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View Full Version : Getting true audiophile sound fidelity out of a car hi-fi (PART 1)



WarrenM
09-04-2011, 04:14 PM
WHAT IS AUDIOPHILE SOUND?

The usual definition of Audiophile sound is sound which has been reproduced to recreate the original performance as closely as possible. The aim of an audiophile system is to reproduce music with such accuracy that it is audibly indistinguishable from the original performance. Of course, even if price is no object, it is highly unlikely that you will ever hear such a perfect reproduction, in which it is impossible to tell whether you are hearing the players live or a recording of them reproduced.

The more you are willing to spend on a sound system the more compromises you can eliminate in it and the closer you can come to fidelity. But, of course, spending oodles of money is no guarantee of positive results, and judicious use of limited resources can give you better sound than spending vast amounts of money on the wrong things.

HOME HI-FI vs CAR HI-FI

A bit of background may be valuable. My home hi-fi sounds very good. It has been built up over many years, primarily from 2nd-hand components, to listen to high quality classical, jazz, folk and rock music. Over time it has cost many thousands of dollars, but sounds like it should have cost many times its actual cost. Additionally it meets a critical secondary criterion known as WAF (wife acceptance factor), which means that my wife does not threaten to divorce me every time she tries to squeeze past a pair of 8' high room-dominating speakers. It is far from perfect, but you would find few home systems which sound significantly more realistic, especially considering it is relatively unobtrusive. Sitting in a central position between the two front speakers (the "sweet spot"), you can listen to well-recorded music on a vinyl record or CD or a good FM radio station, hearing the position of each singer or instrumentalist not only in his/her position from left to right, but even getting a sense of a three-dimensional sound stage and where each instrument and singer is in their specific place on the stage. There is much more to it than that, but the result is that you can almost imagine yourself in the audience of the live performance!

Why bother telling you this? It is not to brag about my home system - when you walk into my home you are unlikely to even notice the sound system (if it is not playing) as it most certainly does not physically dominate the room - it is NOT imposing which is a significant part of its appeal - I am telling you this to point out how different a good home hi-fi is, compared to a supposedly "great" car hi-fi. Most "great" car hi-fi systems are great by virtue of how imposing they are - not by virtue of how true-to-life they are. They are devised (certainly not designed) to dominate your (and the neighbours') auditory environment often with no regard whatsoever for the essence of the music they are supposed to reproduce.

A typical home listening room might be 4 metres by 5 metres (6.4m diagonally) or larger. There are lots of things in the room which reflect sound, but the vast majority of the sound hits you directly from the speakers in front of you, with all frequencies reaching you at the same time. That's why a convincing stereo sound stage can be reproduced in front of you.

In stark contrast, a car is a very small compact unit, with lots of reflective surfaces, many of them closer to your ears than the speakers themselves. So sound reaches your ears from the sides, back, above, below and in front, in no particular order. Any frequency which happens to have the same wavelength as an internal dimension of the car, will be amplified by the reflections of that frequency over and over again resulting in many frequencies which sound unrealistically loud or soft compared to the rest of the music.

The sound from the speakers on your left (in a right hand drive) reach your ears long after the sound from the speakers on your right. The reflections from the left speaker may reach your right ear at almost exactly the same time as the original sound. All this destroys any sense of sound stage, or at best results in a soundstage which partially sits outside the left door!) High frequency notes are very directional and of small wavelength, so it would be possible to create a convincing stereo sound stage based on careful positioning of your tweeters (or full-range speakers), so that you are sitting halfway between the left and right speakers. Unfortunately, your car is not shaped in a way to make that possible, and anyway, it would mean you need a separate pair of speakers for each listener in the car!

MY HONDA SHOOK ME INTO ACTION

When I bought my 2nd-hand Accord Euro Luxury CU2 last month, I was confronted by a totally unexpected shock: The sound system sounded awful. This was unexpected for two reasons: Firstly I had traded a Mazda 6 Luxury Sports which had a Bose system which sounded OK enough that I never felt it necessary to replace it; Secondly, the Euro felt so luxurious that it seemed incomprehensible that Honda could do such a crappy job of the hi-fi. But they did even worse than I realised (more on that later).

Until my last car, I always upgraded my car sound system to get it to a minimal level of competence for replaying music. My last car's Bose system more-or-less met that minimal level. I never went further than that because you can't get real hi-fi in a car anyway, so why commit a lot of money to a hopeless enterprise.

At least that is how it used to be.

A REVOLUTION IN CAR HI-FI

One thing has changed which I would never have chanced upon, had I not been knocked out of my comfort zone by the unexpectedly crappy sound system Honda had dumped on me.

That thing is Digital Sound Processing (DSP). DSP does two essential things in a car:-

It adjusts the volume of every audible frequency in the car so that each note is at the correct volume.
It delays the electrical signal from reaching each speaker by a different amount of time, so the sound reaches your ears from all speakers at exactly the same time.


The result is that an amazingly convincing sound stage can be created. Suddenly, the biggest traditional problems with music in a car have been overcome.

Of course the issue of just how deep a bass note you can play in your car is still a problem, but some of that is overcome by the DSP as well. By equalising the response of your sub-woofer, it will extend the useful bass to the limit of the car's capability.

THE PROBLEM DOES NOT STOP THERE THOUGH

Back to my Honda Accord Euro Luxury CU2. The head unit in this car and most other cars these days, especially higher end models, is fully integrated with the dashboard and all its functions, including functions on the steering wheel. Which means that replacing the head unit with something better or different means losing all that integration.

But keeping the head unit and changing speakers is also a problem! The existing speakers are not very good (that is being incredibly generous). To cope with them, the inbuilt equalisation of the head unit has been set to compensate for hopeless high frequency responses, dips and spikes in response curves, midbass standing waves, etc. When you put in really good speakers, all of these compensations turn your new expensive smooth-response speaker into an ugly harsh hissy monster.

Thankfully, your DSP comes to the rescue again. There are DSPs manufactured by Alpine, Rockford Fosgate, and JBL (maybe others too), which compensate for the pre-equalisation set in the head unit, so that the playing field is set to normal before it does all its equalisation and time-alignment of the new speakers.

WHAT DO THESE DSPs COST?

More than I wanted to spend, but less than I was prepared to. The JBL unit retails for about $1400 in Australia, but can be found for below $1200 (OUCH!). It is possible to find it for less on US sites, which I did.

Which brings me to a significant issue. If you are going to spend considerable money on a DSP, it makes sense to spend considerable money on your speakers and amplifiers and other components of your car hi-fi systems. It is also worth making sure that the job is done properly. If you are feeling your way and installing your first car hi-fi, maybe you should bite the bullet and get a professional to install it for you, or at least with you.

And take advice from the professionals. If Fred from across the road says you should use U-Beaut Speaker Cable on all your speaker leads, I'd be sceptical. If a car hi-fi installer with several years' experience tells you that your corroded connection to the battery needs to be replaced with at least 8-gauge wire, believe him - he is not trying to scrape an extra $15 profit from you.


Next:
WHAT TO DO ABOUT NOISE



Regards
Warren

ouch
09-04-2011, 04:42 PM
nice write up, mate.

trism
10-04-2011, 08:55 PM
Its nice to see someone else come on here and bring some knowledge.

But its a lost cause.

Been there, tried it.

All that people on this forum are concerned about is being JDM, 24/7

Lukey
10-04-2011, 08:56 PM
All that people on this forum are concerned about is being JDM, 24/7

no stereo


save weight

trism
10-04-2011, 09:03 PM
jdm

y u no understand

arverson
10-04-2011, 09:23 PM
Its nice to see someone else come on here and bring some knowledge.

But its a lost cause.

Been there, tried it.

All that people on this forum are concerned about is being JDM, 24/7

aint that the truth!

thats just how it is. 99% of people dont really have a clue what pure sq means, let alone have the passion or dedication to chase it yet i hear the term 'im goin for sq' tossed around too easily.. oh well, good for them, ignorance is bliss..

car audio (specifically sq) is niche like that

WarrenM
10-04-2011, 10:01 PM
aint that the truth!

thats just how it is. 99% of people dont really have a clue what pure sq means, let alone have the passion or dedication to chase it yet i hear the term 'im goin for sq' tossed around too easily.. oh well, good for them, ignorance is bliss..

car audio (specifically sq) is niche like that

I'm comfortable with that. Some guy in two years' time will read my article and turn his car into a moving music-room.

trism
10-04-2011, 10:28 PM
averson, thats a damn nice list of gear youve got in your sig

I can only guess

Alpine source unit.

Esotar front stage

IDMAX sub

maybe some old school vrx amplifiers

audison RCAs

Stinger power supply

arverson
10-04-2011, 10:31 PM
of course every now & then someone can come along who shows a willingness to learn, understand and appreciate hi-fi or sq.. thats always refreshing.

but the amount of THOSE people is practically nothing compared to the majority who are the opposite.

think of it from a business point-of-view too.. imagine if you had to spend countless weeks/months (as im sure you know sq/hi-fi isnt something that can be learned overnight) on ONE customer teaching them about sound engineering, physics and whatnot, your turnover wouldnt be great. and like trism said, itd be a 'lost cause' anyway cus not many people are interested in that. there no right or wrong in that tho, thats just how it is.

heres a test: try to get your entire family and friends to become audiophiles. when you do, let me know how you did it :p

trism
10-04-2011, 10:39 PM
My best mate is doing a build in his WRX, alpine source, audison bitone processing, tru tech billet amps, boston g5, and crescendo 3 way front stage.

Me, ive got an RE audio XXX series 1 12" sub in storage, with original stinger dream series RCAs, stinger power wiring, and an alpine 9835

arverson
10-04-2011, 10:43 PM
trism, pm'd

shinji112
20-04-2011, 12:35 AM
thanks for the great write up warren. ill be getting my new car in August and first off the bat is an audio upgrade. hopefully ill be able to get some more tips from you =)

Zilli
20-04-2011, 11:04 AM
wow, a wonderful write up, thanks mate... ive often pondered completing the setup in my car... but realise the only way to do so is to improve sound deadening and add a bass driver... counter intuitive moves to the design of my car, so i leave as is... instead my latest passions, property, is biting, so now looking at building a HIFI setup for my living room

WarrenM
20-04-2011, 02:26 PM
thanks for the great write up warren. ill be getting my new car in August and first off the bat is an audio upgrade. hopefully ill be able to get some more tips from you =)

Any idea what you are getting?

Regards
Warren

redefine
20-04-2011, 03:10 PM
aint that the truth!

thats just how it is. 99% of people dont really have a clue what pure sq means, let alone have the passion or dedication to chase it yet i hear the term 'im goin for sq' tossed around too easily.. oh well, good for them, ignorance is bliss..

car audio (specifically sq) is niche like that

the other thing that with car audio people only care about installing brand name spaeakers, HU's and subs into their car, rather then looking at response, cutoffs and such to create a good sound.

tron07
20-04-2011, 03:17 PM
My best mate is doing a build in his WRX, alpine source, audison bitone processing, tru tech billet amps, boston g5, and crescendo 3 way front stage.

Me, ive got an RE audio XXX series 1 12" sub in storage, with original stinger dream series RCAs, stinger power wiring, and an alpine 9835

lol...Your friend got a wrong platform to begin with.... I have a Tru amp myself as well.

flipfire
20-04-2011, 03:20 PM
car hifi is a bit too expensive...ill just wear earphones lol

trism
20-04-2011, 03:51 PM
lol...Your friend got a wrong platform to begin with.... I have a Tru amp myself as well.

Wrong platform? How do you mean?

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

WarrenM
22-04-2011, 05:35 PM
of course every now & then someone can come along who shows a willingness to learn, understand and appreciate hi-fi or sq.. thats always refreshing.

but the amount of THOSE people is practically nothing compared to the majority who are the opposite.

Actually I put this together because most home audiophiles don't have the faintest idea about car hi-fi and are totally at 6s and 7s trying to work out what they are supposed to do in order to make their cars sound like music. So I'm preaching to the converted as far as trying to convince anyone of anything, but that is not the purpose of the exercise - it is to guide others like me who don't want to reinvent the car audiophile wheel.


Here's a test: try to get your entire family and friends to become audiophiles. when you do, let me know how you did it :p

That's not a test - that's a life sentence!

Cheers

tron07
29-04-2011, 10:07 AM
Wrong platform? How do you mean?

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

WRX are noisy, have poor sound dampening material. Owners tend to put canon or loud exhaust which defeats the purpose of SQ, even the stock WRX have bad NVH

trism
29-04-2011, 11:39 AM
Silly you for drawing conclusions then. The entire floor, from firewall to the back of the boot was covered with dynamat sound deadening on the metal to stop resonance, and then a layer of dyna liner to absorb road and Tyre noise. All doors have both the inner and outer skins deadened with dynamat.

The exhaust is a simple 3" system with a highflow muffler at the rear. No cannon on this wrx.

Ever been in a very high end luxury car were you can't hear anything once you're in the car? That's what this is like.

Sent from my custard cannon like Peter North.

NightKids
29-04-2011, 01:02 PM
tron got pwned?

trism
29-04-2011, 01:18 PM
Here is some pics of the start of the deadening process

http://www.formaudio.com/images/cars/98SubaruWRX/IMGP8990.JPG
http://www.formaudio.com/images/cars/98SubaruWRX/IMGP9000.JPG
http://www.formaudio.com/images/cars/98SubaruWRX/P1010788.JPG

this image will show you the lack of cannon
http://www.formaudio.com/images/cars/98SubaruWRX/wrx_7.jpg

here you can see the final locations of the midrange and tweeter
http://www.formaudio.com/images/cars/98SubaruWRX/P1000256.JPG

that were measured using a string line and protractor to fire at the dead centre of the car, at ear height.
http://www.formaudio.com/images/cars/98SubaruWRX/P1000251.JPG
http://www.formaudio.com/images/cars/98SubaruWRX/P1000241.JPG

This will result in near perfect stage height, width and depth, and will need very little time alignment.

tron07
29-04-2011, 02:08 PM
lol... you still dont get it, imagine the results if you do the same thing with to another Subaru, say Liberty...

p33r
29-04-2011, 03:04 PM
Awesome write up.

trism
29-04-2011, 03:11 PM
lol... you still dont get it, imagine the results if you do the same thing with to another Subaru, say Liberty...

Why don't I get it? They're all the same when you're stopped and the car is turned off. There's no point at all trying to home theatre results in any car while you're driving, not even in a million dollar luxury car.

I'm still not sure what point you're trying to make.....

Sent from my custard cannon like Peter North.

tron07
29-04-2011, 05:09 PM
Why don't I get it? They're all the same when you're stopped and the car is turned off.

the purpose to install a SQ system is to listen when the car is turn off?? thats smart of you.

trism
29-04-2011, 05:36 PM
It is when you compete in car audio SQ comps, which this car will be

:)

Go look up the Mobile Electronics Australia Sound Quality competition.

Sent from my custard cannon like Peter North.

WarrenM
02-06-2011, 08:02 AM
Adjusted and split, prior to expansion