Titanium Retainers. Do they really wear quicker?

[Vvvtec]

I've been doing some reading on building my head up. And I seem to keep coming across the notion that titanium retainers tend to wear quicker than reguler retainers.

Is this true? And is it a real issue?

[TODA AU]

I've been doing some reading on building my head up. And I seem to keep coming across the notion that titanium retainers tend to wear quicker than reguler retainers.

Is this true? And is it a real issue?

It is true & it is an issue on road engines that are expected to go past 100,000km
It's not an issue for race engines as they are pulled down regularly & freshened up.
In this case, valve springs, valve spring retainers, rings, bearings etc are all regarded as replacable wear items.
if you're going to use Ti retainers on a road car, be sure to use a set that locks into the top of the spring.
This will mitigate some of the risk, but not eliminate it.
If the car isn't going to see the circuit, save your money & skip using these parts.
If you are going to see the circuit, they're a bit of extra insurance against to loose nut between the steering wheel & the seat.

[Vvvtec]

It is true & it is an issue on road engines that are expected to go past 100,000km
It's not an issue for race engines as they are pulled down regularly & freshened up.
In this case, valve springs, valve spring retainers, rings, bearings etc are all regarded as replacable wear items.
if you're going to use Ti retainers on a road car, be sure to use a set that locks into the top of the spring.
This will mitigate some of the risk, but not eliminate it.
If the car isn't going to see the circuit, save your money & skip using these parts.
If you are going to see the circuit, they're a bit of extra insurance against to loose nut between the steering wheel & the seat.

Haha thanks champ, appreciated. Excellent advice as usual :thumbsup:

This car will only be a road car, spirited drives etc. So with a set of bigger cams, for example Spec B's, do you recommend new oem ITR retainers? Or are B18c2 retainers sufficient?

[vtecing]

Any internal upgrades to increase compression or rotational mass speed will wear componants faster than factory specs

[Vvvtec]

No doubt! I'm just interested if a titanium retainer will wear quicker than a non-titanium retianer in the same environment and under the same stresses.

[Kawasaki]

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=16428

[cbauto]

interesting.

[Vvvtec]

fuk i miss adrians posts

more knowledge in 1 post than 99% of ozhonda all together

[RenzokukenJ]

You will get there soon

[broken-wheel]

I run Ti's on my previous race car, not a honda thou, a pushrod engine. I never had issues with Ti and i was running crazy spring rates with a solid cam. Did they make a difference coming from steel retainers and locks? yes! the Ti retainers and locks gave me about 500rpm more, power was negligible and not that I cared but I could tell it was better.

As you know the valve and spring spin. If the spring is matched and can hold the valve at whatever RPM you're running then I seen no problem with the Ti retainers. After a season I pulled the motor apart and both the retainers and locks (was using 8 degree Comp Cams Ti retainers and locks) were like new. Barely any fretting on the underside of the retainer where it touches the spring (comp cams dual valve springs + spring damper). The springs were Comp Cams CCA-977-16 which have a spring rate of 441 lbs./in. with .612 lift, now the honda has 50 pounds on the seat and a max lift of .453 at which point the total pressure is at 150 pounds. Also the honda valve weight is noting compared to 1.92" valve! I would not hesitate to use Ti retainers and locks on a B series at all.

To be hones if you use a good brand Ti retainers and locks (Skunk is cheap chinese shit imho) my guess is 50.000 or more can be safely had before a teardown and check. That's 2 years of driving.

Keep in mind that you gain no power from using Ti retainers or locks. It just locates the valve better and helps control the spring better. If you say use a sodium filled valve which is say 10 grams lighter than stock, and use Ti retainers and locks which are say 3 grams lighter than stock then you can safely go from a 150pound spring to a 130 pound spring, this will not net you any more RPM but will make a few HP more due to less parasitic loss in the valve train.

The good thing with Ti locks and retainers is that if your valve sprigs are flogged out then the weight saving might just give them another 2-3 years of life but valve springs are cheap anyway.

Imho spend the money on coke a hookers.

[RenzokukenJ]

Oh ok