer not saying your lieing jst saying abit hard to believe......

but back to the thread.....

think about the B20 route.... they are quick and have a pretty aggressive crossover too... so can be the best of both world... especially considering they are a pretty cheap alternative aswel

[MikeyG]

ummm a b20vtec will cost more then 4k champ its not just wack and start n drive... its a frank conversion.. if u got 4k i personally would get a b18c2 long block they aint that expensive and slap a b16a gearbox they are about 500-1k and you should be good to go

[amant02]

is this possible? arent the gear ratios different? would this enhance the cars performance and would it require a tune to accomodate the b16 gearbox on a b18 engine??

appreciate the help guys :)


Yes it works. Any b series motor will work with any b series gearbox. Only requirement is needs to be hydraulic clutch.

An example would be my em1, im running a b16a2 wit a b18c gearbox. LSD is good.

Some cosmetic changes are required too, depending on your setup. The senors where in a different spot for the b18c gearbox, i just removed the brackets for senors from my old gearbox and bolted it on the new one. its not rocket science.

[[Mo]]

hey guys, i cant decide whether i should go for a b16a2 or a b18c2.. was going to go for a jdm b18c, but it was pushing my budget.. ive got around 4k to play with. how much should i expect to pay for each of these swaps assuming the car they are going into is an efi eg..

is it worth doing any of these swaps? or is the b18cr only really worth it? what type of cars can i expect to keep up with, with a b16 or vtir b18. (just to make it clear, im not a street racer or anything, i just want to put it into context and get an idea compared to other cars)

im in the same boat, if i find a decent shell or maybe find a b16 in an eg that i can mod to make my own..

[EG8 CIVIC]

my mate had a b16a sir in his eg hatch. head to head with itr

for 4k do consider a b16

[EG8 CIVIC]

ummm a b20vtec will cost more then 4k champ its not just wack and start n drive... its a frank conversion.. if u got 4k i personally would get a b18c2 long block they aint that expensive and slap a b16a gearbox they are about 500-1k and you should be good to go

this idea i back up. and can be done with ur budget

[fatboyz39]

Save your penny and get at least B18C type R running gear.

[dougie_504]

B16A is becoming an underrated engine IMO. It's gutless down low only because you're supposed to rev it to 8000+ RPM. Very fun engine and I've decided to stick with mine.

[louie]

im thinking about getting a b16 in mine, whats the limit of rpm?

[blastnpast]

Just installed b16a in my ek and let me tell you a good tune + set up is all you need for a b series to take action

[dougie_504]

For my JDM B16A it's 8200 redline, 8400 fuel cut. My ECU revs out to 9000 (not recommended without upgraded valvetrain and probably cam shafts).

[louie]

mmmm should i got itr b18c? or a b16 hmm :$

[jeremydawg]

^depends what you like. i would go b18.

im pretty happy with my jdm b16. runs damn well atm, gonna do a compression test soon...

[louie]

hmmm its hard choice, but since its going in a eg itll probally be a b16 due to price and etc. (: what do you think? have all bolt on mods and some valvetrain stuff (:

[jeremydawg]

you could get your hands on a b18 for the same price as a b16 if you looked around. If your on your P's get a b16. more than 10% displ increase for a p plater is illegal

[louie]

yeah :D will use b16 for now til i get on my fulls.

[MWAKU]

10%? isn't it 15%? or is that only in NSW?

[babiiiiiiiiiii]

i would save my ass off for k20 man , wont be wasting anymore on b series , honestly i try both and i can tell they are heaps differnt

[MWAKU]

yeah? you would? good 4 u you can pull 10k+ for just an engine conversion. different people different needs, theres a difference in spending 5k for a conversion, to a surplus of 12k for one. they cannot be classified together, two completely different budgets/plans/goals. so simply, if he is thinking of a b16a, a b18c7 isnt far out of reach. a k20a conversion is. and half the time someone asks for a conversion, they really have 50$ in the bank account, and are just asking to add to their bank full of dreams.

[jeremydawg]

^lol... truez.

yeah im pretty sure its 10% here in qld. ill double check...

[Foxx]

yeah? you would? good 4 u you can pull 10k+ for just an engine conversion. different people different needs, theres a difference in spending 5k for a conversion, to a surplus of 12k for one. they cannot be classified together, two completely different budgets/plans/goals. so simply, if he is thinking of a b16a, a b18c7 isnt far out of reach. a k20a conversion is. and half the time someone asks for a conversion, they really have 50$ in the bank account, and are just asking to add to their bank full of dreams.


+1 mate - couldn't agree more - F*cking dreamers

[babiiiiiiiiiii]

i will just say to save the ass off for a k20 conversion instead, think of this way , if you do c7 or cr which is stand alone 6k without labour, so after everything done properly and this and that wil be added up to 8k , then once u have b18cr or 7 you will then start mod this and that , which you will eventually down the track wasting big and big money , so for personal thing i just save all the way to get k20/24 conver instead rather then spend heaps and heaps more after modify the b series, even you done everything internel and you still wont get 150kw atw on NA. and turst me man even you did all that and wasted all your money on bseries when you want to sell it you wont even get 10k for it , so why bother man .. is big time wasting money on b - series . but as i said beginning differnt people may have differnt need or different budget , most likely when they ask for conversion they normally have 50buks and just dreamer cant agree no more !

[u mad?]

10%? isn't it 15%? or is that only in NSW?
10% - QLD
15% - NSW

yeah? you would? good 4 u you can pull 10k+ for just an engine conversion. different people different needs, theres a difference in spending 5k for a conversion, to a surplus of 12k for one. they cannot be classified together, two completely different budgets/plans/goals. so simply, if he is thinking of a b16a, a b18c7 isnt far out of reach. a k20a conversion is. and half the time someone asks for a conversion, they really have 50$ in the bank account, and are just asking to add to their bank full of dreams.lmao

[Glocker]

Go B18C all the way, got the conversion for a pretty good price too off these forums. Remember no replacement for displacement if you are gonna keep it NA. If you wanna go B20, you could go to JDMstyletuning forums; there's an incomplete $1500 b16a that comes with a free EG lol and get a block from the wreckers.

As for a K20A build, 150kW ATW for $12k is pretty shit dollar-to-kw value, especially if you are putting it in an EG, and you lose power steering and a/c. A K20A build won't even see which way a B18C turbo went, which costs at most $7k. If you want K20A sell the EG and buy a DC5.