get more from my B18c2

[jarrod strange]

Hi all, ive recently purchased a 94' Vtir integra and i am after bang for your buck cheap mods.

Ive extended its intake and put a highflow pod (cheapy but good) for an obvious cold intake, but thats all ive done.

Vtec engages at about 5900 Rpm. In my experiences theres alot of b18s engageing at 4500? i dont want that but i do want it to engage at about 5000 rpm. i know theres a huge amount of HooHaa about changing the engagement time, but the bloke before me was abit of a cheap scape and obviously thrashed the poor car beyond its life perhaps altering its engagement by poor maintenance or something.. So basically should i just purchase maybe a cheap vtec controller? im not looking to buy an S300 hondata ECU and go get it dynod, thats later on if i keep it. but yeh i just want a slightly earlier engagement.
IDEAS??

Btw, im in newcastle area, anyone close is welcome to hit me up for a cruise :D

:D

[blk_shadow]

get a Buddyclub VTEC controller or VAFC. on my EK, VTEC was engaging at 5400RPM. and i felt that was the right timing.

[jarrod strange]

ahk. so cheapy is deffinately no good? i guess its to do with the controllers complexity and mapping over-ride values, and id say a dedicated company would most likely put more reasearch into the making of the controller or product. i'd mostly like a k20 swapped tegra or something, but as im only a second year apprentice drafter im not exactly uh... funds filled. I know theres a huge amount of talk about controllers and them being no use but i feel like 5900 is just too late. i want it to engage at about 5 or just after.

So buddy club or VAFC... BTW mate, your cars, amazing. checked out both hyperlinks, pieces of art they are.

[will13]

jarrod, im from newcastle too, i might have seen you around

with regards to vtec coming on at 4500, thats actually the secondary runners opening up the intake manifold that only the Vtirs have. I wouldn't be changing the vtec engagement point - honda made it what it is for a reason, you'l more than likely lose power by changing it, and probably use more fuel too.

[jarrod strange]

True. good point. we will have to go for a cruise sometime Will

[meatball]

jarrod, im from newcastle too, i might have seen you around

with regards to vtec coming on at 4500, thats actually the secondary runners opening up the intake manifold that only the Vtirs have. I wouldn't be changing the vtec engagement point - honda made it what it is for a reason, you'l more than likely lose power by changing it, and probably use more fuel too.

thats true, b18c2's have a secondary runner. vtec comes in at 4500rpm and 5900rpm.

[blk_shadow]

ahk. so cheapy is deffinately no good? i guess its to do with the controllers complexity and mapping over-ride values, and id say a dedicated company would most likely put more reasearch into the making of the controller or product. i'd mostly like a k20 swapped tegra or something, but as im only a second year apprentice drafter im not exactly uh... funds filled. I know theres a huge amount of talk about controllers and them being no use but i feel like 5900 is just too late. i want it to engage at about 5 or just after.

So buddy club or VAFC... BTW mate, your cars, amazing. checked out both hyperlinks, pieces of art they are.

thx for that :)

but yeah, I dont usually want to cut corners. When I first started modifying my EK, I was just started working part time at HardRock cafe. It took me 5 years to get into that stage on the photos from a bog stock :) but its worth it.

save some money to get decent I/H/E and then S300 Hondata, you wont regret it :)

[DC2-PWR]

dont waste your time/money with vafc2

vafc2 (300) + fitting (150) + tune (250) = 700 = hondata s300.

i got
injen cai ($400)
rmf kiddracing 4-1 headers ($500)
buddyclub spec 3 exhaust ($650)

those i/h/e are a good 15 to 20kw gain

but then, with these power definetly your clutch will start to wear,

good clutches are
heavy duty exedy ($470)
sports organic exedy (i got) ($460)
orc ($1300)
competition clutch ($1500)

but wait, its a good idea to get a lighter flywheel too
jdm itr flywheel
toda
exedy
all under $500

but then with these hd clutchs, you will definetly need harder engine mounts, lol.
hardrace
innovative
hasport

theres other small bits too like
spark plug leads
spark plugs
better pod filter
skunk2 IM,
obx IM
blox IM

better gearboxs help too, with there shorter gear ratios
itr gearbox 4.7fd LSD - this was the best mod i ever done.

then if you want to be hardcore
ITB;s
drag spec headers (you can't have a/c or p/s)
straight through exhaust
dog box
cam gears
goes on and on

the list is massive and it goes on and on and on, just search, and you'll find any info you need.

good luck,

[3iuuop]

yep nice info mate, ive got ebay cai with ebay N*power headers zettie exhaust, got my clutch rebuilt, filled my engine mounts with bog and sticky flex, gear box out of a vti with vti spark plugs, got a tune and made 4-6kw extra very happy with the power output, saving up for itb's and 100 shot of nos,

[blk_shadow]

ATS (Active Traction Service) clutch and flywheel combo is also great. Been using them on my current DC5R and my previous EP3R.
But not many in Australia have heard about them while they are huge in japan and America.

[EG5]

Try Skunk2 intake manifold , good cai set up , header and catback exhaust and dc2r gearbox
Lightened flywheel and a good clutch

[1590cc]

Would there be much improve if modifying IM to Skunk2 but leaving throttle body stock?

[EG5]

Would there be much improve if modifying IM to Skunk2 but leaving throttle body stock?

Yes even with stock Throttle body .
Better runners and plenum design compared to stock b18c vtir manifold.

[TODA AU]

Try Skunk2 intake manifold , good cai set up , header and catback exhaust and dc2r gearbox
Lightened flywheel and a good clutch
& ECU otherwise it all turns to shit & goes backwards - mainly becasue of the SK2 manifold.
What needs to be said is the change from a dual stage IM to single on it's own is a bad move, partiucularly without a tuning solution attached.
(Be that VAFC as a minimum or full ECU)

[jarrod strange]

well basically at the moment im in the frame of mind that i want a better version to use as my project. if anyone knows someone who might like a VTIR 94' with a RWC... send em my way. will probably swap with something that has a b18 in it, whether it be an EG or EK or dc2... preferably white yellow or black..

[will13]

Jarrod, I have a White EG5 with a B18C2 in it already, its for sale

[DC2-PWR]

& ECU otherwise it all turns to shit & goes backwards - mainly becasue of the SK2 manifold.
What needs to be said is the change from a dual stage IM to single on it's own is a bad move, partiucularly without a tuning solution attached.
(Be that VAFC as a minimum or full ECU)

How much KW gain from your experiance you get from a Skunk2 IM + Skunk2 TB + Injen CAI?

[jarrod strange]

dude, your Vtir. Kudos to it. looks amazing (Dc2 PWR)

[jarrod strange]

an will, i would but after prchasing my dc2 ive only got a limited amount of funds left dude

[TODA AU]

How much KW gain from your experiance you get from a Skunk2 IM + Skunk2 TB + Injen CAI?
On average you lose 10kw access the rev range from 2000rpm to 5000rpm.
Between 5k & 6k they're about even & from 6500rpm & up, the SK2 is about 5kw ahead.
It also adds a higher peak by rolling over later.
But that's with tuning. Without tuning, its pretty much significant losses everywhere till the last part of the rev range.
(Hence the previous comment about tuning)
When combined with compression, cams & tuning, the low end losses can be mitigated if not eliminated completly with better gains up top.
For best results, 65~66mm throttle is on the money (up to 2L)
Injen work well, but a dyno developed intake can better it.

[DC2-PWR]

On average you lose 10kw access the rev range from 2000rpm to 5000rpm.
Between 5k & 6k they're about even & from 6500rpm & up, the SK2 is about 5kw ahead.
It also adds a higher peak by rolling over later.
But that's with tuning. Without tuning, its pretty much significant losses everywhere till the last part of the rev range.
When combined with compression, cams & tuning, the low end losses can be mitigated.
With better gains up top.

So would you reccomend people to spend the $1500 - $1700(skunk2 im, tb, cai, tune) on the whole setup? Or would reccomend just stick with OEM Intake Manifold + CAI ? Is it really worth that money? Be honest.

I'm up for changing the IM, but I want to know if its worth every penny. Orelse I could spend it on something else, like a more aggressive clutch, or even a whole ITR head which is a good $1700 aswell.

[blk_shadow]

So would you reccomend people to spend the $1500 - $1700(skunk2 im, tb, cai, tune) on the whole setup? Or would reccomend just stick with OEM Intake Manifold + CAI ? Is it really worth that money? Be honest.

I'm up for changing the IM, but I want to know if its worth every penny. Orelse I could spend it on something else, like a more aggressive clutch, or even a whole ITR head which is a good $1700 aswell.

I would go for the whole ITR head and work from there.

[3iuuop]

I'm up for changing the IM, but I want to know if its worth every penny. Orelse I could spend it on something else, like a more aggressive clutch, or even a whole ITR head which is a good $1700 aswell.[/QUOTE]

you should save ur $1700 n buy some decent wheels

[TODA AU]

So would you reccomend people to spend the $1500 - $1700(skunk2 im, tb, cai, tune) on the whole setup? Or would reccomend just stick with OEM Intake Manifold + CAI ? Is it really worth that money? Be honest.
LOL, be honest, I have no emotional involvement with the subject, so the answer is obviously no.
I don't recommend these parts nor do I sell them.
I may well fit them & tune them, but hey I gotta eat too.
Anyway, from my experience, the OEM manifold with a bit of a tickle (so to speak) & a 65mm throttle is better than the SK2 IM + 70mm TB combo everywhere. (But then the SK2 IM is better with a 65mm than a 70mm too... Hmmm... LOL)
That's with or without cams. Downside is not every retard can do it & most are inclined not to becasue the owner won't pay for work he can't see it. Bling sells & lets all be honest, the SK2 manifold looks way better than the OEM C2 manifold. If you're serious about performance there is a better way but it's not a cinche, so on balance for the average punter,if you're never going to mod the OEM manifold (you'll never know) & you do add the SK2. As long as you also do cams, compression & tuning, the thing can/should be ahead everywhere. (I/H/E is assumed)
But generally not on a stock C2 engine. That's not rocket sceince.

As for Cold air inductions, most CAI's are a good thing considering it's off the shelf & generally they all work & work quite well (some better than others)
Of not, this is what generally saves the SK2 set-up on the C2 head rather than the manifold it'self.
That said, a custom intake developed on the dyno is better (but at what price?)

Re swapping the head,
Don't knock the ol C2 head, there's plenty of potential there.

[bennjamin]

I'm up for changing the IM, but I want to know if its worth every penny. Orelse I could spend it on something else, like a more aggressive clutch, or even a whole ITR head which is a good $1700 aswell.

you should save ur $1700 n buy some decent wheels[/QUOTE]


Or pay for rego or pay for insurance etc. Makes more sense than trying to squeeze blood from a stone B18c2 motor !
Smaller/lighter wheels or lightweight flywheel or perhaps even a DC2R gearbox will make more difference in useable power than any intake mani/throttle body.

[DC2-PWR]

LOL, be honest, I have no emotional involvement with the subject, so the answer is obviously no.
I don't recommend these parts nor do I sell them.
I may well fit them & tune them, but hey I gotta eat too.
Anyway, from my experience, the OEM manifold with a bit of a tickle (so to speak) & a 65mm throttle is better than the SK2 IM + 70mm TB combo everywhere. (But then the SK2 IM is better with a 65mm than a 70mm too... Hmmm... LOL)
That's with or without cams. Downside is not every retard can do it & most are inclined not to becasue the owner won't pay for work he can't see it. Bling sells & lets all be honest, the SK2 manifold looks way better than the OEM C2 manifold. If you're serious about performance there is a better way but it's not a cinche, so on balance for the average punter,if you're never going to mod the OEM manifold (you'll never know) & you do add the SK2. As long as you also do cams, compression & tuning, the thing can/should be ahead everywhere. (I/H/E is assumed)
But generally not on a stock C2 engine. That's not rocket sceince.

As for Cold air inductions, most CAI's are a good thing considering it's off the shelf & generally they all work & work quite well (some better than others)
Of not, this is what generally saves the SK2 set-up on the C2 head rather than the manifold it'self.
That said, a custom intake developed on the dyno is better (but at what price?)

Re swapping the head,
Don't knock the ol C2 head, there's plenty of potential there.

Thats the advice I always hunted for. I wasn't particulary looking for people to say "no" to SK2 IM's, I just knew it wasn't worth it, well not for $1700.

Thanks for the advice Adrianooooo

[DC2-PWR]

you should save ur $1700 n buy some decent wheels

Ummm thanks for the thought but lets keep this thread to subject.




Or pay for rego or pay for insurance etc. Makes more sense than trying to squeeze blood from a stone B18c2 motor !
Smaller/lighter wheels or lightweight flywheel or perhaps even a DC2R gearbox will make more difference in useable power than any intake mani/throttle body.

Yeah pay rego, or insurance, or go on a holiday haha.

To be honest, the DC2R gearbox acceleration/pull felt like my car with 4-1 and intake headers again. It was just like WOW where did that pull came from, and car kept on pulling with every gear range, it's a machiene of a gearbox.

[MM89]

To be honest, the DC2R gearbox acceleration/pull felt like my car with 4-1 and intake headers again. It was just like WOW where did that pull came from, and car kept on pulling with every gear range, it's a machiene of a gearbox.

Or even better, mfactory cross 3rd,4th and 5th

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r43aipttDhg

The 2nd link is unknown gear ratios and manufacturer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN4ssdtuRGM

[jarrod strange]

will, delete one of your inbox messages so i can send a new one aye lol. (ozhonda inbox not email)

[jarrod strange]

can someone tell will to take notice of my last post -.-

[TODA AU]

Wil, take notice! *wag of finger* LOL

Do you think that worked?

[GSi_PSi]

farout that mfactory gearset really sounds crazy... imagine inside the car :)

[Vvvtec]

Wil, take notice! *wag of finger* LOL

Do you think that worked?

LOL

Adrian your going to get a PM from me in a bit... I'd like your advice on some things :)

[jarrod strange]

Deffinately toda! -.- nah but seriously there isnt much someone can do to get a hold of someone on here :| haha, thanks for thinking of me anyway dude :P

[will13]

jarrod didnt i pm you my number? lol or maybe that was someone else. how did i fill an inbox space of 300 msgs lol

[integragsi96]

that mfactory gearset is amazing!
be screwed on a long stretch tho.

[DC2-PWR]

that mfactory gearset is amazing!
be screwed on a long stretch tho.

yeah haha

imagine you had that for a daily car, while everyones on 3rd you'll be like on your final gear near 8K rpm LOL.

its a good trackspec ratio gearbox but hell no you wouldn't want it for a daily or normal cruise car. for track/drag yes.

[MM89]

i've seen 200km/h @ 9,000rpm in 5th gear out of this particular gearset. It's the mfactory ots ratios 1.695, 1.384, 1 for 3rd, 4th and 5th gear respectively.

fairly low top speed, but at least you'll get there in half the time compared to a stock gearbox lol

[jarrod strange]

looking for a black or white eg6 or 5 or EK (white or black) that is stock as a rock and clean as a whistle...